GUILTY IN - Shaylyn Ammerman, 14 mos, Spencer, 23 March 2016 #2

[verbonica]

I don't "get" men. The idea of guys watching *advertiser censored* with other guys is a bit weird for me, and the idea of watching *advertiser censored* with one's STEPFATHER is even creepier.

This stepfather is like 35 or 36-years-old... only a very few years older than those sons.

I hear ya', though.

 

[ILOKAL]

I agree that many young people drink, but not many are court-ordered into rehab for drugs and alcohol twice in two years. And Kyle isn't an uncle, aunt or cousin; according to Adam he was a "friend of a friend" so not close to the family at all. In the telephone interview Justin said he didn't even know Kyle's last name.

Adam said he's known Kyle for a little less than a year. Here's what Kyle's been doing during that time:

On Jan. 10, 2015, he entered a residential sober living program in Terre Haute, but was booted out a week later for reportedly drinking. “He has two weeks to think about his decision to drink and where his life is going,” program director David Mankin wrote. On April 14, Parker was back in jail to serve 50 days from his probation revocation.

In November, he was sentenced to serve 111 days in jail for violating his probation after a drunken incident in Ellettsville, and was released earlier this month. He has a court date in that case set for April 13 to review how he will repay the county for unpaid fees totaling $1,283, court records show.

http://www.reporter-times.com/it-s-...cle_84aeb2af-7ed6-547e-8786-21d63afe4b62.html

IMO that is a red flag. He even posted about the upcoming court date on his FB so Adam had to be aware of his problems with the law. And alcohol.

I would have no problem banning such a person from my home. At the very least I would ban them when my 14-month-old child was staying in the home. JMO.

Sure, we've all read that NOW. And yes, Adam may have known, but he may not have. In any event, what makes you think the grandma knew? I doubt if Adam DID know he would have told his mother. I have no reason to believe that Adam's mother would have been any more tolerant than most. As for being just a friend (of a friend) it's just fine to include them at the gathering I described. Many such regular gatherings DO include friends and acquaintances. I'm still looking for that "obvious" red flag.

 

[LisaB]

I agree that many young people drink, but not many are court-ordered into rehab for drugs and alcohol twice in two years. And Kyle isn't an uncle, aunt or cousin; according to Adam he was a "friend of a friend" so not close to the family at all. In the telephone interview Justin said he didn't even know Kyle's last name.

Adam said he's known Kyle for a little less than a year. Here's what Kyle's been doing during that time:

On Jan. 10, 2015, he entered a residential sober living program in Terre Haute, but was booted out a week later for reportedly drinking. “He has two weeks to think about his decision to drink and where his life is going,” program director David Mankin wrote. On April 14, Parker was back in jail to serve 50 days from his probation revocation.

In November, he was sentenced to serve 111 days in jail for violating his probation after a drunken incident in Ellettsville, and was released earlier this month. He has a court date in that case set for April 13 to review how he will repay the county for unpaid fees totaling $1,283, court records show.

http://www.reporter-times.com/it-s-...cle_84aeb2af-7ed6-547e-8786-21d63afe4b62.html

IMO that is a red flag. He even posted about the upcoming court date on his FB so Adam had to be aware of his problems with the law. And alcohol.

I would have no problem banning such a person from my home. At the very least I would ban them when my 14-month-old child was staying in the home. JMO.

I know I am coming across badly today, but when a friend of YOURS brings a friend of THEIRS to your home, do you request a photo ID and do a background check before you let them in? It would be prudent, but in practice, WHO DOES THIS? Did the grandmother, step-grandfather, and dad even KNOW about this guy having problems with alcohol and drugs? If I knew a visitor to my home was court-ordered NOT to consume alcohol, I would not let them drink in my home. But if I did NOT know...

 

[LisaB]

I may not be typical, but no, I would not be okay with Uncle Louie or Aunt Mary picking up any of my babies or toddlers while intoxicated or after having a few. I don't like alcohol around my kids, period. Red flags for pedophilia? No. Red flags for lack of sense? Yes. Because people who have had a few are not so great at not dropping things. Like babies.

But I also come from a family that really doesn't partake of alcohol at all, so it wouldn't be an issue in the first place.

I was pretty shocked when my daughter was invited to a birthday party for a pre-school classmate turning 3, and they served alcohol to the adults. I mean, really. It was a party for a CHILD.

 

[tlcya]

:stop:

Nothing has been reported or stated that would indicate that *advertiser censored* was being watched in the residence the night Shaylyn went missing.

Period. This is another one of those situations where facts get confused and twisted with others and a dash of speculation is thrown in to further muddy the waters.

Kyle Parker is reported to have enjoyed watching *advertiser censored* featuring spanking themes.

Adam Ammerman and Kyle Parker watched TV/movie in Adam's room the evening of the 22nd into the morning of the 23rd.

The continued speculation that all or some of the men in the home that evening were crammed into Adam Ammerman's bedroom watching *advertiser censored* together needs to stop as it only creates confusion.

 

[Inthedetails]

I'm honestly not sure just what red flag that should have raised? Many young people drink, do they not? At age 22, is that unusual? Did Uncle Louie, Aunt Mary, and Cousin Irving ever pick up and hold your baby at a gathering after having had a few? Did you ever allow them around your baby again, or did that raise red flags that told you they were dangerous people?

It sure gives me bad vibes....but maybe that's because I have memories of being pulled onto a drunk uncle's lap. I smell the alcohol on his breath to this day and hear his way-too-friendly, too-loud demeanor, me feeling trapped, too "polite" to listen to my own voice inside telling me to get out of there, and I remember the awkward chuckle of other adults (likely also drunk or tipsy) who either were hoping nothing was wrong with the situation or who were oblivious.

I fully understand that others do not see the danger....good for you. How lucky.

I'm done with this particular topic. It's just one person posting contradictions to another, around and around. I'm dizzy and getting off this ride.

The perp is in jail, the child is laid to rest today. The end.

This case got to me.

 

[birdsmomma]

I'm sorry if I've missed it but has AA's age ever been stated? I know KP is 22 and to me, AA looks at least 30ish but maybe he's around the same age?? I just wonder how they met, I know that it was stated that KP was a "friend of a friend" but the age gap (or what the age gap appears to be) seems odd that they would start hanging out.

 

[ILOKAL]

I may not be typical, but no, I would not be okay with Uncle Louie or Aunt Mary picking up any of my babies or toddlers while intoxicated or after having a few. I don't like alcohol around my kids, period. Red flags for pedophilia? No. Red flags for lack of sense? Yes. Because people who have had a few are not so great at not dropping things. Like babies.

But I also come from a family that really doesn't partake of alcohol at all, so it wouldn't be an issue in the first place.

No, no, it seems as though you ARE typical. In my scenario survey, three have responded and all three are teatotlers with teatotler family and friends. Who knew? I should have presented this survey to a different venue!��

 

[tlcya]

SOP

Standard Operating Procedure

 

[ILOKAL]

It sure gives me bad vibes....but maybe that's because I have memories of being pulled onto a drunk uncle's lap. I smell the alcohol on his breath to this day and hear his way-too-friendly, too-loud demeanor, me feeling trapped, too "polite" to listen to my own voice inside telling me to get out of there, and I remember the awkward chuckle of other adults (likely also drunk or tipsy) who either were hoping nothing was wrong with the situation or who were oblivious.

I fully understand that others do not see the danger....good for you. How lucky.

I'm done with this particular topic. It's just one person posting contradictions to another, around and around. I'm dizzy and getting off this ride.

The perp is in jail, the child is laid to rest today. The end.

This case got to me.

Oh, not good for me. I didn't include myself in the scenario.

This case got to me also.

 

[pepelepolecat]

No, no, it seems as though you ARE typical. In my scenario survey, three have responded and all three are teatotlers with teatotler family and friends. Who knew? I should have presented this survey to a different venue!��

Haha, but we're not necessarily a representative sample since we don't actually drink. People who drink socially probably wouldn't answer at all similarly! Someone else answered that there were drinks at a 3 yo's birthday party, so I'll bet kids were being picked up there.

 

[ILOKAL]

Haha, but we're not necessarily a representative sample since we don't actually drink. People who drink socially probably wouldn't answer at all similarly! Someone else answered that there were drinks at a 3 yo's birthday party, so I'll bet kids were being picked up there.

Actually, the response about the 3-yo's b'day party was the 4th response. Some might consider people who "only" drink socially as drunks also, just as many "social" drinkers ONLY consume beer or wine! 🤔

 

[MsMarple]

No, no, it seems as though you ARE typical. In my scenario survey, three have responded and all three are teatotlers with teatotler family and friends. Who knew? I should have presented this survey to a different venue!��

To be clear, you're not counting me as a responder then since I'm not a teetotaler nor are most of my family. :toastred:

 

[ILOKAL]

I was pretty shocked when my daughter was invited to a birthday party for a pre-school classmate turning 3, and they served alcohol to the adults. I mean, really. It was a party for a CHILD.

Did any of the parents take their child and leave? Did any of the parents drink at the party? In your scenario, the "fault" (if any) would not just lie with the party giver, but also with the party goers who, well, partied! IMO

 

[ILOKAL]

To be clear, you're not counting me as a responder then since I'm not a teetotaler nor are most of my family. :toastred:

No, Ms.Marple, I didn't count you

 

[AmyPond]

No, no, it seems as though you ARE typical. In my scenario survey, three have responded and all three are teatotlers with teatotler family and friends. Who knew? I should have presented this survey to a different venue!😳

I responded. Plenty of people in my family drink. But most of them do not get drunk. And if they did, they certainly wouldn't be holding my child. But I am definitely a more cautious/worrier type parent so that's just the way I do things. I also wouldn't want someone I didn't really know holding my child either. When my son was a month old, my BIL came into town for a visit. He brought a friend with him. The friend never held my son (nor did he even ask or attempt to.) He was never left alone with him either.

 

[Hippie Heart]

Chiming in with my two cents. I have had parties for my kids were there were a ton of adults present with their children, and we threw a little rum in our ice cream punch.. I don't think that's terribly weird. However, no one was tipsy or drunk and I never felt uncomfortable.

At other times, I have had friends in my house who might've had a couple too many, but they have never EVER started interacting with my children or trying to hold them, at any age. That would be very weird and uncomfortable to me.

Also in the scenario given about an aunt or uncle or cousin holding your child after having too many, that is very very different than a STRANGER holding your child while drunk.

Of course depending upon the situation the family members doing that could raise red flags, but then they are family so you would know them.

On the other hand, he.was.a.stranger. Why do we keep going round and round about this? It's weird! It's been proven! He's in jail for raping and murdering an infant!

And I'd really like to know who else was in the house when the grandmother came home and found him rocking Shaylyn. If he was there alone, obviously that's completely bizarre. If her sons were there, or her husband, why are they letting this man rock the baby? Again, an example of very bad judgment.


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[ILOKAL]

I responded. Plenty of people in my family drink. But most of them do not get drunk. And if they did, they certainly wouldn't be holding my child. But I am definitely a more cautious/worrier type parent so that's just the way I do things. I also wouldn't want someone I didn't really know holding my child either. When my son was a month old, my BIL came into town for a visit. He brought a friend with him. The friend never held my son (nor did he even ask or attempt to.) He was never left alone with him either.

Well then, we could be twins .

Having said that (though), that's not the scenario (at all) that I outlined.

As far as "drunk" goes, I might consider someone drunk after two beers or a glass of wine, where someone else would not.

 

[*JMO*]

I think the search of any computers and phones will be part of the investigation. That may shed more light on the degree of involvement *advertiser censored* may have played and the depth of possible involvement with other children.

 

[ILOKAL]

Chiming in with my two cents. I have had parties for my kids were there were a ton of adults present with their children, and we threw a little rum in our ice cream punch.. I don't think that's terribly weird. However, no one was tipsy or drunk and I never felt uncomfortable.

At other times, I have had friends in my house who might've had a couple too many, but they have never EVER started interacting with my children or trying to hold them, at any age. That would be very weird and uncomfortable to me.

Also in the scenario given about an aunt or uncle or cousin holding your child after having too many, that is very very different than a STRANGER holding your child while drunk.

Of course depending upon the situation the family members doing that could raise red flags, but then they are family so you would know them.

On the other hand, he.was.a.stranger. Why do we keep going round and round about this? It's weird! It's been proven! He's in jail for raping and murdering an infant!

And I'd really like to know who else was in the house when the grandmother came home and found him rocking Shaylyn. If he was there alone, obviously that's completely bizarre. If her sons were there, or her husband, why are they letting this man rock the baby? Again, an example of very bad judgment.


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This discussion doesn't question if KP did what he is charged with, it's about what, if any, red flags existed that the grandma and father knew of or should have known of. That's THIS discussion.