GUILTY IN - Shaylyn Ammerman, 14 mos, Spencer, 23 March 2016 #2

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

I don't know if anyone has gone there, but the the reason the crib bashing is so horrifying to me is because it feels like an act of rage against Shaylyn herself. That's what I am feeling . jmo.

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Anger is a very common part of grief.

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[MinnesotaMary]

I have a couple comments about pedophiles:

1.) Parker's pal said Parker liked '12 y old girls' --------- I bet that if one is a pedophile, he/she'd be know enough & be ashamed to tell 'regular people' the truth of what they felt about infants/kids/babies. So, see, if a pedophile openly says to a pal, 'I like a 12 y olds', we can add 2+2 and stretch that that person may well actually/in reality want/prefer/feel attraction to/like babies/1-2 y olds. IMO

2.) I know I've read that pedophiles tend to think that they're NOT doing anything at all wrong!! I believe what I read was along the lines that in the pedophile's head, the tot/infant/child/baby IS ENJOYING, reciprocally 'taking pleasure in', what is happening, so, ipso facto (in pedophile's brain) NOTHING AT ALL IS WRONG - au contrare - all is right & good ! !! I recall reading this back when the Woody Allen - Mia Farrow's adopted little girl pedophilia happened - I remember Time mag. had a cover article about pedophilia mentality/thinking.

 

[Irisha]

To be completely fair, we don't know for sure they were watching *advertiser censored*, right?

But let's assume they were. No matter what any of us think about *advertiser censored*, I think we can all agree that the purpose of *advertiser censored* is to sexually arouse the viewer. Whisky lowers inhibitions. So that was the atmosphere in that house: *advertiser censored*, whisky, sleeping baby with adults either sleeping or with sleepy eyes.

JMOpinion

I need to clarify myself. I have no idea if they were watching *advertiser censored* in the bedroom. I may have missed that. But the family was apparently aware of where his sexual interest were. The house was not "baby safe" from where she slept to the front door not working, people comming and going, only 1 exit, to ignoring the huge RED FLAGS!!:moo:

 

[pepelepolecat]

Well, what could they do with the crib, LE didn't seem to be interested in getting it, and the family didn't need it anymore. Give it away, saying here's a crib, and by the way, the last child sleeping in it had been murdered? Perhaps the best thing to do was to destroy it, I doubt any parent would want their child sleeping in that crib.

Thinking out loud, here, but smashing it was an expression of rage -- I think that's undeniable. I don't think they were expressing it at Shaylyn, but they also couldn't exactly express it towards the true object of their rage (the murderer). And in a roundabout way, that crib represented safety and security for their baby. Except it didn't.

I really recoil almost from the crib destruction because it feels so personal, but this isn't my personal grief or rage. They're maybe emoting the only way they know how.

 

[ninij9]

That's exactly how it made me feel. When I was 4 months pregnant with my first, my brother in law and 2 good friends were in a car accident. My brother in law and one friend died in the crash. Wrapped the car around a tree. My husband, in the middle of the night while I was sleeping, took a chainsaw and cut the tree down.

That's what this felt like to me, except the anger was directed at Shaylyn.


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Sorry about your brother in law. But yes, this exactly. It's really bothering me.

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[Oblio]

I have a couple comments about pedophiles:

1.) Parker's pal said Parker liked '12 y old girls' --------- I bet that if one is a pedophile, he/she'd be know enough & be ashamed to tell 'regular people' the truth of what they felt about infants/kids/babies. So, see, if a pedophile openly says to a pal, 'I like a 12 y olds', we can add 2+2 and stretch that that person may well actually/in reality want/prefer/feel attraction to/like babies/1-2 y olds. IMO

2.) I know I've read that pedophiles tend to think that they're NOT doing anything at all wrong!! I believe what I read was along the lines that in the pedophile's head, the tot/infant/child/baby IS ENJOYING, reciprocally 'taking pleasure in', what is happening, so, ipso facto (in pedophile's brain) NOTHING AT ALL IS WRONG - au contrare - all is right & good ! !! I recall reading this back when the Woody Allen - Mia Farrow's adopted little girl pedophilia happened - I remember Time mag. had a cover article about pedophilia mentality/thinking.

This.

i remember when they featured a pedophile on this american life, he was in his teens and at that point he'd only ever watched *advertiser censored*. Until one day, he realized how terrified the child was, and committed himself to never watching again. He even started a support group. The worse part about pedophilia is that there is no mental health available to support those who know they have a problem and don't want to act on their urges for moral reasons.

 

[AmyPond]

You're right...I was trying to say that I think their disabilities are in mental health/lower IQ areas rather than physical, while still being polite about it. I just get the feeling they're not very smart, as in not capable of it, rather than simply uneducated. And I think that contributed to this incident because it actually didn't occur to them there could be a problem.

I'm going to have to disagree. I wouldn't automatically think they people have some sort of mental health issues. Not a legitimate one, anyway. <modsnip>

Many times on this forum I have seen people who assume criminals/POI have a delay or disability. "Oh they must have a mental delay or disability" because they are "slow" or whatever. As someone with a son with delays, I find it highly offensive.

In Sweden there there is an expression, maskrosbarn (dandelion children), for those kids that grow up with "half-assing" parents or with abuse, parents using drugs and similar experiences. They grow up to become strong adults, the same way a dandelion, although soft and vulnerable, and grow thru the asphalt.

They end up as strong adults.

Or dead.
Or they repeat their parents' mistakes.

 

[FrostOwl]

<snip>They end up as strong adults.

Or dead.
Or they repeat their parents' mistakes.

Maskrosbarn are only those children who grow up to be strong, not those who follow in their parents' footsteps.

As for the number of children killed by their parents, the numbers for Sweden and the U.S. and Mexico are as below:

• 0,4&#8211;0,6/100 000 barn och år i Sverige. Children and year in Sweden
• USA och Mexiko har högst förekomst av filicid, 2,2/100 000 barn. USA and Mexico have the most cases of filicide (child killed by parent)

The numbers are from a scientific article published by the Karolinska Institute, a university hospital here in Sweden: http://ki.se/forskning/vem-dodar-sitt-eget-barn

I have had difficulties finding how many cases there are of murdered children in Sweden, the most recent number I've seen is an average of about 7 cases of children under the age of 15 murdered each year here in Sweden, in an article in the Swedish Journal of Medicine from 2006, and I don't think there is any major change in that number.

 

[MsMarple]

Here's the reference to the neighbors hearing loud noises from the house around 3 am:

Investigators say they were told there was a loud party at Ammerman's home Tuesday night. Shaylyn's dad denies that, but police are interviewing several witnesses and persons of interest and searching a few homes and cars.

http://www.wthr.com/story/31550000/police-in-spencer-looking-for-missing-toddler

And while I'm here:

I disagree about not being able to foresee a monster in their midst.

Grandma once walked in to find Kyle drunk in her home, holding her little granddaughter in his lap. We get that info from Adam, so the family knew about the incident. If I found a drunk guy holding my baby daughter/granddaughter/niece on his lap, I wouldn't be leaving her alone with him around, ever, period - let alone leaving her in her crib with him in the house drinking after I went to bed.

The only person to blame for the torture and murder of that child is Kyle Parker, of course, but the family was not blind to his ways, imo.

JMOpinion.

ITA! Speaking only for myself, if I walked into my living room and found a drunken 22-year-old rocking my grandchild on his lap that would be the last time the young man ever crossed my threshold. At the very least he would be banned from the house during the weeks my grandkid was there.

It doesn't take a college degree to understand the concept of protecting an innocent baby who can't protect herself. For whatever reason the grandmother and father decided it was okay for Kyle to do that. There was no way they could predict that Kyle was a sexual predator but they had witnessed at least one act that should have been a red flag. I'd be terrified that a drunk would drop my baby - reason enough to keep him the hell away from her. JMO.

 

[kaen]

The hardest part about this death is that there is so much contradictory information (family and press) that muddies the water. Additionally, some of the stories are updated again and again so that it looks like there is new information.

The party reference (http://www.wthr.com/story/31550000/p...issing-toddler) is from last Friday and had been updated from Wednesday. The most comprehensive documents are from the court documents. Those are damning enough of AA and the judgment of adults in the house, given that AA reported seeing something that looked like it may be a foot dangling.

Other than the official documents this family has been all over the map, who knows what is real or not. Not trying to call anyone out but at this point the only reliable sources are the legal ones that have been lodged with the courts.

I believe it is important to focus on making sure the murderer never sees the light of day. If charges are filed against the paternal family, then so be it.

 

[pepelepolecat]

As much as I find the actions of the family incomprehensible with regards to letting this man around their baby, I do want to point out again that they weren't the only ones who trusted him. KP had pictures of himself with at least one other child on his FB page (and, I believe, there were actually a couple children in some of his pictures, but I can't really recall for sure) -- and he was supposed to pick up another child that very morning. He clearly had found a way to make parents trust him. And possibly parents savvier or more suspecting than the Ammermans.

 

[tlcya]

:stop:

Enough with the IQ debate. There is nothing linkable that defines any family member's IQ - high or low. So this circular debate ends here. At this point everyone has pretty clearly expressed their opinion on the matter so move on.

 

[tiffay01]

Has anyone seen what the current custody agreement was? Did dad have her one week on one week off, or was it something different do we know?

 

[mrsobrien]

Here's the reference to the neighbors hearing loud noises from the house around 3 am:

Investigators say they were told there was a loud party at Ammerman's home Tuesday night. Shaylyn's dad denies that, but police are interviewing several witnesses and persons of interest and searching a few homes and cars.

http://www.wthr.com/story/31550000/police-in-spencer-looking-for-missing-toddler

And while I'm here:



ITA! Speaking only for myself, if I walked into my living room and found a drunken 22-year-old rocking my grandchild on his lap that would be the last time the young man ever crossed my threshold. At the very least he would be banned from the house during the weeks my grandkid was there.

It doesn't take a college degree to understand the concept of protecting an innocent baby who can't protect herself. For whatever reason the grandmother and father decided it was okay for Kyle to do that. There was no way they could predict that Kyle was a sexual predator but they had witnessed at least one act that should have been a red flag. I'd be terrified that a drunk would drop my baby - reason enough to keep him the hell away from her. JMO.

I do not dispute that a party was heard. What I'd like confirmation of is that a fight was heard around 3 am.

 

[Inthedetails]

I do not dispute that a party was heard. What I'd like confirmation of is that a fight was heard around 3 am.

Was it a party? Was it a fight? Was it family members fussing with the satellite? Was it Adam shouting good-bye to Kyle who left the house carrying something?

??

 

[tiffay01]

I am so very confused in this one article it says he took Shaylyn between 3 & 4, and then it goes on and says the family in Gosport at 3:40. So obviously the times are off. I really wish we had an idea of the time line and it be an accurate one.

http://www.spencereveningworld.com/...arged_With_Murder_Rape_In_Connection_Wit.html

 

[Ontario Mom]

This.

i remember when they featured a pedophile on this american life, he was in his teens and at that point he'd only ever watched *advertiser censored*. Until one day, he realized how terrified the child was, and committed himself to never watching again. He even started a support group. The worse part about pedophilia is that there is no mental health available to support those who know they have a problem and don't want to act on their urges for moral reasons.

I would have to disagree on that. The worst part is that they rape babies and children. While it should be considered commendable for those who have these deviant desires to wish to not act on them, lets not forget who the real victims of pedophiles are.

 

[Inthedetails]

I am so very confused in this one article it says he took Shaylyn between 3 & 4, and then it goes on and says the family in Gosport at 3:40. So obviously the times are off. I really wish we had an idea of the time line and it be an accurate one.

http://www.spencereveningworld.com/...arged_With_Murder_Rape_In_Connection_Wit.html

The timeline is a mess!! And yet...the body was discovered and the perp is behind bars. Somehow, this worked, and it worked rather quickly.

WTG, LE!

 

[Midge Montana]

I do not dispute that a party was heard. What I'd like confirmation of is that a fight was heard around 3 am.

In one of the first videos I saw, before they found her, there were two snippets of neighbors being interviewed. Both were blonde ladies I think. They were saying something along the lines of things being fishy, etc. One of the ladies spoke about hearing an argument that night or early morning. I don't have a link to the clip but it was on the first day. HTH.

 

[pepelepolecat]

I do not dispute that a party was heard. What I'd like confirmation of is that a fight was heard around 3 am.

This is also something I'd like to know more about. Was it Adam yelling to Kyle? Or was it something else?