DexterMorgan
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Lol. I think I should now stay out the *advertiser censored* discussion too. Lol.
Thanks for the reminder. Lol
GUILTY IN - Shaylyn Ammerman, 14 mos, Spencer, 23 March 2016 #2
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Lol. I think I should now stay out the *advertiser censored* discussion too. Lol.
Thanks for the reminder. Lol
courtneyb
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While funny, I think that's a bit of an exaggeration of what most where saying. But, I'm gonna need to check on those kittens, just the same. [emoji57]
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AmyPond
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There has been no confirmation on what type of *advertiser censored* he likes except that he likes *advertiser censored* that involves "spanking." Which really isn't all that uncommon and isn't what most people would call deviant. I think people are reaching a bit. Not that I'd be surprised to hear about child *advertiser censored* later on. But as of yet, we know nothing along those lines. I suspect LE is searching his computer/phone and if they find anything illegal, we'll hear about it.
Hippie Heart
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This is from the interview with AA and JA. Sorry I can't figure out how to bold on my phone.
"I fell asleep once cause I was a little hung over and I was tired and I had just a little much over my limit and I went to bed, passed out. I got woken up because my step dad ended up screwing up our TV package on DISH and I had to fix that, that was at 1, 2 o'clock in the morning," Adam said.
Adam said at that point, Parker was still awake and was drinking by himself."
*so AA had already "passed out" once. When he awoke, his friend was drinking by himself, in his room. I'm not clear if the step-dad was still in the room at that point, but I think it's common courtesy to leave when your host passes out asleep in front of you. If they don't initiate leaving, most people, especially with a baby asleep in the next room would say hey man, I'm passing out for the night. Let's catch up soon. Then walk them to the door or direct them to the door. You don't just go back to sleep.
It sounds like stepdad also knew KP was just hanging around while AA was passed out because he was messing with the cable which is what woke AA up the first time.
Yet when AA later wakes up the second time at 3-4 am when he hears the door shut, there is no mention of stepdad still in his room. I imagine stepdad would've already left the room and gone to bed himself (if he didn't then there was no need for AA to question where Kyle was going because his stepdad would've told him if he was in the room) which means stepdad also saw that Kyle was up and drinking and AA was asleep.
So neither adult said time to wrap it up, catch ya later. Nope, they just passed out in their respective rooms/areas and let this man, the one they refer to as an "acquaintance" hang out, chillin with some whiskey, and the baby in the living room, no big deal.
Those are the facts, *advertiser censored* or not, drunk baby rocking or not. Red flag. RED FLAG! That is not responsible behavior, period. If they had said peace out KP, see you LATER dude, this little girl would still be here. They will unfortunately have to live with that guilt forever.*
Kyle was in my room sitting in the chair, drinking and talking to people on his phone, I guess, cause I heard the tick, tick, tick texting. And, at roughly, 3, 4 o'clock in the morning, I heard the front door open and I look out my window and Kyles walking down the yard to his car. I open my window, I yell out to him, Kyle, where are you going? He never answered me back. He just got in his car and took off," Adam said.
Adam said he did not see Shaylyn with Parker.
No. I didnt see Shaylyn at all. Then of course, I was sleepy, I had sleepy eyes, I had alcohol in me and my vision was all messed up," he said."
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"I fell asleep once cause I was a little hung over and I was tired and I had just a little much over my limit and I went to bed, passed out. I got woken up because my step dad ended up screwing up our TV package on DISH and I had to fix that, that was at 1, 2 o'clock in the morning," Adam said.
Adam said at that point, Parker was still awake and was drinking by himself."
*so AA had already "passed out" once. When he awoke, his friend was drinking by himself, in his room. I'm not clear if the step-dad was still in the room at that point, but I think it's common courtesy to leave when your host passes out asleep in front of you. If they don't initiate leaving, most people, especially with a baby asleep in the next room would say hey man, I'm passing out for the night. Let's catch up soon. Then walk them to the door or direct them to the door. You don't just go back to sleep.
It sounds like stepdad also knew KP was just hanging around while AA was passed out because he was messing with the cable which is what woke AA up the first time.
Yet when AA later wakes up the second time at 3-4 am when he hears the door shut, there is no mention of stepdad still in his room. I imagine stepdad would've already left the room and gone to bed himself (if he didn't then there was no need for AA to question where Kyle was going because his stepdad would've told him if he was in the room) which means stepdad also saw that Kyle was up and drinking and AA was asleep.
So neither adult said time to wrap it up, catch ya later. Nope, they just passed out in their respective rooms/areas and let this man, the one they refer to as an "acquaintance" hang out, chillin with some whiskey, and the baby in the living room, no big deal.
Those are the facts, *advertiser censored* or not, drunk baby rocking or not. Red flag. RED FLAG! That is not responsible behavior, period. If they had said peace out KP, see you LATER dude, this little girl would still be here. They will unfortunately have to live with that guilt forever.*
Kyle was in my room sitting in the chair, drinking and talking to people on his phone, I guess, cause I heard the tick, tick, tick texting. And, at roughly, 3, 4 o'clock in the morning, I heard the front door open and I look out my window and Kyles walking down the yard to his car. I open my window, I yell out to him, Kyle, where are you going? He never answered me back. He just got in his car and took off," Adam said.
Adam said he did not see Shaylyn with Parker.
No. I didnt see Shaylyn at all. Then of course, I was sleepy, I had sleepy eyes, I had alcohol in me and my vision was all messed up," he said."
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Jinkasaurus
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I just want to say I appreciate everyone here who is trying to focus on the facts and not let exaggerations and rumors run rampant. I think that is one of the things that makes WS different than so many forums - and so much better, IMO.
gliving
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"Visitation was held at the center from 3 to 7 p.m., with the funeral immediately following. Law enforcement officers from the Indiana State Police, Owen County Sheriff's office and Spencer Police Department were given a private viewing earlier in the day, State Police Sgt. Curt Durnil told IndyStar.
After the funeral, attendees stood outside and waited in the rain for the Shaylyn's casket to be loaded into the hearse and taken to her final resting place for a private burial."
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/...-old-funeral-services-set-wednesday/82439258/
I was glad to see LE have a private visitation for Shaylynn. It must have been so difficult for those who helped find find her body and ultimately find her killer.
I'm not going to place any blame on the family. Kyle Parker is a freak of nature. There is no way to protect against a person like this and that is why it's so scary. He reminds me of Isreal Keyes, the serial killer who was raising a daughter, married to a nurse and still killed randonly.
Elizabeth Smart taken from her bed by a homeless person her parents hired. They took lots of blame for that. Adam Walsh taken from Sears. What should the parents have done to prevent that?
The family has to hear what happened to Shaylyn, to hear it was the worst case of rape the doctor had ever seen.
Kyle Parker takes full blame. He and only he is responsible.
After the funeral, attendees stood outside and waited in the rain for the Shaylyn's casket to be loaded into the hearse and taken to her final resting place for a private burial."
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/...-old-funeral-services-set-wednesday/82439258/
I was glad to see LE have a private visitation for Shaylynn. It must have been so difficult for those who helped find find her body and ultimately find her killer.
I'm not going to place any blame on the family. Kyle Parker is a freak of nature. There is no way to protect against a person like this and that is why it's so scary. He reminds me of Isreal Keyes, the serial killer who was raising a daughter, married to a nurse and still killed randonly.
Elizabeth Smart taken from her bed by a homeless person her parents hired. They took lots of blame for that. Adam Walsh taken from Sears. What should the parents have done to prevent that?
The family has to hear what happened to Shaylyn, to hear it was the worst case of rape the doctor had ever seen.
Kyle Parker takes full blame. He and only he is responsible.
Hippie Heart
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There is no way to protect against a person like this?! He was a guest in their house and they fell asleep drunk and let him hang out when he was an "acquaintance". That is very VERY different than a man breaking in and taking Elizabeth Smart. Same thing with Adam Walsh. The difference between those situations and this one is that this WAS preventable.
Of course KP takes full blame. He committed the crime. But they provided the opportunity IMO. Not on purpose at all. But by negligence.
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gliving
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See, I just can't go there. I can't find it in my heart to blame the family for Kyle's actions. He did the deed. He takes the blame.
Hippie Heart
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I feel horrible for these people, I wouldn't wish this situation on my worst enemy. I cannot IMAGINE their grief. But unless these people are monsters, how could they not say to themselves My God!! If only we hadn't passed out drunk!
Of COURSE they are not behavioral analyst level security people, who is? Of course I don't ID everyone who enters my door. But no FREAKING WAY an I going to pass out drunk while a friend-of-a-friend acquaintance is up drinking alone in my house and my baby is right there!
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1&2&3
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Bottom line, if this baby was asleep in a bedroom, she would have had some protection.
Who in the world puts a crib in the middle of a living room? I have never heard of such a thing!
A different sleeping arrangement needed to be made so this baby could get good sleep. Put the crib in the grandparents room or the brothers bedroom, just not in the open living room. Had she been in a bedroom with other people, she would still be here.
The house was too small for its occupants.
Who in the world puts a crib in the middle of a living room? I have never heard of such a thing!
A different sleeping arrangement needed to be made so this baby could get good sleep. Put the crib in the grandparents room or the brothers bedroom, just not in the open living room. Had she been in a bedroom with other people, she would still be here.
The house was too small for its occupants.
kammiemc
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My goodness, that is a cozy space for so many people to live in (5 adults and one baby?) and unbelievably small for people not to hear yells in the middle of the night. For some reason I was imagining a big two-story. I guess this makes me understand why gma and step gpa needed sleeping pills to hit the hay. Makes me want to cry to imagine a helpless baby there. I couldn't leave my dog there over night without being worried sick.
Of what I have read here I would say that the Morgan/Ammerman family is a dysfunctional family, be it because of a history of alcoholism, drug use, mental illness/disabilites, or for some other reasons, and it's very possible that the family/ies have been dysfunctional for several generations. For a person having grown up in a dysfunctional family, it's difficult to know and understand the rules for what is considered as normal behaviour, and to be able to "read" other people and to understand their non-verbal behaviour. What most people consider "normal" when it comes to how to take care of a child, to see to the safety of a child, whom to allow near or allow to handle the child, is most likely not things that come naturally to people from dysfunctional families, especially if it's not how they and their children had been brought up. If having a lackadaisical upbringing had been ok with the parents/grandparents, the family members today would probably not see any reason why it wouldn't be ok bringing up the little girl in the same manner.
I don't know if the majority of people here comes from "normal"/non-dysfunctional families or not, but to me it seems that most of those who have comment doesn't truly understand how it can be to grow up in a dysfunctional family, that what is considered as "normal" within a dysfunctional family is not the same as what society at large and people from non-dysfunctional families take for granted when it comes to "normal" (and acceptable) behaviour in today's world when it comes to how live and to how to bring up a small child.
This is MOO.
I don't know if the majority of people here comes from "normal"/non-dysfunctional families or not, but to me it seems that most of those who have comment doesn't truly understand how it can be to grow up in a dysfunctional family, that what is considered as "normal" within a dysfunctional family is not the same as what society at large and people from non-dysfunctional families take for granted when it comes to "normal" (and acceptable) behaviour in today's world when it comes to how live and to how to bring up a small child.
This is MOO.
Would you feel the same way if rather than Kyle, there was a dog that killed the baby who was put to sleep on the floor while all the adults were passed out drunk or from sleeping pills? Would it be the dog's fault or the people who put the child in such a situation?
There is no difference here.
You don't wait to know that a person is a potential threat to take precaution. Dad bears the responsibility for the safety of his child. He got drunk and passed out, leaving his baby girl unprotected and at the mercy of other drunken men - one her own uncle who was so drunk he couldn't SEE. This wasn't the uncle's first drinking rodeo, dad knew what kind of person he was and what kind of person Kyle was. It isn't rocket science. He was completely irresponsible and woefully negligent and his baby suffered from his stupidity.
Why are there mattresses on the outside of the house in the photo?
TDoc72
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What would stop KP from sneaking into her bedroom and doing the same? (To be clear, I'm not defending him.) Elizabeth Smart & Danielle VanDam were in their bedrooms. They were taken. Polly Klaus was having a sleepover in her living room. Should her mother be to blame?
TDoc72
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You are talking about the uncle. He admits he got drunk w/KP. JA, the father, has said he didn't want to drink w/them and went to bed. Besides knowing something about his *advertiser censored* watching, we don't know what AA knew about KP's perversions.
People (in general, not the OP) are doing a whole lot of judging based on a minimum of actual facts. Hindsight is always 20/20.
BrownRice
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This is an excellent point. I totally agree.
BrownRice
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Shaylynn being in the bedroom with an adult would have removed the risk 100%.
With the Smart and Van Dam cases, the children were not in bedrooms with adults. Smart was with a younger sister and Van Dam was alone. Klass was with other young children. The killers of these young girls were not invited guests in the homes and given free, unsupervised access while the adults slept in other bedrooms.
Like the 3 scenarios above show, we cannot remove 100% risk from our childrens' lives. They cannot have their parents as bodyguards all day long. However, I cannot compare Shaylynn to any of these cases. She was an infant left alone in an unlocked room with a drunk family acquaintance. While all the relatives slept in their rooms with their doors closed.
I have been here reading about poor sweet little baby Shaylyn. I haven't commented because i just couldn't find the words to express how i felt apart from heartbroken as we do for all innocent vulnerable little victims of our depraved societies wherever we live in this world. How did this world ever get so crazy? How did this kind of evil spring from what?
Where the most vulnerable members of our society, our children are endangered by those types of predators? It is in all walks of life from the top down filtering throughout society.
So many lives shattered and ruined, especially the life of a precious little soul that was brutally raped and murdered.
R.I.P. beautiful little Shaylyn, gone way too soon,
Where the most vulnerable members of our society, our children are endangered by those types of predators? It is in all walks of life from the top down filtering throughout society.
So many lives shattered and ruined, especially the life of a precious little soul that was brutally raped and murdered.
R.I.P. beautiful little Shaylyn, gone way too soon,
pukasonqo2
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reminds me a bit of cherish periwinkle, her mother befriended a complete stranger that offered to buy things with a gift card, allowed cherish to go to macca's with him; the little girl was murdered and assaulted by this man
as sad as both cases are, the parents have to take some responsibility as their actions put both, cherish and shaylyn, in vulnerable situations with nobody to help them
i understand that it was not CP's or SA's parents who murdered them but, unfortunately, they failed in protecting them
i am sorry for the families involved, but especially for SA, and i do not understand why such a young little girl had to go through this, it is not just SA but with any murdered, abused child the question remains :why, what is (if any) the reason behind this suffering?
Well, Ivy Tech Community College on his FACEBOOK as one of the schools he ATTENDED, so MAYBE he WENT there? :gaah: I don't know if he attended at the same time as Kyle; I'm putting it out there as a suggestion for supersleuths to figure out. Wow. Just wow. I am sure that students can attend a community college along with plenty of people and only know them on a first-name basis. I didn't state that they definitively met there, but that they maybe met there. Phew.
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