Interim discussion regarding questions from the jury and Arias on the stand #79

[Morning Glory]

I agree with you, please don't get me wrong. I put all responsibility directly on the beast that Jodi is. I just tend to ponder how, and why. I look to spiritual causes when I discover a complete lack of humanity in someone. Everyone said of Jodi, "There is a vacantness in her eyes", and if the eyes are the window to the soul, well it makes sense her soul is black. I don't think it is human to have such a dark soul. These souls are pretty rare I would guess, thank goodness. A normal human being, even if selfish, doesn't lack some basic humanity. Sure, we can all be selfish and nasty sometimes, but to inflict the horror that this gal did to another human being, keeping in mind she supposedly wasn't under the influence-which can heighten emotions, is just inconceivable. In no way does this not make her accountable. She chose 'evil'~the opposite of 'live'. She made her choice. Zero sympathy here, just trying to figure out how her mind-soul became so dark.
jmo

Of course, and I don't entirely disagree either, well put. Most people don't murder, so it's hard to understand. I just honestly believe obsession and selfishness are of non-supernatural origin and when left unchecked can well, posses people. I mean sometimes we romanticize it with romances in media and novels but deep, deep romantic obsession is unhealthy (I'm not talking about love, but many people justify obsession in the name of love). Imagine if you acted upon your anger and never held back for example, held your feelings above all else and let them control you.

I believe wholeheartedly that Jodi has some sort of personality disorder, I also believe that her obsession with Travis became so great as she let it go unchecked that she became too single-minded, stuck in the eye of the hurricane, to perceive or concern herself with the consequences of her actions. The consequences to Travis, those who loved him, or even her own life.

 

[Pink Panther]

You know a thought occurred to me scrolling through the photos on that link. Couldn't JA have sent herself texts from TA's phone? I'm just imagining him in the shower,or otherwise busy doing something and her texting back and forth between phones, setting up a scenario whereby TA looks like he's as into the whole fantasy deviant stuff that she is and then deleting them before he notices. Is that possible?
Since the suicide journal / letter/ whatever they were dated in 2007,I've come to believe she'd been premeditating her revenge for a year before she acted.

I would not at all be surprised if she was doing things like texting, emailing etc...using his phone. Why not? She keeps saying that they exchanged each other's passwords but really, how many people do you know that do that? Not so many. Maybe a husband and wife who are close and don't care but not two people who supposedly don't trust each other? That makes no sense at all. She hacked into everything he had. The only one I'm not convinced of yet is his bank account but it really would not surprise me in the least if she did that too.

I've mentioned my own personal experience regarding a sociopath here but I haven't felt all that comfortable going into detail. I would like to share a tidbit though to give an idea as to what these sub-humans can do. I was married to mine. For almost 10 months he pretended to go off to work each day. Sometimes early. Sometimes late and "rushing" out. Sometimes came home for lunch and sometimes calling that he couldn't because he had a meeting. He DIDN'T HAVE A JOB! He had been fired for stealing money! For 10 months! Do you know how he got away with it? He deposited (stolen) money every month...

There is no end to what they can do. They have no feelings. No shame. And with regards to motive...no jealousy. JA was not jealous. She felt either slighted or she felt he would expose her for what she was. Nothing else. This was not a crime of passion and was not about jealousy. Sociopaths rely on not being detected as such for their "livelihood" and TA threatened that in some way. She had found a field of dreams within the Mormon community and would have probably moved right along to the next one if he hadn't threatened to expose her.

moo

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

A lot of interesting theories and thoughts here tonight. I really enjoy reading all your posts here, but for about the fifth day in a row I feel like dead man walking, so I bid you all good night, and thanks for all your thoughts to ponder.

 

[queen9600]

Trumped my earlier snort with a hisssss! lol Nite Mr. Sirbaby.

Hey Katiecool, you may know this. I asked it before, but it wasn't answered. Has either side introduced the may 28th text fro Travis to Jodi into evidence, and if so, what side? I just know that I have read it, and I assumed that I saw it because it had been introduced into evidence, but I could be wrong. Thanks if you can help. I appreciate it.

 

[newsjunkie]

Googled just isn't what it used to be! I can NOT find the orignal shower photos...all of them..in order with the time stamps and I really need to see them!! Can anyone help me out???? Please?????

http://s1309.beta.photobucket.com/u.../bodyoutline_zpsaa496c64.png.html?sort=3&o=29

This video has them in order, time-stamped, and in "real-time". I think you have to scroll through the pics to get to the video, though. Sorry!

 

[SwampMama]

I wonder if it is possible that Jodi was going to stage the killing as a suicide. That might explain why she took the pics before. Perhaps in her mind, she would shoot him and stage it to look like a suicide, perhaps she would use those pics to show they got back together and she dumped him and he killed himself because he couldn't have her.

Yeah, farfetched but certainly no more ridiculous that the stories she has been spinning. Then the killing got out of hand and she realized that it would never be mistaken for a suicide so she had to clean up the scene and delete the pics.

No matter how she thought of it and did it, the irrefutable fact is that she did it and quite brutally. She can say all she wants that she wasn;t jealous of Mimi but the overkill that she did on Travis shows a lot of rage and hate. Travis wanted Mimi in his future and Jodi in his past and she was insanely jealous.

 

[Pink Panther]

Yes, it's ridiculous, as practically speaking, it would be very uncomfortable. Who would willingly sit in the bottom of a shower? Why would they? It's just not feasible as far as I'm concerned. Not to mention the expression on Travis' face. And, this was right after the photo shot of him when "someone" surprised him, thus the shocked facial expression. I can't understand why more hasn't been made of this by the prosecution. Just look at the photos. Go down the line. What does that, along with the rest of the evidence, lead you to believe. It's really a simple matter of deductive reasoning. IMO

Look at this picture. It was taken immediately after the full face pic of TA. He's still sitting with his arms on his knees. Notice something? The shower door is open. His arm is not opening the shower door. TA had NO IDEA that she was THAT bat chit crazy.

moo

ETA - Forgot to link the pic - Here it is:

http://s1352.beta.photobucket.com/user/tabularasa6/media/ja47_zpsda0f592d.jpg.html?sort=3&o=212

 

[MeeBee]

I would not at all be surprised if she was doing things like texting, emailing etc...using his phone. Why not? She keeps saying that they exchanged each other's passwords but really, how many people do you know that do that? Not so many. Maybe a husband and wife who are close and don't care but not two people who supposedly don't trust each other? That makes no sense at all. She hacked into everything he had. The only one I'm not convinced of yet is his bank account but it really would not surprise me in the least if she did that too.

I've mentioned my own personal experience regarding a sociopath here but I haven't felt all that comfortable going into detail. I would like to share a tidbit though to give an idea as to what these sub-humans can do. I was married to mine. For almost 10 months he pretended to go off to work each day. Sometimes early. Sometimes late and "rushing" out. Sometimes came home for lunch and sometimes calling that he couldn't because he had a meeting. He DIDN'T HAVE A JOB! He had been fired for stealing money! For 10 months! Do you know how he got away with it? He deposited (stolen) money every month...

There is no end to what they can do. They have no feelings. No shame. And with regards to motive...no jealousy. JA was not jealous. She felt either slighted or she felt he would expose her for what she was. Nothing else. This was not a crime of passion and was not about jealousy. Sociopaths rely on not being detected as such for their "livelihood" and TA threatened that in some way. She had found a field of dreams within the Mormon community and would have probably moved right along to the next one if he hadn't threatened to expose her.

moo

Very interesting Panther, thanks for sharing. I am sorry to hear that you've been through an ordeal. I hear being with a sociopath is a soul-sucking experience.

BBM
I have also heard that about sociopaths. That being exposed for what they are unleashes an unspeakable rage within them. Just hearing the words mental condition turned her face red and she seemed to be holding something back when she answered. She looked angry.

Thanks for your insight. I know they are evil people, but I find them fascinating and scary.

 

[MeeBee]

Hey Katiecool, you may know this. I asked it before, but it wasn't answered. Has either side introduced the may 28th text fro Travis to Jodi into evidence, and if so, what side? I just know that I have read it, and I assumed that I saw it because it had been introduced into evidence, but I could be wrong. Thanks if you can help. I appreciate it.

It was introduced by the defense, of all people. They did because he threatens her in it. But I am sure the context of the text was not lost on the jury.

 

[neesaki]

Good thinking. And Travis seemed to be quite meticulous about his house, clothes, etc. Super organized for a guy. And as you said, no matter how clean the shower was, it doesn't seem like something he would have wanted to do.

We have a huge shower, and I would not even think about sitting in the bottom of it. We do have a bench in ours, totally different situation though. For one thing, no matter what, the shower floor would feel a little cold and slimy, that's just the way they are. For another, the water would be constantly pelting down, and eventually make me feel I was drowning. That's why showers are designed the way they are, not for sitting down in. There aren't a lot of things I'm sure of. But one is that Travis did not sit in the bottom of the shower on his own free will. Just my opinion, but it's a fact, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[isa]

Googled just isn't what it used to be! I can NOT find the orignal shower photos...all of them..in order with the time stamps and I really need to see them!! Can anyone help me out???? Please?????

 

[tinkabella]

FROM Travis TO JA
April 2008
(illegible) you have that information. its 15 minutes it would take to gt the info. But you won't take 15 minutes. Why because it is an Fing lie. So either text me you that you are ready to tell the truth or give me your imaginary friend with the worst BS story you have ever told or leave me alone. Its a lie like no other. It is freaking foolish. There is no way out of it, you have screwed up your story so bad you can't mend it. You are caught. When will you realize that. I do not know. You have til tomorrow. to have me this persons information before I tell all of the hughes' leslie udy, the freemans, your parents and anyone else that matters about all the crazy things you have done. So either fess up or feel the wrath. No matter how bad the truth is I promise you the punishment will be better than the lie. This is worse than your magical email that a mysterious man you've never seen before wrote for you. You insult me by thinking ill believe such crap. nothing else from you til the truth. I already know your lying so why continue. After tomorrow, its gonna get real bad for you. Time to spit it out.

These 3 are all part of one long text, no replies from JA in between:
05/26/08 at 07:59:15am

I sent you a response to your dire conversation, that I hope you read because you need to read it. Maybe it will spark human emotion in you, something that only seems to exist when it comes to your own problems. But everyone else is just a part of your sick agenda. By the way, your pic comment to Danny Jones makes you look like a pure *advertiser censored*, even more to the people who know you. You should be embarrassed by it. If he knew what I knew about you he'd spit in ur face. So would everyone else. I have never never in my life been hurt so bad by someone. But why do I even say it because you don't care. It doesn't serve your evilness.

05/26/08 at 08:35:02am

You couldn't get off your lazy butt to to read it could you. That's the sociopath (I) know so well. it freakin figures

05/26/08 at 09:11:11am

I don't want your apology I want you to understand what I think of you. I want you to understand how evil I think you are. You are the worst thing that ever happened to me.

She had to do something really bad to him. He is threatening to expose her to all the people that she held in high regard (Freemans, Hughes, Her parents, leslie) we know how much her "reputation" matters to her. He's asking her for someone's info because he knows she's lying about something. One thing that stands out the most is him calling her a liar and evil. He had her pegged at this point. We've all seen how far she will take it to "protect" her image/reputation. Travis was not playing games with her, I feel like she needed to SILENCE him so her "secret" wouldn't get out. He was turning the tables on her and not letting her get away with it. he's drawing the line. He references the "crazy" things she's done including lying about a email that some mysterious man wrote for her (maybe he meant to her) but this is some kind of fabrication she came up with before the incident he's addressing in this text. He tells her the truth no matter how bad isn't as bad as her lies to him. He was giving her a day to come clean or he was going to air her out.

Travis is desperately trying to get her to tell the TRUTH (IN VAIN) He calls her out on being self serving and lacking human emotion (Exactly whats been said about her everywhere) and is trying to appeal to the human side of her. He's implying that she uses everyone for her own sick agenda. Travis tells her she looks like a *advertiser censored* from the comments she made on facebook (I don't believe her when she said it was related to the weatherman movie, she said/did something else) maybe she flirted with or had sex with his friend (we know her pattern of turning to the friend of an ex) He feels betrayed and hurt by her. At this point he feels like she's ignoring his messages to her.

In the end Travis summed it up by calling her evil and the worst thing that ever happened to him. He was going to let the cat out the bag about who/what she really was to the people she held in high esteem (i still think Dan Freeman was her next target, he seems smitten with her) She couldn't afford to have her mask ripped off. This is the FIRST TIME she saw that Travis was truly angry with her. No sex or lies was going to fix this. whatever she did was big and it was over. I think this is when she decided to kill him, her reputation means more to her than anything in this world. She knew he was serious this time and for that reason he needed to be silenced.

Notice in this he tells her that she is CAUGHT these types hate to be caught in their lies.

 

[queen9600]

It was introduced by the defense, of all people. They did because he threatens her in it. But I am sure the context of the text was not lost on the jury.

Thank you so much! I appreciate your response. If it was presented by the defense, then why has no one mentioned what it was that she did that he was talkin about? I assume the defense would say that it was about the alleged pedophilia, but does anyone know why Juan wasn't able to bring in her acts of stalking? This seems like the perfect open door for that.

 

[manzana]

Bringing this forward, the video (still frames)seen above was said to be shot shortly before his death, Does anyone know a date for it? To me I think it is very important if it was shot just weeks prior, it would show Jodi was still much in and around Travis, not ostracized, if it was shot months before hand not so important BUT Radar online said it was shortly before his death.

TIA

 

[neesaki]

Sounds like you need a hug! (((())))

Now your'e making me laugh, thinking of that movie "Elf" with Will Farrell ! LOL!!!

 

[kaRN]

I would not at all be surprised if she was doing things like texting, emailing etc...using his phone. Why not? She keeps saying that they exchanged each other's passwords but really, how many people do you know that do that? Not so many. Maybe a husband and wife who are close and don't care but not two people who supposedly don't trust each other? That makes no sense at all. She hacked into everything he had. The only one I'm not convinced of yet is his bank account but it really would not surprise me in the least if she did that too.

I've mentioned my own personal experience regarding a sociopath here but I haven't felt all that comfortable going into detail. I would like to share a tidbit though to give an idea as to what these sub-humans can do. I was married to mine. For almost 10 months he pretended to go off to work each day. Sometimes early. Sometimes late and "rushing" out. Sometimes came home for lunch and sometimes calling that he couldn't because he had a meeting. He DIDN'T HAVE A JOB! He had been fired for stealing money! For 10 months! Do you know how he got away with it? He deposited (stolen) money every month...

There is no end to what they can do. They have no feelings. No shame. And with regards to motive...no jealousy. JA was not jealous. She felt either slighted or she felt he would expose her for what she was. Nothing else. This was not a crime of passion and was not about jealousy. Sociopaths rely on not being detected as such for their "livelihood" and TA threatened that in some way. She had found a field of dreams within the Mormon community and would have probably moved right along to the next one if he hadn't threatened to expose her.

moo

Sorry about your experiences Pink Panther! I had FCA flashbacks while reading your post. :what:

 

[Captain86]

She put 2800 miles on the rental car for the trip. SO on a map, how many fill ups?

From what I have been able to find on the 2008 Ford Focus, it has a 13.5 gallon tank and get 24 mpg in town and 35 mpg on the highway. Since these estimates come from Ford, they are most likely a little generous. These numbers would work out to her having to fill up 6 times to get 2835 miles. According to the receipts, she put 42 gallons in the car on the trip from SLC to Sparksthis is over half the gas she would have needed for the entire trip.

 

[kaRN]

Bringing this forward, the video (still frames)seen above was said to be shot shortly before his death, Does anyone know a date for it? To me I think it is very important if it was shot just weeks prior, it would show Jodi was still much in and around Travis, not ostracized, if it was shot months before hand not so important BUT Radar online said it was shortly before his death.

TIA

He looks on the heavy side in that video so I'm not sure it was shot that shortly before his death. JA had a legitimate reason for hanging around at what might be a PPL event of some kind?? I haven't seen the video though because my computer takes so long to load so how 'close' do they appear in it?

 

[MeeBee]

Thank you so much! I appreciate your response. If it was presented by the defense, then why has no one mentioned what it was that she did that he was talkin about? I assume the defense would say that it was about the alleged pedophilia, but does anyone know why Juan wasn't able to bring in her acts of stalking? This seems like the perfect open door for that.

No one asked, not even Juan, and I think Juan didn't because he knows she'll just say he was jealous of someone (Steve Carroll?) But I agree there have been a couple times where I feel the stalking stuff could arguable come in. In response to juror question, Jodi says, "I had been hearing I was obsessed with him..." I thought that might be a good avenue, but maybe not. BTW, very stupid on Jodi's part to say that and I bet her attorneys were really mad she said that. She basically let everyone know that everyone that knew her was saying she was obsessed with Travis. They have to be wondering what would make people say that...

 

[Allyne Smithe]

I'll take one if you have an extra. lease:

:grouphug::grouphug::cupcake::cupcake::yourock::

We really appreciate you, KCL!