Interim discussion regarding questions from the jury and Arias on the stand #80

[Colt46]

If I could be a juror, I would ask one question:

"In hindsight, if you had known that Mimi Hall was not romantically interested in Travis, and told him so, would Travis still be alive today?"

 

[LizardQueen74]

By JA's convenient 'aproxi-clock' it was light and she had lunch with RB. When pressed IIRC she wouldn't narrow further than between 10am amd 2pm for lunch.

BBM: :rocker: love THAT!

 

[Shelby1]

OOPS! My explanation of Occam's Razor was overly redundant--sorry--just saw the answers/responses clearing this up.

Don't be sorry, redundant responses happen all the time. Can't be helped. Either that, or it seems like not one person responds. :floorlaugh:

 

[Truth Detector]

I'm undecided on which was the first stab. I do agree she attacked his back at the sink and maybe down the hall, but I think she could have attacked his back in more than one location, including in the shower.

Though I also think it's also possible by just using the element of surprise she may have been able to get to his chest even if he were looking.

Most of the stab wounds in the back were very close together in a tight pattern with the weapon in similar positions/angles for each of the wounds.

She undoubtedly inflicted these very quickly, "contemporaneous" with each other. They happened in one location and in only a few seconds, while he was stationary.

 

[Zuri]

Good point.

Seems more palatable for a woman do deliver that stuff, rather than a DA who specializes in sex crimes. Not sure if the jury was able to do any recon on him, but it would seem to exponentially up the creep factor if the jury is listening to Nurmi ask indelicate questions, rather than Wilmott.

I agree, but after all, Nurmi is the sex expert. Willmott may be uncomfortable with this line of questioning. AND don't forget, this is free advertising for Nurmi in his private practice. "Nurmi Knows Sex"!

 

[lil_buddy]

Occams Razor:
The simplest explanation is usually the right one. Detectives use it to deduce who's the likeliest suspect in a murder case -- you know, the butler did it. Doctors *use it to determine the illness behind a set of symptoms.

This line of reasoning is called Occam's razor. It's used in a wide variety of ways throughout the world as a means to slice through a problem or situation and eliminate unnecessary elements. But what we call the razor is a little different than what its author originally wrote. There are two parts that are considered the basis of Occam's razor, and they were originally written in Latin:
•The Principle of Plurality - Plurality should not be posited without necessity
•The Principle of Parsimony - It is pointless to do with more what is done with less

Taken together, they represent the basis of humanity's investigation into the universe, and the way we see our environment is largely based upon Occam's razor. There's no telling what kind of world we would live in today without Occam's razor.

Adding that stated another way:
Occam's razor "states that among competing hypotheses, the one that makes the fewest assumptions should be selected."

Occam's razor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The idea that JA planted the memory card in the camera with old pictures and that JA & TA did not have sex on 6/4/2008, imho, is not in accordance with Occam's razor.

 

[Mykeru]

THESE ARE men....I highly doubt they spent much time at the kitchen sink OR searching out smells. One roommate said he did notice a funky smell...think of it this way, you just moved into another person's personal home & you rent a room how deep are you going to dig into their stuff? They thought he was out of town. They had no idea he was dead! Maybe since Travis was gone they thought the dog had "stunk" the place up. Men this age are focused on working, sleeping and gfs and avoid smells b/c they may have to clean something LOL. Read Det Flores' report it helps put their actions in place....maybe odd for some of us to understand but if you ever had a roommate easy to understand based on my former roommates :seeya:

As a man's man who just finished cleaning the kitchen drainboard before it got funky, I resent that remark. What are you implying?

illowfight2:

You have to keep in mind that people get used to incrementally worsening smells. It's the olfactory equivalent of boiling a frog by turning the heat up slowly. Also, when I lived in Arizona in the 90s we always had the A/C on in June. When I lived in Golden Valley we had a swamp cooler and in Bullhead City just a plain old air conditioner. That will damp down smells. Plus, when people came into the house and there was an overpowering smell, that is after people had been to the upstairs, opened doors and began stirring the air. Before that the smell might have been contained to the upstairs bedroom area.

 

[kscornfed]

I feel exactly the same way. Will this trial ever end? What I do like though is the jury can ask her just about anything, where JM's hands are kind of tied (no pun intended)
They HAVE to be sick of listening to her never ending answers after 17 days plus she is a pathalogical liar, why in the world would they want to ask her anything? I just don't get it And I keep thinking with them asking her questions, and with her answering them~ Could they possibly being unintentionally forming some kind of bond that will make it harder for them to give her the DP? Just thoughts ~
Please feel free anyone to help me de-edify my thoughts :giggle:

i can't help with you de-edification, but what i wonder is how many of them haven't asked her ANYTHING.

 

[Myvice]

Good point.

Seems more palatable for a woman do deliver that stuff, rather than a DA who specializes in sex crimes. Not sure if the jury was able to do any recon on him, but it would seem to exponentially up the creep factor if the jury is listening to Nurmi ask indelicate questions, rather than Wilmott.

I'm guessing the Nurmi/sex crimes end would be to focus on Travis as a pedo. JMO

 

[TexMex]

this just struck me.....can you imagine after killing TA in the manner JA did and driving to UT to meet Ryan and as soon as they leave Ryan's house (headed for a meeting less than a mile away) you are stopped by a policeman?? any normal person would be a FREAKING basket case (we know it was for upside down license plate) but JA had no idea why she was being stopped....it could have been for killing TA...once detectives found out she had been involved in TAs murder and that she had been stopped in UT and she id not react in he least they knew right then she was cold as ice :jail:

Cold as Ice. I thought it was telling when she testified (juror question) that one reason she had to grind and adjust Ryan is because they had planned to do romantic type things and she didn't want to show up and be an "Ice Queen". Of course a few minutes after that another question was if she "was in the fog" when she was visiting Ryan and she says Yes!

 

[Mrs G Norris]

This is a question I would like to hear the jury ask this creature:

Can you explain how a supposed homosexual pedophile would want to have a threesome with 2 adult women? And, you being one of those adult women, who stated that you "wouldn't necessarily say no to it?":waitasec:

(que the Jeopardy music)

:floorlaugh:

You know I can see Jodi's thinking here.

Men fantasise about 3-ways (it was on 2 1/2 men so it must mean all men want that). I'll tell Travis that we should do a 3-way. He'll be all amazed and think I'm an awesome chick because I'm letting him live out all his sexual fantasies with me. No other Mormon chick would ever do that. Travis will drop down on one knee at the end of it and we'll live happily ever after.

:cake:

Time passes by .....

Jodi murders Travis and ends up in trail for her life and it's all Travis' fault for making her want to kill him so badly.

When I brought up the 3-way idea Travis said 'that'd be cool' before nearly falling asleep on the phone that time. Travis wanted to make me do a 3-way and that makes him look like a bad Mormon. OK I've got him now he deserved to die and nobody will think I'm on trial for murdering a nice person, they'll think I saved the world from a deviant and understand that once I started stabbing him it was a fight to the death that I just happened to win.

:takeabow:

 

[Allyne Smithe]

Yeah, sorry, I meant, "no, she'd have been arrested, pics or no."

Agree, but without the photos showing her dragging his bleeding body less than 2 minutes after the last photo of him alive, it would have been near impossible to prove she did it. She would have claimed the ninjas cut both of them as she tried to save him.

The day I was there, Nurmi had a forensics witness pull all of the items from the bleached load out of the evidence bag one by one. The point was to show that all of the clothes in that load didn't have signs of having been bleached. So I don't think it's been proven that she added bleach to the load because there was some stuff, dark socks in particular, that didn't have any bleaching on them. I don't think it matters much, though, since she obviously tried to cover up her involvement in many, many other ways.

Some items simply don't bleach. I used a ton of bleach in the washing machine--2 or 3 consecutive times--trying to bleach a black cashmere sweater. It ended up as black a black as it started, so I gave up and gave it away.

 

[Myvice]

ita

and the phone expert for the state already testified that all of her attempted calls TO Travis were consistent with him not answering.

In other words it is highly likely she never talked to travis

There is also evidence that was presented by an expert for the state that she accessed his voice mail after she killed him (most likely checking a message she had left for him)

Thanks for this, I thought they had actually conversed that night!!! And she testified Travis guilted her into coming... is that correct?

 

[bobloblaw]

THESE ARE men....I highly doubt they spent much time at the kitchen sink OR searching out smells. One roommate said he did notice a funky smell...think of it this way, you just moved into another person's personal home & you rent a room how deep are you going to dig into their stuff? They thought he was out of town. They had no idea he was dead! Maybe since Travis was gone they thought the dog had "stunk" the place up. Men this age are focused on working, sleeping and gfs and avoid smells b/c they may have to clean something LOL. Read Det Flores' report it helps put their actions in place....maybe odd for some of us to understand but if you ever had a roommate easy to understand based on my former roommates :seeya:

I always get a kick out of these stereotypes that women are so much more clean than men. I have seen many examples of females that live like pigs. Look at Travis' living conditions in his house and compare that to Jodi'd room at her grandparents house for starters...

 

[Mykeru]

"Nurmi Knows Sex"!

Why would you put that image in my head? Why? Why?

 

[Truth Detector]

this just struck me.....can you imagine after killing TA in the manner JA did and driving to UT to meet Ryan and as soon as they leave Ryan's house (headed for a meeting less than a mile away) you are stopped by a policeman?? any normal person would be a FREAKING basket case (we know it was for upside down license plate) but JA had no idea why she was being stopped....it could have been for killing TA...once detectives found out she had been involved in TAs murder and that she had been stopped in UT and she id not react in he least they knew right then she was cold as ice :jail:

Some have speculated that was part of her plan to have a documented Utah alibi.

 

[bobloblaw]

this just struck me.....can you imagine after killing TA in the manner JA did and driving to UT to meet Ryan and as soon as they leave Ryan's house (headed for a meeting less than a mile away) you are stopped by a policeman?? any normal person would be a FREAKING basket case (we know it was for upside down license plate) but JA had no idea why she was being stopped....it could have been for killing TA...once detectives found out she had been involved in TAs murder and that she had been stopped in UT and she id not react in he least they knew right then she was cold as ice :jail:

I believe she wanted to get pulled over to prove she was in Utah, thats why she flipped the license plate.

 

[Clue Finder 55]

I do not understand trying to tie premeditation to conception, all it really needs is a split second, makes for a much neater package to sell to a jury of 12.

Just the fact that weather Travis was shot first or stabbed first,the fact that Jodi in her own words said that Travis after she shot him Travis was yelling at her and grabbing at her clothes.
This proves he was still alive one way or the other.
By grabbing a knife it would have given her enough time to realise that if she continued stabbing or shooting that she would be taking his life.
The fact that she stabbed him after the shot proves he would have felt the pain and would have realised he was going to die.
The slitting of his throat brings in the Henious part of the law.
If you look up Arizona law you can read what factors can make a murder premeditated.
This should be a slam dunk just from the fact two weapons were used and which ever came first the gun or the knife she knew he would die by continuing the attack. Which ever came first she would have had ample time to retreat but chose to kill him thus premeditation.

 

[DebinGA]

I respectfully disagree. I agree with minor4th's and wilsoh's posts about the sequence of events and the reasoning behind them. They are posted here.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196224&page=11

Yes, I think they're right too. Thanks for linking to those posts.

 

[Angelina Frost]

Forgive the slight threadjack...

I just finished reading Travis's "Why I want to marry a golddigger," blog entry. Striking how intelligent and self-aware he was. It was a window into the soul of someone who had so much to offer the world.

How someone with such limitless potential had the misfortune of crossing paths with a maniac like JA astounds me. Doesn't make sense.