Intruder theories only. No posts from rdi members allowed

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Most legal experts agree that this indictment wasn't about the Rs covering for an outside murderer, but a 'compromise' from jurors not wanting to sort out which R did exactly what and when. It has even been referred to as a classic case of compromise. Unless they elaborate, we won't know for sure what they thought, but IMO, they weren't trying to stick it to the Rs. The exact opposite, IMO. They were going easy on them. This isn't a popular belief here, but I don't think the jurors thought the Rs were covering for their son or anybody besides themselves. This was about abuse that these 2 were responsible for that led to JonBenet's death. all moo.

Actually Most legal experts I see discussing the case believe that the R's were unjustly persecuted all these years.

It was a junk decision. And as GJ are not about real guilt but probability, It says even more. It was about was there enough to take them to court. There was not enough for this jury to even charge they should be brought to trial for the murder of JBR. That is pretty bad.
 
'knowing the person being assisted HAS committed and was suspected of the crime of Murder in the First Degree and Child Abuse Resulting in Death'. Murder in the first degree...the jurors were pretty clear here. Just because they chose not to name who did what and when, this is what they charged them with...not just covering up for some unnamed someone else. This was about PR and JR. moo
 
There is nothing there at all that says they did anything to her. Nothing. In all the evidence, all the facts, all the smoking gun evidence people like to say points to them, IT DIDN'T. This indictment was nothing more than them saying.. "well there is no evidence but we think they are guilty so what can we get them with... " I know.. They stood by and watched.. and then after someone else brutally murdered her, they covered it all up...

Not even close to feasible. Hunter did not charge them because he knew it was a joke.

It is completely ridiculous. OMO.

There is nothing at all in this case that points to the Parents or any Ramsey as a killer of Jon Benet.
I can't say for sure of course, but I doubt very seriously that ' Hunter did not charge them because he knew it was a joke'. If he thought it was a joke, he would have signed the paper and then refused to prosecute and explained why it was such a joke. moo
 
I can't say for sure of course, but I doubt very seriously that ' Hunter did not charge them because he knew it was a joke'. If he thought it was a joke, he would have signed the paper and then refused to prosecute and explained why it was such a joke. moo

I disagree. I think he did not sign it because he was not putting his name on something so ludicrous. But that is MOO.
 
Exactly.
The only IDI theory that makes some sense to me is it's someone getting back at JR and JR has his own reasons (ugly secrets)to keep his mouth shut and cover it up...but what did JR do to deserve this(must be something very bad/illegal)? ?how did he convince PR to go along and keep her mouth shut?too many questions.but I am CONVINCED at least JR knows who& why IF IDI.
Interesting theory...and it got me to thinking. I'm not trying to change your mind, but it's interesting to keep your scenario the same but take out IDI and insert PR. IMO, this is very close to a theory that I lean towards, even the part about PR getting back at JR. One thing I agree with you on is that JR knew exactly what was up and he had a self serving reason for cooperating. moo
 
Most legal experts agree that this indictment wasn't about the Rs covering for an outside murderer, but a 'compromise' from jurors not wanting to sort out which R did exactly what and when. It has even been referred to as a classic case of compromise. Unless they elaborate, we won't know for sure what they thought, but IMO, they weren't trying to stick it to the Rs. The exact opposite, IMO. They were going easy on them. This isn't a popular belief here, but I don't think the jurors thought the Rs were covering for their son or anybody besides themselves. This was about abuse that these 2 were responsible for that led to JonBenet's death. all moo.
I agree with you, the GJ did not believe BDI, and it's evident they agreed JonBenet was murdered. ...in the 1st degree.

Some may believe the jurors didn't know which Ramsey did what, so they compromised. Or, maybe they didn't know IF either Ramsey was guilty of anything?
Denver defense attorney and legal analyst Dan Recht said the documents show the conflict within the grand jury.

"In a sense, they seem to be classic compromise grand jury decision," Recht said. "They can't decide whether to indict on murder. They can't decide not to indict at all. So they compromise in between."

Curiously, the charges in each parent's unsigned indictment are listed as Count IV(a) and Count VII. Recht said that shows the district attorney presented multiple possible charges to the grand jury — likely including murder — and that these two were the only ones the grand jury could agree upon. And that, Recht said, shows why Hunter was reluctant to go forward with any of the charges.

"In part, this vindicates Alex Hunter," Recht said. "He probably saw this as a classic compromise, and he believed, if he couldn't prove murder, he couldn't prove either of these beyond a reasonable doubt."
Link to full article: http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_24385866/jonbenet-ramsey-grand-jury-indictment-unsealed
 
There is nothing there at all that says they did anything to her. Nothing. In all the evidence, all the facts, all the smoking gun evidence people like to say points to them, IT DIDN'T. This indictment was nothing more than them saying.. "well there is no evidence but we think they are guilty so what can we get them with... " I know.. They stood by and watched.. and then after someone else brutally murdered her, they covered it all up...

Not even close to feasible. Hunter did not charge them because he knew it was a joke.

It is completely ridiculous. OMO.

There is nothing at all in this case that points to the Parents or any Ramsey as a killer of Jon Benet.

My Search for JonBenet Ramsey's Killer
By Jeffrey Scott Shapiro / FoxNews.com

(snip)

" Kolar made his presentation to Boulder District Attorney Mary Lacy, she did the unthinkable by releasing a written statement clearing the Ramseys. Lacy however, was not the original district attorney who investigated the crime, Alex Hunter was, and

*Hunter had always told me in private that he believed Patsy was the only logical suspect*

– as did almost all my sources in the Boulder Police Department, Colorado Bureau of Investigations and F.B.I. "

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011...eys-killer-15-year-anniversary-retrospective/

Jeffrey Scott Shapiro is a journalist who has investigated the murder of JonBenet Ramsey for nearly 16 years.
 
My Search for JonBenet Ramsey's Killer
By Jeffrey Scott Shapiro / FoxNews.com

(snip)

" Kolar made his presentation to Boulder District Attorney Mary Lacy, she did the unthinkable by releasing a written statement clearing the Ramseys. Lacy however, was not the original district attorney who investigated the crime, Alex Hunter was, and

*Hunter had always told me in private that he believed Patsy was the only logical suspect*

– as did almost all my sources in the Boulder Police Department, Colorado Bureau of Investigations and F.B.I. "

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011...eys-killer-15-year-anniversary-retrospective/

Jeffrey Scott Shapiro is a journalist who has investigated the murder of JonBenet Ramsey for nearly 16 years.

I don't agree with Kolar or his thoughts on this case.

Whether Hunter even said that, We have to take Kolar's word for it. I don't know if I believe that. I don't see anyone else saying the same thing, so it is also the word of only Kolar that Hunter could have said that...

The thing is that the Grand jury did not even believe that. They did not vote to indict Patsy for murder. They did not vote to indict her on manslaughter. Ntohing related to the killing of Jon benet. So they had no evidence that proved that.

All this time it has been about the true bill of the Grand jury and that they voted to indict them for killing Jonbenet during some act of abuse.. But that turns out not to be the case. They did not indict them on anything that had to do with the killing of Jon benet. Even after seeing everything, this GJ did not indict them with anything more than letting the death of their daughter happen.

My guess is that Lacy did indeed read this indictment and knew it was bunk also which that along with the DNA that matches no one, Was the reason she came out and apologized to the R's. Seems appropriate to me. Hunter did not have the DNA that she had.
 
I don`t believe PR abused JB, she took her to the doctor many times. She was not afraid of abuse showing up.

I agree with IDI that most RDI theories (as well as IDI theories) don`t seem to make any sense, the motives and stories are "out there" imo. Such that Patsy was jealous of her 6 year old daughter/was angry at John and on Christmas night abused and killed her. Or that JR/PR after a long day and leaving early in the morning to Charlevoix decided to abuse JB by poking at her with something and garroting her and accidentally/intentionally killing her. Nope, it makes no sense. Thank you for this thread where I can feel comfortable saying it.

Nonetheless, for me the evidence currently supports RDI, I used to lean more towards IDI. But this thread is for IDI only and I respect that.
 
I don`t believe PR abused JB, she took her to the doctor many times. She was not afraid of abuse showing up.

I agree with IDI that most RDI theories (as well as IDI theories) don`t seem to make any sense, the motives and stories are "out there" imo. Such that Patsy was jealous of her 6 year old daughter/was angry at John and on Christmas night abused and killed her. Or that JR/PR after a long day and leaving early in the morning to Charlevoix decided to abuse JB by poking at her with something and garroting her and accidentally/intentionally killing her. Nope, it makes no sense. Thank you for this thread where I can feel comfortable saying it.

Nonetheless, for me the evidence currently supports RDI, I used to lean more towards IDI. But this thread is for IDI only and I respect that.


Well you would be the first RDI to respect it so props to you.
 
The pageant thing is weird I will give you that but I don't see it at all as sexualizing her. That whole scene is weird to me and not something I would want my child in but look what a big business it is.

Patsy loved that child. It is obvious.

I've heard tens of thousands of kids participate, even to the point of being dressed up like adults as JBR was, and most of the parents are not violent criminals.
 
The playbook in a kidnapping is to make absolutely 100% certain also that the kidnapper is still not in the house
When we say an IDI, does that mean the R's didn't know who did it at the time they called the police?

It seems to me if they did not know who did it, they would have been more scared the intruder was still around. The RN said they would be monitored closely. They say the intruder entered and killed their child and move her to the basement without anyone hearing anything. JR said he didn't notice any doors unlocked. I find that notion terrifying.

I would expect the parents would refuse to let BR out of their sight.

I can't understand why PR accepted the RN at face value on the 911 call without even hinting at the idea it was a sick prank or something.

I obviously can't prove it, but it sounds to me the R's knew who did it. That does not mean the RDI.

Maybe someone else can think of a plausible scenario why they would know who did it but not tell anyone. Maybe they allowed someone they knew to molest JBR and it went to far. Or maybe a criminal did it in retribution for some wrong the R's had done as part of some criminal enterprise. I'm grasping for some scenario in which the R's know who did it but wont say because it would get them in trouble.

I'm posting this here b/c if I write "the R's knew who did it" in another thread, people will say, "sure, because the RDI." In the [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116882"]911 thread[/ame] we talked about whether there was erased audio or background noise showing the R's lied. I could never get past the foreground sound: PR accepting the note at face value and showing no concern the kidnapper would strike again or retaliate for her calling the cops.

I am interested to hear a) ideas about how an intruder could have kept the R's from telling LE who did it or b) ideas about how PR could have first heard of the crime from the RN note, believed it, and not expressed fear of kidnappers' next move.
 
When we say an IDI, does that mean the R's didn't know who did it at the time they called the police?

It seems to me if they did not know who did it, they would have been more scared the intruder was still around. The RN said they would be monitored closely. They say the intruder entered and killed their child and move her to the basement without anyone hearing anything. JR said he didn't notice any doors unlocked. I find that notion terrifying.

I would expect the parents would refuse to let BR out of their sight.

I can't understand why PR accepted the RN at face value on the 911 call without even hinting at the idea it was a sick prank or something.

I obviously can't prove it, but it sounds to me the R's knew who did it. That does not mean the RDI.

Maybe someone else can think of a plausible scenario why they would know who did it but not tell anyone. Maybe they allowed someone they knew to molest JBR and it went to far. Or maybe a criminal did it in retribution for some wrong the R's had done as part of some criminal enterprise. I'm grasping for some scenario in which the R's know who did it but wont say because it would get them in trouble.

I'm posting this here b/c if I write "the R's knew who did it" in another thread, people will say, "sure, because the RDI." In the 911 thread we talked about whether there was erased audio or background noise showing the R's lied. I could never get past the foreground sound: PR accepting the note at face value and showing no concern the kidnapper would strike again or retaliate for her calling the cops.

I am interested to hear a) ideas about how an intruder could have kept the R's from telling LE who did it or b) ideas about how PR could have first heard of the crime from the RN note, believed it, and not expressed fear of kidnappers' next move.

BBM, I know that it seems that way. But when my son was missing even for that short while, I handed off my other child to people around me and focused on the one that was missing. I could not deal with anything else. I knew he was safe and surrounded and so I could focus on the problem at hand, finding the other child.

I think they may know the person who killed JBR but I don't think they knew WHO that may be then or even now although they may have suspects in their mind..
 
Actually, The R's were indicted for "letting it happen" AND purposely trying to cover up and derail the investigation.
The GJ found the R's to be complict. IMO, that's no joke.

If what I've heard is true, 95-98% of people who make it to the indictment stage are guilty. Not so hot odds.
 
The relevant statistic would be what percentage of people indicted but not prosecuted are guilty? Of course we don't know the answer to this question, but can presume that it is greatly less than 50%.
 
I don`t believe PR abused JB, she took her to the doctor many times. She was not afraid of abuse showing up.

I agree with IDI that most RDI theories (as well as IDI theories) don`t seem to make any sense, the motives and stories are "out there" imo. Such that Patsy was jealous of her 6 year old daughter/was angry at John and on Christmas night abused and killed her. Or that JR/PR after a long day and leaving early in the morning to Charlevoix decided to abuse JB by poking at her with something and garroting her and accidentally/intentionally killing her. Nope, it makes no sense. Thank you for this thread where I can feel comfortable saying it.

Nonetheless, for me the evidence currently supports RDI, I used to lean more towards IDI. But this thread is for IDI only and I respect that.

Welcome back, Mysteeri! The Force is strong within you. Become my apprentice. Learn to use the Dark Side of the Force.
 
Hunter didn't charge them because he knew HE was a joke, Scarlett. Big difference.

That has no basis in fact. Just your opinion of him.. Nothing more..

Now that I see the indictment findings, I know why he did not sign it. The verdict was a joke.
 
The relevant statistic would be what percentage of people indicted but not prosecuted are guilty? Of course we don't know the answer to this question, but can presume that it is greatly less than 50%.

I am not sure what the percentage is but one is too many. I have seen too many cases lately where someone was convicted and rotted in prison way to long before the truth came out.
 
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