Is Casey Anthony Possibly Innocent?

[BigMomma]

Thanks for this post. Florida law says since the child was in her care and is now dead due to one of the above choices that you listed BBM, KC can be sentenced to a sentence of up to LWOP. I am happy with that. If that is all the state can prove, I can accept it. I think they will be able to prove a lot more. :twocents:

Right because when it comes right down to it ICA knew the "moxie" of her parents and she knew they had tempers or ? This is child neglect, abandonment and abuse because she left the child with them when she knew how they were and she did it for her good times. Sorry, but being responsible for your own child outweighs the good times every time. She chose good times over the care and responsibilty for Caylee.

 

[gamom]

You know I'm with ya on several of those issues. I need evidence that it was CASEY and ONLY Casey that hurt Caylee and am hoping to see that at trial cuz I haven't seen it yet.

The good news is, the law does not require proof that it was KC acted alone. Just that she herself was involved in her daughters death. If it comes out in court that she had help, the state can prosecute them seperately. CA loved Caylee though. Just watch the earlier videos. You can see it. She was devasted. She had all of the feelings that I expected to see from KC. I remember early on thinking that CA would have a nervous breakdown before this came to trial.

 

[cv1964]

In my mind this is also the world record breaking albatross for the DT.. She herself told the 911 operator that Caylee was with Zanny.. it is going to be virtually impossible to explain that away..

I can truly see the jurors finding reasonable doubt in everything else.. and even though JP will explain that the DT does NOT have to prove her innocence.. this one factor will hopefully SCREAM at the jurors that something doesn't add up which will hopefully equal "reasonable doubt"... again I think the fact that they will have so much to absorb that it COULD all go wrong.. but I am holding out hope that it won't.

In my way of thinking, we DO have a timeline for Caylee. She was a toddler, a totally dependent being, and not like a teenager or a boyfriend. If she was an older child then we would NOT have a valid timeline because she would have had free will and the ability to run away, or meet an on-line predator, or even jump in a lake by herself. BUT SHE WAS A BABY. So her timeline was IDENTICAL to her mother's timeline. imoo

They are already sending their friends and Defense team spokesman out in talk shows to say the nanny story is a lie. They want to distance themselves from that albatross around their necks. But their problem now is how ro replace that story. If she did not hand her off to the nanny, then what? And who?

 

[BigMomma]

Because she is a deeply disturbed individual and undercover is how she works. I don't trust the woman at all and still wonder to this day if she isn't setting her own daughter up.

I can see this, sure. Can also see how George could set up his own daughter as well. Got to remember here, he was the odd man out in that family. Between them both, I am just not sure which one has more of a problem. Are these 2, ICA and CA doing this to ring George a new one because no other way to get him out of CA's life? did he do this? I'm thinking about the divorce angle of it. George had odd behavior. I listened to one of the LE tapes where he said he'd give ICA coupons to go get her car serviced. Really? When he is the car guy? he's the one who said he changed out ICA's tires, but now gives her a coupons for rotation, but then again he claims he needed those wedges for CA's car to rotate her tires? I just hope SA gets to the bottom of all of this. It's going to come out, it has to! I do not nor have ever trusted CA, she made herself too available and an all too willing participant of the lies when she says she is clueless. Clueless people don't keep talking like she has. I need to stop on this now or I'm going to punch something. :maddening:

 

[kjpaw]

Maybe I'm alone on this but I don't believe she had help. My belief is whatever happened she did not share it with anyone.

Adding to my posts above is the fact she told no one. Using the terrified of parents due to verbal, emotional, sexual abuse possible claims is not going to fly IMO.

How will that be explained?

Personally I wish they'd stick to the Zanny story because as a SA the first question I would ask would be "when zanny wasn't at her apartment and you couldn't get her on the phone, why did it never cross your mind to contact the police and hospitals to see if she was in an accident?". That never made sense to me that she didnt consider that and I'm not sure why LE didn't ask her that.

 

[costalpilot]

I think the duct tape is actually a very good point of discussion.


Most of you seem to be saying this:

Because the same brand of duct tape that was wrapped around the childs mouth was found in the Anthony home Casey must have wrapped the duct tape around the child's mouth.

But that isnt what the duct tape says ACCORDING TO THE LAW. According to the law, as a fair and impartial juror, this is what the duct tape says:

Caylee had duct tape wrapped around her mouth, that same brand of duct tape was also found in the Anthony home. THAT is ALL the duct tape says, for you to take the giant LEAP and says because it was found in the Anthony home Casey MUST have used to to wrap her daughters mouth. Those are the kind of leaps bad jurors make and the very kind of leaps that get innocent people convicted of crimes they did not commit. Any number of people could be using that same duct tape within the Anthony home, there is NO EVIDENCE that PROVES it was Casey who used it as such, to say there is, is a leap, a guess, a gut feeling, all of which do not belong in the jury deliberation room.

it is worth less to debate individual facts about a case, as if they exist in a vacuum. they do not.

it is not a leap, or a guess, or a gut feeling to look at all the facts and find the pattern that emerges. and when a reasonable person does that, a very clear picture of ICA surfaces.

31 days without regard for your child's disappearance, dominated by wild partying, together with lies upon lies about everything, together with the duct tape you dismiss as meaningless, make it plain who wrapped that tape around that child's head. and it wasn't the grandparents who called the cops when they discovered the truth that the child was gone, or anyone else.

but, yes, arguing each fact alone, by itself, you can overlook the truth that the many many facts present, if you care to.

but thats a personal decision.

 

[gramcracker]

is KC innocent? no. I think she's guilty as hell. innocent until proven guilty is a tenet of law and rightfully has a place in a courtroom. but this forum and others like it are the court of public opinion. I'm not married to a set-in-stone scenario yet because I'm waiting until I see the SA's case

but, like a few others, I've long believed that Caylee drowned on KC's watch and wasn't discovered until long after the point where resuscitation attempts would be successful. Caylee's body would've displayed evidence of being in water for a long/long time, which would've been immediately apparent to EMTs/LE/etc

if CA was in KC's face from time to time about being an unfit mother for just her actions in general, can you imagine CA's wrath if it became known that Caylee drowned and KC didn't notice for hours? at the very least it would be bye-bye gravy train: KC would have to move out/support herself, wouldn't have access to CA's bank acct/credit cards, GA/CA would take their car back. plus having to face the fact that everyone (family/friends/neighbors/the public via the media) would know how unfit she truly was

CA (or perhaps GA, w/ CA running interference) would throw it up in KC's face at every opportunity, for the rest of their lives. whichever the source, it would fuel a never-ending saga of abuse and condemnation

KC just might have found herself thrown to the curb w/ a couple suitcases, no car, no recent job history, no $$$, not even a HS diploma, and would also have been facing charges of neglect resulting in the death of her child. "moving on" w/ her life, making her own way, would be next to impossible for someone who is so incredibly immature, shalllow, selfish, coddled, spoiled. she's damaged in a way that may not be treatable. (not saying that lotsa people who come from rough circumstances can't/don't make something of themselves, but we're talking KC here). something in KC is broken and IMO CA has known if since forever but decided long ago to handle it "her way" and as part of their (perhaps unspoken) bargain, KC allowed it. the loss of Caylee as emotional/financial leverage would've changed the way the game was played. that's the way I see it if an accident had become public knowledge in the beginning

there was too much at stake for KC to admit what really happened (to LE, that is. IMO CA/GA learned the truth quite early, which is when/why they went on their tangernts). CA/GA surprised KC by going into forgiveness mode/us against the world. KC: "you don't know what my role is, in this"? (I could still be in charge if I wanted to, Mom. I could tell them what you knew, and when you knew it). also IMO CA/GA knew which clothing was w/ the remains, hence their claims that they'd never seen the Big Trouble t-shirt. which also relates to GA's description of the last outfit he saw Caylee wearing. KC's prior lies to so many people about a nanny woven neatly into new lies about a nanny turned kidnapper = duct tape in case the remains were located. the heart-shaped sticker denoted the teeniest/tiniest sub-atomic particle of shame/regret

like others here who are interested in true crime, I've idly thought from time to time that my google searches could easily be used against me in certain unforeseen circumstances. my DD has made many joking references to that (and my choice in library books. was it Silence of the Lambs where an FBI agent tells his guy to get a report on who checks out which books at the library? I got an elbow in the ribs from DD in the movie theater that night). so that comes pretty close to explaining the chloroform/neck breaking/household weapon searches for me. neck breaking is a band, right? one of the BFs had a chloroform reference on his FB page which was later removed. was it: win her over w/ chloroform (?). hmmm, except for AH sleepwalking/waking up in different pants than she'd gone to sleep in, her $400 missing. perhaps a trial run? who knows

just lately IMO KC has realized that one stupid act (among many) spiraled into 1000s of strangers searching for her child, national media coverage, LE and SAs who know who/what she is, and an actual trial, FGS. she just cannot bring herself to face up to any of that, and the fact that she started all of it. would KC sit in jail for 3 years knowing all along that there was an accident which she allowed to happen and that she was too spineless to admit it? yepper. because that's how it's always been w/ her: fake it 'til you make it, 10 minutes at a time

my vote for her tat woulda been: mi vida loca

(the maternal side of my family is quite Anthony-ish, which is why I see/think these things)

it was posted earlier that most evidence is circumstantial/what some think of as physical evidence is in actuality circumstantial evidence. true dat. which reminds me of Manson prosecutor Vince Bugliosi likening circumstantial evidence not to links in a chain (like many of us do) but rather to the strands of a rope. break one link/a few links and the chain is useless. but a rope of many strands is still strong if some/a few of the strands fray or break

 

[katydid23]

In my mind this is also the world record breaking albatross for the DT.. She herself told the 911 operator that Caylee was with Zanny.. it is going to be virtually impossible to explain that away..

I can truly see the jurors finding reasonable doubt in everything else.. and even though JP will explain that the DT does NOT have to prove her innocence.. this one factor will hopefully SCREAM at the jurors that something doesn't add up which will hopefully equal "reasonable doubt"... again I think the fact that they will have so much to absorb that it COULD all go wrong.. but I am holding out hope that it won't.

I understand what you mean, anything can and will go wrong. But keep in mind that we have just gotten all of this piecemeal ourselves. The prosecutors have it all together and they have interviewed all of the players and the experts and
seen all of the reports and the actual evidence.

You will be amazed at how organized and concise their presentation will be. They are going to take the jurors by their hands and walk them step by step
through the crime and the aftermath. After each step the DT will have a chance to muddy up the waters with their objections and cross examinations,
but it will not be enough imo. Just the 31 days and the duct tape and the smell in the trunk will be too big a hurdle, imo.

I just do not believe it will go sideways. I hope not anyway...

 

[BigMomma]

I'm sorry! I;m still a bit confused! (Not the first time that has happened:blushing. I was asking you about an anonymous phone call you stated Cindy made. Never heard that before.

Also, phone records should clear up whether casey was calling her mom on the days Cindy said she was and for how long they talked but if you are saying that what most surmise occurred with casey lying to her parents about Caylee's whereabouts may not be the case, and that instead, maybe her parents kicked casey out and killed the baby or sold her off or something, well, I think the witness testimony from co-workers of Cindy's, neighbors, friends of the Anthony family, casey's friends and the statements from casey and her family as well as phone records, etc., show that what most surmise is likely accurate.

I am baffled by the fact that people sometimes suppose that the evidence against casey for premeditated murder is not sufficient because there could be possible other explanations yet those possible other explanations have no basis in any kind of fact whatsoever. I do not mean that to sound snotty and I hope it is not taken that way because I love every single wonderful, fellow websleuther! But it is, IMO, illogical. (Ooh! I sound like Mr. Spock!).

No, no. I'm saying what we heard about the content of the phone call conversations might not be truthful, as far as telling her mother about Nanny, etc. Nobody ever heard any of those calls. Not making any excuses for any of them, but given the way the lies have been generated, who's really to say what those conversations were really about, that's all. Just don't have any trust for any of them. It sometimes sounds like CA says-half truths-Zanny's at the beach with Caylee, CA is at the beach with GA, etc.

 

[nitasch]

Anyways even though I think KC is guilty I don't think this is a death penalty case.
It makes sense now after Gamon's post but I still don't understand what makes KC so different from all the mothers that sadly kill their babies and are not on death row QUOTE]

BBM Completely agree with you. I think the manner in which she hid the body and acted afterwards is definately "serial killer" inl ike. But other than that, I would agree to what makes her different? Sometimes it is the state you live in. If you are gonna kill someone, don't do it in TEXAS and FLORIDA. I feel that she should get life. But if the state can lay out how henious the crime was and how much Caylee suffered..who knows she might get DP. If proven beyond a reasonable doubt. When I mentioned this to My hubby who does not even follow this case..I mentioned that I did not think it was a DP case. Here said and I qoute "If they prove that the little baby was alive in that trunk with tape on her face, in the middle of July. Left alone to suffer and gasp for every breath of air, how can that NOT be a DP case? She was burried alive"

That is the first time I thought she could get death. It really depends on what the state says. I have always wondered why they seem so sure.

EXACTLY my thoughts during the entire duration of this case... The SA has to have something....some sort of evidence we have not been privey to or they would not have left the DP on the table.

Personally I have not seen anything in the evidence we have seen where the state can convince all that this was a DP offense... simply because we have not seen anything concrete as to how this baby died...there are speculations and theories of course.

The fact they left the DP on the table AFTER they knew she would not talk, confess, plea etc, makes me think they really have something we have not seen, rather than just putting it out there to convince her to plea.

I am anxious to see just what it is if anything they have... if we know all they have, I do not believe this jury will go for the death penalty, but I do believe they will convict her of multiple charges....quite possibly 1st degree murder..

 

[KatrinaLee73]

Personally, I "believe" that she is guilty, hence the information we have been provided by the media. It all adds up. :banghead: I'm very curious to hear what we will "all understand".

 

[BigMomma]

is KC innocent? no. I think she's guilty as hell. innocent until proven guilty is a tenet of law and rightfully has a place in a courtroom. but this forum and others like it are the court of public opinion. I'm not married to a set-in-stone scenario yet because I'm waiting until I see the SA's case

but, like a few others, I've long believed that Caylee drowned on KC's watch and wasn't discovered until long after the point where resuscitation attempts would be successful. Caylee's body would've displayed evidence of being in water for a long/long time, which would've been immediately apparent to EMTs/LE/etc

if CA was in KC's face from time to time about being an unfit mother for just her actions in general, can you imagine CA's wrath if it became known that Caylee drowned and KC didn't notice for hours? at the very least it would be bye-bye gravy train: KC would have to move out/support herself, wouldn't have access to CA's bank acct/credit cards, GA/CA would take their car back. plus having to face the fact that everyone (family/friends/neighbors/the public via the media) would know how unfit she truly was

CA (or perhaps GA, w/ CA running interference) would throw it up in KC's face at every opportunity, for the rest of their lives. whichever the source, it would fuel a never-ending saga of abuse and condemnation

KC just might have found herself thrown to the curb w/ a couple suitcases, no car, no recent job history, no $$$, not even a HS diploma, and would also have been facing charges of neglect resulting in the death of her child. "moving on" w/ her life, making her own way, would be next to impossible for someone who is so incredibly immature, shalllow, selfish, coddled, spoiled. she's damaged in a way that may not be treatable. (not saying that lotsa people who come from rough circumstances can't/don't make something of themselves, but we're talking KC here). something in KC is broken and IMO CA has known if since forever but decided long ago to handle it "her way" and as part of their (perhaps unspoken) bargain, KC allowed it. the loss of Caylee as emotional/financial leverage would've changed the way the game was played. that's the way I see it if an accident had become public knowledge in the beginning

there was too much at stake for KC to admit what really happened (to LE, that is. IMO CA/GA learned the truth quite early, which is when/why they went on their tangernts). CA/GA surprised KC by going into forgiveness mode/us against the world. KC: "you don't know what my role is, in this"? (I could still be in charge if I wanted to, Mom. I could tell them what you knew, and when you knew it). also IMO CA/GA knew which clothing was w/ the remains, hence their claims that they'd never seen the Big Trouble t-shirt. which also relates to GA's description of the last outfit he saw Caylee wearing. KC's prior lies to so many people about a nanny woven neatly into new lies about a nanny turned kidnapper = duct tape in case the remains were located. the heart-shaped sticker denoted the teeniest/tiniest sub-atomic particle of shame/regret

like others here who are interested in true crime, I've idly thought from time to time that my google searches could easily be used against me in certain unforeseen circumstances. my DD has made many joking references to that (and my choice in library books. was it Silence of the Lambs where an FBI agent tells his guy to get a report on who checks out which books at the library? I got an elbow in the ribs from DD in the movie theater that night). so that comes pretty close to explaining the chloroform/neck breaking/household weapon searches for me. neck breaking is a band, right? one of the BFs had a chloroform reference on his FB page which was later removed. was it: win her over w/ chloroform (?). hmmm, except for AH sleepwalking/waking up in different pants than she'd gone to sleep in, her $400 missing. perhaps a trial run? who knows

just lately IMO KC has realized that one stupid act (among many) spiraled into 1000s of strangers searching for her child, national media coverage, LE and SAs who know who/what she is, and an actual trial, FGS. she just cannot bring herself to face up to any of that, and the fact that she started all of it. would KC sit in jail for 3 years knowing all along that there was an accident which she allowed to happen and that she was too spineless to admit it? yepper. because that's how it's always been w/ her: fake it 'til you make it, 10 minutes at a time

my vote for her tat woulda been: mi vida loca

(the maternal side of my family is quite Anthony-ish, which is why I see/think these things)

it was posted earlier that most evidence is circumstantial/what some think of as physical evidence is in actuality circumstantial evidence. true dat. which reminds me of Manson prosecutor Vince Bugliosi likening circumstantial evidence not to links in a chain (like many of us do) but rather to the strands of a rope. break one link/a few links and the chain is useless. but a rope of many strands is still strong if some/a few of the strands fray or break

I think in real life, Caylee did drown. She could have crawled back into the pool if CA was arguing with ICA inside the house. Doesn't take many minutes for that to happen, but then what? Could CA have had a forgetful moment thinking Caylee was in the house, but wasn't? I know it sounds unbelievable, but this family, anything is possible. We will wait and see, it's all we can do.
Tell you one thing, if there is one stupid comment made in opening statements via DT, they better know how to fix it, because I'm tired of the dog and ponies already. This is serious, should be dealt with very seriously. I am so sorry if I made anyone mad, not my intent at all. I guess I've been too exposed to these A's that I can see the worst of the worst in all of them.

 

[atthelake]

Unless someone was playing some fast shuffle with information, it is questionable. True, she wasn't around the house too much, true she did go there to pick up clothes or whatnots in the late afternoon, but how do we actually know if she just figured her dad took Caylee to her mom's work? How do we know that for fact? What I would love to know and I bet there is no information on it, is if the officer, the one who took the info about the stolen gas cans? I wonder if he saw Caylee when he went to the house? I think this is a very good question. Would sure clear up a lot of gray area for me.

Consider it cleared up for you, the officer did not see Caylee at the house.

 

[crucibelle]

I think in real life, Caylee did drown. She could have crawled back into the pool if CA was arguing with ICA inside the house. Doesn't take many minutes for that to happen, but then what? Could CA have had a forgetful moment thinking Caylee was in the house, but wasn't? I know it sounds unbelievable, but this family, anything is possible. We will wait and see, it's all we can do.
Tell you one thing, if there is one stupid comment made in opening statements via DT, they better know how to fix it, because I'm tired of the dog and ponies already. This is serious, should be dealt with very seriously. I am so sorry if I made anyone mad, not my intent at all. I guess I've been too exposed to these A's that I can see the worst of the worst in all of them.

For a long, long time, I thought Caylee had drowned in the pool. The one thing that kept ruining my theory, however, was the duct tape. I just can't see how the duct tape would fit into a drowning scenario.

 

[RR0004]

Who does us refer to, are you posting on behalf of a group? This is the first WS thread I have seen that seeks to restrict comments and encourages those of a like mind to come and have a cozy chat about KC being innocent....any non believers are not welcome. This doesn't seem open or honest to me....sounds more like the defense scouting ideas. JMO

Well...way back when there was a Caylee is Alive thread that served the same purpose. But IIRC a bunch of folks had requested it...and good eyes...I'm really not sure who "us" is.

 

[2goldfish]

I have noted whenever this topic arises, several people come up with the thought that perhaps an accidental drowning - I would like someone to correct me if I am wrong, but I believe there was quite a thunderstorn the afternoon of june 16th 2008. I myself at the beginning thought a drowning was possible until I learned that, I just found it way too unlikely that a toddler would sneak into a swimming pool during a thunderstorm. not all kids are scared of storms but at that age they're not usually champing at the bit to get out in one, either.

 

[websurfer]

I have no doubts at all that Casey and Casey alone killed her daughter Caylee.

31 days

Not one texting message begs, asks, needs help finding CAYLEE.

She texted a lot all the time...
find one with a slight hint of reporting Caylee as having been abducted.

The car developed a rancid odor, what caused the nasty smell....
decomposing daughter Caylee.

Who was the last person known to have been with Caylee[ witnesses]
CASEY.

She was so angry at the attention Caylee got from everyone especially her parents.
Plus her new man TONY had made it very clear that CAYLEE was not wanted in their NEW relationship.

Everyone acts like she could not do this?

How many other children have been murdered and tortured to death by their parents since we have found out about this case?

I think it has become a media circus like the LIZZIE BORDEN case.

DNA & forensics have come so far since then...
but unfortunely murderers are still the same....:twocents:

 

[websurfer]

Well...way back when there was a Caylee is Alive thread that served the same purpose. But IIRC a bunch of folks had requested it...and good eyes...I'm really not sure who "us" is.

put on the united family front.
People blame Jose Baez for wanting to be the wall between Casey and her family.
He is happy to be her WORLD....so that is why there is no US in the family.

Not sure the "US" means much...
but hey a trial can change a mind...
and open new doors?
Maybe we will know what it means then? Hoping so.

 

[Whisperer]

Casey is a compulsive writer. I always wondered if she left something in writing after Caylee died.

 

[butwhatif?]

it is worth less to debate individual facts about a case, as if they exist in a vacuum. they do not.

it is not a leap, or a guess, or a gut feeling to look at all the facts and find the pattern that emerges. and when a reasonable person does that, a very clear picture of ICA surfaces.

31 days without regard for your child's disappearance, dominated by wild partying, together with lies upon lies about everything, together with the duct tape you dismiss as meaningless, make it plain who wrapped that tape around that child's head. and it wasn't the grandparents who called the cops when they discovered the truth that the child was gone, or anyone else.

but, yes, arguing each fact alone, by itself, you can overlook the truth that the many many facts present, if you care to.

but thats a personal decision.

I agree that the totality of the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming and indicative of guilt.
But I also believe that this is a very important thread that should not be met with criticism, or questions of 'motive' .Ie: is it really the DT posting here? etc.

In order to get an accurate picture of a general consensus, posters need to feel free to express their opinions and reasoning behind that. There's bound to be bias with everything we've seen and read, but I would appreciate hearing from the 'minority' or devils advocates here in preparation of what may happen with a jury at trial.
I would hate to think that we are scaring people off from posting their true feelings here for fear of attacks.
I also have concerns that we have been lulled into a possible false sense of security because the majority feel safe to speak their mind , while the minority or devils advocates don't.
While I personally think ICA is guilty ,I have played devils advocate for the last three yrs and the reaction to that stopped me from posting for several months.
It's time to be realists. To not live in our own little world where what we think is the be all and end all of the process. We have to accept that we are not the jury. That the dumps we've read will not all be admissible at trial.....that personal opinion and legal processes are two very separate issues.
IMO, this thread is not about protecting ICA from being found guilty (which has been rehashed over and over again) but about getting a REAL picture of what possible jurors may consider.
JMO