Is Terri's arrest imminent?

[Calliope]

You got that right! It was on a saturday that he went and got out of the house within 15 minutes per police request. That is why they gave him an emergency one until he could go on monday and file one and see a judge....the hearing on it will be the 22nd I think?

I really don't think they gave him an emergency RO. If one had been in place, her appearance at the gym (and request to be notified) would have been in the show cause order for the contempt charge.

 

[Calliope]

Teri knew of the restraining order on that saturday as she called 911 remember? and NO you don't have to be "informed" of an emergency restraining order and it isn't a secret, it's a law.

Truly, I don't understand where you're getting that there was a RO in place before it was ordered. I don't believe there is an 'automatic RO' law in Oregon.

 

[Calliope]

Ok, found this:

When a person files a petition under ORS 107.710 (Petition to circuit court for relief), the circuit court shall hold an ex parte hearing in person or by telephone on the day the petition is filed or on the following judicial day.

https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/107.718

He didn't file the petition until Monday, so no RO was in effect until then.

I see nothing in here stating or implying that an emergency RO goes into effect during 'off' hours.

https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/chapter/107

I'm going on no sleep, so if it's there if someone could point it out I'd appreciate it.

 

[scotslass]

IF this is the case and no arrest until Kyron is found (dead or alive) I hope an arrest is imminent as that would mean kyron Is home. Fingers crossed he is alive when it happens.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/search-kyron-horman-terri-horman-boys-disappearance/story?id=11195628

Bruce McCain, a retired captain with the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office, which is investigating Kryon's disappearance, said the case was at a crossroads and will remain that way until investigators can determine whether Kyron is dead or alive.

"Kyron is the absolute key," he told "Good Morning America." "Without Kyron's status known there probably won't be an arrest any time soon."

 

[Bathbuddys]

I really don't think they gave him an emergency RO. If one had been in place, her appearance at the gym (and request to be notified) would have been in the show cause order for the contempt charge.

um, one of the news outlets said that Kaine was trying to get her on a kidnapping charge as when she called the gym, she asked the attendant to call her if Kaine showed up so she could come and take baby K.
It was kidnapping and also the Restraining order that was sealed that she showed mr. Cook...

 

[debs]

um, one of the news outlets said that Kaine was trying to get her on a kidnapping charge as when she called the gym, she asked the attendant to call her if Kaine showed up so she could come and take Kiara.
It was kidnapping and also the Restraining order that was sealed that she showed mr. Cook...

If the restraining order had an event (Terri inquiring about Kaine and baby K) that took place PRIOR to the restraining order being served to Terri, doesn't that prove that the restraining order wasn't in place when Terri contacted the gym to inquire about Kaine?

 

[wondering1]

If the restraining order had an event (Terri inquiring about Kaine and baby K) that took place PRIOR to the restraining order being served to Terri, doesn't that prove that the restraining order wasn't in place when Terri contacted the gym to inquire about Kaine?

As I recall, it was the contempt motion that had the alleged abduction attempt and MC allegations in it, not the original RO.

eta:Here's a link, the pdf of the contempt motion is here, and the allegation is in the affidavit at around Para. 17

http://www.kmtr.com/news/local/stor...-held-in-contempt/CeL6N7ARZEOFXDe8Lr0hQA.cspx

 

[Calliope]

um, one of the news outlets said that Kaine was trying to get her on a kidnapping charge as when she called the gym, she asked the attendant to call her if Kaine showed up so she could come and take Kiara.
It was kidnapping and also the Restraining order that was sealed that she showed mr. Cook...

Please give a link to that, because I've not read anything even remotely resembling that anywhere.

If she had attempted to take baby or been within 500 feet of either Kaine OR baby while the RO was in effect, that would have been part of the show cause order by the judge. As it was, the only thing he mentions is her violating the order to keep the RO to herself.

 

[Leila]

Once an arrest is made, the clock starts ticking. If the defense exercises their right to a speedy trial, the prosecution has to have their case ready to go. And, the prosecution has to have confidence that they've got the evidence for a conviction.

Based on that, I don't think there will be an arrest until LE has some irrefutable evidence. I also don't think LE will make an arrest without finding Kyron, as anything they might have now is circumstantial evidence.

 

[BeanE]

Once an arrest is made, the clock starts ticking. If the defense exercises their right to a speedy trial, the prosecution has to have their case ready to go. And, the prosecution has to have confidence that they've got the evidence for a conviction.

Based on that, I don't think there will be an arrest until LE has some irrefutable evidence. I also don't think LE will make an arrest without finding Kyron, as anything they might have now is circumstantial evidence.

There's also another clock that starts ticking when someone is arrested, with an even shorter timeframe than the speedy trial. They have 72 hours from the time of arrest to charge someone. If the DA doesn't have the evidence to charge the person, LE has to let them go.

 

[gitana1]

I think TH will be arrested when they locate Kyron. The signs to me point to Kyron no longer being alive but I am hoping for a miracle. I am so hoping and praying that TH has stashed Kyron somewhere. Although IMO that is not probable (because it's harder for two people to keep a secret as opposed to one and because I think it would be hard to keep Kyron hidden, fed and clothed, etc., for so long), but, it is possible. Sometimes we find kids years later. Who knows? maybe TH told some boy toy of hers or some female friend or an underground organization that Kyron was being horribly abused and that since she's not the bio-mom she cannot protect him in the event of a divorce, would not be entitled to custody, etc, so he needs to be hidden. I admit, lots of flaws in that theory so not probable but I'm still hoping to see him one day come out of a police car with a huge grin on his face and huge hugs for mom and dad.

 

[gitana1]

I can't believe that 6 weeks in, we are still trying to come up with theories and grasping at straws, still don't have any more answers than we did the first weekend, really. Just lots and lots of gossip and dirt topped off with some sleazy adult-doings by TH and MC, unrelated court appearances, possible PPD,etc. It is too much for me, so I can only imagine how Kyron's mother and father and the rest of the family is managing.

I don't think Terri will be arrested for charges relating to Kyron very soon. Whether she will be arrested for something else, who knows. I think with the 60-days to trial rule in Oregon, LE is going to have to wait until they have everything they need, as the defense is not likely to give them extra months to dig around if the initial case is weak.

I am going to take a self-imposed vacation from this case, for at least a day or two, unless some real news breaks. I'll be in the Game Room or the Pet Corner, someplace that makes sense to me. My health has been really lousy lately and worse this past week, and I think way too much about what could have happened to Kyron. I probably won't be able to stop my brain, but can give it somewhat of a rest.

Get well soon Cluciano! But rest assured, I think lots of things are going on constantly to solve this case. Also, I do not think the court proceedings so far are unrelated. They are very related and may add the pressure needed to get someone to slip up and reveal something that can lead us to Kyron. I'm going to go to bed and think of Kyron coming home alive tonight. Maybe if we all do that, it will actually happen.

 

[gitana1]

???

Even his own attorney says this happened prior to service. I don't see where there was an 'automatic' restraining order in place before a judge ordered it so; I'm not sure such a thing even exists.

It does.

Ok, found this:


https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/107.718

He didn't file the petition until Monday, so no RO was in effect until then.

I see nothing in here stating or implying that an emergency RO goes into effect during 'off' hours.

https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/chapter/107

I'm going on no sleep, so if it's there if someone could point it out I'd appreciate it.

There are emergency protective orders that LE can issue without court approval, that generally last until the courts are open. However, there is nothing that I have seen reported anywhere to suggest Kaine received one of these. Th is not in contempt for trying to take her baby from the gym because she likely did not know of any order at that time and Kaine did not cite it as a contempt count. I believe he merely made it known in order to illustrate that TH can be deceptive and that she has it in her to surreptitiously take a child. Regardless of the fact that she is the baby K's mom and had the right to her custody, the fact that she did not seek LE assistance, or the assistance of the court, or even confronted Kaine directly and demanded her child, points to something about her mindset and capabilities. She could have seen the way things were going with Kaine and decided that she would punish him further while at the same time escaping this mess by killing herself and the baby. This kind of thing si not that rare, unfortunately.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Oh god, you just made me think of John Mark Karr, or his new female identity.

I haven't been following him since he dropped out of the JonBenet Ramsey case. It sounds like he continues to lead an interesting life.

Going to Asia to get a new chance at life is an old, old tradition. There are grave finds in Sweden of Viking era (pre 1000 ce) clothing trimmed with silk bands cut from silk woven in China more than a thousand years previously. In other words, the silk trim was woven 2000 years or more ago.

Someone went to China and brought that fabric to Sweden. I wouldn't be surprised if the trader who did it, did it in part because he was facing a difficult situation at home, one where going away for a number of years might have seemed like a very good idea...

 

[GrainneDhu]

Here's what I don't get -- Supposedly the ro hadn't been issued yet. She claims to have been blind-sided about it and Kaine moving out, right? That means she knew nothing of the divorce or Kaines knowledge of the m-f-h plot and the affair accusations. In her mind all was well, right? Why was she sneakily looking for him at the gym and asking to be notified when he was there? If she had no ill-intentions, then just what exactly was she doing?

KH moved out Saturday with baby K while TMH was out of the house being interviewed by LE. She came back, KH and baby K were gone, then the unsuccessful sting operation took place. She called 911 about the sting.

Later that same Saturday, she apparently realised that it wasn't a matter of KH just taking baby K out to visit with friends or whatever. She called 911 and it was classified as a custody call.

By that time, it's clear that she knew something was up. The attempted sting alone would have been warning.

That she chose not to air her dirty linen with some random reporter who showed up on her doorstep Monday does not indicate guilt to my mind. It just indicates that she chose to do what literally millions of other people would choose: decline to air her troubles to strangers who have no need to know them.

If TMH is factually innocent, then to her mind she had as much right for custody of baby K as KH does. From her point of view, he snuck off with baby K.

There is no way of knowing exactly what she intended when she asked the clerk at the gym to let her know when KH and baby K were there. Yes, she may have intended to take baby K. Or she may have intended to check on baby K's well being and talk to KH about what was going on.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that TMH was planning to take baby K from the gym while KH was distracted by working out. At that point in time, she was in the same position, legally, that KH was in. There was no order about custody in place and KH had just walked off with baby K. If she intended to do the same thing, then that makes her as innocent or guilty as KH.

 

[GrainneDhu]

an emergency restraining order doesn't have to be served as it wouldnt be an emergency RO if it had to be. It is to protect until business hours

SBM

But an emergency restraining order surely must be filed before it goes into effect!

Otherwise, anyone could claim that they had a temporary restraining order against anyone.

What would stop me under the circumstances you posit from proclaiming that I had an emergency restraining order forbidding you to post on WebSleuths? I decided that your posts are full of secret encoded messages that threaten my well being (see the David Letterman case), so I'e decided I have a temporary restraining order against you.

Even in the Letterman case, the petitioner had to file the motion.

I just don't see how imaginary or unfiled restraining orders can be enforced.

... and if they can be, then remember that there may be one against you right now.

 

[GrainneDhu]

What good does it do the case if she is arrested for attempting kidnapping on the baby? I don't think the case would hold up and she would be out of jail soon enough and it would not help find Kyron. I don't think LE wants her in jail just to have her in jail. In Oregon, where they seem to have to bring the case to trial so quickly, they don't want to show what they have on Terri before they are ready.

BBM

It's not just Oregon. Every state has requirements for speedy trials because it is a constitutional right, the sixth amendment:

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

The speedy trial part is often waived but that is strictly up to the defendant. No prosecutor can decide on the defendant's behalf to waive a speedy trial.

 

[cluciano63]

BBM

It's not just Oregon. Every state has requirements for speedy trials because it is a constitutional right, the sixth amendment:



The speedy trial part is often waived but that is strictly up to the defendant. No prosecutor can decide on the defendant's behalf to waive a speedy trial.

I know about the speedy trial, but I don't think it is 60 days in every state? That seems very short.

PS- It is 6 months where I live.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

BBM

It's not just Oregon. Every state has requirements for speedy trials because it is a constitutional right, the sixth amendment:

The speedy trial part is often waived but that is strictly up to the defendant. No prosecutor can decide on the defendant's behalf to waive a speedy trial.

This is what happens IRL. The defendant has a right to a speedy trial, which he can waive, and will do if his lawyer advises it to help his defense. Most of the time, it is to the benefit of the defendant that he waive his right to a speedy trial in order for the defense to have enough time to thoroughly prepare for that trial.

Without a waiver, the clock ticks along, but it is stopped when certain events occur (exceptions to the right to a speedy trial). Many times, the exceptions swallow the rule, because the delays are for reasons the government can justify to the judge.

The courts are overcrowded now -- I imagine they would implode if every defendant stood on his right to a speedy trial, and the government never had a justifiable reason to stop the ticking clock.

The right to a speedy trial is not an issue in most cases.

 

[eyes4crime]

From GrainneDhu's post above:

BBM
The sixth Amendment....

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

That questionnaire sent out by LE always bothered me. imo

If Terri ever goes to trial for charges regarding missing Kyron, wonder if Houze will argue the 6th amendment regarding 'right to a trial by an impartial jury'? Wonder if he could argue that the questionnaire with pictures of Terri, the white truck, and Kyron all over the internet makes it impossible for an impartial jury?

I'm by no means a lawyer, but if I was, pretty sure I would argue that point. moo