Is TH Responsible in any way for the Disappearance of Kyron? **NO DISCUSSION**

[joshiesmom]

Snowball, you said something very important about remembering your day: "Maybe my account is initially muddled //"

So, you tell cops your story. But, being in shock and "muddled", you forget that you stopped by the shoe store, or the farmer's market, or, or ,or. Or you did things in a different order, or your "to do" list said one thing but you did another.

So, later, your cellphone pings don't match up with what you said. Or someone says "hey, I saw her at the library dropping books in the slot at 2 p.m." and you told the cops you went to the big box store at about 1 p.m. and spent 2 hours there. Whatever.

Then LE tells you that you're lying. And then they start hammering on you because "if you're lying about this" what else are you lying to us about? Why didn't you tell us when you were at the library? Because it's only a block away from where Mr. Smith, your ex-husband, was killed?"

You can say "oops, I forgot, I did run by the library on the way to the store and just drove up by the drop box" but the damage is already done. There are inconsistencies in your story and you've lied to police--in their world.

I know this is 100% true. After I told a teacher about my brother molesting me, I had police (with a CPS worker, too ~ all male, I might add) come to my school every day for a couple of weeks to pull me out of class and talk to me about the abuse. They wanted details: days it occurred, times, locations, positions, circumstances surrounding each incident, what I was wearing, what my brother was wearing, conversation, etc. I was almost-15 years old and the abuse had taken place over 7 YEARS. I did my best with giving them the details they asked for. When I was giving my deposition, I added in some information that I'd remembered about a particular incident and was immediately accused of lying because I hadn't "mentioned" that information previously.

What I learned from this experience was to always be able to prove what I say is true because the fact is that once you say something, trying to change your story is perceived as lying even if you're being completely honest.

Kat010, I agree 100% with what you're saying.

 

[LadyL]

I think a lot of us are trying to apply our logic to something illogical. It doesn't make sense that a child disappears and it makes even less sense that a parent would be responsible. Therefore it's difficult, if not impossible, to fit these circumstances into a framework that we can understand.

So, what are we left with. How can we theorize about something that we can't understand? Well, we try to make the puzzle pieces fit. Someone really smart here had a post about forcing pieces to fit where they don't belong. (I wish I could find it to link to it and thank you to whoever it was). It's natural to try to do that when we're frustrated.

What if, though, the circumstances aren't within our framework of experience and there's no way we will ever understand or make sense of it? It's something I think a lot of us will have to accept if Kyron is found.

Anyway, this is my long-winded way of saying that I believe TH 'disappeared' Kyron. Much of it doesn't make sense right now but there are enough strange occurences that point to her IMO.

Why would she do it? Um, because she's probably a psychopath? There will never be a reason that will satisfy us - no reason will ever be understandable.

JMO MOO

 

[cakegirl0905]

I see your points.
I have a question about the truck. Did she ask to use the truck for some purpose and then not use it for that reason? If I were up to no good, I think I probably would not do that. It seems too obvious and fishy

Also, people do bizarre things under stress and emergencies and tragedies etc You and I wouldnt be texting sexting in that horrific scenario, but people do things to distract them. Not saying that's why she did it bc IDK why, but that's just it, IDK; and just bc *I* wouldnt do it doesnt mean that folks dont do it. I did not say that very well.

But I do see what you're saying.

moo

I think she said she was using it because she had to pick up the exhibit? But then (according to the tape) she didn't? Help me out here y'all.

 

[STEADFAST]

Snowball, you said something very important about remembering your day: "Maybe my account is initially muddled //"

So, you tell cops your story. But, being in shock and "muddled", you forget that you stopped by the shoe store, or the farmer's market, or, or ,or. Or you did things in a different order, or your "to do" list said one thing but you did another.

So, later, your cellphone pings don't match up with what you said. Or someone says "hey, I saw her at the library dropping books in the slot at 2 p.m." and you told the cops you went to the big box store at about 1 p.m. and spent 2 hours there. Whatever.

Then LE tells you that you're lying. And then they start hammering on you because "if you're lying about this" what else are you lying to us about? Why didn't you tell us when you were at the library? Because it's only a block away from where Mr. Smith, your ex-husband, was killed?"

You can say "oops, I forgot, I did run by the library on the way to the store and just drove up by the drop box" but the damage is already done. There are inconsistencies in your story and you've lied to police--in their world.

I think the problem arises at the point where when the police point out something like how you were seen at the library or how your cell pings point to a certain location, you keep denying you were there. That's where the real damage is done.
I could see cell pings maybe being wrong, but not bank records or store receipts. I find it hard to believe that Terri would be in one or more places, but ALL the outside indicators of where she was -- cell pings, bank records, store receipts, etc -- point to something different. (I don't know that they do; I'm just saying that it's not simply a matter of remembering, not being able to clear up what she was doing that day.)

 

[nursebeeme]

Snowball, you said something very important about remembering your day: "Maybe my account is initially muddled //"

So, you tell cops your story. But, being in shock and "muddled", you forget that you stopped by the shoe store, or the farmer's market, or, or ,or. Or you did things in a different order, or your "to do" list said one thing but you did another.

So, later, your cellphone pings don't match up with what you said. Or someone says "hey, I saw her at the library dropping books in the slot at 2 p.m." and you told the cops you went to the big box store at about 1 p.m. and spent 2 hours there. Whatever.

Then LE tells you that you're lying. And then they start hammering on you because "if you're lying about this" what else are you lying to us about? Why didn't you tell us when you were at the library? Because it's only a block away from where Mr. Smith, your ex-husband, was killed?"

You can say "oops, I forgot, I did run by the library on the way to the store and just drove up by the drop box" but the damage is already done. There are inconsistencies in your story and you've lied to police--in their world.

that all makes sense... but why walk out of the interview/LDT?

 

[Snowball58]

One more thing I want to add is that there is a big difference between the shock of your child missing from school and the adrenaline pumping through your veins if you are responsible for whatever happened and are trying to cover your tracks and are being questioned about your whereabouts in great detail - perhaps a level of detail you didn't anticipate. Seems KH, DY and TY were in the same boat as TH, yet it appears they have satisfied LE about their whereabouts that day. I'd say they were under tremendous strain and shock too.

 

[Donjeta]

The truck isn't conclusive to me because DY says that she thought Terri was going to stay until the end of the science fair, (about 10 am I suppose), and she could have intended to pick up the project and take it home with her then. But sometimes people do have innocent reasons for not being able to do what they planned. Say, if she got the runs or the baby was sick and just cried all the time and she thought it was better to leave and come back for the project later. (These are just examples of innocent reasons to leave before you planned; neither seem very likely to me if she went grocery shopping instead of straight home.)

 

[Pondering Mind]

You are 100% right. I own a business that generates a-lot of cash. Years ago there was a rash of hold-ups throughout our City. LE held a class for the businesses to help them cope during and after a hold-up. We were given tips such as place a tape on the door so when the perp leaves you at least can give the height of that person. They said that 99% of the people cannot remember details after a dramatic event such as a hold-up.

Of course there were those macho people that said they wouldn't give in if they were held up but the LE giving the course said "just be happy with yourself if you don't pee your pants." Meaning that you can say you will remember or that you will not give in but when it happens it's a whole totally different story.

bbm~
Ain't that the truth?! I was robbed @ gunpoint while at work a little over a year ago. It happened so fast and I all could concentrate on was a gun in my face. The 2 guys were caught after about 2 hours following a police chase across town, but it certainly wasn't because of my description. I ALWAYS thought that I would be more aware IF something like this happened, but flunked miserably. I had the height about right.. and knew that they both had something like a doo-rag on their head and those dang GOLD teeth that the azzhole w/the gun had. I'll never forget that gold 'grille'..:sick:..but was totally wrong on what they were wearing when I looked back @ the video. I would have sworn that both had on dark screen printed shirts of some kind and one did, but the other guy was wearing pink!..how'd I miss that!?..

 

[Cher352]

All this talk about remembering make me start thinking about what I did today.

Today I meet my DH for lunch at a place about 30-35 min from the house. Now I remember I was suppose to meet him at 11:30 and I know I was about 10 min early and had to wait on him to arrive. Once he got there we had to wait on a couple of other people to join us.

Now as to what time we actually went into the restaurant and what time we came out I don't know exactly...did seem like a long lunch but no one was on any time constraints. I can't remember what time I actually got home and I did stop at the post office. When I got home I know I was off and on this board stopping several times to do some chores, it did rain for a while and now it is a little after 4PM.

Now if something happened to my DH or son and I had to account for my time today I would be hard pressed to accurately tell when any of things occurred. All I know for sure was I was arrived at the restaurant around 11:20-11:25 and I am sure we were there more than an hour maybe two and it is now just after 4. I don't remember what time I was at the PO or what time it rained, I could be off by as much as an hour. I can't even say for sure what time I got up this morning. By tomorrow I probably would not have remember what time I was posting this.

That is part of the problem with trying to get accurate time lines. Unless you have sometime like a job or an appt or something that makes you look to the clock your day tends to just blend together. Try it...try to remember exactly when everything happened today (and no fair if you have a job with specific start, quit and lunch time...LOL!) And please... don't tell me that I am the only one....please!

 

[Snowball58]

The truck isn't conclusive to me because DY says that she thought Terri was going to stay until the end of the science fair, (about 10 am I suppose), and she could have intended to pick up the project and take it home with her then. But sometimes people do have innocent reasons for not being able to do what they planned. Say, if she got the runs or the baby was sick and just cried all the time and she thought it was better to leave and come back for the project later. (These are just examples of innocent reasons to leave before you planned; neither seem very likely to me if she went grocery shopping instead of straight home.)

And then took sick baby to the gym.

 

[Patty G]

that all makes sense... but why walk out of the interview/LDT?

Did LE ever state Terri walked out of the interview OR has it only come from Kaine?

 

[KopDog]

Did LE ever state Terri walked out of the interview OR has it only come from Kaine?

even if it did come from LE - if you were truly innocent and this is your 2nd or 3rd polygraph, with the same ridiculous questions, over and over and over....you could say, I have had it, your wasting my time, start looking for the reason perp.

Or she is guilty and couldn't stand the heat.

We don't know.

 

[Patty G]

What do we know as FACT in this case that has directly come out of LE's mouth besides that Kryon is missing and was at school at some point and Terri brought him to school and took a photo of Kyron?

 

[21merc7]

What do we know as FACT in this case that has directly come out of LE's mouth besides that Kryon is missing and was at school at some point and Terri brought him to school and took a photo of Kyron?

Yep, these are the only FACTS we know.

 

[Patty G]

even if it did come from LE - if you were truly innocent and this is your 2nd or 3rd polygraph, with the same ridiculous questions, over and over and over....you could say, I have had it, your wasting my time, start looking for the reason perp.

Or she is guilty and couldn't stand the heat.

We don't know.

It would matter for sure if it came from LE, but it hasn't.

 

[Patty G]

yep, these are the only facts we know.

bingo!

 

[T-Rex]

You know the old saying, "When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras"? Well, at first, it seemed like LE was trying to make the case for Terri riding a horse. But when facts didn't support that, instead of looking for another horse rider, they looked for Terri on a zebra.

 

[Susan10]

Okay, I am ready for the slings and arrows. I definitely think she is involved in this. But I do understand people who want more proof.

I keep thinking about the "toxic cloud," as Emma so aptly put it, that was created by the way Terri and Kaine's relationship started. I think it is possible Desiree has not been a hands-on parent with Kyron, due to her illness and her frustration with standing up to Kaine. I soooo wish she did not live in Medford. I think it's possible Kyron would still be at home. But how could she know it would lead to this?

Anyway, back to Terri. I think she has a personality disorder of some kind, probably borderline personality disorder, and is not emotionally attached to either of her children. She is emotionally attached to the opinions of others. She needs constant attention, and caring for children is a selfless job that requires putting someone else's needs before your own. We have lots of examples of this, but the most recent is Kaine saying in the interview that Baby K was playing in her room when he came home. Huh? A child that age playing alone in her room?

I still believe that LE is encouraging, or at least allowing, the family to call out people who have information. It would be so easy for the sheriff to come out, for example, in yesterday's press conference, and say, "We understand Kaine and Desiree's frustration. They are missing their little boy. We have asked them not to comment on the investigation. Please understand that their comments are not coming from us."

I do think someone else is involved also. Although Terri is capable of filching friends' gin and vodka on her own, I don't think she is smart enough and self-controlled enough to manage a kidnapping or murder and the ensuing activity on her own. Accident or premeditated? I don't know. I think, as I have from the very beginning, that it was either an accident or she had help with the planning to get Kyron from the school. I believe somebody might even have taken him from the school...

There's more, but I know I have written a lot of speculation that feels "gut right" to me that others will not find acceptable.

If am wrong about this, I am very angry at LE for telling the parents of Skyline that their kids are safe in that school.

my bold above

If it was her, your point is proven. She hasn't been smart enough or self-controlled enough to pull it off. ITA.

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

I have serious doubts about Terri being involved in and responsible for Kyron's disappearance, and here are a few of the reasons why --

The more Desiree and Kaine talk, the more I believe LE probably has very little evidence against Terri and, in some cases, I wonder if the "evidence" was manipulated in a legal way by LE in an effort to extract a confession from Terri. I'm thinking specifically about the LDT, especially in light of LE's recent comments pointing out the LDTs are used as tools. There was an air of backtracking and distancing in their statement, IMHO. If Terri told LE she was driving baby K around Portland to soothe an earache, I admit the alibi sounds weak. The thing is, the alibi is plausible, IMHO. I know people who use rides in the car to soothe their children; it's a very popular way to soothe children in Hollywood films. It's not unheard of or all that unusual, IMHO. It's only weak because it's not verifiable, but it's still plausible. Perhaps LE was less than truthful about results of the LDT because they didn't believe her alibi. There are reasonable explanations for Terri's behavior that day, though, especially if you believe baby K is probably teething which explains why she'd drive around, not go to the doctor, and would go to the gym. Babies are amazingly resilient, and can go from fussy to fine and vice versa, very, very quickly.

If LE had a solid case, in the press conferences, Desiree wouldn't rely so much on her mothering instincts and what I believe are superficial inconsistencies. The more Desiree talks, the more apparent it becomes that she's held a grudge against Terri for years, and regardless of whether or not the grudge is warranted, it's going to influence and perhaps even shape her opinions about Terri's behavior. Desiree was very vocal about Kyron crying and wanting to live with her and Tony, and the inference was that Terri was somehow responsible for Kyron's unhappiness, but then we found out that Kyron cried when he went to Desiree's. DY and KH later admitted he was having difficulty transitioning. The facts present a completely different situation, but the press and a lot of the public will never read that Kyron cried when he left Terri and Kaine and had to visit Desiree, only that "missing boy cried when he had to go home to stepmother!" or whatever other salacious headline is used.

There are a lot of accusations, a lot of implications, that are slowly being clarified or eaten away at, IMHO. And, IMHO, when you get to the root of why Desiree believes Terri is responsible, it's because Desiree has instincts and Terri didn't behave and react in the way Desiree thought she should.

LE has no evidence of a murder scene. None. Terri is not some hardened criminal with years of experience in pulling off crimes such as this one. If Terri is responsible, she abducted and murdered a child she'd raised for most of his life. Her biological children were attached to this child. She was married to this child's father. Killing him, seeing his lifeless, perhaps bloody body, discarding him somehow, all with her daughter nearby, is unfathomable to me, especially since she then carried on in a completely normal fashion, totally calm, acting in character, for the rest of the day. And, then, there's no physical evidence. None in the truck. None on her clothes. None in the house. After forty years of living a normal life, she's able to pull off this crime leaving behind no physical evidence, carrying on about her day, going to the gym, arriving home, sending e-mails to Desiree, posting pictures on Facebook (and it's interesting to note that Terri didn't rush right home and post the pictures to establish some sort of alibi, she posted them hours later).

As much as some are hopeful, I think most would admit it's unlikely Kyron is alive. Hell, I'm hopeful, but I believe it's highly improbable that Kyron is alive. If he's dead and Terri killed him, there should be evidence even without a body, IMHO.

Thank you, Cypress! You have expressed beautifully my feelings. My hands thank for saving me all the typing!

 

[Aedrys]

My gut tells me she's guilty, and my gut is usually not wrong.

That being said, without definitive proof, I feel like I'm constantly going up to bat for my position...and then realizing I don't have a bat to hit a point out of the ballpark with. It sucks, and I really don't like it. So I believe she's guilty for a lot of the reasons people have already talked about, but those reasons can't get her convicted in a court of law.

On another note, Dede really, really, REALLY needs to get her darn immunity and talk! I have a feeling what she might know may finally be something concrete that ties Terri to the crime. But she's smug and wanting her immunity before she says anything. It just better be worth the immunity, that's all I'm saying.

I also want to comment on the memory thing. A child going missing is a hugely traumatic event. It's akin, in my mind, to what happened on Sept. 11, 2001. I can still recall in great detail my entire day that day. It is something I will never forget as long as I live. Why? Because my physical safety and mortality was in dire question for the first time in my entire life. I didn't feel safe at all. I felt frightened, confused, vulnerable, and shocked and stunned that this could actually happen.

I think that feeling is similar to losing a child. These parents, even if they are shock, probably felt incredibly vulnerable and frightened for Kyron's physical safety. They probably felt confused as they don't know where he is or who really has him (they have suspicions, yes, but that doesn't totally quiet that nagging voice in the back of their mind that it might NOT be Terri. That is too frightening to even consider). They are stunned this could happen to them, shocked it happened to them, and frightened that they'll never get him back. Of course they are going to be able recall in detail everything they did that day. Every where they were, everything that happened because they care about him and love him, and every second of that last day he was seen is probably etched in their minds forever. Obviously, they rememebered enough to not be suspicious of the police, or they would be the ones in the hot seat right now, not Terri.

The fact that Terri couldn't remember tells me she didn't care near as much for Kyron's physical safety, that this day is not etched in her mind at all, and if she is innocent, she's made the huge mistake of being so emotionless about a missing little boy. She wasn't traumatized by him being missing, or she would have been able to call up every detail of that day and not have a timeline that doesn't add up. I know memory is not perfect, but there are those things that get etched in your memory forever, and I would think having a child go missing is one of them.

I think it's mostly the fact that the only thing she appears to care about in this case is herself and tending to her needs that leads me to believe she did something to him. Because like Casey, he was in her way for some reason, or she wanted to use him to specifically hurt someone, and to do that she had to get rid of him, and so she did, and just washed her hands of it. He wasn't important, he's gone, move on and don't look back. With an attitude like that, it's no wonder she's looking so guilty for what happened to Kyron. Shoot, she doesn't even seem to care one bit for her biological children. What category does that put Kyron in then?

Finally, I don't think you have to be smart to get away with a murder. Look at the Croslins in Florida. You're going to tell me the group of them has the IQ to murder a child and hide her body? But yet somehow they did. And I do think Terri had help as well, probably from BFF Dede. I just don't know for sure until what Dede knows comes out.

But again, I have no solid evidence. I can't go up to bat on this. And if my gut is wrong, and the police are wrong, and another child goes missing from Skyline, God help us all.