Is TH Responsible in any way for the Disappearance of Kyron? **NO DISCUSSION**

[citigirl]

I think a lot of us are trying to apply our logic to something illogical. It doesn't make sense that a child disappears and it makes even less sense that a parent would be responsible. Therefore it's difficult, if not impossible, to fit these circumstances into a framework that we can understand.

So, what are we left with. How can we theorize about something that we can't understand? Well, we try to make the puzzle pieces fit. Someone really smart here had a post about forcing pieces to fit where they don't belong. (I wish I could find it to link to it and thank you to whoever it was). It's natural to try to do that when we're frustrated.

What if, though, the circumstances aren't within our framework of experience and there's no way we will ever understand or make sense of it? It's something I think a lot of us will have to accept if Kyron is found.

Anyway, this is my long-winded way of saying that I believe TH 'disappeared' Kyron. Much of it doesn't make sense right now but there are enough strange occurences that point to her IMO.

Why would she do it? Um, because she's probably a psychopath? There will never be a reason that will satisfy us - no reason will ever be understandable.

JMO MOO

I'm with you on this. But my experience includes contact with two women who had borderline personality disorder (diagnosed) and a close family member who is a sociopath (diagnosed). And Terri's behavior follows the same kinds of patterns I have seen with them. Desiree's does not. Desiree's behavior makes sens to me.

I am not a clinician, so I cannot diagnose Terri, and a clinician could not diagnose Terri from what he reads about her on the internet, but Terri's behavior makes sense only when I can recollect what these other women have done.

 

[Bethlamb16]

Hi all. I have been following this case very closely and for whatever reason I am obsessed with it. I am on the fence but what I can't figure out is if TH did it, why didn't she have her ablibi more wrapped up. Also, why didn't she make sure someone at the school saw her leave alone so that she wouldn't be a suspect. Everyone knows the first suspects in a case like this are the parents/step-parents so it seems to me that she would have been smarter in having a rock-solid alibi ready as well as making sure she was seen leaving the school without Kyron, otherwise, she was really dumb if she did this. Just my opinion but would be interested to know what others think about her not being ready with her alibi, etc. This is the main thing that keeps me on the fence that she didn't do it.

 

[TxLady2]

See, I know I couldn't do that. I mean, I could say what I did, but I'd probably forget to add a couple mundane things, and I know I couldn't tell the times for everything.

A person doesn't realize at 8am that something terrible is going to happen at 4pm and therefore they catalog every moment in that day. I personally don't look at the clock every time I visit the bathroom or change a diaper or even make lunch. I could give generalities ~ ie; in the morning, I got a phone call, checked my email & watched a movie, but I know I could not give exact timeframes for when I was doing each activity.

And I can tell you this, when LE is questioning someone about what they did a certain day, after they go over it once, then they will say, "Let's go over that day again", then they will purposely skip around. That helps them to decide if the person is lying. If they can remember details when jumping from 8 am down to 5 pm, then back up to noon, and back and forth, then they are telling the truth. If they have trouble remembering details unless they are in order... LE knows they're having trouble remembering the script.
And heaven forbid if they get a few details wrong... then they start hammering... "We know you were at such-and-such...you lied about that, what else are you lying about?"

 

[BeanE]

What do we know as FACT in this case that has directly come out of LE's mouth besides that Kryon is missing and was at school at some point and Terri brought him to school and took a photo of Kyron?

That Terri was the last known person to see him before he disappeared.

That he was never seen leaving the school.

That there have been about 3,300 tips.

hmmmm... that's about it.

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

I am definitely not convinced TH did this but if all the rumors are true then I definitely would not be surprised to see that she did. The problem I am having is that the rumors have been highly publicized with hardly any type of actual confirmation from LE.

Even the statements from TH herself about the LDT and the pings may not accurate. LE are known to lie to a suspect about these type things in order to try to get them to confess.

So in essence I really dislike the way LE is handling this whole case. No info from LE and they are letting the press and Kyrons parents run rampant with only a couple short written disclaimers here and there about the info not coming from them. If LE knows something being said out there in the media is either true or false I wish they would state it in a public forum so that people could help. The way it is now no one is even looking at anything out of the ordinary unless it has to do with TH.

And I guess that is my biggest fear; that TH is not the guilty party and because I feel LE has only focused on her all these weeks then the trail is probably too cold to find the real culprit.

I agree.

This is something that also has occurred to me, MOO. I wonder if LE hasn't felt pressure since day one to make sure that whatever happened to Kyron, doesn't have anything to do with the schools. It is apparent from reading the various articles in this case - well I mean, I read the articles and I have a big tendency to start ready other news on the page - I do this in most cases, and then find myself asking myself, why on earth am I reading local Whatever City news when it has nothing to do with either the case or my life, but, I do, all the time. From reading it is apparent that there are money issues in Portland, and Oregon, just like there are all over right now. One thing I have seen is the Portland schools are having trouble, to the point that they nearly eliminated Physical Education from all schools. So, I guess I just started wondering, what if the PTB put pressure on LE to make it anything but something we are liable for.

Again, just MOO.

 

[angelmom]

One more thing I want to add is that there is a big difference between the shock of your child missing from school and the adrenaline pumping through your veins if you are responsible for whatever happened and are trying to cover your tracks and are being questioned about your whereabouts in great detail - perhaps a level of detail you didn't anticipate. Seems KH, DY and TY were in the same boat as TH, yet it appears they have satisfied LE about their whereabouts that day. I'd say they were under tremendous strain and shock too.

It's a lot easier to account for your day when you are at work, with witnesses and security cameras and computer log ins, and maybe even ID passes that have to be swiped and log the time. Terri's witness is a 20 month old baby. Mine is usually the dog. No help.

What do we know as FACT in this case that has directly come out of LE's mouth besides that Kryon is missing and was at school at some point and Terri brought him to school and took a photo of Kyron?

I think that about covers it. Oh, and the reward is now $50K.

 

[tiredblondy]

I have been catching up and just read "nooner amore". I will never forget that and what a great description.

Do we have a thread here at Websleuths for words like that that have been coined here during a case? If so "nooner amore " definitely needs to be added.

For what it's worth I found my Dad deceased one evening at his house(natural causes) and I can still tell you everything I did that morning and early afternoon before I found him.

 

[TxLady2]

Finally, I don't think you have to be smart to get away with a murder. Look at the Croslins in Florida. You're going to tell me the group of them has the IQ to murder a child and hide her body? But yet somehow they did. And I do think Terri had help as well, probably from BFF Dede. I just don't know for sure until what Dede knows comes out.

But again, I have no solid evidence. I can't go up to bat on this. And if my gut is wrong, and the police are wrong, and another child goes missing from Skyline, God help us all.

snipped for space.
BBM

Whoa!!
I didn't know anyone had been charged with Haleigh's murder yet, much less convicted.
I musta missed something.

 

[Kimster]

I have been catching up and just read "nooner amore". I will never forget that and what a great description.

Do we have a thread here at Websleuths for words like that that have been coined here during a case? If so "nooner amore " definitely needs to be added.

For what it's worth I found my Dad deceased one evening at his house(natural causes) and I can still tell you everything I did that morning and early afternoon before I found him.

The Jury Room would be a fun place for a WS coined phrase thread.

BTW, I'm enjoying the discussion and appreciate the tone of the thread. Carry on! :grouphug:

 

[tiredblondy]

We also know for a fact that an RO was issued by a judge based on statements presented to him.

We also know for a fact that Terri has hired a criminal defense attorney.

 

[tehcloser]

snipped for space.
BBM

Whoa!!
I didn't know anyone had been charged with Haleigh's murder yet, much less convicted.
I musta missed something.

Thank You.

 

[cluciano63]

Hi all. I have been following this case very closely and for whatever reason I am obsessed with it. I am on the fence but what I can't figure out is if TH did it, why didn't she have her ablibi more wrapped up. Also, why didn't she make sure someone at the school saw her leave alone so that she wouldn't be a suspect. Everyone knows the first suspects in a case like this are the parents/step-parents so it seems to me that she would have been smarter in having a rock-solid alibi ready as well as making sure she was seen leaving the school without Kyron, otherwise, she was really dumb if she did this. Just my opinion but would be interested to know what others think about her not being ready with her alibi, etc. This is the main thing that keeps me on the fence that she didn't do it.

Hi, this is part of my problem too. Some seem to believe she is a master criminal with a complex and devious plan, yet...no real alibi? Oddball, possibly guilty behavior afterward? No known attempt to defend herself? It is hard to reconcile all of this with a woman whom a lot of posters and public believe constructed a detailed plot, possibly involving others. Her alleged murder plot with the landscaper sure does not sound too sophisicated, sounds more like, hey wanna make some money, kind of thing. I am very conflicted but not sold on guilt, that is for sure. At first I thought there was no way another adult could have removed Kyron but I no longer think that.

 

[Donjeta]

It's not a fact from LE but if Terri really paid her lawyer a retainer fee of 350.000 dollars it raises some questions about her level of involvement IMO. I can't really see anybody coughing up that much money for an attorney before being charged for anything unless they're very rich or very certain they're going to be charged and very worried that they might be convicted and that would likely be because of serious problems with their story and the evidence they know LE has.

There may be lots of innocent people who bankrupted themselves or their family with attorney fees even before they are charged with anything but I think that on average guilty people may tend to be more gravely concerned about being charged and convicted. Not conclusive evidence, but if true it shows that she is worried that there might be evidence against her, IMO, something beyond her family members speaking ill of her.

 

[seeking truth]

This is strange to me too. Look, she knows that in a matter of an hour or so, the is about to hit the fan - and she's just dawdling on the computer? Even a half-way normal person would have nervous energy - be cleaning the house, working outside, doing something active, and that's even if she were somewhat, ugh, "happy" about it.

Well, we are all different in how we handle stress.

And, there are human beings who do not FEEL stress. Sad, but true. Along with the lack of being stressed, comes the lack of what could cause stress: A conscience, and the traits associated with people who are in possession of one:

Guilt, worry, remorse, compassion, EMPATHY (the ability to put oneself in another's place and actually FEEL what they are feeling), to name some of them.

She actually COULD have been nervous, in her own way, and being on the computer was a way to alleviate that nervousness, along with creating all kinds of alibis:

*email to Kyron's teacher

*emails to Kyron's mother, Desiree (Terri's changing the "flavor" of them is a huge give-away and a peek inside Terri's psyche that day, to my way of seeing).

*Posting photos from that morning's science fair. Whatever else she did on facebook and the internet, before following Kaine down to the bus to find that Kyron was not on it.

*doing what Kaine was (possibly and probably) used to seeing her doing this time of day.

I definitely believe that Terri harmed Kyron. I believe he died that morning for whatever selfish and unbalanced reason Terri had. Due to the Doctor appointment diversion/mix-up, which I believe was definitely planned by Terri, in order to have hours of time when no one was concerned about Kyron's whereabouts, this was premeditated. Asking Kaine for the truck that morning fits with her premeditation.

All the things she did, including what she has claimed to have been doing (such as driving a sick baby around aimlessly instead of taking her to the doctor or home, along with then taking same sick baby to the gym) that day point to her guilt, in my opinion. Her behavior since points to her guilt. These things, and much more, support the strong belief I have that this woman is in a small league of her own.

Note: I get what many here are saying, that if this was so well planned (premeditated), if Terri was cunning enough to do this, then why all the mistakes? All I can say to that is: No one said that this woman is intelligent. She could just be evil, or whatever word we choose to describe the indescribably horrible acts that human beings perpetrate upon one another. I think her ego and her self-interest, along with the fact that it appears she has gotten away with a deceptive lifestyle for a very long time, caused her to believe she could do this horrible thing. Not only that, it looks like she was also going to try and pin it on the school. She fails to show ANY emotion, any of what we would expect from an innocent step-parent and wife.

To answer my own question above, I have seen nothing that points to her being innocent of Kyron's "disappearance." Nada, zip, and zero.

THESE ARE MY OPINIONS.

 

[Emeralgem]

Thank You. I have been there since day 1. And NO ONE knows if it was the Croslins or not.

O/T...I didn't join WS until March 2009 but I know the Croslins didn't kill Haleigh...And IMHO that is not just my opinion but fact....JMO

 

[kant]

Kind of like forgetting that your hired someone to kill your husband? Trust me, if she can sit there and say well, I did this from this time, and that from that time...then she can fill in the in betweens as well.. no doubt in my mind.

Has she been charged with conspiracy to kill her husband? Not challenging you - just asking bc IDK.

Also, for me, even given the atrocious act of trying to hire a hitman to off your husband, I cant then make an automatic, absolute leap to killing (abducting, injuring etc) a child. It sounds dismissive and disrepsectful to compare it to an apples and oranges situation, so I wont. Additionally, I know there's a belief floating about out there that a killer is a killer; but for me - somehow - there is a difference bw commission of those two atrocities. Not saying it's impossible for the same person to do both; just saying I cant make an automatic, absolute leap in logic there.

moo

.

 

[nonfictionrocks]

snipped for space.
BBM

Whoa!!
I didn't know anyone had been charged with Haleigh's murder yet, much less convicted.
I musta missed something.

BBM

Oh my gosh, is this true?!

 

[Kimster]

Okay y'all. Let's discuss the Croslin's guilt or innocence over here ---->[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=322"]Haleigh Cummings 5 years old - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Donjeta]

Hi, this is part of my problem too. Some seem to believe she is a master criminal with a complex and devious plan, yet...no real alibi? Oddball, possibly guilty behavior afterward? No known attempt to defend herself? It is hard to reconcile all of this with a woman whom a lot of posters and public believe constructed a detailed plot, possibly involving others. Her alleged murder plot with the landscaper sure does not sound too sophisicated, sounds more like, hey wanna make some money, kind of thing. I am very conflicted but not sold on guilt, that is for sure. At first I thought there was no way another adult could have removed Kyron but I no longer think that.

I sometimes think that we probably never hear of the true sophisticated masterminds because they're able to do it simply enough to make it look like an accident. The more complex the plan the more likely it is that some little detail gets overlooked, all the required lying and playacting gets to be too much or something unexpected trips it up, IMO.

 

[tiredblondy]

Catch 22 situation.. Their arrogant thinking tricks them into believing they don't have to concern themselves with consequences of their actions ....That is one of the traits of having a narcissistic personality disorder...JMO

Thought this was worth bumping up.
Her concern when Tony reported in the Dateline interview what he explained to Kaine,Terri and Desiree that first day and Terri's reaction seems to fit this. my opinion only