Is TH Responsible in any way for the Disappearance of Kyron? **NO DISCUSSION**

[Donjeta]

Has she been charged with conspiracy to kill her husband? Not challenging you - just asking bc IDK.

Also, for me, even given the atrocious act of trying to hire a hitman to off your husband, I cant then make an automatic, absolute leap to killing (abducting, injuring etc) a child. It sounds dismissive and disrepsectful to compare it to an apples and oranges situation, so I wont. Additionally, I know there's a belief floating about out there that a killer is a killer; but for me - somehow - there is a difference bw commission of those two atrocities. Not saying it's impossible for the same person to do both; just saying I cant make an automatic, absolute leap in logic there.

moo

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It depends on the frame of reference IMO.
I think that a big percentage of people who have sometimes contemplated murdering their spouses have never killed a child and likewise a number of people who have killed a child may have never contemplated killing their spouses so it is a fact (IMO) that the two don't necessarily go hand in hand. Similarly, people who steal cars do not always cheat with their taxes and vice versa. They are different crimes and might be committed for different motives.

But that said, IMO if you are dishonest enough to steal you might be more likely to be dishonest enough to cheat IRS than your neighbor who never stole anything in his life. And if you seriously think that murdering person A is a viable alternative of dealing with your problems with person A then you might be more likely to think that murdering person B would be a good idea if person B stands in your way somehow. If there is something in your psyche or morality that does not rule out murder in the abstract there might be more than one practical situation where you would consider it.

 

[Aedrys]

I sometimes think that we probably never hear of the true sophisticated masterminds because they're able to do it simply enough to make it look like an accident. The more complex the plan the more likely it is that some little detail gets overlooked, all the required lying and playacting gets to be too much or something unexpected trips it up, IMO.

This is what I was trying to say, but used a bad example to do it. I do think they're guilty, but it hasn't been proven in a court of law. All I was saying was that you don't have be a mastermind to do a crime. I think eventually we'll know what happened to poor Haleigh, and I won't be surprised if the Croslins are involved. If TH is guilty, she's eventually going to be caught. That's the difference. Masterminds are usually never caught, get caught on purpose, or finally make a slip up that allows them to get caught after years and years of criminal activity. People who aren't masterminds get caught a lot quicker than that. I don't think TH is a mastermind, maybe only in her own mind, and I think she will get caught. It's just a matter of time.

If criminal masterminds were the only ones who murdered people or did crime, our jail system would be way undercrowded instead of way overcrowded.

 

[Pondering Mind]

bbm~
Ain't that the truth?! I was robbed @ gunpoint while at work a little over a year ago. It happened so fast and I all could concentrate on was a gun in my face. The 2 guys were caught after about 2 hours following a police chase across town, but it certainly wasn't because of my description. I ALWAYS thought that I would be more aware IF something like this happened, but flunked miserably. I had the height about right.. and knew that they both had something like a doo-rag on their head and those dang GOLD teeth that the azzhole w/the gun had. I'll never forget that gold 'grille'..:sick:..but was totally wrong on what they were wearing when I looked back @ the video. I would have sworn that both had on dark screen printed shirts of some kind and one did, but the other guy was wearing pink!..how'd I miss that!?..

First, so sorry for quoting myself as I know it's bad form :angel:..but just wanted to add after reading through the threads...

Conversely, to the event above, I've mentioned before of my experience with the grief that so many of us here have gone through..that of losing a child...my 11 mth. old son died 36 yrs. ago of SIDS. Now, I recall every minute of that day in detail, this many years later...not so much the funeral, that's really still a blank in my mind, (probably a Blessing to be honest) but I mention this again because I'm struggling to believe that TH is having trouble 'remembering' details (it seems) on such a horrifying day. Personally, sometimes I would love to know how to forget, ya know? ..and yes, I realize that we all react differently..I'm just sayin...

 

[Bethlamb16]

I get that TH could fumble on her alibi but truly her complete lack of one (or at least what appears to be no alibi) is baffling to me and to me a pathological liar would at least have a set alibi that she uses and stick to it no matter what. My experience with most liars is that they believe their own lies so I believe she would have a story made up in her mind and would stick to it. The fact that she does not appear to have a "story" readily available points me to her not being involved and makes me very sad for Kyron if LE believes she is guilty. I just think she would have done a better cover-up/covering her tush at school and made her presence more known. It won't surprise me if she is guilty but if she is then she should go in the records as one of the dumbest criminals as I don't believe she set her alibi very well. JMO!!!

 

[Aedrys]

I get that TH could fumble on her alibi but truly her complete lack of one (or at least what appears to be no alibi) is baffling to me and to me a pathological liar would at least have a set alibi that she uses and stick to it no matter what. My experience with most liars is that they believe their own lies so I believe she would have a story made up in her mind and would stick to it. The fact that she does not appear to have a "story" readily available points me to her not being involved and makes me very sad for Kyron if LE believes she is guilty. I just think she would have done a better cover-up/covering her tush at school and made her presence more known. It won't surprise me if she is guilty but if she is then she should go in the records as one of the dumbest criminals as I don't believe she set her alibi very well. JMO!!!

Casey Anthony, to this day, insists a nanny that has been proven not to exist kidnapped and killed her daughter. She is also a pathological liar. She believes, still, that she can make that lie work and get out of jail. Just because someone is a pathological liar doesn't mean they're good at it. It just means all they do is tell lies and stick with them no matter how bad they sound or if they are even proven to be totally wrong. TH probably didn't think she would have to come up with something good to cover herself. She relied on LE just believing her lies about what she was up to that day, regardless if they had proof that she was wrong. Liars don't always make the best or most convincing storytellers, IMO.

 

[scotslass]

First, so sorry for quoting myself as I know it's bad form :angel:..but just wanted to add after reading through the threads...

Conversely, to the event above, I've mentioned before of my experience with the grief that so many of us here have gone through..that of losing a child...my 11 mth. old son died 36 yrs. ago of SIDS. Now, I recall every minute of that day in detail, this many years later...not so much the funeral, that's really still a blank in my mind, (probably a Blessing to be honest) but I mention this again because I'm struggling to believe that TH is having trouble 'remembering' details (it seems) on such a horrifying day. Personally, sometimes I would love to know how to forget, ya know? ..and yes, I realize that we all react differently..I'm just sayin...

Firstly i'm so sorry for your loss but i agree tragedy normally cements that days events into our minds, I can still remember what i was wearing, what i ate for breakfast and the exact words my father said to me when my mother passed and that it was a thursday morning. I was 5 to put it into perspective. I could recount those moments with accuracy to LE today if they asked and 33 years have passed. I think Th knows exactly what she did that day down to the minute but as it stands her timeline may be just that. MOO

 

[liz b.]

That Terri was the last known person to see him before he disappeared.

That he was never seen leaving the school.

That there have been about 3,300 tips.

hmmmm... that's about it.

Respectfully, these things too ;

1. Kyron was unaccounted for from around 9:00 a. m. until aroung 3 :30 p.m. This is a fact.

2. Originally the school "was not sure " if he got on the school bus or not. This was stated by the school itself.

3. The LE spokesperson,Shelby, stated that because the science exhibit was open before school started, it was a " semi public event ". Unidentified people were present ; we know this because Shelby also stated that people did not sign in or put on ID tags that morning.


Interestingly enough, this was the first science exhibit that Kyron had attended at Skyline Elementary school. So there is no way that TH could have known that security would be so lax that morning.

I don't blame the school. I blame the predator who took Kyron....

All JMO

 

[kant]

It depends on the frame of reference IMO.
I think that a big percentage of people who have sometimes contemplated murdering their spouses have never killed a child and likewise a number of people who have killed a child may have never contemplated killing their spouses so it is a fact (IMO) that the two don't necessarily go hand in hand. Similarly, people who steal cars do not always cheat with their taxes and vice versa. They are different crimes and might be committed for different motives.

But that said, IMO if you are dishonest enough to steal you might be more likely to be dishonest enough to cheat IRS than your neighbor who never stole anything in his life. And if you seriously think that murdering person A is a viable alternative of dealing with your problems with person A then you might be more likely to think that murdering person B would be a good idea if person B stands in your way somehow. If there is something in your psyche or morality that does not rule out murder in the abstract there might be more than one practical situation where you would consider it.

Great points. Im inclined to go with a thief is a thief in that inanimate items are the focus. I guess with the hitman versus child-harm issue for me it speaks to the notion that sometimes people have what seem like tenets, even when one of the "things" is some horror. For example, in war (not all wars not all people - just reaching for an illustration here) but killing all the men in a villiage would be acceptable to some. Killing the females and kids would not. IDK; I cant think of a good example, but it feels like a different level of moral vacuousness. Maybe it's bc of the innate innocence and defenslessness of a child? IDK what Im saying.

moo

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[Donjeta]

3. The LE spokesperson,Shelby, stated that because the science exhibit was open before school started, it was a " semi public event ". Unidentified people were present ; we know this because Shelby also stated that people did not sign in or put on ID tags that morning.

I think Matt Shelby isn't a LE spokesperson but a spokesperson for the Portland public schools.

 

[HopeInOhio]

I think TH planned out every minute of that morning. I think she doesn't have a definite alibi because she wanted future jurors to have that doubt and ask each other "if she was involved, why didn't she have a rock-solid alibi?"

I think the cell phone pings, the taking of the truck that day, the dr. appointment discussion with the teacher, the ear ache, DeDe disappearing, her actions after the LDTs, her demeanor at the press conference, etc. were all planned. There is a lot of confusion and inconsistencies about what she did that morning, and without an eyewitness she can say (or refuse to say) whatever she wants and there will always be doubt in some people's minds.

The only thing that had to go perfectly for her was getting him out of the school, unseen. Once he was in the truck, she could have yelled at him to lie on the floor and the poor little guy would have done what he was told.

I think her hatred of Kaine and possibly Desiree has been brewing for a long time, and Kyron was the perfect way to hurt them. I believe she acted alone, and killed him quickly beside the hole that she dug for him on a previous day. The body will probably never be found, and without a body the evidence may simply be "circumstantial" and there won't be a conviction.

So she will sit in jail during the trial, and get tons of attention from the whackos who will want to marry her and glom on to the drama (such as MC), and she'll have a fabulous story to sell when she isn't convicted and can start her life all over again.

She will play the victim role ("poor me, falsely accused") and adore all of the attention, and be free of children and a husband.

I just pray that LE has something really concrete, such as an eyewitness, and are waiting to get every last drop of evidence before charging her.

 

[debs]

Firstly i'm so sorry for your loss but i agree tragedy normally cements that days events into our minds, I can still remember what i was wearing, what i ate for breakfast and the exact words my father said to me when my mother passed and that it was a thursday morning. I was 5 to put it into perspective. I could recount those moments with accuracy to LE today if they asked and 33 years have passed. I think Th knows exactly what she did that day down to the minute but as it stands her timeline may be just that. MOO

I could not tell you what I did in the weeks prior to, much less the day of the death of my husband. I could not tell you who was with me and who was not. I could not tell you what time of the day or night it was (or whether it was day or night), what day of the week it was, nor the calendar date without looking at the death certificate or in my Bible. I could not tell you what I'd last eaten or the last place I went. This was from that day until this; I have no temporal memory outside of he was gone and the hole had sucked in that part of us which had connected us until that moment.

 

[cypress]

Some have mentioned TY, DY, and KH's behavior as opposed to TH's -- none of them were the last parent to see Kyron that day. If Terri is innocent, the guilt must be tremendous. Also, DY has stated in many, many interviews that she felt suspicious of Terri from the beginning. Did Terri pick up on it? Was something said to Terri that could explain why Terri was defensive or concerned about herself, a reason why she might've distanced herself from the group? Again, we only know Desiree's side of it, and it's reasonable to wonder about the other side, especially considering known inconsistencies in DY's and KH's statements that have portrayed Terri in a very negative light and have later been either disproved or more information has cleared up what initially seemed like evidence -- a perfect example of this is Kyron crying when he had to go home. Honestly, that really ticks me off, because that was deliberately used to infer that Terri was somehow responsible, and then later they admitted that Kyron was having trouble transitioning and cried when leaving both houses.

 

[Donjeta]

I think TH planned out every minute of that morning. I think she doesn't have a definite alibi because she wanted future jurors to have that doubt and ask each other "if she was involved, why didn't she have a rock-solid alibi?"

What would be considered a rock-solid alibi? Several impartial witnesses saying and security cameras showing she was firmly somewhere without Kyron all day?

I think it might be a bit difficult to arrange for anybody who spent some time that morning getting rid of Kyron because no one can be in two places at the same time. They would have to arrange for someone to lie for them or mislead others about the time they were somewhere and it's not that easy if you want rock solid. Flimsy is doable but rock solid is more difficult.

 

[seeking truth]

Here's my :twocents:

I think that I would like to see an interview with TH. However, I doubt her attorney would allow such a thing at this point, so I doubt we'll get that advantage to see her side of things.

Her lack of urgency since Kyron went missing is suspicious to me. Her comments on FB that have been widely discussed here and in the media, her demeanor in the two pressers of which she appeared, and her "sexting" episode put my hinky meter on overload.

That's where I'm at right now. Feel free to disagree, I can take it.

This is exactly where I am.

I wish we would get more facts on th telephone pings and videos.

These posts got me thinking. It seems like this points to her very possible involvement: These are pieces of evidence that LE will not, and cannot, release to the public because they are a part of their investigation; the case they appear to be building against Terri.

I also think that they are significant in the fact that we, the public, were privy to the fact of them, that they existed and that LE wanted them (the video, i mean). I think with the cell phone pings, whether the stories we heard were rumor or not (like her phone pinging on Sauvie Island) in this day and age we just assume that these will be collected and looked at in any investigation.


This is what I think, based upon what LE has told us; that they will not compromise the investigation by releasing the results of their investigations.

This is my :twocents: worth and my OPINION

 

[liz b.]

I think Matt Shelby isn't a LE spokesperson but a spokesperson for the Portland public schools.

Thanks for that ; I was reading from my notes, and looking at two articles at once.....

 

[scotslass]

I could not tell you what I did in the weeks prior to, much less the day of the death of my husband. I could not tell you who was with me and who was not. I could not tell you what time of the day or night it was (or whether it was day or night), what day of the week it was, nor the calendar date without looking at the death certificate or in my Bible. I could not tell you what I'd last eaten or the last place I went. This was from that day until this; I have no temporal memory outside of he was gone and the hole had sucked in that part of us which had connected us until that moment.

I'm very sorry you have experienced such a loss. I did not intend to say everyone remembers every detail as loss and grief are overwhelming and personal. My father cannot remember much from the whole year after my mom passed. What i was trying to illustrate was tragic events can cement that day into our minds for me although it was my mother my grief was not overwhelming as i could not comprehend the entirety of the situation but it was tragic. Most people can recall where we they were/what they were doing on sept 11 2001 as it was a tragic event these same people may not recall what they did last week. I was stating Tragedy can cement moments in our minds. I feel Kyron not getting off that bus and knowing he was missing for hours would be tragic and for a lot of people that would cement the actions of that day in their minds. I was also trying to point out Terri's timeline may be exactly just that a detailed outline of her day, Her time has allegedly been accounted for it is just that it cannot be verified (driving with baby for 90 mins).

 

[CarmelEyesD]

I am some pages behind, so do not know if this has been posted.

What would have happened to this mom if the school had not had cameras and the child was not found at a friends house?

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=11745999&hl=9

"Police are crediting surveillance video for helping them find a 5-year-old Midvale girl after she went missing from her summer school program. "

 

[Emeralgem]

I think TH planned out every minute of that morning. I think she doesn't have a definite alibi because she wanted future jurors to have that doubt and ask each other "if she was involved, why didn't she have a rock-solid alibi?"

I think the cell phone pings, the taking of the truck that day, the dr. appointment discussion with the teacher, the ear ache, DeDe disappearing, her actions after the LDTs, her demeanor at the press conference, etc. were all planned. There is a lot of confusion and inconsistencies about what she did that morning, and without an eyewitness she can say (or refuse to say) whatever she wants and there will always be doubt in some people's minds.

The only thing that had to go perfectly for her was getting him out of the school, unseen. Once he was in the truck, she could have yelled at him to lie on the floor and the poor little guy would have done what he was told.

I think her hatred of Kaine and possibly Desiree has been brewing for a long time, and Kyron was the perfect way to hurt them. I believe she acted alone, and killed him quickly beside the hole that she dug for him on a previous day. The body will probably never be found, and without a body the evidence may simply be "circumstantial" and there won't be a conviction.

So she will sit in jail during the trial, and get tons of attention from the whackos who will want to marry her and glom on to the drama (such as MC), and she'll have a fabulous story to sell when she isn't convicted and can start her life all over again.

She will play the victim role ("poor me, falsely accused") and adore all of the attention, and be free of children and a husband. I just pray that LE has something really concrete, such as an eyewitness, and are waiting to get every last drop of evidence before charging her.

IMHO.. You have her pegged to a T....

Typical behavior of Cluster B Personality Disorder..
Aka: Dramatic Personality Disorder, Histrionic Personality, Borderline Personality, Antisocial Personality, Narcissistic Personality, Sociopath, Psychopath

JMHO

 

[kai]

If TH was not involved then why isn't she giving interviews, releasing a statement, using that $350K to keep Kyron in the public eye somehow, and just saying plain out and simple "I AM NOT INVOLVED!" I can somewhat understand with her attorney now that she probably won't do that. However, there was a span of time when she was being looked at and eyed as being involved when she did NOT have an attorney yet and she never came out speaking publically to clear her name. I was a fence sitter for awhile but the one thing that always topples me back to her as being my POI is that she hasn't defended herself. Ever. If she was innocent, why not say so?

 

[WhyaDuck?]

My gut tells me she's guilty, and my gut is usually not wrong.

That being said, without definitive proof, I feel like I'm constantly going up to bat for my position...and then realizing I don't have a bat to hit a point out of the ballpark with. It sucks, and I really don't like it. So I believe she's guilty for a lot of the reasons people have already talked about, but those reasons can't get her convicted in a court of law.

On another note, Dede really, really, REALLY needs to get her darn immunity and talk! I have a feeling what she might know may finally be something concrete that ties Terri to the crime. But she's smug and wanting her immunity before she says anything. It just better be worth the immunity, that's all I'm saying.

I also want to comment on the memory thing. A child going missing is a hugely traumatic event. It's akin, in my mind, to what happened on Sept. 11, 2001. I can still recall in great detail my entire day that day. It is something I will never forget as long as I live. Why? Because my physical safety and mortality was in dire question for the first time in my entire life. I didn't feel safe at all. I felt frightened, confused, vulnerable, and shocked and stunned that this could actually happen.

I think that feeling is similar to losing a child. These parents, even if they are shock, probably felt incredibly vulnerable and frightened for Kyron's physical safety. They probably felt confused as they don't know where he is or who really has him (they have suspicions, yes, but that doesn't totally quiet that nagging voice in the back of their mind that it might NOT be Terri. That is too frightening to even consider). They are stunned this could happen to them, shocked it happened to them, and frightened that they'll never get him back. Of course they are going to be able recall in detail everything they did that day. Every where they were, everything that happened because they care about him and love him, and every second of that last day he was seen is probably etched in their minds forever. Obviously, they rememebered enough to not be suspicious of the police, or they would be the ones in the hot seat right now, not Terri.

The fact that Terri couldn't remember tells me she didn't care near as much for Kyron's physical safety, that this day is not etched in her mind at all, and if she is innocent, she's made the huge mistake of being so emotionless about a missing little boy. She wasn't traumatized by him being missing, or she would have been able to call up every detail of that day and not have a timeline that doesn't add up. I know memory is not perfect, but there are those things that get etched in your memory forever, and I would think having a child go missing is one of them.

I think it's mostly the fact that the only thing she appears to care about in this case is herself and tending to her needs that leads me to believe she did something to him. Because like Casey, he was in her way for some reason, or she wanted to use him to specifically hurt someone, and to do that she had to get rid of him, and so she did, and just washed her hands of it. He wasn't important, he's gone, move on and don't look back. With an attitude like that, it's no wonder she's looking so guilty for what happened to Kyron. Shoot, she doesn't even seem to care one bit for her biological children. What category does that put Kyron in then?

Finally, I don't think you have to be smart to get away with a murder. Look at the Croslins in Florida. You're going to tell me the group of them has the IQ to murder a child and hide her body? But yet somehow they did. And I do think Terri had help as well, probably from BFF Dede. I just don't know for sure until what Dede knows comes out.

But again, I have no solid evidence. I can't go up to bat on this. And if my gut is wrong, and the police are wrong, and another child goes missing from Skyline, God help us all.

BBM

If there is another perp, s/he'd be pretty stupid to strike again at this location, as s/he has been given a huge gift in TH - I would think that the perp would just move on to another part of state, or, better, another state altogether. MOO.