Is TH Responsible in any way for the Disappearance of Kyron? **NO DISCUSSION**

[SurfieTX]

I have been thinking about this too. But KH saying that she appeared perfectly normal, sitting at her laptop, showing off pictures, etc....makes me wonder.

This is strange to me too. Look, she knows that in a matter of an hour or so, the is about to hit the fan - and she's just dawdling on the computer? Even a half-way normal person would have nervous energy - be cleaning the house, working outside, doing something active, and that's even if she were somewhat, ugh, "happy" about it.

 

[KeyboardCat]

I think Terri looks suspicious for this, mostly for same reasons other people do.

But the problem is, too little information has come from LE. The rest of the info out there comes from case players or newspapers with unnamed sources. We can't see police reports, or transcripts of interviews... nothing. We can't even be absolutely sure where they haven't searched. Everything we have left to talk about here is opinion, speculation, and conjecture, or debate on which source is to be believed or not believed and for what reason.

Maybe I'm becoming disheartened, but unless the police take the muzzle off, we won't know what happened to Kyron until they tell us.. or until he is found. And even then, we may not know what happened to him. I hate to say this, but its been eight weeks. And I know you all know the reality of that, and the chances of him being found alive are not the best. So at this point, even if his remains are found, there may not be a discernible cause of death... nor any evidence of what he suffered... and unfortunately any biological evidence of who made him suffer may be gone now as well.

Unless they know that Terri did this for sure, and can at some point in the future prove it.... we will probably never know.

 

[lynmaree]

Was she involved? In my mind absolutely! Is she the mastermind, again yes! Has she lost control and this whole thing snowballed out of control? Again yes...
Did she herself harm him? This is where I get stuck...I just dont see it...If he has been harmed/killed, I completely believe (and I have no idea why other than gut feeling) that someone else actually committed the act...where was Kiara when she killed him, where was she when she disposed of the body? TH didnt plan to kill KH herself, she tried to hire someone else to do it so to me that tells me she's less likely to have personally killed an INNOCENT child that, for all accounts, at least at some point in time she loved and cared for.

IF (and this is a big if) K is deceased then I completely feel that KH and DY do not know or have any reason to believe same. In this impossible situation, if they believed him dead, I dont think they would be able to put on the hopeful front and be out there in front of the media answering any questions. For whatever reason, they truly believe he is ALIVE and I cant see law enforcement giving them false hope. We all say they know more than we do---a lot more---maybe their theories are based on not only instinct but facts and tips as well. DY seemed so sure of herself when they were talking about plans for August and she said he'd be home by then.

Also, one thing strange stood out in the interview....DY said one of the emails from TH was about "t-shirts" and she mumbles to Kaine something about not having done that yet and still needing too...I inferred that TH told DY in email that K needed new tshirts and DY was supposed to pick him up some. If she is still planning to do so that means she must have more than just maternal hope ...DEAR LORD I HOPE SHE"S RIGHT!

This is all opinion only

 

[scotslass]

BBM

Oh my goodness - I am so glad you asked. I have been chewing that one over, myself. I'd really like to know more about these two.

Me too I also find his reasoning that he was trying to solicit info from TH interesting and then throwing out there she asked him to lie to her attorney. I really don't know where MC fits in, the media class him as a friend of KH, KH refuted that saying he just reappeared. He sure was in with the family fast and thick for someone so distant (vigils,early interviews, being at the home, the website etc). He was having a sexting relationship with TH so was he friends with Th before all of this but KH had no knowledge of friendship? Then DDS organized Th fortieth b-day party but KH hardly knows her... Seems like Th had a whole set of friends that were solely hers.Hmmm

So these friends do they all know each other? I have wondered. Nothing makes sense to me anymore..

 

[STEADFAST]

I don't know that Terri is guilty of doing something criminal to Kyron, but it seems to me that so many of her behaviors have come together during that morning and the time since, all adding up to her probable guilt. Each thing by itself is not hugely suspect, but taken together, I think they are very convincing (though not proof, by any means.)

LE has stated that she was the last person seen with Kyron and that the last confirmed sighting of him was with her.

She took the truck that day, which was not her routine, and did not use it for the purpose for which she'd claimed to need it.

She told a friend that she had told Kyron's teacher that he had an appointment on Friday but that it was a different Friday, and gave reasons for the teacher's misunderstanding that were at least partially untrue.

Her whereabouts in the hours following his disappearance have not been confirmed, and reports are that her explanation for a good deal of that time is "just driving around." Reports are that her cell phone pings and bank records don't match where she said she was.

A friend of hers who left work without explanation on the morning Kyron went missing, after a call from Terri, has to be called to a grand jury to get her to explain what she was doing at that time.

She has not been able to pass a LDT concerning her activities that morning.

Her facebook page was just beyond insensitive about Kyron's disappearance. I don't think we can discuss particulars, but I saw it, and believe me, it was hinky as all get out, with NO unhappiness or anxiety shown, quite the opposite.

Her appearance at that one press conference seemed very "off" to me. She looked, frankly, guilty (to me) and seemed to be faking an emotional attachment to Desiree for the cameras.

Her cell records led LE to a man who claims she wanted to hire him to kill Kaine.

She asked another man to lie to everyone including her attorney about violating the terms of the R.O.

She has not fought to see her daughter, preferring to keep silent.

She has not proclaimed her innocence.

That's not enough to convict her, no. But it certainly is enough to justify strongly suspecting her guilt.

 

[angelainwi]

I just keep thinking back to the Jon Benet case, didn't mom or dad fail polygraphs? Who would have ever thought that case would conclude the way it did.

Speaking of polygraphs I still find it very curious why LE decided to bring them up yesterday.

I think if Terri did it they would somehow have enough to arrest her??

 

[adh74]

Me too I also find his reasoning that he was trying to solicit info from TH interesting and then throwing out there she asked him to lie to her attorney. I really don't know where MC fits in, the media class him as a friend of KH, KH refuted that saying he just reappeared. He sure was in with the family fast and thick for someone so distant (vigils,early interviews, being at the home, the website etc). He was having a sexting relationship with TH so was he friends with Th before all of this but KH had no knowledge of friendship? Then DDS organized Th fortieth b-day party but KH hardly knows her... Seems like Th had a whole set of friends that were solely hers.Hmmm

So these friends do they all know each other? I have wondered. Nothing makes sense to me anymore..

I'm right there with you. It seems to appear that TH had some whole little secret life going on. Her BFF DeDe....KH barely knew. MC appears out of nowhere, and jumps right in as if he's know the family forever? Wierd. I'm thinking he knew TH & DDS for at least a little while prior to Kryon going missing. Additionally, weren't there MSM reports based on other acquaintences of his that he has a bit of a hinky past?

 

[cindysue]

I got this off net to describe sociopaths maybe it will help with understanding certain behaviors

Glibness and Superficial Charm

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Pathological Lying

Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Incapacity for Love

Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

 

[citigirl]

Okay, I am ready for the slings and arrows. I definitely think she is involved in this. But I do understand people who want more proof.

I keep thinking about the "toxic cloud," as Emma so aptly put it, that was created by the way Terri and Kaine's relationship started. I think it is possible Desiree has not been a hands-on parent with Kyron, due to her illness and her frustration with standing up to Kaine. I soooo wish she did not live in Medford. I think it's possible Kyron would still be at home. But how could she know it would lead to this?

Anyway, back to Terri. I think she has a personality disorder of some kind, probably borderline personality disorder, and is not emotionally attached to either of her children. She is emotionally attached to the opinions of others. She needs constant attention, and caring for children is a selfless job that requires putting someone else's needs before your own. We have lots of examples of this, but the most recent is Kaine saying in the interview that Baby K was playing in her room when he came home. Huh? A child that age playing alone in her room?

I still believe that LE is encouraging, or at least allowing, the family to call out people who have information. It would be so easy for the sheriff to come out, for example, in yesterday's press conference, and say, "We understand Kaine and Desiree's frustration. They are missing their little boy. We have asked them not to comment on the investigation. Please understand that their comments are not coming from us."

I do think someone else is involved also. Although Terri is capable of filching friends' gin and vodka on her own, I don't think she is smart enough and self-controlled enough to manage a kidnapping or murder and the ensuing activity on her own. Accident or premeditated? I don't know. I think, as I have from the very beginning, that it was either an accident or she had help with the planning to get Kyron from the school. I believe somebody might even have taken him from the school...

There's more, but I know I have written a lot of speculation that feels "gut right" to me that others will not find acceptable.

If am wrong about this, I am very angry at LE for telling the parents of Skyline that their kids are safe in that school.

 

[Billylee]

I also have to wonder this. Why did TH hire a criminal attny when she has not been charged with anything? Obvious answer is she feels she will be charged. But why? Charged with what? Kidnapping? Murder? or just the MFH plot? It's too bad there isn't at least a statement coming forward from her attorney at this point. Like, "My client is innocent". But then, like I said, she hasn't even been charged with anything. So that being the case, why is she so quiet and basically on the lamb? Why not just make a statement "I do not know who took Kyron or what happened to him." This silence also bothers me and makes me look at her in a different light. Her silence also makes me suspicious that if she did take him, he's not deceased, but she's taken him away from KH for whatever reason. It's all just plain bizarre! Dumb question here, if Terri has hidden Kyron, let's say for what she deems his own protection, as his stepmother, who is/was responsible for his welfare, can she be charged with kidnapping?

 

[Kat010]

ThoughtFox, I'd like to respectfully disagree with you on this: "Here's the court affidavit about the sexting and the restraining order against Terri. This is real evidence. The cell phones and text messages, as well as images, are part of the court record and the evidence and were viewed by a judge "in camera" or in his chambers."

(Bold not by me)

Firstly, "in camera" does not necessarily mean in his chambers. Its literal translation means "in private". For example, a judge might be contacted at home by LE and review documents there.

Maybe the judge was heading out to a big dinner at the country club. Or..whatever. Maybe the judge trusted the LE person who brought the request for RO.

We simply do not know the track record of the judge who issued the RO, how he/she received it and reviewed it, etc. Unless I've missed something, which is very likely.

Yesterday in the speculation thread I posted another theory about what might have happened if TH is involved (not the only possibility, just a different possibility). Here it is:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5455397#post5455397"]Connect The Dots-Working theories thread #2 - Page 14 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

I also have to disagree with those who say that TH is the last person to have seen Kyron that day, or the last person who saw him alive. According to reports, he was seen by others after the time that she said that she left. And I don't think that being the last person, or next to last, or among the last 3, etc. necessarily indicates guilt. If it does, then anyone in their right minds would stop reporting crime or giving testimony if it turned out that they were the "last" person to see the victim. I agree that it's a red flag, but also remember this: the "last person" (in the family) to see John Walsh's son Adam Walsh was his mother.

There's now so much contradictory stuff out there that it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Do I think TH may have been involved? Yes. Do I know that? No.

Do I think someone else may have gotten involved with her? Yes. Do I know that? No.

Do I think someone else other than TH may be responsible? Yes. Do I know that? No.

Do I think that maybe a predator committed a crime of opportunity? Yes. Do I know that? No.

Do I think Michael Cook is lying, and may have had something to do with this, or may know more than he's said? Yes. Do I know that? No.

Do I think DDS may know something or may have been involved? May have, but don't know. The leaving her job suddenly, etc. doesn't bother me as my yard folks come and go, and sometimes leave suddenly. I've gone out to find tools left in the flower bed, and then they come back. Once they were called to another job real quick to help w/something.

Am I convinced by cellphone "pings"? No.

I'm so weary of this fence. But unless and until some solid hard evidence is presented, looks like I might as well try to find the least uncomfortable position.

Maybe this fence has sections that swing back and forth.

 

[scotslass]

There's more, but I know I have written a lot of speculation that feels "gut right" to me that others will not find acceptable.

If am wrong about this, I am very angry at LE for telling the parents of Skyline that their kids are safe in that school.

respectively snipped and BBM

ME TOO!!!

 

[gibby207]

I haven't seen any indication that anyone else would be. And, even though LE is tight lipped, I can see them flexing their muscles, and yes, it looks like she's responsible. MOO.

 

[ThoughtFox]

ThoughtFox, I'd like to respectfully disagree with you on this: "Here's the court affidavit about the sexting and the restraining order against Terri. This is real evidence. The cell phones and text messages, as well as images, are part of the court record and the evidence and were viewed by a judge "in camera" or in his chambers."

(Bold not by me)

Firstly, "in camera" does not necessarily mean in his chambers. Its literal translation means "in private". For example, a judge might be contacted at home by LE and review documents there.

Maybe the judge was heading out to a big dinner at the country club. Or..whatever. Maybe the judge trusted the LE person who brought the request for RO.

We simply do not know the track record of the judge who issued the RO, how he/she received it and reviewed it, etc. Unless I've missed something, which is very likely.

And I'll just as respectfully disagree with you.

"In camera" means "In Chambers" in Latin - I put that there because often people don't know what that means. I presume that is where the judge looked at the cell phone pictures and text messages.

I see no reason to cast doubt on the judge, unless you can link to something showing he is negligent in other cases? Making him sound like some country club guy who didn't care when he issued a restraining order is just a way to say that he is against Terri, when you can't really know if that is true or not.

This is exactly what I mean by casting doubt on everyone from LE to the Judge to K&D. I just refuse to believe that everyone is lying except TH - that's probably just not true, imo.

But whatever - whether you think the judge did the right thing or not, my point is just that these cell phone records exist. I've counted more than five times today that people have posted that the Sexting was a myth made up by Kaine or the Media or even LE. That isn't true. We need to get the facts straight before we start making assumptions that everyone is lying except for TH.

 

[meowmo]

I don't know that Terri is guilty of doing something criminal to Kyron, but it seems to me that so many of her behaviors have come together during that morning and the time since, all adding up to her probable guilt. Each thing by itself is not hugely suspect, but taken together, I think they are very convincing (though not proof, by any means.)

snipped... ITA steadfast, thank you for a clear and concise outline. and you are correct, it's quite convincing in the court of public opinion, but certainly not enough for a court of law...which, in the end, is what really matters here.

IMO, however, we may be looking at another Haleigh scenario... months and months will pass with little to no new info. an arrest looks imminent and then the case stalls again. i really hope i'm wrong, though.

i don't know if TH is a criminal mastermind and has just covered her tracks so thoroughly that they will never be unearthed or if LE is just not on the right track. climbing up and down this fence is TIRING! :nerves:

 

[Billylee]

And I'll just as respectfully disagree with you.

"In camera" means "In Chambers" - I put that there because often people don't know what that means.

I see no reason to cast doubt on the judge, unless you can link to something showing he is negligent in other cases?

This is exactly what I mean by casting doubt on everyone from LE to the Judge to K&D. I just refuse to believe that everyone is lying except TH - that's probably just not true, imo.

But whatever - whether you think the judge did the right thing or not, my point is just that these cell phone records exist. I've counted more than five times today that people have posted that the Sexting was a myth made up by Kaine or the Media or even LE. That isn't true. We need to get the facts straight before we start making assumptions that everyone is lying except for TH.

Thank you for posting that document! I had not seen that the sexting and texting came from LE. Now we know and it just confirms more odd behavior by TH. I question her motive behind that behavior, is she some sexpot who can't control herself, even under such grave circumstances as your stepson is missing, or is it further stuff she's throwing at Kaine to say, "Here take this!" Sometimes, I get the feeling we're all just seeing a bitter, dysfunctional marriage coming to a horrible end. AND I HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE USE CHILDREN TO GET WHAT THEY WANT IN A DIVORCE! It happens so often, and it just makes me sick! Anyway, thanks for posting that!

 

[Kat010]

And I'll just as respectfully disagree with you.

"In camera" means "In Chambers" in Latin - I put that there because often people don't know what that means. I presume that is where the judge looked at the cell phone pictures and text messages.

I see no reason to cast doubt on the judge, unless you can link to something showing he is negligent in other cases? Making him sound like some country club guy who didn't care when he issued a restraining order is just a way to say that he is against Terri, when you can't really know if that is true or not.

This is exactly what I mean by casting doubt on everyone from LE to the Judge to K&D. I just refuse to believe that everyone is lying except TH - that's probably just not true, imo.

But whatever - whether you think the judge did the right thing or not, my point is just that these cell phone records exist. I've counted more than five times today that people have posted that the Sexting was a myth made up by Kaine or the Media or even LE. That isn't true. We need to get the facts straight before we start making assumptions that everyone is lying except for TH.

Hi Thought,

I wasn't casting asperions on the judge at all. I was simply describing how the system works. Judges even get called at home. (I have a friend who's a jduge, my next door neighbor and friend is a criminal attorney, and I've known specifically of cases where judges get called at home, documents are brought to them, etc. etc.) So we don't know how or where he reviewed the records, of if she's known as a jduge that's easy or hard to get ROs or search warrants from. They're human, and they vary.

Yes, I know what "in camera" means (Latin scholar here), and we can all, thank goodness, google! (I love Latin and studied it in college as well as that and Spanish in HS. Latin is a wonderful, logical language!)

Ooops. Back on track. But "in camera" in the working world means "in private" and that does not necessarily mean specifically within his chambers at the courthouse.

Yes, cellphone records for everyone in this case exist. No one is doubting that.

But let's not get off on that sidetrack. No one is saying that everyone except TH is lying. Not at all. What we do is sift, analyze, research, post theories or reactions, and then listen to the responses and sift, analyze, research, etc.

No one said nor implied that the judge was anti-Terri, etc. We're simply exploring possibilities.

 

[STEADFAST]

snipped... ITA steadfast, thank you for a clear and concise outline. and you are correct, it's quite convincing in the court of public opinion, but certainly not enough for a court of law...which, in the end, is what really matters here.

IMO, however, we may be looking at another Haleigh scenario... months and months will pass with little to no new info. an arrest looks imminent and then the case stalls again. i really hope i'm wrong, though.

i don't know if TH is a criminal mastermind and has just covered her tracks so thoroughly that they will never be unearthed or if LE is just not on the right track. climbing up and down this fence is TIRING! :nerves:

Unfortunately, as we've seen time and time again, it doesn't take a criminal mastermind (or even a person of normal intelligence) to avoid being prosecuted for a murder or disappearance. I've seen many cases where the perp was sloppy, hinky, stupid, unorganized, etc, and no one is ever brought to justice.
But, on a hopeful note, LE has forever to solve a murder, and time does bring out new evidence much of the time.

 

[WhyaDuck?]

Unfortunately, as we've seen time and time again, it doesn't take a criminal mastermind (or even a person of normal intelligence) to avoid being prosecuted for a murder or disappearance. I've seen many cases where the perp was sloppy, hinky, stupid, unorganized, etc, and no one is ever brought to justice.
But, on a hopeful note, LE has forever to solve a murder, and time does bring out new evidence much of the time.

BBM

ITA.

Sadly, though, time does make evidence degrade.

I hope they find their trail very soon.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

I don't like being on the fence, I'd rather be on the Terri is guilty side. But try as I may I can't climb down. Oh, I go on walk about, but by the end of the day, I'm right back up here.

I'm right there with ya! I'm definitely leaning on the side of TH being guilty, but it seems my pants are caught on a pokey part of the fence . . . .

Her personality and odd, immoral actions certainly make me dislike her, but I don't take them into consideration when deciding if she's guilty or not. The one thing I can't get passed that makes me lean towards her guilt is the fact that she was unnaccounted for - er, I mean driving aimlessly on rural roads - at the same time Kyron disappeared. This we know for a fact. Then, if you add in two other possibilities (we haven't had proof of yet): she may have told the teacher Kyron had a dr appt that day and most likely tried to have Kaine murdered, it just SCREAMS guilt to me.

I know some people think the MFH shouldn't be taken into account, but I absolutely do. It goes to her morals and the fact she can coldly have a person murdered. Not just a person, her family. If she can do that, absolutely she could have done something to Kyron. Especially because doing so would hurt Kaine more than anything, which she obviously wanted to do if she was going to have him murdered.

IMO, if they can find her guilty of the MFH, they can most certainly go ahead and charge her with Kyrons disappearance. I mean, come one, she tries to have her husband murdered and then 6 months later his son ends up missing on her watch at a time she has no alibi? Hmmmm . . . .


ETA: The part that's keeping me stuck up on this pesky fence is the fact there is no evidence - no witnesses that saw Kyron with TH after leaving the school (that we know of) and no DNA evidence to suggest wrongdoing. So, for that, I just have to keep an open mind because it is possible.