What is your #1 top indicator that Terri IS responsible for Kyron's disappearance?

[Kat010]

From the article:

Monday's court filing also stated that police had told Kaine that Terri's "sexual overtures to Mr. Cook resemble those made to the man Respondent (Terri Horman) attempted to hire to murder Petitioner (Kaine)."

The restraining order actually says that LE told Kaine's attorney - not Kaine - that Terri had made similar sexual overtures to the landscaper.

However, how those sexual overtures were relayed or communicated was not specified. We just don't know if they were relayed via texts, pictures, voice in person, voice via phone, charades, sign language, smoke signals, physical touch, etc.

I realize that many people very much want texts with the LS to exist, but right now, we just don't know if they do.

What we do know is that one doesn't need texts or a camera to make sexual overtures to someone. We know that because of the proliferation of humankind prior to the existence of cell phones, cameras, computers, the internet, etc.

I need to add petroglyphs to my list of ways Terri may have relayed her alleged sexual overtures to the landscaper...

BeanE, you rock! Maybe the petroglpyhs became sexual and scandalous when the newly-discovered reddish color was used.

I notice that this whole thing is kind of hearsay, as you noted: LE tells attorney who tells Kaine who then says....etc. And then a news source rephrases, more or less accurately, depending.

And it's pathetic to read MC saying that he's a "straight shooter". Ahem. Not even close. I don't trust anything about or from him at all.

Thanks to everyone who provided links. Just too much weird stuff in this case.

 

[mmmagique]

BeanE, you rock! Maybe the petroglpyhs became sexual and scandalous when the newly-discovered reddish color was used.

Erm...no pun intended? *lol*

 

[stmarysmead]

It doesn't matter to me how Terri conveyed her "sexual overtones" to the Landscaper. I contrast that behavior and the sexting behavior that immediately followed with MC, with a woman who writes "Okay, I love you..." to Kaine.

Leaving out the moral judgments (or trying to) this seems to me to be really deceptive behavior.

If, however, she and Kaine were truly having problems for awhile and both parties understood that there were huge cracks in the marriage, maybe Kaine could put such behavior in context. "Okay, things have been pretty bad between us."

But thinking of some of his later comments that indicate that he never saw this coming...if that is true, the feeling that Terri was deceptive could not have come at a worse time.

If Terri said "I love you" every night and yes, there were squabbles but he thought the marriage was solid...then, any type of sexual overture to another man...or TWO...must have stunned Kaine profoundly and shook his belief in his wife's credibility.

Coming at a time when his son was missing, world already in chaos... a revelation that your wife was deceptive in her feelings and in her respect for your marriage must have been a stunner. Coming at a time when she is also telling you she failed two polygraphs..the effect is cumulative.

Then you add in LE telling you about a Murder For Hire allegation.

I'd imagine Kaine would be asking himself, "Who is this woman?"

And yes, we don't know for sure if these are facts...but we do know this is what the RO says Kaine was told.

Anyway, just my humble opinion etc.

 

[BeanE]

It doesn't matter to me how Terri conveyed her "sexual overtones" to the Landscaper. I contrast that behavior and the sexting behavior that immediately followed with MC, with a woman who writes "Okay, I love you..." to Kaine.

Leaving out the moral judgments (or trying to) this seems to me to be really deceptive behavior.

If, however, she and Kaine were truly having problems for awhile and both parties understood that there were huge cracks in the marriage, maybe Kaine could put such behavior in context. "Okay, things have been pretty bad between us."

But thinking of some of his later comments that indicate that he never saw this coming...if that is true, the feeling that Terri was deceptive could not have come at a worse time.

If Terri said "I love you" every night and yes, there were squabbles but he thought the marriage was solid...then, any type of sexual overture to another man...or TWO...must have stunned Kaine profoundly and shook his belief in his wife's credibility.

Coming at a time when his son was missing, world already in chaos... a revelation that your wife was deceptive in her feelings and in her respect for your marriage must have been a stunner. Coming at a time when she is also telling you she failed two polygraphs..the effect is cumulative.

Then you add in LE telling you about a Murder For Hire allegation.

I'd imagine Kaine would be asking himself, "Who is this woman?"

And yes, we don't know for sure if these are facts...but we do know this is what the RO says Kaine was told.

Anyway, just my humble opinion etc.

Hi SMM

Is this what you're referring to? The email Terri sent Kaine the day he left with the baby?

BBM. "OK, I love you but this is ridiculous. What you are doing is parental child abduction and is illegal. I need to know where my daughter is and if she is safe. You were really upset with me when you left. What is it that I/we need to do to reconcile this? I don't want to call 911 but I need a resolution please. If I don't hear from you in an hour I will call 911," Terri Horman wrote to Kaine Horman.

http://www.kptv.com/news/24581546/detail.html

 

[Calliope]

It doesn't matter to me how Terri conveyed her "sexual overtones" to the Landscaper. I contrast that behavior and the sexting behavior that immediately followed with MC, with a woman who writes "Okay, I love you..." to Kaine.

Leaving out the moral judgments (or trying to) this seems to me to be really deceptive behavior.

<snip>

You're referring to the email she wrote Kaine after he took baby? If so, I'm sure she WAS being deceptive and for good reason.

When this came out, I posted on that thread my experience with my then-husband taking my daughter and leaving the state, then telling me I'd never see her again. While I was shaking and terrified and in my mind calling him every name in the book, when I spoke to him on the phone I was calm, telling him how much I loved him and how we could work things out. On and on and on. I poured it on thick. I didn't give a rat's behind that I was lying through my teeth and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. My goal was to find out exactly where he was and get my daughter back. So when I read Terri's email I saw immediately what she was doing. I was surprised it upset me so; I'd buried those memories long ago. Just thinking about what happened makes me shake all over again.

 

[OneLove]

You're referring to the email she wrote Kaine after he took baby? If so, I'm sure she WAS being deceptive and for good reason.

When this came out, I posted on that thread my experience with my then-husband taking my daughter and leaving the state, then telling me I'd never see her again. While I was shaking and terrified and in my mind calling him every name in the book, when I spoke to him on the phone I was calm, telling him how much I loved him and how we could work things out. On and on and on. I poured it on thick. I didn't give a rat's behind that I was lying through my teeth and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. My goal was to find out exactly where he was and get my daughter back. So when I read Terri's email I saw immediately what she was doing. I was surprised it upset me so; I'd buried those memories long ago. Just thinking about what happened makes me shake all over again.

I am soooo sorry for your traumatic experience, very very sorry. I hope everything eventually turned out ok, for you AND for your kids. Your story also brings back some of my own long-ago memories pushed way back. Thankfully, my kids are doing well as adults now, in spite of some childhood glitches. :blowkiss:

 

[Calliope]

I am soooo sorry for your traumatic experience, very very sorry. I hope everything eventually turned out ok, for you AND for your kids. Your story also brings back some of my own long-ago memories pushed way back. Thankfully, my kids are doing well as adults now, in spite of some childhood glitches. :blowkiss:

Thank you (I try not to think about it too much), and I'm relieved to hear you and yours are doing well now too.

 

[pufnstuf]

Hi SMM

Is this what you're referring to? The email Terri sent Kaine the day he left with the baby?

BBM. "OK, I love you but this is ridiculous. What you are doing is parental child abduction and is illegal. I need to know where my daughter is and if she is safe. You were really upset with me when you left. What is it that I/we need to do to reconcile this? I don't want to call 911 but I need a resolution please. If I don't hear from you in an hour I will call 911," Terri Horman wrote to Kaine Horman.

http://www.kptv.com/news/24581546/detail.html

OH, the irony. Sickening.

 

[Jade2010]

From the article:

However, how those sexual overtures were relayed or communicated was not specified. We just don't know if they were relayed via texts, pictures, voice in person, voice via phone, charades, sign language, smoke signals, physical touch, etc.

Oh Bean. My eyes are watering. lol

 

[stmarysmead]

Much of my belief in Terri's guilt hinges on the Murder-for Hire plot.

Specifically I look at Kaine's complete reversal. It is stunning.

Therefore, I cannot understand the brush-off of the significance of the Murder For Hire plot by so many. I've read comments like, "well he's still alive"; "it's a he said/she said"; "it was a joke"," LE may have lied", "the fact that she hasn't been arrested means it's nothing."

IMO, Kaine's complete reversal in regard to Terri, his immediate filing for divorce, the taking of Baby K and filing of the RO, and Terri's submission and refusal to fight for Baby K...speak volumes.

There may not be enough to indict, but there was enough to convince a man who, until that moment, was completely supportive of his wife. There is not one action or comment prior to police presenting Kaine with their MFH evidence wherein Kaine puts Terri in a bad light or blames her at all.

What I see is a husband (Kaine) who was extremely protective of his wife.... from the day his son disappeared... to the day LE shared whatever evidence and proof of this plot they have. This is exactly why I believe the MFH plot is not only credible but contains information that is devastating to Terri. I do not believe that Kaine would be easily swayed from defense of his wife. In fact, I believe he would have pushed back against LE if this accusation were frivolous.

Prior to that day,Kaine defended Teri and pushed back against all who even tried to suspect her from the beginning.

He is aware that almost immediately, Terri is upset as she begins reading comments on the Internet accusing her. "People are blaming me. "she says. She tries defending herself online. Kaine must be getting an earful at home...just at the time he is dealing with the disappearance of Kyron. But he makes Terri a priority.

I think his first reaction is to shelter her... decides to avoid the media and he tells her that will be their plan. Terri's comment to this effect IMO is signaling this. "Kaine says not to speak to the press. "she says. I think she is telling people...they have a joint front. As a child would say, "My Mom says to ignore you"

But Terri is unable to ignore the media coverage, the hateful comments. She begins defending herself under articles. Now Kaine says and does a number of things again that show his support. I think the Intel email was Kaine reacting to Terri's hurt and frustration.

"All,
If you have seen local Oregon news or been browsing the internet or FaceBook there is a good chance you have seen an article similar to the one that Becky forwarded (below)

snip

2. Do not speak to any media if contacted; I am trying to contact Intel legal to give them the heads up and help with this situation"

http://ackerlaw.com/posts/2010/06/07/missing_child__kyron_horman_7

What is "the situation?" It's Terri being treated like a suspect.

I think this is a warning shot...the media is upsetting my innocent wife. I'll take this to legal if I have to and none of you better add fuel to the fire.

Then came the exclusion of the Oregonian and Willamette News:


"Horman said the family didn&#8217;t like The Oregonian&#8217;s coverage and wanted them to leave. Horman said the daily had failed to be a &#8220;team player.&#8221;"

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/...the-oregonian/

Kaine himself was certainly not seeing anything in these newspapers that targeted or alluded suspicion on HIM. But there were articles beginning to question Terri, hateful comments under articles about Terri. Kaine, in everything he does, IMO, is protecting the wife he loves...he neither suspects her or blames her.

Prior to whatever the police tell him in their bombshell revelation...there are quotes from Kaine that defend Terri.

Here is one BeanE posted:

"I can't really comment necessarily on how Terri's coping with the situation but she's working as hard as we are to cooperate and work with investigators to help find him."

Kaine Horman, first week of July
__________________

When we read in the media that Terri's cell phone pings are coming from Sauvie island and do not match where she says she was...and police put together a flier with Terri's photo...Kaine minimizes this to the media again.

"They said they think search teams were frequently spotted on Sauvie Island because Kyron's been on several field trips there, and his family visits a pumpkin patch."

snip

"That includes a flier the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office released last week that shows pictures of Terri Horman and a pickup similar to one she was driving June 4. A questionnaire with the flier asks people if they saw Terri Horman or the truck at Skyline School that day. Investigators have said she was the last person to report seeing Kyron at school.

Kaine Horman said he fully supported the release of the questions and flier, saying they were another way to gather information about Kyron -- not something aimed at his wife."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i..._reveal_n.html

Kaine Horman pushed back every time his wife was criticized. He cradled her in his arms at the first press conference. How credible is it that he would take some stranger's word with nothing else...and just rip himself and Baby K out of a marriage? He had already lost his son. I can't believe he would WANT to believe this about Terri. I think Kaine would NEED to feel someone loved him in this awful time. He would need that feeling of a "team." I believe he would have threatened LE with all sorts of repercussions if he thought Terri was being slandered. He had been a pitbull in her defense up till that moment.

This is why I believe he was shown devastating proof. Proof none of her pretty words could explain away. Maybe not enough to indict but enough to destroy his faith in the woman he believed her to be. Terri was "exposed" to Kaine (and Desiree) in more than one way. At a time when his child is missing, Kaine finds out the woman he has been protecting, defending...is a complete fraud. And a dangerous one.

This is why I am so puzzled when the MFH plot is so easily dismissed and Kaine criticized for leaving. There is something devastating there. Kaine's complete reversal is the ultimate proof.

Kaine trusted and protected Terri right up until LE showed him what they had. It defies reason to think it's just nothing.

 

[Trident]

OH, the irony. Sickening.

I don't see any irony, sickening, or otherwise. I see a woman confused, thrown away like dirt. I have to ask myself WHY KH was so quick to throw away his wife, companion, and mother of his child - even though he obviously did it before with DY. Strange this keeps on happening.

My opinion only

 

[stmarysmead]

I don't see any irony, sickening, or otherwise. I see a woman confused, thrown away like dirt. I have to ask myself WHY KH was so quick to throw away his wife, companion, and mother of his child - even though he obviously did it before with DY. Strange this keeps on happening.

My opinion only

Respectfully, do you not think being convinced that your wife was trying to kill you is a reason? He was not "quick" to throw her away at all. He defended her, protected her, stood up to the media for her.

Please find me ONE quote prior to Kaine being told of the Murder for Hire where he blames Terri, criticizes Terri, or says anything negative about her?

He was not "quick" like Ron Cummings who immediately asked Misty how she could lose his child and swore at her during the 911 call.

It is rewriting the script to say he was "quick" or "threw her away like dirt." It took something MAJOR to turn him. And it must be huge. Kaine was a pitbull in going against the press..for HER. That could not have been easy. He needed the press to help find Kyron...yet he stood by Terri. Kaine was never under scrutiny. It was Terri, the stepmother, the last to see Kyron.

A man leaving his wife AFTER police tell him she tried to have him killed is not deserving of the phrase.."He threw her away like dirt."

 

[Trident]

Respectfully, do you not think being convinced that your wife was trying to kill you is a reason? He was not "quick" to throw her away at all. He defended her, protected her, stood up to the media for her.

Please find me ONE quote prior to Kaine being told of the Murder for Hire where he blames Terri, criticizes Terri, or says anything negative about her?

He was not "quick" like Ron Cummings who immediately asked Misty how she could lose his child and swore at her during the 911 call.

It is rewriting the script to say he was "quick" or "threw her away like dirt." It took something MAJOR to turn him. And it must be huge. Kaine was a pitbull in going against the press..for HER. That could not have been easy. He needed the press to help find Kyron...yet he stood by Terri. Kaine was never under scrutiny. It was Terri, the stepmother, the last to see Kyron.

A man leaving his wife AFTER police tell him she tried to have him killed is not deserving of the phrase.."He threw her away like dirt."

Respectfully, I must disagree. We have no proof/evidence of WHAT LE told KH. Did LE put out a PR on this? Link?

KH dumped DY for TH, that is a fact from DY, in her own words, paraphrased, "why weren't we good enough?"

I honestly believe, and I've met 'em, some men keep on hunting. Naturally I can't say KH is one of them, but his track record........? Who can say?

I, like LE, have not cleared ANYONE yet. Further, I believe TH's email was a heartfelt, honest plea to the person who was her husband. I find NO fault in that - it only makes me wonder.

My opinion only

 

[stmarysmead]

Respectfully, I must disagree. We have no proof/evidence of WHAT LE told KH. Did LE put out a PR on this? Link?

KH dumped DY for TH, that is a fact from DY, in her own words, paraphrased, "why weren't we good enough?"

I honestly believe, and I've met 'em, some men keep on hunting. Naturally I can't say KH is one of them, but his track record........? Who can say?

I, like LE, have not cleared ANYONE yet. Further, I believe TH's email was a heartfelt, honest plea to the person who was her husband. I find NO fault in that - it only makes me wonder.

My opinion only

If you disagree that Kaine was totally supportive of Terri PRIOR to being told she wanted him murdered (which is a Biggie) will you post those links?

WE do know LE believed the MURDER FOR HIRE plot. We also know Terri was "hunting" herself ...sexting and so forth. How can you condemn one way and excuse the other?

Kaine was a loving supportive husband to Terri...unless you can give me proof otherwise.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I don't have a top indicator showing me that Terri is the one who did this.

I try to look at it as if she is the one but then that makes me have more questions than answers because many things do not add up for me when assuming Terri is the one.

I will be so glad when actual evidence is presented one way or the other instead of meaningless PCs that tell us nothing.

IMO

 

[SacreBleu]

KH dumped DY for TH, that is a fact from DY, in her own words, paraphrased, "why weren't we good enough?"

Link please.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

If you disagree that Kaine was totally supportive of Terri PRIOR to being told she wanted him murdered (which is a Biggie) will you post those links?

WE do know LE believed the MURDER FOR HIRE plot. We also know Terri was "hunting" herself ...sexting and so forth. How can you condemn one way and excuse the other?

Kaine was a loving supportive husband to Terri...unless you can give me proof otherwise.

The poster clearly states that this is their opinion only.

Kaine has been very guarded about his own personal life with Terri before this happened so not being able to link it doesn't mean Kaine was a loving supportive husband to Terri. He may have been or he may not have been.

I don't fault Kaine in wanting to keep his family matters quiet but IMOO I do think he is very aware of why Terri may have wanted to hire a hit man but Kaine is remaining mum about it.

Although I am not sure I even believe there is evidence that she did try to hire someone. The LS may have had his own skeletons in his closet and when approached by LE he may have thought claiming Terri had tried to hire him would put him in better favor with LE. We just don't know the circumstances behind his motives to keep quiet for months on end and then spill the beans only when called in for questioning when Kyron went missing.

IMO

 

[BeanE]

Link please.

25 minute audio interview with the Oregonian. Link in the Reference Forum, in the All parent/stepparent thread. Search the thread for keyword minute and it'll pop right up.

 

[BeanE]

Much of my belief in Terri's guilt hinges on the Murder-for Hire plot.

Good morning, SMM

How so? Let's assume that LE has released hard evidence that Terri conspired in a MFH plot. Hard, indisputable evidence that we all accept.

What about that makes you believe Terri is guilty of a crime in Kyron's disappearance? Do you need other evidence of Terri's guilt in a crime regarding Kyron? Or is the MFH regarding Kaine enough?

TIA!

 

[Trident]

Link please.

It's there, and as soon as I have time, I'll supply it, in DY's own words when she wondered why she and her son weren't enough.