Israel Keyes: General Discussion

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bessie said:
Link to most recent Maura Murray thread, with links to previous threads in the opening post. This is in Missing but Not Forgotten, 2000's.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12196334
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my thread in cold cases was closed after somebody posted a link to a thread about her. i did a general forum search but didn't look too hard. i did visit the thread somebody else had posted; most people believe she died. more and more, i believe she took off and she's living another life (and i expect that life would be criminal).
 
I think IK should have stayed in the Army. I don't know his motives for joining, but it wouldn't surprise me if he signed up because he was an adrenaline junkie who wanted to kill people. Unfortunately, he got out months before 9/11 and the kickoff of the Afghanistan war, so he never saw a day of combat. What if he had stayed in another couple of years and got a taste of war? I think he probably would have been hooked on deployment life. The M.O. with most his killings seemed very military-like and clandestine, almost like he was living out the fantasy of being a super secret hitman. Who buries caches, memorizes their grid coordinates, and then goes back to them years later to use in a job? Israel Keys Super-Spy Extraordinaire, that's who. You could argue that IK was just very calculating in his kills because he didn't want to get caught, but this guy was also running around robbing banks during this time. That's reckless, no matter how good you are at robbing banks. No, I think his primary drive was his need for adrenaline, the thrill of the kill, and the pride he took in his tactics and techniques that he'd honed. He shoulda stayed in.
 
From my reading, he only started killing AFTER his military deployment, so it could also be that he became desensitized & further disturbed while serving.

Not to be disrespectful to soldiers, but when ex-military guys go off, they go off BIG. Tim McVeigh, Christopher Dorner, Israel Keyes, Charles Whitman, Robert Lee Yates, Berkowitz, Eddie Ray Routh, Dean Corll, Jeffrey Dahmer, Dennis Rader, Leonard Lake & Arthur Shawcross all served in the military at one point, and that's just a few off the list. Could be that violent creeps are drawn to the military life due to the violence and excitement, but I think there's also a downplayed trauma that takes place & permanently changes a person after going to war. IMO, war is more the "cause" than the "effect" when it comes to violence here in civilian land.

MOO of course.
 
Occams Razor said:
From my reading, he only started killing AFTER his military deployment, so it could also be that he became desensitized & further disturbed while serving.

Not to be disrespectful to soldiers, but when ex-military guys go off, they go off BIG. Tim McVeigh, Christopher Dorner, Israel Keyes, Charles Whitman, Robert Lee Yates, Berkowitz, Eddie Ray Routh, Dean Corll, Jeffrey Dahmer, Dennis Rader, Leonard Lake & Arthur Shawcross all served in the military at one point, and that's just a few off the list. Could be that violent creeps are drawn to the military life due to the violence and excitement, but I think there's also a downplayed trauma that takes place & permanently changes a person after going to war. IMO, war is more the "cause" than the "effect" when it comes to violence here in civilian land.

MOO of course.
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My take on that stuff is some folks are not of a sound mind when they join. Quite frankly, some just slip through the cracks in the service, anyway.

I don't think any of those mentioned in your post had a service record which was remarkable, or merely noteworthy, in any way.

Upon autopsy, it was revealed Whitman had a brain tumor, which in some experts' opinions definitely contributed to what he did.

Did Shawcross' service contribute to what he did? Absolutely not, he never saw combat, and came across as downright delusional in the interviews shared at trial. "Delusional" is the key word, here, and I'd imagine several of the vets mentioned in your post fit that description.

Did Shawcross' military service contribute to what he did in Watertown, NY, back in the 70's? I believe sick people like him are screwed up well before they sign up to go into the service.
 
Just watched the June 7th interview. Wow this guy is really a narcissist, only caring what he gets.
It angered me watching it, but I also felt horrible if any of the victims families etc watched the interviews. Its disgusting thinking he is trying to reason with the detectives.
 
Anyone have a link to the FBI interview transcripts that's still good? .gov took it down awhile back.
 
I don't know if this post is allowed or not. I will try to flag it so that mods can review it. I know like myself there are many that were obsessed with this case but unfortunately due to no further information released by the FBI the thread has just fizzled out. There is a podcast in the works that can be found by searching True Crime BS and they are raising money to get the FBI documents under the FOIA. Is that even possible? If the FBI has this as an open ongoing investigation would these be available? When are these documents available under the FOIA?
 
Iwatchingeye said:
Unsealed interviews detail two lives of Alaska serial killer Israel Keyes

Not much new here but I haven't seen this posted about the unsealed records.
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Sorry to reply to my own comments but I was thinking....so they made some of the recording public initially but they had others sealed. Nothing in this link is really news to those of us who have followed this story. This story really doesn't tell what was in the unsealed interviews. Where can we see these if they are unsealed?
 
Dumas911 said:
Could this be Israel Keys?

UNKNOWN SUSPECT
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The hairline does not look like Keyes to me ....
Falling Down said:
My take on that stuff is some folks are not of a sound mind when they join. Quite frankly, some just slip through the cracks in the service, anyway.

I don't think any of those mentioned in your post had a service record which was remarkable, or merely noteworthy, in any way.

Upon autopsy, it was revealed Whitman had a brain tumor, which in some experts' opinions definitely contributed to what he did.

Did Shawcross' service contribute to what he did? Absolutely not, he never saw combat, and came across as downright delusional in the interviews shared at trial. "Delusional" is the key word, here, and I'd imagine several of the vets mentioned in your post fit that description.

Did Shawcross' military service contribute to what he did in Watertown, NY, back in the 70's? I believe sick people like him are screwed up well before they sign up to go into the service.
Click to expand...

Keyes had a history of animal cruelty at least in his teens ....
 
addictedtocereal said:
Just watched the June 7th interview. Wow this guy is really a narcissist, only caring what he gets.
It angered me watching it, but I also felt horrible if any of the victims families etc watched the interviews. Its disgusting thinking he is trying to reason with the detectives.
Click to expand...

I agree, trading information for cigars and coffee....In one of his interviews with the FBI it is said that he seemed to be reliving one of his victims murder ....I think that might be one of the interviews kept from the public ...
 
badboi2323 said:
I think IK should have stayed in the Army. I don't know his motives for joining, but it wouldn't surprise me if he signed up because he was an adrenaline junkie who wanted to kill people. Unfortunately, he got out months before 9/11 and the kickoff of the Afghanistan war, so he never saw a day of combat. What if he had stayed in another couple of years and got a taste of war? I think he probably would have been hooked on deployment life. The M.O. with most his killings seemed very military-like and clandestine, almost like he was living out the fantasy of being a super secret hitman. Who buries caches, memorizes their grid coordinates, and then goes back to them years later to use in a job? Israel Keys Super-Spy Extraordinaire, that's who. You could argue that IK was just very calculating in his kills because he didn't want to get caught, but this guy was also running around robbing banks during this time. That's reckless, no matter how good you are at robbing banks. No, I think his primary drive was his need for adrenaline, the thrill of the kill, and the pride he took in his tactics and techniques that he'd honed. He shoulda stayed in.
Click to expand...

I think that he enjoyed the planning , stalking and choosing his victims as much as he did killing and raping them.....
 
I found this last minute or so of episode 0214 - True Crime BS podcast particularly interesting. Many of you who have read transcripts or seen video are quite familiar with this, but for those who are not ... this is only a very small snippet of Keyes being questioned by LE. IMO, it's just another example of killers lurking and participating online.

Keyes: "... I just kept checking back on the story and kind of getting a kick out of the different things that the investigators would say."

Investigator: "Knowing if they are right or wrong?" / "Or knowing that they're wrong? Something like that?"

Keyes: "Yeah, and seeing the difference because obviously I mean, I know what happened, seeing the difference between their perspective versus my perspective. And then on top of that when people would read the news stories and everybody wants to comment on it - like their theories of what happened. And so, I got really hooked on that too cause it was entertaining to me I guess. "

Investigator: "Did you join in? Did you comment on any of those?"

Keyes: "Yeah"
 
fred&edna said:
I found this last minute or so of episode 0214 - True Crime BS podcast particularly interesting. Many of you who have read transcripts or seen video are quite familiar with this, but for those who are not ... this is only a very small snippet of Keyes being questioned by LE. IMO, it's just another example of killers lurking and participating online.

Keyes: "... I just kept checking back on the story and kind of getting a kick out of the different things that the investigators would say."

Investigator: "Knowing if they are right or wrong?" / "Or knowing that they're wrong? Something like that?"

Keyes: "Yeah, and seeing the difference because obviously I mean, I know what happened, seeing the difference between their perspective versus my perspective. And then on top of that when people would read the news stories and everybody wants to comment on it - like their theories of what happened. And so, I got really hooked on that too cause it was entertaining to me I guess. "

Investigator: "Did you join in? Did you comment on any of those?"

Keyes: "Yeah"
Click to expand...

He got off on the secretive 'kill'. It's not surprising that he got off on what people were saying. There are many threads here on WS where I believe the killer is participating in the discussion or listening, at a minimum. The Audrey Gleave case is one in particular.
 
Jumping in here because i'm currently reading American Predator as well as listening to the True Crime BS podcast. My main objective, as I think is the majority's, is to look into possible victims. These are the 3 I'm currently kicking around:

1. Brandon Swanson
2. Steven Koecher
3. Suzy Lyall

Suzy is the most substantial of the 3 and there's a decent amount of information out there with compelling arguments for Keyes's being responsible. So I won't discuss it right now.

I'm interested in bouncing around the possibility of Brandon and Steven though. I'm going to break it up into 2 posts so I don't write one post turned novella here :)
 
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The timeline of Keyes's travel from 1998 - 2012 is great, though not perfect. But when I was going over it again, I noticed he flew into Minneapolis in October of 2008 before driving to Grand Forks, ND. I started searching around for missing people in Minnesota during that time but couldn't find anything for the end of October 2008. Brandon did disappear in May of 2008 though. The timeline does not account for Keyes's whereabouts in May of 2008. Although he claimed to never have killed in the same place twice, I wouldn't put it past him to revisit crime scenes. Marshall is southwest of the Twin Cities area by about 2 hours. A usual route between Mpls and Grand Forks is not going to see someone making it through Marshall. However, that's not to say he couldn't have made a detour to Marshall and then made a straight shot north to GF. I wish we were able to find out the exact route/roads he took.

I know Keyes claimed to pick victims at complete random, and he probably did honestly believe that, but human psychology may suggest otherwise. Though Brandon and Israel don't look identical, I do see somewhat of a resemblance particularly if you look at photos of Brandon without glasses. They appear to have a similar body type - tall and lean, eye shape is similar, and so is the wavy brown hair. And without taking too deep a psychological dive, it's pretty obvious that someone who inflicted so much harm on others didn't love themselves. Maybe Brandon represented a sort of manifestation of himself, or what he could have had if he had been dealt a different hand in life if he perceived Brandon to be living a typical normal, loving life -- was in school, parties with friends, had a car, etc.

As for Steven, we know that Keyes did go to Vegas a few different times in his life. Steven was Mormon, and Israel had been raised Mormon, so that may be a loose psychological connection. His whereabouts from October 2009 to December 17, 2009 were not indicated in the timeline. What did raise a flag for me was that December 17, 2009 was the day Israel boarded a cruise. Steven went missing on December 13, 2009. Maybe Israel's style was to go on a cruise after killing someone. We know that he flew out the same morning he killed Samantha to go on a cruise. Again, he would claim he had no MO but humans are creatures of habit. If he immediately went on a cruise after killing Samantha, I'm willing to bet that he had also killed someone before the December 17, 2009 cruise.

I know my reasonings here are grasping at straws at best. But given that we know Keyes was extremely meticulous and cagey paired with both Brandon and Steven's cases having almost no solid leads to work with, I thought why not toss the idea out there? I'd love to discuss it with everyone​
 
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MesquiteO21 said:
Jumping in here because i'm currently reading American Predator as well as listening to the True Crime BS podcast. My main objective, as I think is the majority's, is to look into possible victims. These are the 3 I'm currently kicking around:

1. Brandon Swanson
2. Steven Koecher
3. Suzy Lyall

Suzy is the most substantial of the 3 and there's a decent amount of information out there with compelling arguments for Keyes's being responsible. So I won't discuss it right now.

I'm interested in bouncing around the possibility of Brandon and Steven though. I'm going to break it up into 2 posts so I don't write one post turned novella here :)
Click to expand...

I've mentioned Suzy Lyall before as a possibility, good call.
 
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