Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #3

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Are the people of Gaza City so helpless that they cannot make their own decisions? Israel told them to leave...
I would not say that Gaza City people are helpless. Rather, they are probably like the refugees that I worked with in Africa and are facing no good options:

Objectively, I understand that Israel is not to blame and that leaving is better than getting killed in fighting. But.... sometimes situations "from the inside" can be far more complex that they appear from the outside. For example:

- Many people in conflict zones don't just pile into their SUV, cruise to area "A", then check into a nice safe hotel for a few weeks via credit cards. Use same credit cards to purchase readily available restaurant meals. Meanwhile, insurance replaces anything lost at home.

- Rather, fleeing involves leaving irreplaceable possessions and businesses behind. Wars often lead to break downs in law and order. This increases the chances of refugees being victimized by criminals. Likewise, not all "safe places" have food and water. (how "safe" and well stocked was the New Orleans Superdome in the USA during peace time?)

- The last time a million Palestinians left their homes, they were not permitted to return. Their homes were then considered "abandoned". "Abandoned" homes could then be claimed by new owners- all fully legal (wink, nod).
 
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I'm sure those being asked to evacuate Gaza would like more time to plan, options of places to go, etc. (Wouldn't we all?!) But as others have said, there's simply no time, and options are limited. It is what it is...no offense intended.
More time? Hamas waged war last weekend, a week ago.

Gaza City had ample time prior to waging war to prepare, plan and stockpile everything they needed for some time to come. They knew that there would be a strong retaliation to butchering civilians. They have been given an additional 24 hour warning to evacuate and travel roughly 10 km. Now is not the time for people of Gaza City to pretend that they are caught off guard.
 

Israeli army fires towards Lebanon after explosion at border fence​

The Israel Defense Forces say an explosion caused "light damage" to a security fence on Israel's border with Lebanon, near the northern kibbutz of Hanita. Its troops are "responding with artillery fire toward Lebanese territory," the IDF said in a statement.

"Additionally, an alert was activated concerning the infiltration of terrorists into the community. IDF soldiers are currently searching the area."

There are fears a new front could open up in the war if Lebanese Shia movement Hezbollah decides to get involved and attack Israel in support of its Palestinian allies.


(BBM) This frightens me even more.
 
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More time? Hamas waged war last weekend, a week ago.

Gaza City had ample time prior to waging war to prepare, plan and stockpile everything they needed for some time to come. They knew that there would be a strong retaliation to butchering civilians. They have been given an additional 24 hour warning to evacuate and travel roughly 10 km. Now is not the time for people of Gaza City to pretend that they are caught off guard.
Gaza City did not have ample time to prepare for war.

Rather, HAMAS had ample time to prepare for war- and probably made all kinds of arrangements for themselves and their immediate families. Most people in Gaza, however, did not vote for Hamas, let alone are member of HAMAS.

Had HAMAS tipped off "Gaza City" to start stockpiling "this and that" their secret attack plans would no longer have been secret.
 
Thinking about the young Israeli reservists from across the world who are now preparing for a ground excursion as they fight the war against terrorism in the Gaza Strip. Urban warfare in such a dense environment is Israel's worse nightmare, especially with the hostage situation.
 

Where do they expect these people to go? Mostly women and children. Egypt doesn't want them. It would be like telling the city of San Francisco to empty out. Where would they go?

Exactly. I’m sharing a picture here that shows how the Palestinians have been slowly forced into a smaller and smaller land area since 1947. My understanding is they are historically nomadic people, now forced to live in high rise apartments, basically ghettos. They have very little. If they leave, they know there will be nothing to return to, IMO.
 

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More time? Hamas waged war last weekend, a week ago.

Gaza City had ample time prior to waging war to prepare, plan and stockpile everything they needed for some time to come. They knew that there would be a strong retaliation to butchering civilians. They have been given an additional 24 hour warning to evacuate and travel roughly 10 km. Now is not the time for people of Gaza City to pretend that they are caught off guard.
Agreed.
If nothing else, if Hamas didn't allow them to stockpile food/fuel/etc., they still had time to flee.
Omo.
 
Families members confirmed today that Judith and Natalie Rannan of Evanston are being held hostage by Hamas after they were kidnapped when the kibutz they were visiting was raided. “I pray for them to come back alive."

Natalie’s uncle Avi Zamir said while Israeli government officials have confirmed that the Natalie and Judith are both hostages, they do not know whether they mother and daughter are together.

 
I hope the protests in the US today will be duds. I hope they have low turnout. (MOO)

I think the DSA got the message and don't think they will be supporting today's demonstrations

(For a group that's anti-war and against anti-Semitism, they sure picked the wrong hill to die on...MOO, MOO)

I know some will show up, (they always do)

Dreading them.

I checked the Democratic Socialists of America and didn't see anything on their website or SM.

They caught a lot of blacklash over Sunday's demonstration and lost influential members over it.

There is a now a blanket statement both sides, blah, blah, blah, but nothing about today's demonstrations. (The both sides stuff IMO is more a long term thing, but right now is not long term.) MOO MOO MOO. Right now is not about what has been going on for decades.
Right now:
  • Hamas in Gaza is still holding Israeli's hostage.
  • Israel faced a massive assault on Oct 7 and must eradicate this horrible threat.
  • Israel is still being bombed and it has a right to protect itself.
  • Israel needs to protect itself


We need to support Israel, however individuals have varying views on how to get out of this mess. MOO)

I think their support of Sunday's demonstrations by the DSA was one of the reasons for the high turnout.
(Fingers crossed for low turnout....)







The progressive New York Jewish Agenda said: “DSA has a right to free speech, but their speech here — a celebration of death and destruction — is showing New Yorkers something deeply disturbing about them.”

Paywall After Attack on Israel, Politicians Are Asked, ‘Which Side Are You On?’
The co-chair of the NYC-DSA is Jewish (He indicated this in a 2020 article)
He said they promoted Sunday's rally at the request of a Palestinian solidary group, but he wasn't sure which group. (Hello??- MOO)
He said they are against war, but did not communicate it in a sensitive way. (That's certainly an understatement! -MOO)

(Once again this is long-term, not short term - MOO) According to the NY Times article DSA has Jews in it's membership, old and young alike, have strongly opposed the country’s right-wing government, which they believe is weakening democracy and fear could undermine the possibility of Jews and Palestinians coexisting peacefully.


From 2020. Jewish members of NYC-DSA wrote an article standing in solidarity with Palestine. (The co-chair referenced is in the NY Times is one of the signers) Keep in mind, this is from 2020.
Jewish NYC-DSA Members’ Response to NYS Assemblymembers’ Smear
 
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