Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #3

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Cryptic said:
I would not say that Gaza City people are helpless. Rather, they are probably like the refugees that I worked with in Africa and are facing no good options:

Objectively, I understand that Israel is not to blame and that leaving is better than getting killed in fighting. But.... sometimes situations "from the inside" can be far more complex that they appear from the outside. For example:

- Many people in conflict zones don't just pile into their SUV, cruise to area "A", then check into a nice safe hotel for a few weeks via credit cards. Use same credit cards to purchase readily available restaurant meals. Meanwhile, insurance replaces anything lost at home.

- Rather, fleeing involves leaving irreplaceable possessions and businesses behind. Wars often lead to break downs in law and order. This increases the chances of refugees being victimized by criminals. Likewise, not all "safe places" have food and water. (how "safe" and well stocked was the New Orleans Superdome in the USA during peace time?)

- The last time a million Palestinians left their homes, they were not permitted to return. Their homes were then considered "abandoned". "Abandoned" homes could then be claimed by new owners- all fully legal (wink, nod).
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IDK said:
Exactly. I’m sharing a picture here that shows how the Palestinians have been slowly forced into a smaller and smaller land area since 1947. My understanding is they are historically nomadic people, now forced to live in high rise apartments, basically ghettos. They have very little. If they leave, they know there will be nothing to return to, IMO.
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I understand the Palestinians have numerous legitimate grievances against Israel. I think they should be given a country to live in independently and freely, if they leave Israel in peace. However, Hamas has not been open to any peaceful solutions as far as I know and neither has Hezbollah. It's very hard for me to support the Palestinians given this and their engrained hatred towards Jews. That being said, I oppose the slaughter of innocents on either side.

time.com

The Hate That Drove the Hamas Attack

The Hamas massacre of Israelis was a function of pure hate. We need to fight antisemitism globally.
time.com time.com
 
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Kaley Smith said:
I understand the Palestinians have numerous legitimate grievances against Israel. I think they should be given a country to live in independently and freely, if they leave Israel in peace.
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The ones willing to co exist with Israel (West Bank / Fatah) have a country of sorts.

But.... their country keeps shrinking in the de facto sense. Continued settlement construction is, of course, fully legal (cough, cough)
apnews.com

Israel OK's plans for thousands of new settlement homes, defying White House calls for restraint

Israeli media say the country's far-right government has approved plans to build over 5,000 of new homes in Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank.
apnews.com apnews.com
 
www.websleuths.com

Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #2

Nearly 50% of the population of Gaza and Western Bank is under the age of 18. Yeah I'm getting tired of the argument that most Palestinians want Hamas to lead them since they were elected in 2006. Seventeen years ago. 1. More than 50% of Palestinians did NOT vote for Hamas. 2. If nearly 50% of...
www.websleuths.com www.websleuths.com

Extracted the link from post #1,048 , Thread # 2 :

www.vox.com

Benjamin Netanyahu failed Israel

We can now be sure: His policy of repressing Palestinians doesn’t make Israelis safe.
www.vox.com www.vox.com

“There was a need for more soldiers, so where did they take them from? From the Gaza border, where they thought it was calm ... not surprising that Hamas and Islamic Jihad noticed the low staffing at the border,”
Rbm.

I can't help but wonder if there was more failures in security than this ?
Somewhere there was a lapse in security.

Otoh, imagine trying to live in a nation where other people/nations are constantly trying to harm you ?
No one's security is going to be perfect all of the time.
Imagine what Israel has to put up with on a 24/7 basis !
Imo.

"Once Israel has declared its intention to never let that land go, and created realities on the ground that make its withdrawal unimaginable, the Palestinians will reconcile themselves to the new reality —"
Red bolding mine.
This is on the Hamas gov't.; that may or may not have been forced on the Palestinians; and not necessarily Netanyahu/Israel ?

Also from the link from post #1,408 :

Second, a columnist at Israel’s Ha’aretz newspaper unearthed evidence that Netanyahu has intentionally propped up Hamas rule in Gaza — seeing Palestinian extremism as a bulwark against a two-state solution to the conflict.
These exact comments have not yet been confirmed by other sources.
Emphasis mine.

There is no proof as yet that Netanyahu used the word 'Genocide'.
"Unearthed evidence ", is not 'proof'.

I don't believe that Israel's leaders want anything but safety and freedom for their people.

As far as 'crushing', yes, Hamas needs to be dealt with, or Saturday's atrocity against Israel could happen again.
Imo.
Omo.
 
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Gardenista said:
Moshe Schwartz
@YWNReporter
·
51s

IDF released footage showing Hamas terrorists firing off rockets from within the Al-Shati refugee camp in northern Gaza. The IDF responded by striking the launch area. @GeoConfirmed 31.551616,34.467972
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Hamas is known to place legitimate military targets in/under schools, mosques, hospitals etc. This is what terrorists do. Ergo those places end up on the target lists ... that is why warnings in advance are issued - to minimize the civilian casulaties when the target is hit. Terrorists care not about the ppulace of civilians, they care about retaining their grip of control and power.

My only wish is that as many civilians as are able to manage to understand the importance of the need for them to move south and make their way out and to rid themselves of Hamas.
 
35s ago

ICRC: Hamas attack does not justify 'limitless destruction' of Gaza​

The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) has called for the immediate release of hostages taken by Hamas during the attacks on Israellast weekend, but said those attacks “cannot in turn justify the limitless destruction of Gaza”.

In a statement on Friday, the ICRC said “nothing can justify the horrific attacks Israel suffered”.

Our hearts go out to people who lost family members or are worried sick about loved ones taken hostage. We reiterate our call for their immediate release and stand ready to conduct humanitarian visits.
But those attacks cannot in turn justify the limitless destruction of Gaza. The parties must not neglect their legal obligations regarding the methods and means used to wage war.
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Israel’s army for 1.1million residents of northern Gaza to evacuate within 24 hours, along with the blockade of Gaza denying them food, water, and electricity “are not compatible with international humanitarian law”, the ICRC said.

Gazans had “nowhere safe to go” and it was “impossible” for them to know which areas “will next face attack”, it said.

www.theguardian.com

UN says tens of thousands have fled south in Gaza after Israel’s evacuation order – as it happened

More than 400,000 in Gaza were already internally displaced before Israel’s evacuation order, UN humanitarian office says
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 

Palestinians fear being uprooted once more​


Paul Adams
Diplomatic correspondent

For Palestinians in Gaza, Israel’s warning for them to leave has profound historical and psychological implications.

Many are descended from the 200,000 Palestinians who arrived in the Gaza Strip in 1948, during what they all know to this day as the "naqba", or catastrophe.

They fled or were driven from their homes by the forces of the newly created state of Israel. Many came from areas surrounding the Gaza Strip where Israelis live today.

The thought of being driven from their homes once more is profoundly traumatic.

"Hold on to your homes," is the message being broadcast from mosques this morning. "Hold on to your land."

Israel withdrew a few thousand Jewish settlers from the Gaza Strip in 2005. The settlements have long gone and no Israeli government has ever proposed setting them up again.

But in the panic surrounding last night's Israeli warning, Palestinians inevitably fear another naqba might be looming.

 
PommyMommy said:
Live updates: Israel-Hamas war rages as Palestinian death toll in Gaza rises from attacks (cnn.com)
33 min ago

US defense secretary: "This is no time for neutrality, or for false equivalence"​

A forceful US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin pledged unwavering US support to Israel in the wake of the deadly Hamas attack, stressing that “this is no time for neutrality, or for false equivalence or for excuses for the inexcusable.”

“In times like these, sometimes the best thing that a friend can do is just to show up and to get to work,” said Austin emphatically offering full US support to Israel at a joint news conference.

The defense secretary who is traveling to Israel today offered a soft reminder to the Israelis that “this is a time for resolve and not revenge” as the IDF is under scrutiny for causing civilian casualties in Gaza in response to the Hamas attack.

“Democracies like ours are stronger and more secure when we uphold the laws of war,” Austin said.

Austin also pledged continued US support with munitions. Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant said Israel is expecting the second shipment of lethal military aid from the US today as Israel warns civilians to evacuate Gaza.

“US security assistance to Israel will flow in at the speed of war,” said Austin.
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This is such a contradiction statement. While supplying lethal weapons, US Defense Minis
<modsnip - quoted post was removed for not an approved source, not a news source, official govt source, etc.>
 
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IDF says no infiltration from Lebanon​

We earlier reported that the IDF had told people in Hanita - an Israeli community close to the Lebanon border - that an alert was activated about an "infiltration into the community".

IDF has now released another statement, saying that following searches in the area, they have ruled out any "infiltration".

"Furthermore, a shooting was identified toward a number of military posts at the Lebanese border. IDF soldiers responded with tank fire toward Hezbollah terrorist infrastructure. In addition, IDF artillery fired toward the source of the shooting. IDF soldiers are deployed in the area," the statement added.

 
Chimera said:
...
I can't help but wonder if there was more failures in security than this ?
Somewhere there was a lapse in security.
...
Click to expand...
I see the conspiracy theories are making their way about. Israel did NOT allow this to happen. They simply cannot afford to allow wars "to happen."

Of course there were security failures and there were warnings that may have been 'geo-misplaced' by Israel. I use the word geo-misplaced as I suspect Israel may have thought the threat was to the west bank area where the population of Jewish persons is more highly concentrated than the Kibbutz' dotting the south and bordering the Gaza.

I'll toss in this link for a good read. Hindsight is always 20/20, but this piece was published in August.

The answers to just "what went wrong" to allow this to ever happen in the first place will be forthcoming at some point in the future. It will studied to death so that it is never allowed to happen again.

But that time is not now. Israel has a war to fight right now. But I guarantee Israel will learn the lessons of what happened with this failure of security.

The simply HAVE TO learn those lessons because the minute they ever lose a war --- they will cease to exist. That is their reality. Every. Single. Day. They did not "allow" this war "to happen".

www.memri.org

Signs Of Possible War In September-October

Lately there have been growing indications that a war against Israel may break out in September or October 2023.
www.memri.org www.memri.org
Lately there have been growing indications that a war against Israel may break out in September or October 2023. The trigger may be spiraling violent clashes resulting in many casualties, or the use of new weapons leading to many fatalities on the Israeli side, in the face of which Israel will be unable to suffice with its regular counterterrorism measures.
...
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Footnote 1 is seeming very apt today.
 
53s ago

A Reuters videographer has been killed while working in southern Lebanon, the news agency said.

A Reuters statement said:

We are deeply saddened to learn that our videographer, Issam Abdallah, has been killed.
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Issam was part of the agency’s crew in southern Lebanon who was providing a live video signal, Reuters said.


32s ago
A journalist has been killed and six others injured after an Israeli shell landed in a gathering of international journalists covering clashes on the border in south Lebanon.

Al Jazeera said two of its employees, Elie Brakhya and reporter Carmen Joukhadar, were among the wounded.

The shelling occurred during an exchange of fire along the Lebanon-Israel border between Israeli troops and members of Lebanon’s militant Hezbollah group.

An AP photographer at the scene saw the body of the dead journalist and the six who were wounded, some of whom were rushed to hospitals in ambulances, the news agency reported.

www.theguardian.com

UN says tens of thousands have fled south in Gaza after Israel’s evacuation order – as it happened

More than 400,000 in Gaza were already internally displaced before Israel’s evacuation order, UN humanitarian office says
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
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