Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #8

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Robert McNamara who was Secretary of the War during the Johnson Administration (LBJ) in the USA in Vietnam and called the Architect of the Vietnam War said he learned a lot from that war he'd never repeat. He wrote a book which turned into a documentary (won many awards) called "The Fog of War" and really is worthwhile watching. It can be seen on YouTube for free in 10 parts or you can get the whole Documentary there too. The #1 lesson he took away is "Proportionality" which Israel does NOT follow at all. As of this morning, it was reported they had 1400 deaths there and Gaza (mostly young people dead incl. doctors, women & children) over 8,000 dead - no proportionality! There will be only more and more hatred caused from these wars in the future generations. Read McNamara or watch the documentary.

Proportionality has absolutely nothing to do with casualty count numbers. Zero.

Proportionality is about ensuring that you act proportionally to take out your military target. IE: you don't blow up a school to take out the rocket launch site on the roof while school is in session - you wait until school is out to minimize the risk of civilian casualties.

If you have senior leadership of Hamas meeting in a house, you direct the bomb (why Israel uses smart bombs and JDAMs) at that house.

IE: You don't napalm a road full of fleeing civilians because you 'think' there 'might' be VK amongst them.

 
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Robert McNamara who was Secretary of the War during the Johnson Administration (LBJ) in the USA in Vietnam and called the Architect of the Vietnam War said he learned a lot from that war he'd never repeat. He wrote a book which turned into a documentary (won many awards) called "The Fog of War" and really is worthwhile watching. It can be seen on YouTube for free in 10 parts or you can get the whole Documentary there too. The #1 lesson he took away is "Proportionality" which Israel does NOT follow at all. As of this morning, it was reported they had 1400 deaths there and Gaza (mostly young people dead incl. doctors, women & children) over 8,000 dead - no proportionality! There will be only more and more hatred caused from these wars in the future generations. Read McNamara or watch the documentary.

Thank you for the link— I need to watch the documentary. I totally agree there has been absolutely no proportionality in the numbers of innocent civilians killed in this war.
I dread that there are many more deaths to follow and continue to foment the vicious cycle.

“When will they ever learn…” Pete Seeger
 
Dear members of the Cornell community,

Earlier today, a series of horrendous, antisemitic messages threatening violence to our Jewish community and specifically naming 104 West — the home of the Center for Jewish Living — was posted on a website unaffiliated with Cornell. Law enforcement was immediately notified.

At this time, Cornell Police (CUPD) are on the scene and investigating. Police will continue to remain on site to ensure our students and community members are safe.

Cornell Police have also notified the FBI of a potential hate crime.

Threats of violence are absolutely intolerable, and we will work to ensure that the person or people who posted them are punished to the full extent of the law. Our immediate focus is on keeping the community safe; we will continue to prioritize that.

We will not tolerate antisemitism at Cornell. During my time as president, I have repeatedly denounced bigotry and hatred, both on and off our campus. The virulence and destructiveness of antisemitism is real and deeply impacting our Jewish students, faculty and staff, as well as the entire Cornell community. This incident highlights the need to combat the forces that are dividing us and driving us toward hate. This cannot be what defines us at Cornell.


 
20min ago

Rocket sirens sound in Sderot

Fresh rocket sirens are sounding in Sderot and other communities near the Gaza Strip.

Channel 12 news reports that many residents who left Sderot in the wake of the October 7 attacks have returned home despite the unstable security situations, after becoming tired of living in hotels for weeks.

16min ago

Dagestan airport incident over, no Israelis hurt, Foreign Ministry says

The Israeli government says the incident at the airport in Dagestan, in which a mob broke into an airport to find Jews on a flight landing from Israel, has ended without any casualties.

The Foreign Ministry says the event was dealt with by Israeli Ambassador to Russia Alexander Ben Zvi, along with other diplomats, National Security Council officials and “other security officials.”

It says help was provided by local government and security officials, without specifying if that includes officials from Moscow. The Kremlin recently hosted top Hamas officials, signaling support for the terror group.
 
Don't forget that Gazan civilians also crossed into Israel after the main push of Hamas on 10/7 to loot and burn; they also took some hostages of their own back. I posted the footage in here from the security cameras at the Kibbutz' (from South First Responders) showing these actions.

It may very well be that Hamas has no idea where these ones ended up if they were amongst those taken by civilians. They'll need to undertake some heavy logistics to sort all that out and get some answers. I think that's also why the number of confirmed hostages keeps going up ... Hamas didn't take them all.
I think that's a good possibility. Also, we have reason to believe the hostages are scattered in various locations around and beneath Gaza (if not in Egypt). The attack itself was very well planned, but I think things became a bit chaotic, even for Hamas, once the hostages were taken to wherever they're being held.
JMO
ETA: Hamas masterminds had no way of knowing  exactly how many hostages, or of what nationality would be taken.
 
Yes…my grandma lived in the Jewish community there, called a shtetl, which I know was later destroyed. I met another teacher several years ago, not Jewish, who told me she was born in Mielic. I was amazed because I didn’t know it was still a thriving city.

I have a Mielic Yizkor book, which is the remembrance of the town and the Jews who were later killed by the Nazis. Pictures of how it used to be in my grandma’s day.

@Charlot123
yes, this student was a Mountain Jew. He was ferocious and so was his father, whom I met at our Parent/Teacher conferences.

There are many people around here from the former Soviet Union. When I was a teenager in 1974 I marched for a campaign, “Save Soviet Jewry,” while they were still under Communist rule and religion was frowned upon.

But this one boy had an entirely different mindset and was quite a behavior problem! By now he is grown and I hope doing well.

My main point is how we are backsliding into a world where people easily and publicly are threatening Jews again.

Israel has no choice now but to defend and protect its people. By any means necessary.

IMO

@Arkay,
Jews went into exodus because of the religion, and stayed together because of the religion, but they lived in different parts of the world and to survive, picked up the traditions of the countries they were living in. Your ancestors came from the Pale of Settlement, where they lived among peasants and rather poor city-dwellers. That kid came from the area where blood revenge was commonplace among the locals. Of course, part of it could be himself as well. But of course, people are different. In Israel, a totally different nation is being forged.
 
Israel-Hamas war live updates: Thousands break into Gaza aid warehouse (nbcnews.com)
6m ago / 4:41 PM PDT

Israeli army strikes military building in Syria​

The IDF struck a military building in Syrian territory, the IDF said in a statement Sunday.

"A short while ago, in response to launches from Syria toward Israeli territory earlier Sunday, an IDF aircraft struck military infrastructure in Syrian territory," the statement said.

Live updates: Israel-Hamas war has entered a new stage, Netanyahu says (cnn.com)
6 min ago

At least 10 injured as crowd storms Russian airport after flight arrives from Tel Aviv, officials say​

At least 10 people are injured after a crowd stormed an airport in southern Russia following the arrival of a flight from Tel Aviv, according to a statement by the Dagestan health ministry late Sunday.

[...]

The injured are a mix of police officers and civilians, according to the health ministry, which said two people are in "critical condition."

[...]
 
sbm. Of course they know where they've put the hostages. To me this sounds like the Russian-Israeli citizens and likely many more hostages have already been murdered.
It sounds like Hamas has been promised something they want from Russia, but first they have to produce the hostages with Russian passports. The only reason they can't find them is that they are in no condition to be released.
 
Proportionality:

“The principle of proportionality prohibits attacks against military objectives which are “expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantageanticipated”.


Sounds very subjective to me, if I am reading it correctly. For example, the aggressor can claim that killing 1000 innocent civilians is worth it if they are able to also kill 10 enemy combatants, for example.
 
Proportionality:

“The principle of proportionality prohibits attacks against military objectives which are “expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantageanticipated”.


Sounds very subjective to me, if I am reading it correctly. For example, the aggressor can claim that killing 1000 innocent civilians is worth it if they are able to also kill 10 enemy combatants, for example.
It does

I know it isn't one for one.

However, I think good advice is: "Never kill more than you need to", "Don't target civilians" etc. It seems no one faces consequences these days.
 
The Israel Defense Force had Confirmed that they Struck Military Infrastructure in Southwestern Syria tonight in Response to recent Rocket Attacks from Syrian Territory into the Golan Heights, however these Strikes appear to have been against Iranian-Backed Militia Positions and not the 112th Mechanized Brigade like Syrian State Media is claiming, unless there have been multiple Strikes which is definitely possible.

Heavy Fighting is ongoing within the City of Jenin in the West Bank as more Armored Vehicles and Caterpillar D9 Armored-Bulldozer begin to arrive.
 
On Gedmatch, I often come up with 1/4 Georgian Jew. (I'm not and it's not likely due to marrying traditions )
I'm 1/2 Armenian, but that is one of the results that comes up in those Oracle 4. However, there are Georgian Jews and I once saw an Israeli movie that featured Georgian Jews.


OK, it just means that once upon a time, you had a common ancestor and share that person’s genes. That ancestor could have been anyone.
Example: my husband has 1% of Nigerian DNA. It is on his mother’s side I think. Option 1: 300 years ago, a Nigerian man came to Tambov or Tsarytsin governorships and left his DNA there. Not totally unlikely, because Peter the great had generals of African origin that became Russian gentry, or Napoleon brought people from all over Europe to Russia. So, version number one: a Nigerian left his DNA in Russia and now my husband matches his descendants. Option 2: a Russian traveller travelled to Nigeria 300 years ago and left his DNA there. His remote descendants and my husband share that DNA locus. Option 3: some Corsican came with Napoleon to Russia and left his DNA there and then, traveled to Nigeria and left it there as well. His Nigerian and Russian descendants match on that locus. All that we can tell that whoever the common ancestor was, his DNA got into the original “Nigerian sample” that the commercial company used. We don’t dig out bodies to test ancient DNA. We compare ourselves with the samples whose four grandparents were, say, “English”, or “Armenian”. What really got into those samples we don’t know. With time and bigger samples, it will be more clear.
 
18min ago

US official: Current limited IDF ground ops in line with our recommendations

The Biden administration has pushed Israel to carry out a more limited ground operation in the Gaza Strip, as the IDF is currently conducting in the northern part of the enclave, a US official tells The Times of Israel.

The US official says Israel’s leaders also currently oppose an all-out ground offensive at this stage because it could well risk the hostages currently in Gaza; and accordingly did not need pressure from Washington in order to choose the current military path.

There remains in the Biden administration skepticism regarding Israel’s broader strategy, given that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has not said who Jerusalem wants to govern Gaza once it succeeds in its goal of toppling Hamas, the US official says, adding that Washington is privately raising its concerns with the premier and his top aides.

White House: Restoration of communications in Gaza was 'critical'

The White House said Sunday that the "restorations of communications in Gaza was critical."

"Aid workers, civilians and journalists need to be able to communicate to each other and the rest of the world. Our Administration cared about this, worked on it and are glad to see it restored," it added.

______________________

I noticed that as soon as the UN Security Council Meeting was announced, communication was restored!

The US has the veto at the security council.


Screenshot Capture - 2023-10-28 - 22-03-43.png
Image was from this newsfeed, but this post is from
and lost in the ether! US official: Israel limiting Gaza ground offensive to keep from endangering hostages



I
 
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"Yehez Aman -

Hamas intelligence and counterintelligence.

Created in 1987, Hamas has been fighting Israel since its inception.
On October 7, Hamas militants carried out one of the largest attacks in history, striking southern Israel, killing and taking prisoners.
The attack came as a surprise to the Israelis.

This would not have been possible without Hamas's intelligence and counterintelligence service, Yehez Aman.

Every national liberation organization whose country is under occupation must have its own security structures.

Including intelligence and counterintelligence responsible for reconnaissance and providing information, searching for agents and informers.
Both formations of this type existed, for example, the Polish Home Army during the German occupation.
The Irish Republican Army had its own structures, and the members of this 'counterintelligence' were considered extremely brutal, eliminating British traitors and informers, not sparing them torture.
It was the same with the little-known GAL, i.e. the Anti-Terrorist Liberation Group, fighting against the Basque ETA.

It is no different with Hamas.

Hamas organized a powerful attack in the south of Israel on October 7. The number of dead and injured was in the thousands. Much of the 'work' on the attack was done by Hamas intelligence, part of a little-known formation - Yehez/Jihaz Aman.

But let's start with the basics.

As Colonel Uri Halperin, a retired Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) officer, tells o2.pl, the size of the Hamas fighting organization is "slightly less" than 50,000. people.
This number includes both fighters and the Gaza Strip police, also supervised by Hamas, as well as the already
of Israel's intelligence community.

What is Hamas?

The organization, established in 1987, also has its own security structures.
This is a little-known formation, but quite efficient and well-organized.
This formation was created before the formal establishment of Hamas.
At that time it was simply called the Security Department. This is the already mentioned Yehez/Jhiaz Aman.

An expert on terrorism explains that Hamas is currently divided into three main divisions.

The first, called Da'wa (Background), is responsible for charitable activities.

The second one is Yehez Aman.

The third division consists of the Martyr Izz Al-Din al-Qassam Brigades
(assault groups).

Even though 90 percent Hamas' activities include aid activities for Palestinians (kindergartens, schools, clinics, hospitals, etc.), the most famous is the terrorist structure.

Between them operates the Security Apparatus, the most trained and secret unit of the organization.
It consists of two parts:
- the first Mahd ('Glory') is responsible for the personal protection of Hamas dignitaries, intelligence and counterintelligence,

- the second Majmouath Jihad u-Da'wa
('Holy War and Preaching Group')
is responsible for monitoring compliance with conservative religious principles.

The size of this formation at 200 to 500 people.

Yehez Aman people do not participate in terrorist activities or street fighting. The Security Apparatus is deeply hidden within the structure of Hamas.

It is responsible for 'working' relations with Hezbollah, where Hamas uses the Party of God training camps in the Bekaa Valley, Lebanon.

'If we treat this conflict only in terms of the opposition between the main actors, then the most important opponent of Yehez Aman is the Israeli Shin Bet, which is Israel's internal security service.

And it must be admitted that with the attack on October 7, Jehez Aman won the 'battle' against the Shin Bet.

It identified the stationing of Israeli troops near the border with the Gaza Strip, disrupted
communication between Israeli units, and diverted attention from the land offensive by massive rocket fire' - says the expert."

Much more - the history of Hamas - in the link

 
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The Israeli Air Force has reportedly just Intercepted a Hostile Target over the Red Sea.

NEW: Hamas calls for "decisive" action by Egypt on Gaza aid - Al Mayadeen
UPDATE:

A Senior U.S. Defense Official has now stated that No Interception of a Ballistic/Cruise Missile occurred today over the Red Sea despite earlier reports by Israeli Media that one had.
 

Hamas HQ Hidden Under Gaza's Largest Hospital​


This is not verbatim as I am not a transcriptionist. Highly recommend listening to the recordings that begin about 1/2 way in.

1:51 The red marks are buildings that are involved with Hamas

3:30 Hamas terrorists operate inside and under Shifa Hospital and other hospitals in Gaza with network of terror tunnels

3:37 Hamas also has an entrance to those terror tunnels from inside the hospital wards meaning from different places of the hospital, you can go into an underground tunnel

4:22 Right now, terrorists move freely in Shifa Hospital and other hospitals in Gaza

4:30 "We have concrete evidence that hundreds of terrorists flooded into the hospital to hide there after the massacre of October 7th

4:46 Hamas wages war from hospitals

5:13 Hamas terrorists operate inside hospitals precisely because they know the IDF distinguishes between terrorists and civilians

5:37 Hamas is stealing from Gaza and civilians to fuel its attack

5:52 There is fuel in hospitals in Gaza and Hamas is using it for its terror infrastructure (plays recording of call between IDF officer and Senior Gazan Energy Official as proof)

8:07 Another recording of a call between two Gazans confirming Hamas Headquarters are located in Shifa Hospital

8:54 "We have also other recordings and video we will share with you later and we will share more materials, classified materials, with member of the intelligence community"

9:17 The IDF will continue making efforts to minimize harm to civilians population and will continue to act in accordance with international law.

9:28 For over two weeks the IDF has called and continue calling the civilians of Northern Gaza and Gaza City to temporarily move to your own safety - move South to Wadi Gaza

9:43 We are continue to assist the efforts led by Egypt and The United States to provide a humanitarian effort in this area

It sounds like Hamas is hiding under more than one hospital in Gaza

Did you watch the video above, otto? It's only 10 minutes but quite enlightening. The IDF says Hamas operates inside and under Shifa Hospital and other hospitals, and that they move freely within them. MOO

ETA: Oh, hmmm. Just realized that Sina Hospital is in the West Bank...
 

"Yehez Aman -

Hamas intelligence and counterintelligence.

Created in 1987, Hamas has been fighting Israel since its inception.
On October 7, Hamas militants carried out one of the largest attacks in history, striking southern Israel, killing and taking prisoners.
The attack came as a surprise to the Israelis.

This would not have been possible without Hamas's intelligence and counterintelligence service, Yehez Aman.

Every national liberation organization whose country is under occupation must have its own security structures.

Including intelligence and counterintelligence responsible for reconnaissance and providing information, searching for agents and informers.
Both formations of this type existed, for example, the Polish Home Army during the German occupation.
The Irish Republican Army had its own structures, and the members of this 'counterintelligence' were considered extremely brutal, eliminating British traitors and informers, not sparing them torture.
It was the same with the little-known GAL, i.e. the Anti-Terrorist Liberation Group, fighting against the Basque ETA.

It is no different with Hamas.

Hamas organized a powerful attack in the south of Israel on October 7. The number of dead and injured was in the thousands. Much of the 'work' on the attack was done by Hamas intelligence, part of a little-known formation - Yehez/Jihaz Aman.

But let's start with the basics.

As Colonel Uri Halperin, a retired Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) officer, tells o2.pl, the size of the Hamas fighting organization is "slightly less" than 50,000. people.
This number includes both fighters and the Gaza Strip police, also supervised by Hamas, as well as the already
of Israel's intelligence community.

What is Hamas?

The organization, established in 1987, also has its own security structures.
This is a little-known formation, but quite efficient and well-organized.
This formation was created before the formal establishment of Hamas.
At that time it was simply called the Security Department. This is the already mentioned Yehez/Jhiaz Aman.

An expert on terrorism explains that Hamas is currently divided into three main divisions.

The first, called Da'wa (Background), is responsible for charitable activities.

The second one is Yehez Aman.

The third division consists of the Martyr Izz Al-Din al-Qassam Brigades
(assault groups).

Even though 90 percent Hamas' activities include aid activities for Palestinians (kindergartens, schools, clinics, hospitals, etc.), the most famous is the terrorist structure.

Between them operates the Security Apparatus, the most trained and secret unit of the organization.
It consists of two parts:
- the first Mahd ('Glory') is responsible for the personal protection of Hamas dignitaries, intelligence and counterintelligence,

- the second Majmouath Jihad u-Da'wa
('Holy War and Preaching Group')
is responsible for monitoring compliance with conservative religious principles.

The size of this formation at 200 to 500 people.

Yehez Aman people do not participate in terrorist activities or street fighting. The Security Apparatus is deeply hidden within the structure of Hamas.

It is responsible for 'working' relations with Hezbollah, where Hamas uses the Party of God training camps in the Bekaa Valley, Lebanon.

'If we treat this conflict only in terms of the opposition between the main actors, then the most important opponent of Yehez Aman is the Israeli Shin Bet, which is Israel's internal security service.

And it must be admitted that with the attack on October 7, Jehez Aman won the 'battle' against the Shin Bet.

It identified the stationing of Israeli troops near the border with the Gaza Strip, disrupted
communication between Israeli units, and diverted attention from the land offensive by massive rocket fire' - says the expert."

Much more - the history of Hamas - in the link

Now I've got some translating to do!
Thank you. Very informative!
 
3:02 am

Ministry proposes moving Gaza’s civilians to north Sinai, a likely non-starter

A document compiled by Israel’s Intelligence Ministry recommends moving Gaza’s civilian population to Egypt’s Sinai peninsula as a solution for the Strip following the toppling of its Hamas rulers, according to a copy of the document published by the Sicha Mekomit website.

The document is being downplayed by government officials, with the Prime Minister’s Office telling Haaretz that it represents “initial thoughts” on the issue, which is currently not being considered by authorities focused on the war effort and not the day after.

The document, which is dated October 13, calls for the civilian population to be moved to tent cities in northern Sinai, and eventually the building of permanent cities and the opening of a humanitarian corridor. The plan includes a several-kilometer-wide “sterile” buffer zone inside Egypt, to ensure the population cannot settle on Israel’s borders.

[...]

Egypt has refused to consider taking in Palestinians fleeing Israel’s offensive in Gaza.
 
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