GUILTY Italy- Finnegan Elder, 19 & Gabriel Hjorth, 18, US students, police murder, 26 Jul 2019 *guilty* *new trial 2023*

[CoverMeCagney]

Maybe I'm being stupid here, but why do stab wounds to the back indicate who attacked who first?

If anything it looks even more cowardly to me.

Exactly! The policeman was not attacking him, he was either walking away or on the floor. I’m absolutely furious this violent killer is even attempting to present a defence. Arrogance in the extreme.

 

[FrostOwl]

Maybe I'm being stupid here, but why do stab wounds to the back indicate who attacked who first?

If anything it looks even more cowardly to me.

Wasn't there somewhere mentioned that FE claimed that officer Rega tried to strangle him/was standing very close in front of him, and that was when FE stabbed him? If that was happening, then FE could have stabbed Rega in the back, by pulling the knife towards himself, with Rega between the knife and FE. If Rega was standing further away from FE and was stabbed in the back, then FE would have had to push the knife in a forward motion. I would think that the shape of the knife wounds shows whether the knife was pulled or pushed when the stabbing was done. There might even be signs of both pulling and pushing types of wounds, as in the stabbing continued after the initial attack, if it began with Rega standing between FE and the knife. If something like that was happening, Rega would most likely have staggered away from FE after the first blows, and if FE continued with the attack after that, then he used too much aggression than neccessary (I don't know the English term for that), as he and NH would have been able to get away, there were no need for 11 stab wounds, that makes it look as a frenzied attack.

If it was pulled, then Rega must have been standing very close to FE, up in the face, and it could perhaps be interpreted by FE as if he was being attacked, and as it was an act of self-defense, judging what FE:s lawyers claim.

 

[Elainera]

Why the hell are they filing to be released?!? Especially the one who has admitted stabbing Rega to death. I hope he's not released for a LONG time. Annoyed.

Says in the article posted above by YesorNo that Elder (who admitted killing Rega) dropped the petition to be released.

GNH's petition hearing will be tomorrow, 16 Sep.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Says in the article posted above by YesorNo that Elder (who admitted killing Rega) dropped the petition to be released.

GNH's petition hearing will be tomorrow, 16 Sep.

Oh good, thanks. Now, what to do with GNH?

Did he know Elder had a knife? He says not
Did he know the police were police? They were plain clothed I think
Did he think he was punching a dealer? Stupid, but not as stupid as punching a cop.
How many times did he punch him?
How involved was he in the ensuing cover up?
Has he offended before or just caught up in an awful and tragic moment?

It seems like GNH has a better education and prospects than his murderous mate. If his actions were akin to a quick brawl on the street, and if he didn't know Elder was armed, does he deserve a long sentence? If his actions had nothing directly to do with Rega's death, in reality how long does he deserve and how long will he get?

I'm seeing these two boys as quite different cases. Elder needs to be put away for many years, but I'm just not sure about GNH.

 

[FrostOwl]

Whether GNH knew if the carabinieri were police or nor could depend on if they introduced themselves as such or not. GNH has an Italian father and grandfather, and have spent many summers in Italy, so regardless if he's fluent in the Italian language or not, he most likely understand probably more than a bit, and he can't claim that he doesn't know what a carabinieri is.

 

[Elainera]

Whether GNH knew if the carabinieri were police or nor could depend on if they introduced themselves as such or not. GNH has an Italian father and grandfather, and have spent many summers in Italy, so regardless if he's fluent in the Italian language or not, he most likely understand probably more than a bit, and he can't claim that he doesn't know what a carabinieri is.

Somewhere in the first few pages it was quoted that he speaks Italian. It was also said that one of the boys told investigators that the two policemen identified themselves, the other said they didn't. I'm assuming GNH is the one who heard and understood that they identified themselves as officers.

I don't think it matters much though, and he will be charged with murder as well.

 

[Elainera]

Looks like the second teen, Gabriel Natale-Hjorth, also withdrew his petition to be released.


"The lawyers of one of two American teenagers being held in the slaying of an Italian police officer have dropped a request for their client to be released.

Lawyers for Gabriel Natale-Hjorth, who's in custody for his alleged role in the fatal stabbing of Italian police officer Mario Cerciello Rega, said Monday they need time to study new evidence that emerged recently.

Lawyer Francesco Petrelli says "it was the only possible decision, as prosecutors told us there are new investigative activities ongoing."

American teen's lawyers drop bid for his release in Italy

 

[BlackCloud]

I'm really happy they had to withdrew their petition to be released.
I hope they spend years in jail before their trial begins and then life behind bars

 

[FrostOwl]

Oh good, thanks. Now, what to do with GNH?

Did he know Elder had a knife? He says not
Did he know the police were police? They were plain clothed I think
Did he think he was punching a dealer? Stupid, but not as stupid as punching a cop.
How many times did he punch him?
How involved was he in the ensuing cover up?
Has he offended before or just caught up in an awful and tragic moment?

It seems like GNH has a better education and prospects than his murderous mate. If his actions were akin to a quick brawl on the street, and if he didn't know Elder was armed, does he deserve a long sentence? If his actions had nothing directly to do with Rega's death, in reality how long does he deserve and how long will he get?

I'm seeing these two boys as quite different cases. Elder needs to be put away for many years, but I'm just not sure about GNH.

Well, judging from these photos posted by GNH I don't see him as being less guilty than FE, he might even have been the one more into, and familiar with, buying (and selling) drugs. https://translate.google.se/?hl=sv#...jorth-armi-droga-e-quella-lite-con-sua-madre/
Omicidio Cerciello, le chat nel telefono di Natale Hjorth: armi, droga e quella lite con sua madre - Open

@ Elainera: Calling them boys in post #146, but as they are over 18, shouldn't they be called young adults instead?

 

[Legally Bland]

Well, judging from these photos posted by GNH I don't see him as being less guilty than FE, he might even have been the one more into, and familiar with, buying (and selling) drugs. https://translate.google.se/?hl=sv#view=home&op=translate&sl=it&tl=en&text=https://www.open.online/2019/09/14/omicidio-cerciello-le-chat-nel-telefono-di-natale-hjorth-armi-droga-e-quella-lite-con-sua-madre/
Omicidio Cerciello, le chat nel telefono di Natale Hjorth: armi, droga e quella lite con sua madre - Open

@ Elainera: Calling them boys in post #146, but as they are over 18, shouldn't they be called young adults instead?

Text from his mother in the link:
_________________

In particular - reads the report - "Hjorth claims to have tried hallucinogenic mushrooms:" I tried some mushrooms (hallucinogens) for the second time in my life and I decided to be honest and tell you ", but the mother presses him pointing out the its total unreliability, given that: "I am talking about the fact that it is bull$$$t that you are not yet selling drugs because you do not have a job and continue to buy things.Expensive things. I lie constantly "".

(Not sure the last sentence has translated correctly.)

 

[JerseyGirl]

Their trial has been fast-tracked and will begin early next year. The first hearing has been scheduled for Feb. 26.

Trial of 2 San Francisco Teens for Slaying of Italian Police Officer to Start in February

 

[FrostOwl]

The trail against Finnegan Elder and Gabriel Natale Hjort for the murder of the Italian carabinieri Mario Cerciello Rega began today: US students in Italian court over police murder

An interview with the parents of Finnegan Elder, where they claim it was self defence: I-TEAM EXCLUSIVE: Parents of Finnegan Elder, Bay Area suspect in Italian officer death, give 1st interview

 

[jenny g.]

I saw this in an article - "The go-between, apparently a Carabinieri informant, later called police to report that his bag with his cell phone was snatched."
PHOTOS: Emotions Run High For San Francisco Teen's Parents In Rome Courtroom
So, the person who FE and GNH tried to buy cocaine from was an informant, and that's why he refused to sell the drugs?

 

[FrostOwl]

I saw this in an article - "The go-between, apparently a Carabinieri informant, later called police to report that his bag with his cell phone was snatched."
PHOTOS: Emotions Run High For San Francisco Teen's Parents In Rome Courtroom
So, the person who FE and GNH tried to buy cocaine from was an informant, and that's why he refused to sell the drugs?

If I recall it correctly, it wasn't the informant who sold the drugs to the two Americans (the drug they got was crushed aspirin, and not cocaine they tried to buy), the informant only introduced them to a seller. When FE and GNH discovered that they hadn't got what they wanted, they couldn't find the seller, so they stole the informant's bag, and then tried to extort him to to get their money back. What they didn't know was that the informant called the police, as (technically) he hadn't committed any crime.

 

[FrostOwl]

Wondering what's happening with this trail, now when Italy is at a standstill due to the corona virus.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Grisly testimony in trial of former Marin students in death of Italian police officer

The remainder of Varriale’s questioning by prosecutors, and the expected start of defense cross-examination, was postponed till Thursday.

At the hearing’s start, Judge Marina Finiti reminded Varriale that he himself is a defendant in a separate case. Hours after the slaying, as the suspects were being questioned at a police station, Varriale allegedly made a video of Natale-Hjorth sitting blindfolded as an officer asks him his name and other information. Blindfolding a suspect violates an Italian law, which is supposed to safeguard the dignity of criminal suspects.

Later this month, the court is expected to hear the findings of a psychiatric evaluation of Elder requested by the defense.

The Americans’ turn on the witness stand isn’t expected until after the court returns from an August vacation recess.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Italian cop 'caught lying in US students' murder trial: defence

 

[JerseyGirl]

Court experts: US youth "sorry" in police slaying trial

 

[FrostOwl]

Court experts: US youth "sorry" in police slaying trial

I wonder if FE was known to have an "anti-social borderline personality" before, or if it's something new after the killing of the Carabinieri Mario Cerciello.

 

[FrostOwl]

American on trial for murder of Italian police officer claims he was kicked and spat at in custody | Daily Mail Online