Italy - Sailing yacht sank off Italian coast, 15 rescued, 7 missing, 19 August 2024

[LadyL]

Makes me wonder if Giovanni Costantino (the CEO of Italian Sea Group and the one who has been publicly speaking about their 'unsinkable boat') gave permission for the lawsuit to be filed - but it had not received board approval.

I can't imagine a lawyer would file a lawsuit without his client knowing. But it sounds as if the lawyer has taken the fall.


The CEO of the firm that owns the boat’s manufacturer, The Italian Sea Group, claimed the yacht was “unsinkable.” Giovanni Costantino told Sky News sailing ships “are the safest in the most absolute sense.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/08/26/europe/bayesian-yacht-captain-manslaughter-investigation-sicily-intl/index.html

I think you're right ...

very strange because he would be billing those hours to them and I would expect they would have had to sign something consenting to the legal manouver

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

I think you're right ...

very strange because he would be billing those hours to them and I would expect they would have had to sign something consenting to the legal manouver

Yes @LadyL …. very sad incident and unfortunate developments. And particularly with many lives lost and too many unanswered questions. IMO as to the recent ‘statements’ relating to supposed court filings, it seems someone is doing as we typically call ‘window dressing’. And still apparent discussion and statements also of ‘unsinkable’. Sadly SMH. MOO

 

[Ruthbullock]

Makes me wonder if Giovanni Costantino (the CEO of Italian Sea Group and the one who has been publicly speaking about their 'unsinkable boat') gave permission for the lawsuit to be filed - but it had not received board approval.

I can't imagine a lawyer would file a lawsuit without his client knowing. But it sounds as if the lawyer has taken the fall.


The CEO of the firm that owns the boat’s manufacturer, The Italian Sea Group, claimed the yacht was “unsinkable.” Giovanni Costantino told Sky News sailing ships “are the safest in the most absolute sense.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/08/26/europe/bayesian-yacht-captain-manslaughter-investigation-sicily-intl/index.html

Or it had the exact planned effect- the threat is out there in public, but retracted as an admin error, with an apology from this company who needs to be seen to care- ready to be actioned at a later stage if necessary.

 

[SouthAussie]

Or it had the exact planned effect- the threat is out there in public, but retracted as an admin error, with an apology from this company who needs to be seen to care- ready to be actioned at a later stage if necessary.

Yes, I wondered about that. But then read that they fired the lawyer and potentially blackened his reputation.
Not out of the realm of possibility, if the lawyer agreed to such a thing. I haven't seen the lawyer actually named anywhere.

Could also be that the board is wondering about the vent positions on the boat themselves. Seeing that they said that the investigation is not complete, hence a lawsuit should not be filed at this time. (or words to that effect)

 

[ch_13]

Yes, I wondered about that. But then read that they fired the lawyer and potentially blackened his reputation.
Not out of the realm of possibility, if the lawyer agreed to such a thing. I haven't seen the lawyer actually named anywhere.

Could also be that the board is wondering about the vent positions on the boat themselves. Seeing that they said that the investigation is not complete, hence a lawsuit should not be filed at this time. (or words to that effect)

The lawyer was named in the original article:
the law firm BdPmarine&law of lawyer Tommaso Bertuccelli filed on behalf of Tisg (The Italian Sea Group) at the Court of Termini Imerese
(Translated into English)

Bayesian, lo yacht naufragato. Il costruttore adesso chiede i danni. “Persi tre clienti, voglio 222 milioni”

La società cita comandante, equipaggio e armatore. La tesi: la nave non aveva difetti, danno d’immagine

www.lanazione.it

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1838856653036310777

 

[RedHaus]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1838856653036310777

I found this statement in the article you posted, @Dotta, quite interesting:

"Genoa-based diving company Drafinsub has used sonar and video shot from a robot to map the yacht's hull, anchor chain and surrounding seabed."

IMO this may imply (aka confirm) that the anchor was not fully retracted (if retracted at all), which nautical experts have cited should have been one of the first reactions to the downburst. In fact, that is exactly what Captain Borner did to save his old schooner near the Bayesian.

The other interesting tidbit was this:

"Chief prosecutor Ambrogio Cartosio, who is heading the investigation, previously said his team will consider each possible element of responsibility including those of the captain, the crew, individuals in charge of supervision and the yacht's manufacturer."

Until now, I was not clear if the role of the manufacturer was being investigated.

IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

IMO this may imply (aka confirm) that the anchor was not fully retracted (if retracted at all), which nautical experts have cited should have been one of the first reactions to the downburst. In fact, that is exactly what Captain Borner did to save his old schooner near the Bayesian.

I have read another opinion that the Bayesian should have actually put out a second anchor.
Because strong winds can push unanchored boats into each other, and crews frantically try to steer boats away from this happening - but are at the mercy of the conditions.

In this article.....

Did anchor sway contribute to Bayesian tragedy?

The sinking and seven deaths on the 56m Perini Navi Bayesian has garnered international attention, and while a formal investigation is underway to

www.sailingscuttlebutt.com

 

[RedHaus]

I have read another opinion that the Bayesian should have actually put out a second anchor.
Because strong winds can push unanchored boats into each other, and crews frantically try to steer boats away from this happening - but are at the mercy of the conditions.

In this article.....

Did anchor sway contribute to Bayesian tragedy?

The sinking and seven deaths on the 56m Perini Navi Bayesian has garnered international attention, and while a formal investigation is underway to

www.sailingscuttlebutt.com

Interesting, @SouthAussie.

Indeed Capt. Borner reported he pulled his anchor and started his engines to gain control of his yacht / schooner and to avoid hitting the Bayesian. So his action supports this theory that that is a common first instinct.

However, I wondered ^^^ if the Baysian had two anchors deployed when the storm hit, after I watched the bizarre Video of Satellite Data @Dotta posted of both sailing vessels during the storm.

In the video, as I described in a response post, at the start, Borner's yacht was facing into the wind (as you might expect with a single anchor). But at the same start time, the Bayesian was perpendicular to the wind, making me wonder if two anchors were initially holding her steady.

As the video time sequence elapses, Borner's yacht never changes its heading. However the Bayesian slightly sways back and forth for a while (like your article describes). But then suddenly it swings 180° with her stern then facing the wind.

From then, the Bayesian appears to be pushed from the stern by the wind for a while, and then she disappears. Borner says she went down stern first.

So it makes me wonder, if the Bayesian:

a) did have storm ready double anchors (bow and stern) deployed, but that

b) the force of the storm and physics caused the bow anchor to break causing (?) the sudden 180° turn with her stern now facing onto the wind, and

c) if there was a stern anchor left dragging while she was being pushed forward, could that have caused her to quickly take on water through the engine vents, eventually sinking her stern first?

Just some musings in response to your new information. I wonder how this author would evaluate that video?

All IMO!
ETA: video

 

[SouthAussie]

Interesting, @SouthAussie.

Indeed Capt. Borner reported he pulled his anchor and started his engines to gain control of his yacht / schooner and to avoid hitting the Bayesian. So his action supports this theory that that is a common first instinct.

However, I wondered ^^^ if the Baysian had two anchors deployed when the storm hit, after I watched the bizarre Video of Satellite Data @Dotta posted of both sailing vessels during the storm.

In the video, as I described in a response post, at the start, Borner's yacht was facing into the wind (as you might expect with a single anchor). But at the same start time, the Bayesian was perpendicular to the wind, making me wonder if two anchors were initially holding her steady.

As the video time sequence elapses, Borner's yacht never changes its heading. However the Bayesian slightly sways back and forth for a while (like your article describes). But then suddenly it swings 180° with her stern then facing the wind.

From then, the Bayesian appears to be pushed from the stern by the wind for a while, and then she disappears. Borner says she went down stern first.

So it makes me wonder, if the Bayesian:

a) did have storm ready double anchors (bow and stern) deployed, but that

b) the force of the storm and physics caused the bow anchor to break causing (?) the sudden 180° turn with her stern now facing onto the wind, and

c) if there was a stern anchor left dragging while she was being pushed forward, could that have caused her to quickly take on water through the engine vents, eventually sinking her stern first?

Just some musings in response to your new information. I wonder how this author would evaluate that video?

All IMO!
ETA: video

Yes, you have presented some good thoughts there. Maybe they had tied off with two anchors in prep for the storm.
If the front anchor dislodged, the back anchor could have dragged the boat down stern first.

I find it disturbing that the Bayesian sank within 60 seconds. That is awfully fast for a boat to go from laying on its side to disappearing completely.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Yes, you have presented some good thoughts there. Maybe they had tied off with two anchors in prep for the storm.
If the front anchor dislodged, the back anchor could have dragged the boat down stern first.

I find it disturbing that the Bayesian sank within 60 seconds. That is awfully fast for a boat to go from laying on its side to disappearing completely.

The speed it sank is the biggest issue I have. I can certainly see crews screwing up resulting in loss of property, like this isn't the first superyacht that has sunk but usually there's time to evacuate even if you don't have time to save property. I really want to know why it sank so fast, like perhaps it will turn out there was damage to the yacht related to the anchor(s), but even then it still seems like the yacht was a deathtrap. There should be some sort of test for passengers survivability, like if passengers can't get on deck after X minutes from Y event, then the yacht is inshore only. This seems like a Class D yacht that was wrongly classified as a Class A because it wasn't survivable even when it was coastal less than a mile from port while the old yacht next to it not only survived without injury but helped in the rescue.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

The speed it sank is the biggest issue I have. I can certainly see crews screwing up resulting in loss of property, like this isn't the first superyacht that has sunk but usually there's time to evacuate even if you don't have time to save property. I really want to know why it sank so fast, like perhaps it will turn out there was damage to the yacht related to the anchor(s), but even then it still seems like the yacht was a deathtrap. There should be some sort of test for passengers survivability, like if passengers can't get on deck after X minutes from Y event, then the yacht is inshore only. This seems like a Class D yacht that was wrongly classified as a Class A because it wasn't survivable even when it was coastal less than a mile from port while the old yacht next to it not only survived without injury but helped in the rescue.

Securing things like deck chairs, plants, is also for safety so those things don’t become projectiles, block doors or movement of crew/passengers. Years ago my college friend was badly injured while working on a yacht, no guests, they were delivering the yacht to a destination. He was struck with an unsecured heavy item in heavy seas / freak waves. It was v heavy crates of supplies that shifted and slid, knocking him down then crushing him. They were so far from land, a helicopter couldn’t reach them for couple of days & he nearly died.
I think of this when read about crew securing items on deck, the risks they take securing deck chairs and plants so others are safe.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Securing things like deck chairs, plants, is also for safety so those things don’t become projectiles, block doors or movement of crew/passengers. Years ago my college friend was badly injured while working on a yacht, no guests, they were delivering the yacht to a destination. He was struck with an unsecured heavy item in heavy seas / freak waves. It was v heavy crates of supplies that shifted and slid, knocking him down then crushing him. They were so far from land, a helicopter couldn’t reach them for couple of days & he nearly died.
I think of this when read about crew securing items on deck, the risks they take securing deck chairs and plants so others are safe.

I'm going off the assumption that the crew made mistakes, which I'm saying even if the crew made mistakes a supposedly oceangoing vessel shouldn't just instantly sink like a rock. Even if the crew of a vessel made some mistakes that could result in total loss of the vessel it shouldn't result in everyone in the passenger cabins being unable to escape and then die by drowning. Losing an expensive yacht I'm fine with as other superyachts have sunk without loss of life after crew mistakes, but not people losing their lives like this where they had no chance. Vessels that instantly sink like the Bayesian shouldn't leave the harbor or should be put in a calm lake. It seems like it should have a duck boat type restriction as tourist duck boats are instant deathy like the Bayesian:

Sunken Duck Boat's COI Contained Strict Weather Limits

The U.S. Coast Guard has released the Certificate of Inspection (COI) for the Stretch Duck 07, the a...

maritime-executive.com

 

[ch_13]

Vessels that instantly sink like the Bayesian shouldn't leave the harbor or should be put in a calm lake.

rsbm.

In fairness, I don't think anyone would have guessed the Bayesian could have sunk so quickly until it actually happened. The initial speculation was that hatches/portholes had been left open, but it seems that isn't so. Now the suspected culprits are the vents, but that's still just a theory.

I think we'll just have to wait for the final determination is as to why this happened. And then the question becomes how many other ocean-going vessels are at similar risk?

 

[SouthAussie]

rsbm.

In fairness, I don't think anyone would have guessed the Bayesian could have sunk so quickly until it actually happened. The initial speculation was that hatches/portholes had been left open, but it seems that isn't so. Now the suspected culprits are the vents, but that's still just a theory.

I think we'll just have to wait for the final determination is as to why this happened. And then the question becomes how many other ocean-going vessels are at similar risk?

I am guessing we will find it was a combination of factors that led to this disaster, with no one entity being at fault. And the downburst being the biggest factor. A very unusual event for a yacht to encounter.

One (other) thing about the boat's design that makes me uneasy is the curved staircase leading to the sleeping accommodation. I feel that curved staircase - if anyone could get to it - might be harder to traverse than a straight staircase, in the dark with the boat laying on its side.

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1841664916656198084

 

[LadyL]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1841664916656198084

well that's good news since, according to the article, the rumour was that the crew left it open which allowed the boat to be flooded

 

[SouthAussie]

well that's good news since, according to the article, the rumour was that the crew left it open which allowed the boat to be flooded

And the Dutch captain - Karsten Borner, whose boat picked up the survivors - supplied the photos because ..... he was irritated by repeated attempts by the ship's builder to pin the blame on the crew.

He also said ..... 'My first mate said, 'she has gone, she has sunk', and I was laughing at him, saying such a big thing doesn't disappear in a minute. He was right.'

Photo of ill-fated Bayesian superyacht minutes before it sunk

 

[SouthAussie]

"The inquests of a Suffolk tech tycoon and his daughter, who drowned in Italy in August, will be opened on Friday."

"According to a recently-published court listing, the inquests of both Dr and Miss Lynch will be formally opened at Suffolk Coroners’ Court in Ipswich on Friday."

Inquests for Suffolk tech tycoon Mike Lynch and teenage daughter will open today

The inquests of Suffolk tech tycoon Mike Lynch and his daughter Hannah, who drowned in Italy in August, will be opened on Friday.

www.eadt.co.uk

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1841798223704322083