Jahi’s family wants her declared 'alive again’

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Well I don't think Dr. Shewmon would give that declaration blindly or stupidly. He has a wonderful reputation as a brain expert and pediatrics. Be interesting to see how it plays out.
 
MyBelle said:
Medical research is conducted by those with a Ph.D. and the clinical practice of medicine is done by M.D.s and they do collaborate. I have worked in a medical school/teaching hospital. The two degrees carry the same level of professional respect.

JMO
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I think you confuse academic courtesy with professional respect. It's academically courteous for someone with an MD to refer to a person by precluding the greeting with the title, "Doctor", when said person is teaching a class or conducting research on the theory of relativity when that person holds a doctorate degree in advanced mathematics. But that courtesy ends when the mathematics doctor begins instructing a class in the proper procedures for calculating the amount of propofol needed to surgically sedate a 35 year old, 200 pound man.

The math formula is a known, simple one. But there's also the clinical experience and anesthesiology expertise that goes into all the "what if" scenarios, should the mathematical formula fail for a particular patient that proves to be biologically resistant or tolerant to propofol.
 
Winter67 said:
http://www.lifenews.com/2014/10/06/...s-alive-and-awake-videos-show-her-responding/

I am astounded at the conversation here. There is something going on with her. She's the first documented "Brain Dead" person to have a menstrual cycle. I didn't see Dolan backing out today, I saw he wants the doctors and yes they are doctors despite what I have read here saying they are not to sit down and go over what they have found and seen since the first diagnosis. There was no blame. 5 have said she no longer meets the definition. From what I have seen and heard she doesn't.
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First of all, I have not seen any evidence that she does, in fact, have a menstrual cycle. Jury is still out on that.

If he wants doctors, why not use the mainstream, highly respected, neurologists, as opposed to the fringe, out of the loop, iffy variety, with their own agendas?
 
Yeah, I mean, define menstrual cycle. Have they established ovulation? How long or short is her cycle? How many has she had? Is it, in fact, menstruation? I hate to even ask its characteristic.... I mean, if it appears her brain is turning into a prune and her fingers appear to have begun decomposing, what exactly are we talking about here?

Maybe it is her uterus decomposing and exiting through her vagina?

We really have no proof other than what the "smoke and mirrors" people had said.

There is no proof of it; at least none shown at this point.
 
OT: Can we take the tone down a bit?

It is getting a little contentious and there are a lot of valid points on all sides of this case.

I am learning a lot on medical-legal issues and processes and don't want the thread shut down.

Sorry to interject here! JMV
 
katydid23 said:
First of all, I have not seen any evidence that she does, in fact, have a menstrual cycle. Jury is still out on that.
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Mmmhmmm. Only thing that needs to be said in response to this claim is, "Consider the source." An attorney making such a wild claim, and then his paid experts writing an opinion stating such a biological process is not consistent with an uncontrolled brain dead patient, is all...well...not scientifically credible.
 
Zuri said:
OT: Can we take the tone down a bit?

It is getting a little contentious and there are a lot of valid points on all sides of this case.

I am learning a lot on medical-legal issues and processes and don't want the thread shut down.

Sorry to interject here! JMV
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Welcome to the world of people in medicine lol. If you really want to have some fun, watch two doctors get into it over opposing viewpoints. It can make you want to curl in a ball and sit in a corner until its over.

People in medicine are direct... That's all it is. I don't think anyone means offense... It's just how it is. scientists like proof and defending their positions.....

It can feel awkward when you are looking at it... I appreciate the reminder that others may be intimidated by it. I'm used to it now.... Been in this "family" for about 25 years now...
 
So the MRI was done at Rutgers on 9-26-14- But the MRI says "Not for medical use". So was that Rutgers way of showing that they did not want to be medically involved in this? Maybe that they just allowed it to be done but clearly specified that it was not going to be for medical use (diagnostic) but was simply to observe the changes in a brain dead person who is artificially kept breathing. After all, that might be of interest to researchers/doctors/students there.

Can a med professional chime in on why it was marked NOT FOR MEDICAL USE? Does that mean it is not for diagnostic use?

ETA. i just saw where someone who posted their own MRI said that their MRI "The images state: NOT FOR MEDICAL use, because I use a free unregistered version of this mri viewer". So maybe Dolan or whoever viewed it used such a free unregistered version of a viewer. That's not the standard procedure of experts, is it?


http://docbastard.blogspot.com/2014/10/jahi-mcmath-here-we-go-again.html?showComment=1412655865386

Studies on brain dead women have revealed that function in both the hypothalamus and the anterior pituitary gland (the portion that produces FSH and LH), is preserved even in brain death. So the fact that Jahi now has her period is interesting, but meaningless."
 
katydid23 said:
First of all, I have not seen any evidence that she does, in fact, have a menstrual cycle. Jury is still out on that.

If he wants doctors, why not use the mainstream, highly respected, neurologists, as opposed to the fringe, out of the loop, iffy variety, with their own agendas?
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Indeed. Why doesn't Dolan issue a press release with an open letter to the entire medical community to visit the body and personally bare witness to the claims he and the IBRF are making? I'm sure there's plenty who would oblige such an invitation completely free of charge, out of pure research curiosity. Why limit his invitation to only the "experts" with a vested, financial interest in furthering the theories of the IBRF that brain death is a curable, reversible diagnosis? Why limit the public exposure to a couple of cell phone videos from the family, when he could remove all doubt and scrutiny by inviting any media crew to come in and set up a camera?
 
This is a multiple MD and ME certified brain-dead child/minor/dependent we are discussing.

I would bet if this child had a say so in what has happened to her body for the past 10 MONTHS, now and who knows how much longer that she would not be happy to have been/continue to be used as a pawn/puppet for a CA Prop, for financial gain for her parents and frankly would not want her body artificially supported where there is and never will be any measurable quality of life.

This is an abominable abuse of this child's body! JMHO
images
 
Another person at the AllNurses website said that the "not for medical use" indicates Jahi is NOT a patient of Rutgers. So technically the scan was done there but they are not involved and do not want to be involved in this farce.

DocBastard (athttp://docbastard.blogspot.com/2014/10/jahi-mcmath-here-we-go-again.html?showComment=1412655865386) said "The "Not For Medical Use" is stamped on every copy of every radiologic study to indicate that it is not an original."
 
Lulu14 said:
That image is going to stay with me for a while.
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Sorry about that, another point about living in a medical family/community. I read journals with necrotic feet on the cover while I'm eating, lol.

The things we talk about... I am not a medical professional, but since I'm married to one and all of my friends (even my girl friends-- one is a M.D. and one is a Pharm. D. My SIL is a Pharm. D, my sister and my other SIL are RNs etc..) are medical professionals, you had better believe I needed to learn fast and keep up. I can hang in any conversation... With a respectful amount of knowledge.

Anyway... Really, when you think of differential diagnosis... Uterus sloughing out through vagina is a reasonable consideration for her situation.
 
Quester said:
This is a multiple MD and ME certified brain-dead child/minor/dependent we are discussing.

I would bet if this child had a say so in what has happened to her body for the past 10 MONTHS, now and who knows how much longer that she would not be happy to have been/continue to be used as a pawn/puppet for a CA Prop, for financial gain for her parents and frankly would not want her body artificially supported where there is and never will be any measurable quality of life.

This is an abominable abuse of this child's body! JMHO
images
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I really, completely agree. I was secretly hoping that at the hearing today, her brain death would be affirmed AND we could get back to turning all the machines off and having this end. It seems to me that her family has become delusional about this situation. We aren't helping them cope with her death. But they are in New Jersey now and apparently New Jersey has a law.......

This poor poor child. It's so terrible what they are doing with her.
 
Hiandmighty said:
Welcome to the world of people in medicine lol. If you really want to have some fun, watch two doctors get into it over opposing viewpoints. It can make you want to curl in a ball and sit in a corner until its over.

People in medicine are direct... That's all it is. I don't think anyone means offense... It's just how it is. scientists like proof and defending their positions.....

It can feel awkward when you are looking at it... I appreciate the reminder that others may be intimidated by it. I'm used to it now.... Been in this "family" for about 25 years now...
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Thank you for the welcome!

RN since 1980. Med Surg, CV ICU, SICU, Neurosurgery ICU, ER, PACU.

ACLS, BLS, PALS, CEN, TNCC, CCRN certifications.

Married to an MD for 27 years.

I think I bought the T Shirt :)
 
Zuri said:
Thank you for the welcome!

RN since 1980. Med Surg, CV ICU, SICU, Neurosurgery ICU, ER, PACU.

ACLS, BLS, PALS, CEN, TNCC, CCRN certifications.

Married to an MD for 27 years.

I think I bought the T Shirt :)
Click to expand...

You and I will get along fine! We have the secret handshake (and the Tshirt). :hug:
 
Donjeta said:
View attachment 60706
hope the photo works

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-moving-command-claiming-proves-s-alive.html

the screenshot from video

JMO and i'm no radiologist but it looks to me like her brain has pretty much liquefied in the middle. Part of the corpus callosum has been turned into a puddle and the rest looks pretty abnormal too.

View attachment 60707

Here's what a more healthy brain looks like
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/files/2009/07/019852403ximaging-techniques1.jpg
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I just showed my MD spouse these pics, with no facts or commentary. He just asked me whose brain was liquified and if this was an autopsy photo....

I am always bringing him pics of autopsy exhibits to look at. He concurred with all of you that this study means nothing with regards to determining brain death.
 
I found this when I was off wandering between here and the Ebola thread and DocB's site and AllNurses site. It is a paper written by some familiar names ( Philip Defina, Christine Zakrzewski, Charles Prestigiacomo, Calixto Machado, Peter Bernad, James Halper and Jonathan Fellus) and apparently they claim to have treated brain death and "reversed it". They conclude "Brain Death may not be definitively irreversible and deserves therapeutic consideration". It is from April of this year. I noticed Fellus has his name on it and want to :barf: thinking of how he "treated" his brain damaged patients.

http://www.neurology.org/content/82/10_Supplement/P4.285.long

I know this must have been posted already but it is interesting,
 
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