GA GA - Katherine Janness & Dog Bowie Fatally Stabbed - Piedmont Park, Atlanta, 2021 #5

[Cowabunga02]

<modsnip. - quoted post was removed>

Joe Scott Morgan’s former employer (Ful Co ME Office) is the party that released KJs ME report without statement.

What are y’all’s thoughts about that? Did that also jeopardize the investigation?

An autopsy is no one’s business but the family’s. They should be the ones to say if it is released to the public or not. And I do believe that facts in this/any autopsy can inform the killer/s and therefore possibly cause ground to be lost in an investigation.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

And I've got another little tidbit for you. If the killer works like how I think he works, he returned to the scene of a crime and often. He probably got himself cleaned up that night, and came back and watched the police work. That was part of the thrill of it.

 

[PrairieWind]

It seems Joseph Scott Morgan (former senior investigator with the Fulton County ME Office) (in his Body Bags Podcast) says the killer took his time. DA Fani Willis said the same in a press conference early on.

I have listened to Morgan lots of times on his podcast and as he sometimes appears on others. I respect him tremendously. But what does he mean by "took their time?" A killer with a knife could have killed KJ in 10 seconds. So keeping that in mind, pulling her under a tree and assaulting here for 5 minutes would be "taking their time." It might have been longer, but it wouldn't have needed to be. I think those injuries, as horrific as they are, COULD have been done in 5 minutes.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

I have listened to Morgan lots of times on his podcast and as he sometimes appears on others. I respect him tremendously. But what does he mean by "took their time?" A killer with a knife could have killed KJ in 10 seconds. So keeping that in mind, pulling her under a tree and assaulting here for 5 minutes would be "taking their time." It might have been longer, but it wouldn't have needed to be. I think those injuries, as horrific as they are, COULD have been done in 5 minutes.

These were injuries in precise locations. So you need a steady hand, you need to go slowly, then you got to think about what you're going to do, where to place it, you have to pull the knife out, maybe you got to change knives, let your arms rest for a little bit. I mean this could take some time. But yeah I don't think he stayed there too long. I would think half an hour, tops. But that's just my guess. I mean he could have stayed until EC got there. And in fact he could have went and washed up in the lake changed and came back for the police.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Does anybody have a physical description of the WTF guy?

 

[JackieBrown]

I went down a rabbit hole looking for info on mutilation in homicides. Most are behind a paywall, and I can only access the abstracts, but the abstracts still shed some light on the research.

I’d never heard this term before- “piquerist”.

“Despite the prevalence of ripper killings in media reports, there is little presence in the academic literature, even less of the psychological, criminological, or forensic aspects of such homicides, particularly regarding any embedded sexual element to such homicides.”

“Whilst most investigators will never encounter a sexual homicide (James and Beauregard 2018), those that encounter such a homicide, with overkill injuries, are likely to miss a piquerist signature hidden beneath the brutality inflicted on the victim (Woods 2006). In practical terms, misinterpreting the motivation for mutilating wounds may hinder efforts to identify perpetrators (Woods 2006, p. 113) as in the following case. Indeed, it is for those reasons that the case has been chosen, to demonstrate piquerism in homicide cases displaying overkill and the difficulty in identifying a piquerist signature in such cases.”

More at the second link below.

Original Citation:
Pettigrew, M. Piquerism in Overkill Homicides: Identifying the Sexual Component in a Series of ‘Ripper’ Killings. J Police Crim Psych 38, 342–352 (2023). https://doi.org/10.1007/s11896-022-09510-0

Largest abstract of above article

PIQUERISM IN OVERKILL HOMICIDES - Issuu

Piquerism, the sexual gratification yielded from the infliction of cutting, stabbing, and slicing wounds, remains an underresearched sexual paraphilic disorder with consequences for understanding, identification, detection, case linkage, and offender treatment. To help remedy that research...

issuu.com

 

[concernedcitizen706]

I went down a rabbit hole looking for info on mutilation in homicides. Most are behind a paywall, and I can only access the abstracts, but the abstracts still shed some light on the research.

I’d never heard this term before- “piquerist”.

“Despite the prevalence of ripper killings in media reports, there is little presence in the academic literature, even less of the psychological, criminological, or forensic aspects of such homicides, particularly regarding any embedded sexual element to such homicides.”

“Whilst most investigators will never encounter a sexual homicide (James and Beauregard 2018), those that encounter such a homicide, with overkill injuries, are likely to miss a piquerist signature hidden beneath the brutality inflicted on the victim (Woods 2006). In practical terms, misinterpreting the motivation for mutilating wounds may hinder efforts to identify perpetrators (Woods 2006, p. 113) as in the following case. Indeed, it is for those reasons that the case has been chosen, to demonstrate piquerism in homicide cases displaying overkill and the difficulty in identifying a piquerist signature in such cases.”

More at the second link below.

Original Citation:
Pettigrew, M. Piquerism in Overkill Homicides: Identifying the Sexual Component in a Series of ‘Ripper’ Killings. J Police Crim Psych 38, 342–352 (2023). https://doi.org/10.1007/s11896-022-09510-0

Largest abstract of above article

PIQUERISM IN OVERKILL HOMICIDES - Issuu

Piquerism, the sexual gratification yielded from the infliction of cutting, stabbing, and slicing wounds, remains an underresearched sexual paraphilic disorder with consequences for understanding, identification, detection, case linkage, and offender treatment. To help remedy that research...

issuu.com

Yes that's very interesting, I read those links. That is pretty much exactly the problem. Every time somebody sees overkill, everyone thinks, oh it must be a scorned lover, or that perp must be really angry at the victim. Even police think that. When that is usually not the case.

I went down a rabbit hole looking for info on mutilation in homicides. Most are behind a paywall, and I can only access the abstracts, but the abstracts still shed some light on the research.

I’d never heard this term before- “piquerist”.

“Despite the prevalence of ripper killings in media reports, there is little presence in the academic literature, even less of the psychological, criminological, or forensic aspects of such homicides, particularly regarding any embedded sexual element to such homicides.”

“Whilst most investigators will never encounter a sexual homicide (James and Beauregard 2018), those that encounter such a homicide, with overkill injuries, are likely to miss a piquerist signature hidden beneath the brutality inflicted on the victim (Woods 2006). In practical terms, misinterpreting the motivation for mutilating wounds may hinder efforts to identify perpetrators (Woods 2006, p. 113) as in the following . Indeed, it is for those reasons that the case has been chosen, to demonstrate piquerism in homicide cases displaying overkill and the difficulty in identifying a piquerist signature in such cases.”

More at the second link below.

Original Citation:
Pettigrew, M. Piquerism in Overkill Homicides: Identifying the Sexual Component in a Series of ‘Ripper’ Killings. J Police Crim Psych 38, 342–352 (2023). https://doi.org/10.1007/s11896-022-09510-0

Largest abstract of above article

PIQUERISM IN OVERKILL HOMICIDES - Issuu

Piquerism, the sexual gratification yielded from the infliction of cutting, stabbing, and slicing wounds, remains an underresearched sexual paraphilic disorder with consequences for understanding, identification, detection, case linkage, and offender treatment. To help remedy that research...

issuu.com

 

[RetLawyer]

I went down a rabbit hole looking for info on mutilation in homicides. Most are behind a paywall, and I can only access the abstracts, but the abstracts still shed some light on the research.

I’d never heard this term before- “piquerist”.

“Despite the prevalence of ripper killings in media reports, there is little presence in the academic literature, even less of the psychological, criminological, or forensic aspects of such homicides, particularly regarding any embedded sexual element to such homicides.”

“Whilst most investigators will never encounter a sexual homicide (James and Beauregard 2018), those that encounter such a homicide, with overkill injuries, are likely to miss a piquerist signature hidden beneath the brutality inflicted on the victim (Woods 2006). In practical terms, misinterpreting the motivation for mutilating wounds may hinder efforts to identify perpetrators (Woods 2006, p. 113) as in the following case. Indeed, it is for those reasons that the case has been chosen, to demonstrate piquerism in homicide cases displaying overkill and the difficulty in identifying a piquerist signature in such cases.”

More at the second link below.

Original Citation:
Pettigrew, M. Piquerism in Overkill Homicides: Identifying the Sexual Component in a Series of ‘Ripper’ Killings. J Police Crim Psych 38, 342–352 (2023). https://doi.org/10.1007/s11896-022-09510-0

Largest abstract of above article

PIQUERISM IN OVERKILL HOMICIDES - Issuu

Piquerism, the sexual gratification yielded from the infliction of cutting, stabbing, and slicing wounds, remains an underresearched sexual paraphilic disorder with consequences for understanding, identification, detection, case linkage, and offender treatment. To help remedy that research...

issuu.com

You might be interested in two articles I posted when I first joined this thread. My post about them is in Thread #5, #300 post. I believe the perpetrator in this case is a sexual sadist.

 

[Yemelyan]

I went down a rabbit hole looking for info on mutilation in homicides. Most are behind a paywall, and I can only access the abstracts, but the abstracts still shed some light on the research.

I’d never heard this term before- “piquerist”.

“Despite the prevalence of ripper killings in media reports, there is little presence in the academic literature, even less of the psychological, criminological, or forensic aspects of such homicides, particularly regarding any embedded sexual element to such homicides.”

“Whilst most investigators will never encounter a sexual homicide (James and Beauregard 2018), those that encounter such a homicide, with overkill injuries, are likely to miss a piquerist signature hidden beneath the brutality inflicted on the victim (Woods 2006). In practical terms, misinterpreting the motivation for mutilating wounds may hinder efforts to identify perpetrators (Woods 2006, p. 113) as in the following case. Indeed, it is for those reasons that the case has been chosen, to demonstrate piquerism in homicide cases displaying overkill and the difficulty in identifying a piquerist signature in such cases.”

More at the second link below.

Original Citation:
Pettigrew, M. Piquerism in Overkill Homicides: Identifying the Sexual Component in a Series of ‘Ripper’ Killings. J Police Crim Psych 38, 342–352 (2023). https://doi.org/10.1007/s11896-022-09510-0

Largest abstract of above article

PIQUERISM IN OVERKILL HOMICIDES - Issuu

Piquerism, the sexual gratification yielded from the infliction of cutting, stabbing, and slicing wounds, remains an underresearched sexual paraphilic disorder with consequences for understanding, identification, detection, case linkage, and offender treatment. To help remedy that research...

issuu.com

Yes, the possibility of piquerism has been discussed about this case since the very beginning...my post about it back in 2021 and I was not even the first to bring it up: Post in thread 'GA - Katherine Janness, 40, fatally stabbed and dog killed, Piedmont Park, Atlanta, 28 Jul 2021 #3' GA - Katherine Janness, 40, fatally stabbed and dog killed, Piedmont Park, Atlanta, 28 Jul 2021 #3

I have always believed the stabbing and mutilation had a sexual component and was not overkill from a person known to her/mad at her.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Yes, the possibility of piquerism has been discussed about this case since the very beginning...my post about it back in 2021 and I was not even the first to bring it up: Post in thread 'GA - Katherine Janness, 40, fatally stabbed and dog killed, Piedmont Park, Atlanta, 28 Jul 2021 #3' GA - Katherine Janness, 40, fatally stabbed and dog killed, Piedmont Park, Atlanta, 28 Jul 2021 #3

I have always believed the stabbing and mutilation had a sexual component and was not overkill from a person known to her/mad at her.

<modsnip - discussing other members> and I think have well supported, especially with that podcast I linked, that the nature of the injuries were very unusual and precise, and show there was some organized thought going on there.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

So here's a new thought. How did this attack occur, just out of range of camera? If it was an unorganized perp, how did he manage to be just out of range of camera? That's incredibly lucky right? And also managed to not go through the gate that was right there, and then be caught on camera. And if it was an organized perp, how was he so sure, that he would manage to make sure Katie did not run 'out' of the park and into camera range? Because she was so close. And do you think he chose that location on purpose to taunt? Him saying like, I can commit this murder right next to the camera, and you still can't catch me.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

I just had an idea. I think this perp committed this murder in that park, right out in the open, right next to a path, for a couple reasons. One, he wanted to terrorize a whole city by being in a public area.
But two, just as importantly, because he wanted access to the crime scene. I think he wanted to be there when the police processed the scene, so he could watch it. Because if you commit a crime scene anywhere else, like in someone's home, or even out in the woods somewhere, as the perpetrator, you cannot just come by and swing around and see what's going on. It would look pretty suspicious. But in a large public park, it would look a lot less suspicious. You just happened to be walking by. And on that note, I hope they really took a good look at the WTF guy. Or anyone who was at the crime scene that night.

 

[Cowabunga02]

I just had an idea. I think this perp committed this murder in that park, right out in the open, right next to a path, for a couple reasons. One, he wanted to terrorize a whole city by being in a public area.
But two, just as importantly, because he wanted access to the crime scene. I think he wanted to be there when the police processed the scene, so he could watch it. Because if you commit a crime scene anywhere else, like in someone's home, or even out in the woods somewhere, as the perpetrator, you cannot just come by and swing around and see what's going on. It would look pretty suspicious. But in a large public park, it would look a lot less suspicious. You just happened to be walking by. And on that note, I hope they really took a good look at the WTF guy. Or anyone who was at the crime scene that night.

Interesting ideas, #2 has not been mentioned before to my knowledge.

 

[RetLawyer]

I hope the APD are planning a July 28, 2024 press conference 3 yr update on the investigation of Katie’s and Bowie’s murders. They really need to say more than it is an ongoing investigation, we continue to meet with the FBI and we will solve this case. Please APD provide some of the FBI criminal profile of this perpetrator and other information about what you know from July 27 and 28.

 

[Warwick1991]

I just had an idea. I think this perp committed this murder in that park, right out in the open, right next to a path, for a couple reasons. One, he wanted to terrorize a whole city by being in a public area.
But two, just as importantly, because he wanted access to the crime scene. I think he wanted to be there when the police processed the scene, so he could watch it. Because if you commit a crime scene anywhere else, like in someone's home, or even out in the woods somewhere, as the perpetrator, you cannot just come by and swing around and see what's going on. It would look pretty suspicious. But in a large public park, it would look a lot less suspicious. You just happened to be walking by. And on that note, I hope they really took a good look at the WTF guy. Or anyone who was at the crime scene that night.

Who is the WTF guy?

 

[dotr]

Good video, includes timeline, cctv of witnesses, phone call to 911 & quite likely (imo), also the guy yelling- maybe- WTF.
Approx 2:45

' Aug 4, 2021
911 call and new video in Piedmont Park murder'

 

[RetLawyer]

Who is the WTF guy?

He is the guy whose voice is somewhat audible during Emma’s 911 call. He yells “What the F_ _ _ _”. You can heat
R Ira little bit in the 911 call audio posted above.

 

[dotr]

fred&edna first brought this brutal & strange case forward, noting in particular that the killer carved something with a line through it on the victim's back. fwiw, imo.
Not suggesting the same perp is involved in KJ's case, but maybe there is a common denominator of some kind.
In this recent article, there is speculation that the carving was possibly related to the occult, or even part of staging a red herring.

GA - Katherine Janness, 40, fatally stabbed and dog killed, Piedmont Park, Atlanta, 28 Jul 2021 #4

I don’t agree. IMO, the word isn’t FAT, it was meant to be something else, maybe something that didn’t get finished. And it wouldn’t have been an insult to Katie because she was comfortable with herself. He/she was exceptionally angry with a reason, or a hateful being with extreme murder on...

www.websleuths.com

11 Investigates Exclusive: New developments in case of 1993 stabbing death of 74-year-old woman

11 Investigates has learned about some new developments in an unsolved murder case that shocked the Pittsburgh area more than three decades ago.

www.wpxi.com

By Rick Earle, Channel 11 Chief Investigative ReporterJuly 16, 2024 rbbm
“It’s not only not knowing who, but why, but why, why, why? She was a good lady. Why did this happen to her?” said Dan Coyle, during an interview at his home near Freeport recently.''
''Coyle had been sexually assaulted and a bizarre symbol carved in her back, possibly the victim of a satanic ritual.''
''Coyle said that genealogical DNA testing was done more than two years ago, and he said Investigators got some hits.''
“The symbol is the biggest clue that we have, yet it may mean nothing at all,” said Mains.
Mains also said the suspects he zeroed in on lived nearby and were involved in the occult.
“They were heavily involved in devil worship,” said Mains.''

PA - PA- ''Stephanie Coyle, 74, Throat cut, Raped and Molested after death & Design carved into her back, July 1993

https://www.wtae.com/article/family-of-woman-killed-in-1993-frustrated-by-district-attorneys-refusal-to-meet-with-investigator/29429618 2011 rbbm. https://www.wpxi.com/news/target-11-reopens-case-file-of-unsolved-murder_nd3fz/201473430/ ''PITTSBURGH,None — It was a shocking crime in a quiet...

www.websleuths.com

11 Investigates Exclusive: New developments in case of 1993 stabbing death of 74-year-old woman

11 Investigates has learned about some new developments in an unsolved murder case that shocked the Pittsburgh area more than three decades ago.

www.yahoo.com

''Wecht also found two clusters of six stab wounds, along with that symbol he described as a large circle with a line through it.
Mains in a video posted online, referenced the symbol carved on Coyle’s back.
“The symbol is the biggest clue that we have, yet it may mean nothing at all,” said Mains.''

 

[GeorgiaPeach1]

Unless Joseph Scott Morgan knows the exact moment the attack on KJ began and the exact moment the attack ended, and unless he witnessed the disposition and actual actions of the murderer (which he did not), there is no way he (let alone Fani Willis) could know whether the killer “took his time” or not. Imo Morgan and Willis’ statements are pure speculation, and irresponsible speculation at that.

Morgan and Willis’s statement gave the impression that the killing was almost done at leisure, a slow sadistic torture. I have never bought that. And he (and Fani) simply could not know. I guess he thinks it would take a long time to stab and slash somebody 50 times with a knife. I personally think it could be done in mere minutes (even if you wanted to carve 3 letters, which I’m not sure they did), especially if the victim was incapacitated early on

Remember, the killer first had to dispose of Bowie. The killer also had to worry about being seen or caught (even if they were suffering from psychosis, they knew enough to leave quickly).

I find it very hard to believe that the killer knelt over KJ within view of the CA gate and “took their time”. As video shows, there are still people around the park at that hour. Even in the case of a non random attack, it would have been a frenzied, less than 5 minute mauling. And maybe even less than that (jmo). Then he was gone.

I know he’s with the ME office, but Morgan and Fani Willis’s statements jeopardized the investigation imo, as they painted just one picture / psychopathology / attitude of the suspect: that of a slow sick dissection done to maximize pain. I just don’t believe they could possibly know 100
percent from the nature of the wounds that that is what happened, and if they’re wrong, it discounts other scenarios and possible suspects that otherwise should be considered.

All jmo

Great points. However, I’ve been in Piedmont park after dark and it is extremely dark in certain areas. Nobody would have been able to see anything. Also, a lot of wild things go on in Piedmont after dark (sex, drug use, homeless ppl sleeping everywhere, etc) so if you’re in the park and see something in the shadows, you kinda just mind your business.
I think Katie’s pants were pulled down because her killer dragged her by the legs to a location that wasn’t as dark after he finished.

 

[Quell]

!! Trigger Warning !!

Revisiting MEx Report…

The cut down KJs midline was 2inch deep if I’m reading correctly.

This perp would have to be exceptionally strong to run a knife that length/depth, no?!