Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #2

[Incoherent]

That's a very insightful observation, actually. It hadn't occurred to me that the board could be used for access, but indeed, why not? He could have used it to skate away and perhaps even partially hide behind it while on a train.

There were no trains running from the time he was confirmed still in the house at 1:20am until around 5am for the first ones at the nearby stations. Skateboarding through a central residential Tokyo neighbourhood would be begging for attention.
I can tell you as a long time resident of Tokyo: a person on the train with a bloody hand holding a skateboard over his face and looking a mess is getting reported to the station attendants quicker than you can blink. There are 40,000,000 of us here.

 

[Incoherent]

RSBM. As I SAY above re: the bōsōzuku gangs. No, there is absolutely zero credible that links them to these murders at all. Let alone Mikio arguing with them on a frequent basis. That's from conversations I've had with LE on this.

Is it possible the TMPD missed such a scenario completely? Yes, it's possible. Is it likely? Given that a fair number of said gangs would either have records or at least be known to the TMPD, my feeling is no. I'm not an expert on this topic but, as I understand it, murder isn't common among bōsōzuku, particularly when talking about small children, or a family minding their own business. Off the top of my head, I can think of Masahiro Yoshino which was 89 or 90? Though I recall he chastised them or something along those lines. At any rate, like I say, from my conversations with LE, this subject was never raised. Nor was any credible suspect ever mentioned. When I brought up the subject, it was simply a no. Besides, if bōsōzuku were causing trouble in Soshigaya Park, I would have to assume they would have done this visibly and nosily, as tends to be their way. It would also require such a gang member to be able to access the area around Edwards USAF base on the other side of the planet prior to the murders (a closed, guarded area). So, possible but unlikely. JMO.

Bosozuku are just annoying teenagers with nothing better to do than make loud noises on motorbikes. They also don’t hang out in central Tokyo where everyone’s eyes are on them, they tend to hang out in towns in neighbouring Chiba and Kanagawa that they can zoom through without being stopped.
If they had any presence in Kamisoshigaya everyone there would know about it and have reported it to the police for the noise or had altercations, but I’ve not heard anything about that in relation to the case and location.

 

[Sor Juana]

Considering the way human memory works, what you wrote about hiding behind the board is a good observation. If the public was asked about "a suspicious man running or walking away from the house", LE gets information about the runner, or the guy who jumped on the road in front of the car, or even someone anxious in a taxicab leaving traces of blood (that on close inspection is proven to be chocolate.) Few would mention a schoolboy with a skateboard if not specifically asked about it. In Japanese forum that @Incoherent linked earlier, people were commenting on seeing "a disgusting-looking man with a shaved head". I sincerely doubt the perpetrator stood out that much, JMO.

Here is a picture illustrating how a skateboard can be used to conceal the face. I've witnessed people bending behind skateboards on buses before. You're absolutely correct; the public tends to pay attention to anything that stands out and may overlook regular urban scenes. JMO.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

RSBM. As I SAY above re: the bōsōzuku gangs.

I don’t know what happened with my upper case there. Apologies, I wasn’t shouting that!

 

[femto]

The point you raise re: the bōsōzuku gangs. No, there is absolutely zero credible that links them to these murders at all. Let alone Mikio arguing with them on a frequent basis. That's from conversations I've had with LE on this.

I didn't suggest that they killed him, I only suggested that the area around the house was frequented by teens and delinquents. Any of them might have taken an offense. I don't believe he was a biker because as I said, I don't think a biker would wear these types of clothes. And while that in no way would necessarily exclude them, it seems more than likely he was not. I don't know how often Mikio argued with them or any of that, but witnesses have suggested that, didn't they? Unless that information is wrong. You yourself suggested that Mikio can be described as hard and sometimes difficult to deal with earlier in this thread.

Thank you, Femto. The reason I asked about a skateboard is that it seems the killer did not have one with him that day. He either left it behind, concealed it somewhere (though unlikely, it's a possibility), or simply didn't own one. I wonder if there has been an analysis conducted on his shoes to determine if they show signs of wear consistent with skateboarding. It may be possible to establish this forensically by examining various deformities and worn parts. Just my opinion—I'm speculating as I'm not a skater—so I'm curious to hear from those with experience in skating. If it turns out that no such findings from the shoe analysis exist, what other factors could connect him to the skating world? Could it be that he was an observer rather than a participant? Or perhaps he played tennis and happened to stop by to watch the skaters? Agree with you on "People are not gonna randomly point at their friend or acquaintance".

I don't think we know if he came with a skateboard. He might have used it as a cover in front of others while walking back home & to the crime scene. People would be inclined to ignore a guy like that. I see @FacelessPodcast answered your question about the shoes. He's far more knowledgeable than me on this case anyway. All I'm going is what we know about this case in the West which isn't all that much and throughout the years it has been mired with misinformation

I would also propose that after the murder, some skaters simply ceased frequenting the area. If they were not known by name, other skaters may not have been able to provide sufficient information to the TMPD to identify them. The link analysis employed by TMPD likely encompassed a vast territory and involved hundreds of people. However, I would argue that this methodology is susceptible to overlooking outliers, as it predominantly captures the most common links.

I think that the killer stopping his visits to that area after the murders is definitely the more likely scenario. But him continuing to stay there isn't all that unlikely either. So long as they don't have anything to connect him to the crime scene (which they don't for all we know) they can't ask him for fingerprints or DNA just like that. But my theory is that the killer skated there from time to time but wasn't some guy that would be overly familiar to the people of the general area. He might have gone there once or twice per month or even less. I feel this would be the best way he would escape the scrutiny of the police after the crime since the regulars and people living in the neighborhood would be the first ones questioned and put under watch.

There is something consistently pointing to at least a skateboard owner.

Great post. I'd also add to this post that the killer seems reasonably athletic, regardless of where he came from. He climbed the house without making that much of a fuss. I think this points to the youth of the killer and possibly being somewhat into sports (whether skating or whatever)

It would also require such a gang member to be able to access the area around Edwards USAF base on the other side of the planet prior to the murders (a closed, guarded area). So, possible but unlikely. JMO.

But do we know that the grain of sand is from the USAF base or from the Mojave desert itself? It doesn't really seem to be the former because if it was, the Japanese police force would absolutely be the first ones to chase down that lead yet you yourself said they didn't even contact the American authorities and ask them about the personnel. It seems to me they don't believe he was from the base itself

As above, I don't think he does look like a skater. In any case, that's JMO. But it's also the opinion of all the local skaters I interviewed he frequented that park in 1999 / 2000. I defer to them on this. What we can say for sure is that he covered his face with his handkerchief and used a hat with a low brim. That evidently is to hide his identity on the night of the murders. Why would he be trying to fit in with any group while murdering a family?

See, this doesn't quite make sense because we do have plenty of photos of skaters in the 90s and early 2000s and how they dressed and the killer is absolutely dressed to a tee like one. For example:

You can look at the Alloy Catalog of 1997 here:

Alloy Catalog - Fall 1997

Alloy clothing catalog from Fall 1997. Some pages are missing due to my collage and picture board obsession as a teenager.

www.flickr.com

His clothes absolutely fit the style.

There were no trains running from the time he was confirmed still in the house at 1:20am until around 5am for the first ones at the nearby stations. Skateboarding through a central residential Tokyo neighbourhood would be begging for attention.
I can tell you as a long time resident of Tokyo: a person on the train with a bloody hand holding a skateboard over his face and looking a mess is getting reported to the station attendants quicker than you can blink. There are 40,000,000 of us here.

The killer didn't look like a mess, though, not that we know of. He spent some time in the house changing and cleaning himself before going out. If he lived with his parents (given his reported age), he definitely would have alerted them (or the neighborhood acquaintances and friends) if he had some major injuries. For my money I think he injured his arm while stabbing, stopped the bleeding and possibly bandaged himself, changed his clothes and went out eventually. At that point he'd just be another Japanese guy walking back home in the night, one of thousands. Nobody would even notice him, especially considering Japanese people aren't nosy by nature. Regardless of what he was, we know that at least he didn't arouse any suspicion and nobody has reported any sighting of a suspicious individual which to me implies he definitely didn't look out of place.

 

[minamoon]

I can confirm heaps of younger persons dressed in this "skater fashion" in urban Japan during late 90's early 2000's. I think it's also possible the perp was skater-by-proxy but not a skater. I also dressed in this style being a young girl because I have a two older brothers who was also influenced (one didn't even skate). I think a lot of people are looking at the perp's fashion through American/western vision. I don't see a ton of merit in the skater angle. Just my opinion!

 

[lilykaluva]

Much appreciated, @femto. As you say, there is such a dearth of English-language reporting on this case. And 99.9% of what is out there is a copy of a copy of a flawed / poorly-translated original. Even some of the major podcast titles covering these murders are filled with mistakes (due to this very reason). So yes, it was well overdue that a long-form podcast on this case was made. I'm glad people found FACELESS informative and I'm grateful for your words.

I appreciate your thoughts on this, even if we disagree on a lot. You raise many good points and I'll do my best to answer each one. You'll see in my responses, I'll raise a lot of questions. To be clear, they're rhetorical. No need to reply. At any rate, as I'm facing a deadline, even if you had further responses, it's unlikely I'll have further comment for you on this.

The skatepark is across from the house. The playground is for kids which is directly behind it. Could you use that for skating? I suppose so but that's something I've never seen on any of the occasions I went there / never heard of in the conversations I've had. The first image below is of the skatepark. The second is its relation to the Miyazawa home:
View attachment 494028

View attachment 494029
You can see the house to the left. I've seen skaters/cyclists etc using that whole open space. The layout has changed down the years but all the skaters I spoke to said they would bring their own equipment to create their lines etc. Back in 2000, skating was generally frowned on in Japan and, short of going guerilla-style through the streets, spots like these were cherished. The playground directly behind the house I believe you're referring to is the Choo-Choo Park. So yeah, I can't say that skaters never used it to skate. But everyone I spoke to was referring to the space in the pictures. Guess I don't see much point using the playground when there's a dedicated space a few steps away? It's irrelevant, either way.

"It couldn't be that many."

Why not? Based on what? With all respect, I believe you're wrong. Obviously, I can't tell you the total figure of skaters the TMPD have questioned. But I can tell you that I've spoken to a number of them that were interviewed and they told me the same story: the detectives wanted only two things. 1) their fingerprints to eliminate them. 2) Names, names, names. Detectives came with print-outs from skating videos and skate magazines, they came with long lists. Do you know X, do you know Y, tell us where we can we find Z. So, clearly, it could be that many.

To date, the TMPD has fingerprinted over 1 million men. They've had 280,000 personnel on this case in the last 24 years. Why couldn't they have chased down many skaters? Why not thousands, if they felt like it? The TMPD is the largest and, as I understand it, best-funded metro police force on earth. What conceivable reason could there be for them NOT chasing down skaters? Tokyo being big or there being other skate parks doesn't seem like a factor to me. Of course, I'm not saying they interviewed every skater in Tokyo. But I strongly and respectfully disagree with "couldn't be that many."

No, I do not. I am relating what the ones who I spoke to told me. If I gave the impression that I was speaking for all human skaters, I phrased it poorly. I would like to think I am not in the habit of speaking about people as monoliths.

Obviously I am not saying Mikio could never have been in a bad mood. As I have said many times, we hear different things about him. Obviously I am not suggesting I am able to vouch for every single day in his life. What I am trying to relate, perhaps poorly, is the testimony of the skaters who used that park on a frequent basis in the 90s/2000. Skaters who were interviewed by the TMPD. They referred to the Mikio incident as singular. Maybe they were lying to me? But, as we know the TMPD fingerprinted them, clearly none were responsible for the murders. I would hope you would give me enough credit to assume that I am not claiming absolute certainty on events 24 years ago. I am talking about what I have been able to ascertain. Clearly, the possibility of Mikio saying the wrong thing to the wrong person is still on the table.

Sure. Where do I assume the killer is normal? Given that he murdered four human beings for no immediately obvious reason, I think the word "normal" can be quite comfortably discounted here.

Your view on these clothes are as valid as anyone else's. You aren't the first person to view them as in-line (see what I did there) with the clothes of a skater. Though I think you are the first to take this view that has said they skated too? I can't recall. But I skated in my youth, too. Personally, from the very first time I saw those clothes, it felt wrong that a skater label was applied. JMO, of course. Then again, he's wearing tennis shoes and there's a tennis court right there. Why can't he be a tennis player? People wear tennis shoes to cycle around. Why couldn't he be a cyclist etc? In the end, this goes nowhere. I can only repeat what every single person on the scene in Soshigaya Park in the year 2000 I spoke to told me -- those aren't skater clothes. Sometimes, I asked them directly. Many times they gave me this opinion unprompted. Of course, they could be wrong. But seeing as they were there 24 years ago, I'm inclined to take their view on board.

Short of that, we're left with likelihood. Is it likely he had just been skateboarding before the murders? Is it likely he decided on a whim to murder the occupants of that house while on the half-pipe? Or is it more likely he would choose his clothes appropriately to hide his identity rather than adhering to 'skater style'? We know he covered his face with a handkerchief and wore a low-brimmed hat. If anything at all, this tells me he didn't want to be seen / recognised.


Mabori Beach is not literally a skate park, no. It's an area of coastline in Yokosuka where there happens to be a US naval base -- coincidentally, or not. But I also don't know if there was a skate park there in the year 2000.

I am not suggesting he vanished into thin air, I am suggesting there is a chance he left the country. And I do not say this simply because he wasn't caught. Not all crimes are solved in Japan. Obviously, that doesn't mean that every single criminal fled the country. I have stated by reasons for believing he left Japan so many times, you'll forgive me for not repeating myself. It's all there up-thread.


Let's not get into Jack the Ripper because I have my own views on that and I don't believe he disappeared

We know the killer left in the early in the morning, yes. I too think he went home, covering his hand. Where else would he have realistically gone? However, the idea that a witness wouldn't pay attention to someone walking home bleeding due to them being Japanese - am I understanding that correctly? If so, I disagree. You asked if I'm aware of the Namiko Takaba case. Yes, I've actually just made a thread on it. In that case, there is no suggestion the killer isn't Japanese. Yet she was also bleeding and seen by witnesses. And I'm not wholly sure where your point about the police not tracking him down meaning he didn't disappear like JtR leads. Do you mean the TMPD overlooked him? Or he's living in plain sight? At any rate, we disagree. I don't say it's impossible he slipped past them. Only that for me it's more likely he left. End of.

I'll accept your point about the TMPD Homicide detectives having less experience compared to US or European murder detectives -- on the numbers alone. And I too see the parallels between the Miyazaws and Namiko Takaba (as per my thread). But if we are going to get into cases where the police have lots of evidence but fail to find a murderer, then we are going to be jumping all over the Atlas.

The homicide rate in Japan is, as you say, incredible low. You are statistically more likely to die taking a selfie in Japan than you are to be murdered. And the conviction rate there is 99.99999%. Now there are problems with the judicial system in Japan as anyone with a passing knowledge will know. But you could also spin these facts as the TMPD being far, far superior, therefore, to any other police force in the world. I do not. I think this would be a gross simplification.

I have openly spoken against the TMPD in some regards. I have also praised them in many others. My knowledge of their work is limited but, from what I have seen, I think you're characterisation is unfair. My view is that they are incredibly hard-working and, on the whole, deeply respectful. I also reject the view that any kind of comparative inexperience in the TMPD explains the lack of a result in this case. That's just my personal view. You have yours.

As for the Nagoya Police, I have zero experience so I take no view. Nagoya Police and the TMPD are two separate forces -- I have been guilty in the past of saying or repeating the phrase "Japanese police". I mention this seeing as you don't like people so speak in monoliths

Thank you for explaining this to me. Respectfully, I am not ignoring it. But as I say, I don't know what the killer's DNA make up is. Nor do you. However, Dr. M has a fair idea seeing as he analysed it and his opinions are out there. He, too, will be aware of Japan's history. Is he wrong? I don't know, it's possible. As I say --once again-- I am going off only what is known so far. I'm not going to repeat my points above but clearly, there is a chance the killer was foreign. There is a chance he was Japanese. Dr. M, the only person to be quoted on this subject who's actually seen the killer's DNA, says the former is more likely than the latter. I'll go with it until better information comes to light.


Yes. There is a chance the killer is ethnically Korean (yes, I'm aware there is some genetic overlap). But the chance of him being from, or having ever visited, Korea is essentially zero. We know this thanks to the words of the Chief and his collaboration with the Korean authorities. This has been ruled out. This in no way infringes on my theory the killer is an American who left Japan shortly after the murders.

Why am I putting too much credit in it? How can it be vital but also too much credit be put in it? Frankly, I have answered this so many times. I am yet to see one single, solitary solid reason as to why this isn't important. What other clue in this case tells us where the killer was definitively before the murders? Not only that, it tells us he was able to access a closed world. Not open to Japanese, or casual tourists, or even most American citizens. I would like to hear how exactly I have been misled by this.

In the event that more information comes to light and it turns out the sand is not from Edwards, I will change my mind accordingly. My views must change as the evidence does.

I will not get into detail on this as I was told certain things off the record. But yes, we know one sand was from Edwards USAF base in California, the other was from the region around Mabori Beach. I've spoken many times about Lorna Dawson and IDing soil / sand. If you listened to FACELESS, you'll know what I'm referring to.

The bag was manufactured in Osaka. It had no DNA or fingerprints belonging to anyone but the killer. So, (as I've said on this same page of the thread I'm pretty sure), if he bought it from someone else or stole it, he cleaned it in such a way as to remove all forensic traces of a previous owner but somehow still leave sand in the bag. Perhaps this is somehow possible. Again, on likelihood, to me, it is not. As for the idea that the bag came brand-new with sand in it from Mabori and a US military base on the other side of world : I cannot say it's impossible. I just don't see how.

I do not say I think he had military training or experience in killing. But how do you know he started killing randomly?

"So what?" Because perhaps he was thinking he had already bled all over the crime scene and now his fingerprints are there too. What difference would all the rest of the evidence make?

I am not saying this was smart. I am saying it's possibly what his thinking was. You not thinking it's a good explanation doesn't mean it isn't the explanation.

What the TMPD would do with his DNA / fingerprints if the killer has no criminal record in -let's say- the USA? As far as I know, the TMPD has never spoken with US authorities, though the killer's fingerprints are lodged with Interpol. However, when I spoke to Interpol, I was told: we cannot comment on a case about which we have no information. So, I leave you to decide what has happened there.

And where do I suggest that a country would harbour a murderer because they don't like Japan? Again, I am not saying that his thought process is good or logical. His carelessness doesn't have to make sense to you or me or anyone else.

With respect, that's neither here nor there. Very little in this case is ordinary or quotidian. If it were, the killer would already be hanged by now. I'm unsure of your best theory. I've come to my own. It's led to a person of interest who is exactly the very thing you say you find far-fetched. So, again, while you may not find it credible. I do. That's fine.

Though, I must quibble with your characterisation of the house being in the middle of nowhere. It is not.

Why is the house very hard to find?

Yes, I was actually agreeing with you on this point.

Again, that's your view. And there areas in which I disagree with them too. But if your argument is that because they haven't solved the case, therefore they are inexperienced and their work deserves to be doubted: I strongly disagree. This is simplistic, in my view, bordering on disrespectful. Though perhaps I've misunderstood your characterisation.

I really don't follow this. Because it happened 24 years ago, they can't chase the skater link? Why?

At any rate, we do know that they are chasing it based on everything stated above.

Your post is lengthy and, again, I appreciate your thoughts. But from here on in, anything that I've answered many, many times, I'm going to simply refer you back to my earlier answers.

With respect, they are up-thread time and again. You are free to look them up if you wish!

Fair point, sure. It's been 24 years and if you accept that 280,000 TMPD personnel have gone over this case frontways and backways then perhaps you'll have an explanation for why some personal connection with the killer and the family has been overlooked? I'm yet to hear one. Of course, it's possible he knew them. I just think it's unlikely given what we know.

Why would a random killer be more or less cautious? Also, are random killers fine to be spoken of in monoliths? Once again, thank you for your ideas @femto. Those are mine. I'll wrap this up here.

Ngl I am incredibly curious about your Jack the Ripper thoughts now, Faceless!

 

[Incoherent]

The killer didn't look like a mess, though, not that we know of. He spent some time in the house changing and cleaning himself before going out. If he lived with his parents (given his reported age), he definitely would have alerted them (or the neighborhood acquaintances and friends) if he had some major injuries. For my money I think he injured his arm while stabbing, stopped the bleeding and possibly bandaged himself, changed his clothes and went out eventually. At that point he'd just be another Japanese guy walking back home in the night, one of thousands. Nobody would even notice him, especially considering Japanese people aren't nosy by nature. Regardless of what he was, we know that at least he didn't arouse any suspicion and nobody has reported any sighting of a suspicious individual which to me implies he definitely didn't look out of place.

Considering the killer didn’t change his trousers or shoes you would assume after committing brutal murder that he didn’t exactly look pristine right? No blood on those large, white tennis shoes after walking around in a blood soaked house for hours?
If he did wait until the first trains he waited with a pretty bad hand injury, in the freezing cold, then took the train with others in central Tokyo and made it to his destination without being on CCTV at any train station or building he passed by. Considering that’s the main method of transport for us in Tokyo I would immediately look at CCTV at the train stations if I were the TMPD.
It’s possible he lived in the immediate area and ran home but in the aftermath it would have made it difficult for him to even go outside.
He could have had a bike but it would also mean he didn’t live that far off.
Or, like discussed previously in the thread, he had a car and made his escape that way which would be more consistent with how he seemed to disappear after leaving the house with no trace outside.
But skateboarding through the night I really doubt.
I think he blended in too but in front of other people during the morning someone would have remembered something. It makes me think his disappearance was more immediate.

 

[Incoherent]

View attachment 494228
I see him everywhere

It’s on my mind more these days too now that I use and pass by Chitose Karasuyama station a lot of the time. When I’m thinking over everything some nights I feel the urge to walk over to the house with a notebook. But the last thing I need is to be seen regularly hanging around and looking suspicious haha.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

@FacelessPodcast

Do you know if TMPD went around schools taking fingerprints? Presumably if they thought the killer was young, schools would be a perfect place to find such a person. If they have fingerprinted approximately 1 million men that's a massive and very impressive undertaking, and it feels like there are only certain groups of young men who could have avoided such a sweep.

One such group would be "protected" young men who fell outside of TMPD's jurisdiction, for example those residing on foreign soil or having diplomatic immunity. And of course another would be young men who left Japan. Both of which fit your own POI. It does feel like a native Japanese teenager would have struggled to escape detection, unless they fell so far outside the expected criteria that nobody would notice them at all.

Re: The children's park. It looks like the ground is gravel today, but perhaps it wasn't at the time? I'd never have attempted to roller-blade on gravel unless I *wanted* to hurt myself.

And to be honest, with regard to skating, to me the killer's clothes just look like fairly fashionable clothes for the time. Kind of a blend of skater/hip-hop, but the fashionable interpretation of it rather than functional apparel worn by actual skaters. The clothes look more like the kind of thing fashionable teenagers in the early 2000's might have worn to a night out with friends at a club or music concert.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Considering the killer didn’t change his trousers or shoes you would assume after committing brutal murder that he didn’t exactly look pristine right? No blood on those large, white tennis shoes after walking around in a blood soaked house for hours?
If he did wait until the first trains he waited with a pretty bad hand injury, in the freezing cold, then took the train with others in central Tokyo and made it to his destination without being on CCTV at any train station or building he passed by.

Exactly this. He hasn't shown up on any CCTV nor was a single witness ever found on any forms of public transport. So either it's a miracle or he simply didn't take the train. The notion that a man with a bandaged hand -which includes sanitary pads- wearing no jacket and Mikio's sweater which, I believe, was brightly coloured with the English alphabet on the back, was simply not seen... It just doesn't stack up to me. Is it possible such a person could travel on public transport and not be noticed by anyone / somehow evade all CCTV. I suppose. But it's unlikely to the point of ridiculousness JMO. Edit: a single credible witness has never been found full stop. None of the 'witnesses' that night were taken seriously based on their inconsistencies.

Considering that’s the main method of transport for us in Tokyo I would immediately look at CCTV at the train stations if I were the TMPD.

They did. They found nothing across 24 years and 280,000+ personnel.

It’s possible he lived in the immediate area and ran home but in the aftermath it would have made it difficult for him to even go outside.

I know they flooded the area and they got zilch.

He could have had a bike but it would also mean he didn’t live that far off.

He would also be riding one-handed.

Or, like discussed previously in the thread, he had a car and made his escape that way which would be more consistent with how he seemed to disappear after leaving the house with no trace outside.
But skateboarding through the night I really doubt.
I think he blended in too but in front of other people during the morning someone would have remembered something. It makes me think his disappearance was more immediate.

Hard agree.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

It’s on my mind more these days too now that I use and pass by Chitose Karasuyama station a lot of the time. When I’m thinking over everything some nights I feel the urge to walk over to the house with a notebook. But the last thing I need is to be seen regularly hanging around and looking suspicious haha.

When I'm next in Tokyo, I'll let you know. We'll go together, safety in numbers.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

@FacelessPodcast

Do you know if TMPD went around schools taking fingerprints? Presumably if they thought the killer was young, schools would be a perfect place to find such a person. If they have fingerprinted approximately 1 million men that's a massive and very impressive undertaking, and it feels like there are only certain groups of young men who could have avoided such a sweep.

Great question. They did look at schools, yes. From various interviews I did, the detectives weren't exactly shy about impelling people to give up their fingerprints, either. One of the skaters, for example, wasn't even asked -- "Give me your hand," was how he put it. But even beyond fingerprints, how is a schoolboy with an injured hand who is *possibly* at least part-foreign, going to evade the attention of the detectives? I'm assuming they first would have spoken to teachers: has any of your students returned from the holidays with an injured hand? Acting strangely? Etc.

One such group would be "protected" young men who fell outside of TMPD's jurisdiction, for example those residing on foreign soil or having diplomatic immunity. And of course another would be young men who left Japan. Both of which fit your own POI. It does feel like a native Japanese teenager would have struggled to escape detection, unless they fell so far outside the expected criteria that nobody would notice them at all.

Exactly that. Another possibility would be that he left Tokyo immediately and put miles between him and the crime scene. But again, same problem. If he's a teenage boy, how did he do this while avoiding trains and buses? How did he do this while not showing up on CCTV? Perhaps the TMPD don't know who they were looking for on those cameras but from interviews I did, it seems they're adamant they don't have him on film. That tells me that they were looking for something specific, most likely several things.

Re: The children's park. It looks like the ground is gravel today, but perhaps it wasn't at the time? I'd never have attempted to roller-blade on gravel unless I *wanted* to hurt myself.

I'm sure the photos from the investigation in the press would answer that. I was first there in 2010 and it was gravel and stone back then. As I said, the skaters were using the skate park, not the playground. Not that it matters.

And to be honest, with regard to skating, to me the killer's clothes just look like fairly fashionable clothes for the time. Kind of a blend of skater/hip-hop, but the fashionable interpretation of it rather than functional apparel worn by actual skaters. The clothes look more like the kind of thing fashionable teenagers in the early 2000's might have worn to a night out with friends at a club or music concert.

That's what I think, too. At any rate, we know he covered his face and wore a low-brimmed hat. Considering he murdered four human beings that night, it seems more likely he chose his clothes accordingly as opposed to some fashion statement to let us know what particular subculture he felt at home in.

 

[minamoon]

That's what I think, too. At any rate, we know he covered his face and wore a low-brimmed hat.

Sorry if this was mentioned somewhere else but could we imagine that this person wore these arriving to the house because the family might have been able to recognize his face??

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Sorry if this was mentioned somewhere else but could we imagine that this person wore these arriving to the house because the family might have been able to recognize his face??

Completely possible. Are you thinking he went there initially not to kill but for some other reason?

 

[Incoherent]

When I'm next in Tokyo, I'll let you know. We'll go together, safety in numbers.

Down! After the November break in by the teenagers I wouldn’t be surprised if the neighbourhood is closely watching the house.

I visited during the day once and went right up close to look at Rei’s balcony, and there were some people stood behind me just watching what I did the entire time. I didn’t cross any barriers or go where I wasn’t supposed to, but I felt a police call wouldn’t be far off if I put a foot wrong. I wouldn’t hold it against anyone in that neighbourhood if they felt somewhat protective of it.

Re: Mikio’s missing sweater, I’ll have to look back to the blogs I was reading but I did see a picture of it and it was completely white with colourful ABC’s all over it. Ironically it would be very distinct if the killer wore it out in public.

If I find the picture again I’ll post it here.

 

[Sor Juana]

Here's a very recent video about the case. While it doesn't contain any new information, it may include some photos presented with better resolution. Just thought you might want to know.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Here's a very recent video about the case. While it doesn't contain any new information, it may include some photos presented with better resolution. Just thought you might want to know.

Thanks @Sor Juana. This video is, likely literally everything else I've seen on YouTube, so full of mistakes or outright fictions. Most of these are driven by Wikipedia / Reddit which were in turn lifted from the original Japanese forums. Some bright spark translated them years ago and obfuscated this case with nonsense. I'm not criticising you at all, I know you posted this video for the photos. But I think it's actually handy to be able to dispel some of the commonly-believed ideas which are in fact myths. Now, this video isn't even the worst offender and only 20 minutes. My intent is not to criticise the creator, either. But he's just simply wrong on so much:

*He asserts Mikio had confronted rowdy teenagers before the murders. We do not know if this is true. Only that he had asked the skaters to keep it down on one or more occasions.

*He also asserts Mikio had confronted a motorcycle gang. From my talks with LE, this is just untrue.

*He also speaks about the noise disturbance as constant and something that they had to weather until they could move. He does not know this. From my conversations, Mikio actually wanted to stay *in* the house as long as possible, it seems, to increase the chances that Rei could stay in that catchment area and therefore go to the same school as his sister.

*He says the phone lines were cut. They were definitively not.

*He says the bag contained grip tape and skateboarding equipment. That is based on nothing.

*He says on the 25th, Yasuko noticed a car that had been “watching them again”. He does not know this. Yasuko's sighting of this car has never been definitively confirmed and, at any rate, we don't know if it had appeared multiple times. It's possible it parked "too close", (the words she used in the version I've heard) and that she simply noticed.

*He also refers to eye witnesses who spotted a man near the house watching them. This is based on nothing.

*He then talks about the man who bought the knife. In reality, this man has already been found and eliminated.

*He talks about a possible argument between Mikio and Yasuko. I have no idea where he got this from. The family next door described the loud bang or thud as the only sound they heard all night after Niina left them.

*He suggests the thud could’ve been a fight or the ladder. Wrong. The police know for sure it was the ladder.

*The taxi driver witness: this has been discounted.

*The Tobu-Nikko injured man sighting: the Chief seemed particularly unconcerned about this man, though it remains a possibility that he was the murderer as he didn't actually rule it out. This man never returned to that train station which matters seeing as that it is the end of the line and the region is not easily connected to other parts.

*"According to Buzzfeed"... I'll leave that there.

*The fluorescent dye he mentions is merely highlighter pen, almost certainly.

*He mentions the sweater only went on sale two months prior, which is wrong. It was the Uniqlo jacket which went on sale in November 2000.

*He says the sand is from the Nevada Desert. It's the Mojave Desert. He says the Japanese sand comes from a skate park. That is simply wrong. It comes from the area of Mabori Beach.

*He suggests the TMPD have worked out the killer's age based on the "physical demands of the crime". Frankly, that's so wrong, I don't even know where to begin. But it's false on the numbers too, the TMPD updated their profile a few years ago and now say the killer was 15-24 on the night of the murders.

*He's actually spot-on re: the killer's DNA. However, he's not quite right about "seeking assistance from Interpol." That's not how Interpol works. So far as I know, the TMPD have merely lodged the killer's fingerprints with Interpol (though Interpol told us on the phone that they don't know of this case so go figure).

*For the millionth time, the TMPD do not know how the killer entered the house. They do not "believe" he entered through the window because they do not know.

*He suggests that Rei endured "minimal suffering" which is infuriating.

*He gets the floors wrong and says 3rd floor, which is where "Niina encountered the killer and suffered minor injuries". False. The killer finds her in the attic where she was the whole time and stabs her and Yasuko. They both later come down the ladder when the killer pauses the attack to replace his broken knife.

*He suggests that fall was Mikio's cause of death. It was not, it was the knife piercing his heart.

*He's also way off about the knives. He suggests the sashimi knife ended up in Mikio and that the carving knife was used on Yasuko and Niina. Wrong, it was the tip of the knife that broke off in Mikio's skull. The killer used the broken knife on Yasuko and Niina but it being broken is what likely caused him to stop the attack to seek out a replacement. So both knives were used on the female family members.

*He also suggests the killer had used the first aid kit on Niina. That's the first time I'm hearing that. It's simply wrong. Why would he beat the teeth out of her mouth and stab her to death only to try to patch her up after? He didn't.

*It's not presumed he tended to his injuries, it's known.

*The family did not "re-group."

*He did not attempt to buy tickets at 1:18am. That is the time he logged on. Nor do we know if he clicked on Mikio's bookmarks on not. The only thing that is known: he logs on, creates a new folder, then logs off at 1:23am. That's it. The rest is speculation. And the phrase "some speculate that it was Yasuko's mother who potentially explains the computer activity in the morning." It's not speculation. It's the TMPD who say this. It was Haruko who 'woke up' the computer. For all we know, the killer could have left the house at 1:23am.

*The three killer theory is based on nothing. We only have the taxi driver's sighting of three strange men in his cab, one of which bled. This later turned out to be chocolate, I believe.

*He says there are "no convincing theories" out there. I beg to differ.

*Finally, he says robbery is the reason for the murders. I have spoken so many times why this unlikely to me. But he cannot explain why a robber would enter an occupied house at a time when it was obvious the family would be home. Or why, if he was there for money, he would immediately start killing a child. Or why he would leave money behind, why he would leave foreign currency, why he would leave jewelry behind etc.

*Small point: the way he says "SetagaYA" is driving me crazy.

So, we can see that even in a brief video, there is just SO much wrong and this is the inherent problem with this case. The youtubers pull from Wikipedia and various podcasts which have all cannibalised each other, so the wrongness only mutates and worsens down the years with each new "What REALLY happened" video or podcast episode. Also, I should note that I'm not here to say that everyone else is wrong except for my podcast therefore it's the only one worth listening to. Only that, as far as I know, FACELESS is the only one working with primary sources. From conversations with the Chief, it seemed as if he too was frustrated with some of these commonly trotted-out ideas surrounding the case.

 

[Incoherent]

Here's a very recent video about the case. While it doesn't contain any new information, it may include some photos presented with better resolution. Just thought you might want to know.

It does contain a lot of errors but this uploader actually describes Setagaya and Kamisoshigaya accurately and well, which is rare! Thanks for the video.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

It does contain a lot of errors but this uploader actually describes Setagaya and Kamisoshigaya accurately and well, which is rare! Thanks for the video.

It's definitely nowhere near the worst one I've seen by any stretch! And I make no criticisms of the uploader. When I was writing about this case in 2015, I was completely wrong about stuff too, for the exact same reasons. I think he keeps the tone respectful and, given the state of much of the true crime sphere today, that's something in and of itself.