Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3

[Charlot123]

Please share the link?

Where?

At any rate, during my own interviews, I asked extensively about the contents of the bag. Grip tape was never mentioned.

From the Setagaya murders wiki.

“Each ball was about 50 microns in diameter and numbered about 5-6. Its ingredients included titanium , barium , silica , etc. According to the investigation, these glass balls were produced by a glass processing factory in Missouri, USA, and then provided to a factory in Kyoto Prefecture to produce special films for printing machines. During the search, the police also learned that these chemicals may also be used to produce anti-slip sandpaper specifically for skateboards. When purchasing a new skateboard, the store clerk is usually responsible for cutting the sandpaper into a size suitable for the skateboard and then attaching it to the customer. However, if you are an experienced skateboarder, you can also cut it yourself according to the shape of the skateboard.”

Information of course can be edited but I of course make screenshots.

 

[Charlot123]

I found this archived article which has a scheme of the bodies and the house that’s easy for me to read.

［世田谷一家殺害２０年］＜上＞照合した指紋は５０００万件、今なお増える犯人資料

【読売新聞】　東京都世田谷区にある警視庁成城署の地下２階に、限られた捜査員しか知らない倉庫がある。約６０センチ四方の小さな扉から身をかがめて入ると、薄暗い室内の棚に１５０冊以上のファイルが並べられている。 ２０００年１２月３０日深夜

www.yomiuri.co.jp

Still wondering about the entrance.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

From the Setagaya murders wiki.

“Each ball was about 50 microns in diameter and numbered about 5-6. Its ingredients included titanium , barium , silica , etc. According to the investigation, these glass balls were produced by a glass processing factory in Missouri, USA, and then provided to a factory in Kyoto Prefecture to produce special films for printing machines. During the search, the police also learned that these chemicals may also be used to produce anti-slip sandpaper specifically for skateboards. When purchasing a new skateboard, the store clerk is usually responsible for cutting the sandpaper into a size suitable for the skateboard and then attaching it to the customer. However, if you are an experienced skateboarder, you can also cut it yourself according to the shape of the skateboard.”

Information of course can be edited but I of course make screenshots.

Does it say where that quote is from? It says “according to the investigation.” At any rate, a lot has been written about this case —yakiniku clerks, ‘connected’ stabbings or break-ins, ‘suspects’—total fiction but they always suggest their information is from investigators too. And even in this quote it suggests the matter might be connected to photography and not skating.

As I say, stuff about the grip tape is not on the TMPD case file. It was never mentioned when we discussed the bag at length. For me, it’s not established.

On the other hand, The Yomiuri is trustworthy, (unlike Listverse or Flash or some random YouTuber who is cannibalising all the usual sources). The problem comes in the translation of the Yomiuri article. It refers to Mikio as the ‘landlord’ or that finding the fingerprints made the investigators feel ‘colourful.’ Just something that I know is obvious but worthy of repeating.

 

[fridaybaker]

Wow. So difficult to get a grip on this case sans being able to speak Japanese. When I had the article Charlotte linked translated into English, it said that 18 people were murdered...

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Wow. So difficult to get a grip on this case sans being able to speak Japanese. When I had the article Charlotte linked translated into English, it said that 18 people were murdered...

And that’s a respected newspaper. Wikipedia, on the other hand, can be edited by anyone. The author’s tone suggests many details as fact. Let’s take the sand for example. Now, I know first-hand that it was there. The TMPD says there was sand in the killer’s bag for one thing. But its provenance is not confirmed by any official source. It so happens that I’ve spoken to Tokyo LE and they told me that it does seem to come from America though they wouldn’t go into details as I’ve said many times. Yet the English Wikipedia page states: Trace amounts of sand were also found inside the hip bag that the perpetrator left at the scene, which after analysis was determined to come from the Nevada desert, more specifically the area of Edwards Air Force Base in California, and a skate park in Japan.[12]

The source takes you to a Tokyo Weekender article on 5 different crimes written by Matthew Hernon. I will eat my hat if he spoke to the TMPD to confirm this detail. Indeed he just states the sand was traced back to Edwards. The TMPD have never officially said this. Put another way, he googled it. So, here we see the garbage nature of Wikipedia. Let alone when users go to the Chinese or Japanese Wikipedia and hit the translate button.

What stops me from going into the Wikipedia page right now and editing it to reflect the findings from my podcast? Or to update the page and say that the case is now being led by Inspector Gadget? I understand its been said it’s an accepted source. But I would encourage everyone reading into this case to not take something on Wikipedia as fact unless it’s linking to the TMPD or a respected news outlet. If it’s linking to garbage, or speculation, it remains just that — irrespective if someone slapped it on to Wikipedia. JMO.

 

[SteveL]

To me, the skater angle is one of the things that actually ties the killer to Yokota Air Force Base. They had a skate park there. And, while I only see are a couple pictures, school parks are typically lame and geared towards beginners. Sort of how I view the killer. I think he tended to stay there and rarely, if ever, skated at the park adjacent to the Miyazawa home.

He may have heard about Mikio confronting the skaters via gossip at the Yokota skate park. Maybe avenging them would, in his mind, make him part of the group or belong? Or it simply fueled an outlet for his rage?

Nic is definitive that TMPD never interviewed anyone in the USA. As such, I suspect that was the case with Yakota Air Force Base. TMPD exhaustively interviewed skaters. But, did they interview any American skaters? I'm guessing no. And if they did come across a USAF angle, did they 86 it, as it appears with most of the investigation?

Instead of looking at this is as skater or not, we can look at it as "Two things can be true at once." And, as such it further defines the "Faceless" name of the killer.

 

[SteveL]

Another observation I noticed while viewing the Yokota yearbooks. The base had a Military Exchange store. It still does, in fact. Military Exchange stores follow US Commissary guidelines. They are independent of the nation they operate. There is no sales tax charged. And outsiders aren't allowed to shop at the stores without military ID. (This excludes restaurants.) In one of the pictures, a female student is photographed working at either a shoe store or department there. The shoes pictured are blurry, but could they be Slazenger? Did the store carry Slazenger shoes? If they did, might this explain the discrepancy of that particular shoe size not being "sold in Japan"?

I suspect TMPD completely ruled out and ignored Yokota AFB and HS. In doing so, whether or not the killer is from there, they may have ignored a cache of clues. Maybe some of the missing pieces. While it's fair they initially viewed every single male in Japan a suspect, they may have blindly ruled out every potential male at Yokota.

 

[BatataPoha]

To me, the skater angle is one of the things that actually ties the killer to Yokota Air Force Base. They had a skate park there. And, while I only see are a couple pictures, school parks are typically lame and geared towards beginners. Sort of how I view the killer. I think he tended to stay there and rarely, if ever, skated at the park adjacent to the Miyazawa home.

He may have heard about Mikio confronting the skaters via gossip at the Yokota skate park. Maybe avenging them would, in his mind, make him part of the group or belong? Or it simply fueled an outlet for his rage?

Nic is definitive that TMPD never interviewed anyone in the USA. As such, I suspect that was the case with Yakota Air Force Base. TMPD exhaustively interviewed skaters. But, did they interview any American skaters? I'm guessing no. And if they did come across a USAF angle, did they 86 it, as it appears with most of the investigation?

Instead of looking at this is as skater or not, we can look at it as "Two things can be true at once." And, as such it further defines the "Faceless" name of the killer.

The problem with these “hearsay” killers. I clump them all together where any distant group was avenging a local skating group, or teen group is this.

1) In this scenario, the main target would be Mikio, since he was the one having confrontations with the skater group.

2) If Mikio was the main target, then he certainly doesn’t receive any of the gruesome injuries. Infact most of his injuries come from the scruple with the killer, and then the killer gives him no thought.

3) If Mikio was the main target, he was dead. The killer had no need to go up the attic and kill anymore, especially with an injured hand and a broken knife.

The determination he shows to annihilate the entire family after sidelining Mikio means that either he was aggrieved by the family as a whole or by the ladies in particular and not Mikio imo

 

[SteveL]

The problem with these “hearsay” killers. I clump them all together where any distant group was avenging a local skating group, or teen group is this.

1) In this scenario, the main target would be Mikio, since he was the one having confrontations with the skater group.

2) If Mikio was the main target, then he certainly doesn’t receive any of the gruesome injuries. Infact most of his injuries come from the scruple with the killer, and then the killer gives him no thought.

3) If Mikio was the main target, he was dead. The killer had no need to go up the attic and kill anymore, especially with an injured hand and a broken knife.

The determination he shows to annihilate the entire family after sidelining Mikio means that either he was aggrieved by the family as a whole or by the ladies in particular and not Mikio imo

He was seen by the ladies. And, if my theory is correct, he was easily identifiable as an American. He had no choice if he didn't want to be caught.

 

[BatataPoha]

He was seen by the ladies. And, if my theory is correct, he was easily identifiable as an American. He had no choice if he didn't want to be caught.

Thats not what was reported. Both of them were attacked in their bed in the attic

 

[fridaybaker]

Another observation I noticed while viewing the Yokota yearbooks. The base had a Military Exchange store. It still does, in fact. Military Exchange stores follow US Commissary guidelines. They are independent of the nation they operate. There is no sales tax charged. And outsiders aren't allowed to shop at the stores without military ID. (This excludes restaurants.) In one of the pictures, a female student is photographed working at either a shoe store or department there. The shoes pictured are blurry, but could they be Slazenger? Did the store carry Slazenger shoes? If they did, might this explain the discrepancy of that particular shoe size not being "sold in Japan"?

I suspect TMPD completely ruled out and ignored Yokota AFB and HS. In doing so, whether or not the killer is from there, they may have ignored a cache of clues. Maybe some of the missing pieces. While it's fair they initially viewed every single male in Japan a suspect, they may have blindly ruled out every potential male at Yokota.

Steve, I think this is likely true. Nic has mentioned in the past that access to the bases for the TMPD wouldn't be something automatic at all, and quite likely would involve red tape, politics, etc.

Your comment on the Slazenger shoes is interesting. It's too bad this crime is so far in the past at this point, as it might have been easy early on to get that information. Whether or not the Military Exchange store carried the "odd size", the fact that it carried them would be one more link between Yakota and the killer.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

To me, the skater angle is one of the things that actually ties the killer to Yokota Air Force Base. They had a skate park there. And, while I only see are a couple pictures, school parks are typically lame and geared towards beginners. Sort of how I view the killer. I think he tended to stay there and rarely, if ever, skated at the park adjacent to the Miyazawa home.

RSBM: Yes, I definitely don't rule out a skater connection. What I do rule out is that there is ANYTHING solid connecting the killer to skateboarding. No more than tennis or squash or spinach farming. I welcome theories and I certainly don't want to shut this down. But what I will always do is call out error, particularly when the suggestion goes against something I know first-hand.

As for the idea of skateboarding x Yokota, yes -- I've seen video, even, of kids at the USAF base at the time wearing skate gear. It's entirely plausible the killer was, even if not actively a skater, still wearing skater fashion / listening to the associated music / aftershave etc. Incidentally, I spoke briefly with Christian Hosoi himself at before recording FACELESS (he ghosted me when he realised the podcast related to murders -- he has his own chequered past) but one of the things that's known about him is his influence on fashion in Southern California etc. I can totally see a 15-year-old kid wearing his t-shirt / shoes without ever having heard the term 'nollie' or 'bluntside.'

He may have heard about Mikio confronting the skaters via gossip at the Yokota skate park. Maybe avenging them would, in his mind, make him part of the group or belong? Or it simply fueled an outlet for his rage?

Possible, though would such a boy --so eager to ingratiate himself into a group of Soshigaya skaters that he'd slaughter a whole family-- be totally unknown to them to this day? Plus, how would they know he did it for them? Moreover, how would that get him the kudos he desired to enter the group? I can't rule this out, though admittedly it doesn't move the needle very much for me.

As for him observing a conflict / even minor disagreement between Mikio and deciding he would use this as a story to frame them; where is the explicit evidence that he did this? [I reject the idea his clothes were skating clothes out of hand because the skaters themselves said so. So, even if his get-up jives with what any of us here might think, it absolutely didn't with the Soshigaya skaters 24 years ago]. He could've left a skateboard behind. Or a magazine. Or some grip tape. He did none of this.

Nic is definitive that TMPD never interviewed anyone in the USA. As such, I suspect that was the case with Yakota Air Force Base. TMPD exhaustively interviewed skaters. But, did they interview any American skaters? I'm guessing no. And if they did come across a USAF angle, did they 86 it, as it appears with most of the investigation?

100% Correct. They interviewed nobody in the USA, they never went to the USA--they told me this much themselves. When I asked why, there was no real answer. When I asked why they would go to Korea on the possibility of a shoe being manufactured there but not the USA on the seeming certainty the killer had physically been there himself, there was no answer. [This was after it was confirmed that the sand seemed to come from America and that no, there was no other trace of anybody else on that bag, and no, they have found zero evidence for previous ownership].

Can anybody here provide a reason why that might be? In 2+ years, I'm yet to hear one.

As a famous editor / author in Japan said: "They wouldn't have even known where to begin getting the permissions necessary to go into an American airbase --sovereign soil-- and start interviewing school kids or lifting their fingerprints." [And for those asking why I don't file a FOI request for a list of USAF personnel present at Edwards first and then Yokota, I've already tried. It's not possible for several reasons.]

So, as far as I can see: they are entirely aware there is a possible connection to the US. They have not wanted to pursue that for whatever reason. Again, I'm open to hearing ideas on that.

Instead of looking at this is as skater or not, we can look at it as "Two things can be true at once." And, as such it further defines the "Faceless" name of the killer.

I think this is a very solid point.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Another observation I noticed while viewing the Yokota yearbooks. The base had a Military Exchange store. It still does, in fact. Military Exchange stores follow US Commissary guidelines. They are independent of the nation they operate. There is no sales tax charged. And outsiders aren't allowed to shop at the stores without military ID. (This excludes restaurants.) In one of the pictures, a female student is photographed working at either a shoe store or department there. The shoes pictured are blurry, but could they be Slazenger? Did the store carry Slazenger shoes? If they did, might this explain the discrepancy of that particular shoe size not being "sold in Japan"?

I suspect TMPD completely ruled out and ignored Yokota AFB and HS. In doing so, whether or not the killer is from there, they may have ignored a cache of clues. Maybe some of the missing pieces. While it's fair they initially viewed every single male in Japan a suspect, they may have blindly ruled out every potential male at Yokota.

Entirely possible.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

2) If Mikio was the main target, then he certainly doesn’t receive any of the gruesome injuries. Infact most of his injuries come from the scruple with the killer, and then the killer gives him no thought.

RSBM: Very much disagree. Mikio got stabbed in the face, brain, heart multiple times. He had his fingertips severed while trying to defend himself, to say nothing of the rest of the stab wounds, and then pushed down some stairs. It's true that Yasuko received the most stab wounds and the Niina is beaten manually. With respect to your medical background, I don't think it's a fair or accurate characterisation to say he doesn't receive any of the gruesome injuries.

Moreover, the implication that most of his injuries come from the scruple (sic) with the killer who then gives him no thought -- does this imply that the killer gave Yasuko or Niina any thought after their deaths? What do you mean here? Apologies if the meaning is obvious and I'm missing it.

3) If Mikio was the main target, he was dead. The killer had no need to go up the attic and kill anymore, especially with an injured hand and a broken knife.

How do you know Yasuko or Niina didn't peek down the ladder to see what was happening?

The determination he shows to annihilate the entire family after sidelining Mikio means that either he was aggrieved by the family as a whole or by the ladies in particular and not Mikio imo

I agree the killer's goal was to destroy the family as a whole from the get-go based on the outcome. But I disagree that he sidelined Mikio or that his goal was Yasuko or Niina or both. That's not established by the TMPD, let alone by you or me or anyone else here.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Steve, I think this is likely true. Nic has mentioned in the past that access to the bases for the TMPD wouldn't be something automatic at all, and quite likely would involve red tape, politics, etc.

RSBM: Yes -- it was described as "an impossibility" to me.

 

[BatataPoha]

RSBM: Very much disagree. Mikio got stabbed in the face, brain, heart multiple times. He had his fingertips severed while trying to defend himself, to say nothing of the rest of the stab wounds, and then pushed down some stairs.

They are bad injuries, but are not ferocious injuries. Intent matters here. When I strangle someone, they have laryngeal hematoma, break of the hyoid bone, possibly rupture of the jugulars and the tympanic membrane. But its still a different level of ferocity to someone using a knife to bluntly dissect out these structures and injure them.

The injuries that Mikio sustains are easily explained by someone trying to protect themselves from an inexperienced knife guy. The structures he does hit are Bad structures to hit with a knife - brain in a skull, heart in a bony cage, fingertips possibly trying to swipe mindlessly and calves and buttocks.

If he really wanted to mess up Mikio, he could have done so, like he demonstrates on the mum and daughter. Whether thats coincidental or purposeful we are unsure, but there is a difference in the ferocity inflicted on Mikio and on the other two that followed.

Hope that clarifies it. I can’t explain it anymore imo.

 

[BatataPoha]

How do you know Yasuko or Niina didn't peek down the ladder to see what was happening?

Both of them could not have been on the ladder. I don’t think it can support two ppl at once. It could also not have been both or Yasuko alone, coz otherwise there would have been a bigger effort to retract the ladder and prevent the killer from reaching up.

We know the ladder sounds especially travel across the attic. If we take the Ann’s testimony at face value, then Yasuko did nothing to stop the entry of the killer onto the attic, despite seeing this guy seeming injure her husband.
Seems unlikely.

That leaves Nina alone on the ladder. That is possible, and maybe she reaches the bed in time for the killer to attack them both in the bed.

Again, I would assume a lot more noise coming from the young girl or her young mother in the attic if they knew they were getting attacked or about to be getting attacked.

I can believe the no noise or little noise in the attic if these people were caught completely unawares in their bed, but to think that these guys, in full consciousness, before getting attacked, made no noises, seems almost impossible in my view.

 

[BatataPoha]

But I disagree that he sidelined Mikio or that his goal was Yasuko or Niina or both.

Never said his goal was Yasuko or Niina so I dunno who you are disagreeing with here. As for sidelining Mikio, thats a misinterpretation of what I said. He was done with killing Mikio and didn’t exhibit any of the immense ferocity that he showed subsequently to the others. It could be incidental or purposeful. We don’t know that.

What that tells us though is that while killing Mikio was certainly the killer’s intent, killing him in a ferocious manner was not, making it difficult for me to believe that he was the sole target of his hatred.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

They are bad injuries, but are not ferocious injuries. Intent matters here. When I strangle someone, they have laryngeal hematoma, break of the hyoid bone, possibly rupture of the jugulars and the tympanic membrane. But its still a different level of ferocity to someone using a knife to bluntly dissect out these structures and injure them.

The injuries that Mikio sustains are easily explained by someone trying to protect themselves from an inexperienced knife guy. The structures he does hit are Bad structures to hit with a knife - brain in a skull, heart in a bony cage, fingertips possibly trying to swipe mindlessly and calves and buttocks.

If he really wanted to mess up Mikio, he could have done so, like he demonstrates on the mum and daughter. Whether thats coincidental or purposeful we are unsure, but there is a difference in the ferocity inflicted on Mikio and on the other two that followed.

Hope that clarifies it. I can’t explain it anymore imo.

1. So, Being stabbed in the face and brain isn’t gruesome then. It’s not ferocious. Right. Whether it’s explicable or not by self defence, I don’t need a medical background to dismiss that out of hand.

2. You’re right that there are differences in the way that they’re all murdered. You’re also right that we don’t know what that means. But this is common knowledge that I was obviously already in possession of.

3. I note you didn’t clarify your point about my lacking respect for the victims or not from earlier in the thread.

So, I think we’ve taken our conversation as far as it’s going to go. Thank you for your contributions to the thread and the best of luck with contacting the TMPD.

 

[Cryptic]

Whether or not the Military Exchange store carried the "odd size", the fact that it carried them would be one more link between Yakota and the killer.

For better or for worse, I would say.....

Its unlikely that the Military Exchange carried foreign shoe sizes. The vast majority of merchandise came straight from the US. This would probably go double for clothing articles due to style considerations and the desire to have common US sizes.

The only exceptions that I remember in Germany were a handful of higher end / glass display case German specialty items such as expensive binoculars, cameras, pocket / kitchen knives, and probably some cuckoo clocks.

As a curious side note, the Base Exchange / Rod and Gun club also sold (or more likely brokered) highly sought after German fire arms, including pistols. But.... I also vaguely remember that you needed to have transfer orders to the US before one could actually purchase them.