Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #4

[Incoherent]

From what I've read on here and from you and Nic specifically vouching that TMPD are top bar and investigated every avenue and I truly hope they expanded their nets to those on the sidelines.

RSBM: Yes, despite some of their methods that I don’t agree with and the faults they have I think they are world class.
IMO the one avenue they have not (seemingly) explored and refuse to comment further on is the one that possibly holds the key to this. I say seemingly because if they have they are not releasing the information, which isn’t uncommon for them to withhold especially if they found something.

And it is not just me, or Nic, that thinks this way either. I was scrolling through comments in Japanese on a news clip about the case and this was the top like comment translated into English:

“This incident is believed to have been committed by a foreign criminal. If it were a Japanese person, it would have been dismissed as petty theft and he would not have taken the lives of the residents. If it was a foreigner, it will become an international issue. It seems likely that politics are intervening to silence the public security forces. With all the evidence, there is no way the TMPD wouldn't be able to catch the culprit.”

Many similar comments from the Japanese public too. Make of that what you will.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

RSBM: Yes, despite some of their methods that I don’t agree with and the faults they have I think they are world class.
IMO the one avenue they have not (seemingly) explored and refuse to comment further on is the one that possibly holds the key to this. I say seemingly because if they have they are not releasing the information, which isn’t uncommon for them to withhold especially if they found something.

And it is not just me, or Nic, that thinks this way either. I was scrolling through comments in Japanese on a news clip about the case and this was the top like comment translated into English:

“This incident is believed to have been committed by a foreign criminal. If it were a Japanese person, it would have been dismissed as petty theft and he would not have taken the lives of the residents. If it was a foreigner, it will become an international issue. It seems likely that politics are intervening to silence the public security forces. With all the evidence, there is no way the TMPD wouldn't be able to catch the culprit.”

Many similar comments from the Japanese public too. Make of that what you will.

I agree as well.

I hope TMPD sifted through a large web of associations not just from the murdered family but Ann's family associations as well as large as it might be... either could expand quite large into interminglings of a foreigner far removed but close enough to feel comfortable with the house, area, familial routines/habits, Town Seven, etc.

Even if they are long gone out of Japan, someone in Japan might know something that could be a huge tip and breakthrough.

MOO - cash rewards in Canada (can't speak for US but likely similar) is used by LE usually to try to lure someone or tempt someone into a talking or a tip. It's a ploy tactic to weigh on people or associations that might know something/anything.

I don't think it's used often unless LE thinks others might know some form of information as they aren't used for all cases/crimes here. I cannot speak for Japan's use of cash rewards, but I find when done in Canada it's usually a clue to me that they have ideas but just need someone to talk or give the smallest bit of info to gain traction. JMO

 

[Incoherent]

I agree as well.

I hope TMPD sifted through a large web of associations not just from the murdered family but Ann's family associations as well as large as it might be... either could expand quite large into interminglings of a foreigner far removed but close enough to feel comfortable with the house, area, familial routines/habits, Town Seven, etc.

Even if they are long gone out of Japan, someone in Japan might know something that could be a huge tip and breakthrough.

MOO - cash rewards in Canada (can't speak for US but likely similar) is used by LE usually to try to lure someone or tempt someone into a talking or a tip. It's a ploy tactic to weigh on people or associations that might know something/anything.

I don't think it's used often unless LE thinks others might know some form of information as they aren't used for all cases/crimes here. I cannot speak for Japan's use of cash rewards, but I find when done in Canada it's usually a clue to me that they have ideas but just need someone to talk or give the smallest bit of info to gain traction. JMO

Currently there are some fairly large rewards for some wanted criminals here. The largest is for a man named Yoichi Hatta who deliberately rammed his car into two teenagers on motorbikes after an argument, killing one of them, then ran away from his car and managed to disappear completely as of two years ago. That reward stands at ¥6,000,000 or $42,000 USD for his capture. But they have CCTV of him and know essentially everything about him already.

The reward for information that leads to the capture of the faceless man is currently ¥20,000,000 or $139,000 USD. A huge difference between Japan’s current most wanted and the faceless man even after 24 years.

It’s a whole different ball game. And why might that be?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Currently there are some fairly large rewards for some wanted criminals here. The largest is for a man named Yoichi Hatta who deliberately rammed his car into two teenagers on motorbikes after an argument, killing one of them, then ran away from his car and managed to disappear completely as of two years ago. That reward stands at ¥6,000,000 or $42,000 USD for his capture. But they have CCTV of him and know essentially everything about him already.

The reward for information that leads to the capture of the faceless man is currently ¥20,000,000 or $139,000 USD. A huge difference between Japan’s current most wanted and the faceless man even after 24 years.

It’s a whole different ball game. And why might that be?

Hhhmm, I'm guessing here

So sounds like both crimes it would seem logical - ONE person out there somewhere knows something about both culprits or their involvement and/or whereabouts.

For the 'road rage' type incident, he may have some help from someone to stay hidden. So someone needs to talk.

For the faceless man, stakes are much higher and the severity of the crime, so higher reward?

I'm unsure the punishment/sentences in Japan. Are they different for let's say 2nd degree (road rage) and premeditated (Miyazawa family)?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

There is an insightful verified anthropologist poster here on WS, I'm unsure if she ever posted on this case or threads... Not that I can see but I didn't look that hard either lol... She was pretty spot on on the Idaho 4 suspect (which I oddly find slightly similar to this crime for some reason).

I'd be very curious to hear her thoughts on this killer. I'm unsure she'd delve into demographics, but maybe more personality and who they are as a person/habits (where I find myself tending to go!) Tempted to invite her to this thread.

 

[annemc2]

I miiiight have seen her pop in here? But yes, I agree - she always has super interesting and insightful viewpoints and opinions. Send out that invitation! She can always respectfully decline

You know, it had never crossed my mind to liken this case to the Idaho 4 which in retrospect is wild. Same number of people, same weapon of choice, same type of frenzied attack. I haven't followed too closely during the court shenanigans but when more info starts coming out it will be very interesting to see if there are more parallels (especially on motive and the distorted thought patterns behind it).

 

[cenazoic]

it had never crossed my mind to liken this case to the Idaho 4

Agreed, lots of interesting parallels.

The reward for information that leads to the capture of the faceless man is currently ¥20,000,000 or $139,000 USD. A huge difference between Japan’s current most wanted and the faceless man even after 24 years.

Interesting! Do we know anything about either:
1- TCMP’s policies/procedures that may cause a ‘blind spot’ ,so to speak. That might contribute to their inability to identify and/or find these two? In the Miyazawa case obviously there are potential international repercussions if the perp is not Japanese, but are there other possible reasons, using these two cases as the examples?

2- how easy is it to hide in Japan?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I miiiight have seen her pop in here? But yes, I agree - she always has super interesting and insightful viewpoints and opinions. Send out that invitation! She can always respectfully decline

Oh good to know she was likely in here somewhere! I'll do a better search when I have time to go back and look and maybe I can reply to her post to rehash her comments if she had any. I might send her an invite as well if anything has changed since her last posts if from years ago

You know, it had never crossed my mind to liken this case to the Idaho 4 which in retrospect is wild. Same number of people, same weapon of choice, same type of frenzied attack. I haven't followed too closely during the court shenanigans but when more info starts coming out it will be very interesting to see if there are more parallels (especially on motive and the distorted thought patterns behind it).

I stopped following the Idaho 4 for the trial as well for the most part. Yes, killer intellectually intelligent and educated but antisocial/loner type who IIRC had an interaction with one of the girls then fixated on her I think is the theory in a nutshell.

 

[Charlot123]

Oh good to know she was likely in here somewhere! I'll do a better search when I have time to go back and look and maybe I can reply to her post to rehash her comments if she had any. I might send her an invite as well if anything has changed since her last posts if from years ago

I stopped following the Idaho 4 for the trial as well for the most part. Yes, killer intellectually intelligent and educated but antisocial/loner type who IIRC had an interaction with one of the girls then fixated on her I think is the theory in a nutshell.

Agree with the the opinion about the anthropologist.
Not sure about Idaho 4. Had BK killed his presumptive target and all the witnesses in the house, it would make sense. But he spared the specific witness standing in his way. It makes no sense and questions all the PCA. In the Miyazawas case, at least, the killer is consistent. He either targeted one person and eliminated all potential witnesses, or the planned to annihilate all four tenants and did it.

 

[lilykaluva]

Agree with the the opinion about the anthropologist.
Not sure about Idaho 4. Had BK killed his presumptive target and all the witnesses in the house, it would make sense. But he spared the specific witness standing in his way. It makes no sense and questions all the PCA. In the Miyazawas case, at least, the killer is consistent. He either targeted one person and eliminated all potential witnesses, or the planned to annihilate all four tenants and did it.

Agreed; I don't see a lot of similarities besides the number of victims and the use of stabbing--but even then, in this case the killer strangled a little boy and stabbed the rest of his family.

I also think the profiles of who was targeted is quite different to the point where even if there's a core nonsensical "rage" or "thrill" motive, it is still quite different--targeting a group of college students (in a house of young women) I'd imagine to be quite psychologically different than deliberately targeting a family with elementary school aged children. I'm not sure the Idaho killer and this one would be able to understand each other besides some level of planning and maybe an inner rage.

 

[Eliver]

I may be misremembering but wasn't the Idaho 4 cracked (among other things) by using the DNA the way Japanese police can't?

I just can't wrap my head around the fact that, given the opportunity, Ann Irie refused the possibility of using it like that...

 

[Charlot123]

For the first time in my life, I have read about kidnapping of Japanese citizens by North Korea. I was absolutely unaware of this fact.

North Korean abductions of Japanese citizens - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Given that the talks between the two countries regarding this issue started in 2002, in 2000 (in fact, since 1990es) this fact was well-known. I wonder if it contributed into TMPD viewing Miyazawas murders as a non-Japanese crime. Also, the Y-haplogroup was presented as "most often met among Koreans", although the latter fact is not true. But given the information about real abductions and other crimes of North Korea, and the fact that it was very much in the air in Japan during that time one wonders if, in fact, a North Korean was suspected by the police.

Just a consideration. I never knew about this history and am sharing just in case it proves to be a shocking discovery for someone else.

 

[dotr]

For the first time in my life, I have read about kidnapping of Japanese citizens by North Korea. I was absolutely unaware of this fact.

North Korean abductions of Japanese citizens - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Given that the talks between the two countries regarding this issue started in 2002, in 2000 (in fact, since 1990es) this fact was well-known. I wonder if it contributed into TMPD viewing Miyazawas murders as a non-Japanese crime. Also, the Y-haplogroup was presented as "most often met among Koreans", although the latter fact is not true. But given the information about real abductions and other crimes of North Korea, and the fact that it was very much in the air in Japan during that time one wonders if, in fact, a North Korean was suspected by the police.

Just a consideration. I never knew about this history and am sharing just in case it proves to be a shocking discovery for someone else.

May 1, 2023
''In the 1970s and 1980s, many Japanese citizens were abducted by North Korea. 17 persons are confirmed by the Government of Japan as victims of abduction. There are also many other missing Japanese people for whom the possibility of abduction cannot be ruled out''.

https://www.mofa.go.jp/a_o/na/kp/page1we_000068.html

''Abduction Victims Identified by the Government of Japan​

The following is an outline of the cases related to the 17 abductees identified by the Government of Japan (GoJ) (information in brackets shows the age when abduction took place and the location where the abductee went missing).
With the recognition that there are other cases where the possibility of an abduction by North Korea cannot be ruled out''

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I did a debunking video on these murders with a crime YouTuber for anyone here that’s interested. Many of you will already know these points back to front by now but on the off-chance you have the better part of 3 hours to waste…

 

[Incoherent]

I did a debunking video on these murders with a crime YouTuber for anyone here that’s interested. Many of you will already know these points back to front by now but on the off-chance you have the better part of 3 hours to waste…

This should be essential viewing.

 

[Ebakuk]

Was it ever stated anywhere roughly how much blood the killer lost while in the house? Was just wondering so I could get a feel for how bad his injury was and how that may have affected him in terms of shock, confusion, dizziness etc.

 

[Frankie Hellis]

I did a debunking video on these murders with a crime YouTuber for anyone here that’s interested. Many of you will already know these points back to front by now but on the off-chance you have the better part of 3 hours to waste…

Thanks for this! It is a fantastic listen!