Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000

[FacelessPodcast]

My Japanese friend said she's sure they'll be super annoyed if the break comes from a foreigner / abroad.

Then again, if the killer is abroad, what do they expect?

 

[fridaybaker]

FacelessPodcast, can you help me with something: I've just finished listening to the "Grains of Truth" episode and I'm still confused about the sand. I originally thought that the sand could have come from one of two places, one in the Tokyo area and the other Edwards AF Base. Or, is it the case that there were two types of sand in the bag: Some from that area near Tokyo and some other from Edwards?

If only one kind of sand, why are we sure it originated from California and not Tokyo? TIA!

 

[FacelessPodcast]

FacelessPodcast, can you help me with something: I've just finished listening to the "Grains of Truth" episode and I'm still confused about the sand. I originally thought that the sand could have come from one of two places, one in the Tokyo area and the other Edwards AF Base. Or, is it the case that there were two types of sand in the bag: Some from that area near Tokyo and some other from Edwards?

If only one kind of sand, why are we sure it originated from California and not Tokyo? TIA!

Basically, nobody is sure on the sand because the TMPD won't say anything. SOME say the sand was from the Miura Peninsula in Japan, others say Edwards AFB in California.

Many have speculated that the latter is being confused for the former. But as Lorna Dawson says, that's basically not how it works. If the TMPD wanted to, they could work out exactly where the sand is from, most likely down to a specific radius.

I spoke to the Chief for hours and hours. He dodged me on only 1-2 questions. This sand question was one of them. He ended up offering the possibility that someone else might've accidentally left the sand on the bag or that the bag belonged to someone else. When I asked him if anyone else's DNA was on the bag, he said no. So, it would lead to an absurd situation where he's trying to tell me the killer stole the bag, somehow managed to remove all traces of another person from the bag via some kind of deep clean, but leave sand grains in there from America / Miura?

The TMPD say nothing officially about the sand. It's not mentioned in their case file on their website. I was hoping the Chief / they would dismiss the idea out of hand. That he'd say there never was any sand, that it was a crazy rumour. But that hasn't happened. And obviously, the TMPD refused to talk to us for the podcast.

 

[Charlot123]

Then again, if the killer is abroad, what do they expect?

I would look at it differently.
I understand why Japan, an ally of the US, would not want to pursue the case aggressively. The concept of "losing one's face" is not only applicable inside the country. They think that they'll make US lose its face, if the assailant lived at the base, that's why.

IRL, being a (rather) newly minted US citizen, I can tell that it is viewed very differently here. I think i have the mentality of a liberal American, and understand how people here view it. The problem is not whether he was a Japanese, Korean or a US citizen. We women are tired of these killers walking inside the community. We want safety for ourselves, our families and our children. Four people = a SK.

Given where the world is today, I have little concern if it is found out that the person was from a US base. GRK served in the military, Keyes did. No big deal and no shame for the military. Even if he was the son of someone important, in our world, the father does not bear responsibility for the kid. I have a feeling that Japan is a good ally and can bet that it won't be a big issue between the countries, either. In fact, today is the good time to act.

But - I think that if Japan has reason to believe that the perp has left the country, they may ask the Interpol to help. If they believe that he lives in the US, they can collaborate with the US.

Enough of these potential SKs threatening us and our kids. He has to be isolated and on meds.

Also - the sand can help, but not much. DNA = everything.

 

[fridaybaker]

"a certain relative declined to pursue this..."

The only reason I can think of is that there is something there to be hidden. No idea if this would be something criminal or not, but ancestry investigation based on DNA has led to many, many problems here in the U.S. I know of one such case myself, involving friends of ours, and it has caused heartache and pain for many.

 

[fridaybaker]

Much is made, especially in the podcast, about a person being "comfortable" staying in a house for hours with dead bodies and carnage. Aside from the fear of being caught, I'm not sure I agree here. In the case of a person "flying off the handle" and stabbing someone in a rage, perhaps. Someone who buys a knife and goes to kill, I don't know that it would make them uncomfortable at all.

As for leaving DNA, prints, other evidence at over the place, I think a 13 year old would fit that.....perfectly.

 

[AC4RD]

Am I losing my mind? Or do I need to go back to the optician again...

OK, in these photos, it looks much more like a scar to me--I believe I'll withdraw my previous comment in the light of the new evidence. The light band around his left wrist looks to me like he usually wears a watch, just MHO.

Also, didn't one of the photos show him playing drums? If he's a drummer, that's a serious mark against him. (American rock-and-roll humor: drummers tend to be weird. Q: How do you know when the drum riser is level? A: drool is coming out of both sides of the drummer's mouth. Q: What do you call a drummer who breaks up with his girlfriend? A: "Homeless.")

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I would look at it differently.
I understand why Japan, an ally of the US, would not want to pursue the case aggressively. The concept of "losing one's face" is not only applicable inside the country. They think that they'll make US lose its face, if the assailant lived at the base, that's why.

IRL, being a (rather) newly minted US citizen, I can tell that it is viewed very differently here. I think i have the mentality of a liberal American, and understand how people here view it. The problem is not whether he was a Japanese, Korean or a US citizen. We women are tired of these killers walking inside the community. We want safety for ourselves, our families and our children. Four people = a SK.

Given where the world is today, I have little concern if it is found out that the person was from a US base. GRK served in the military, Keyes did. No big deal and no shame for the military. Even if he was the son of someone important, in our world, the father does not bear responsibility for the kid. I have a feeling that Japan is a good ally and can bet that it won't be a big issue between the countries, either. In fact, today is the good time to act.

But - I think that if Japan has reason to believe that the perp has left the country, they may ask the Interpol to help. If they believe that he lives in the US, they can collaborate with the US.

Enough of these potential SKs threatening us and our kids. He has to be isolated and on meds.

Also - the sand can help, but not much. DNA = everything.

Funnily enough, I also became a US citizen relatively recently!

The reason why I think it's important whether or not the killer is from the US airbase is because not only is it a place to hide beyond the reach of the TMPD, it's also an airport -- his ticket out of the country.

As for whether or not the killer is a serial killer -- as I understand it, he requires a cooling off period between murders for that definition to apply? At any rate, if he has killed again, he didn't do it in Japan. Or in any country party to the Interpol fingerprint sharing programme. The TMPD *did* lodge the fingerprints with Interpol as I've said before. And we know they spoke with Korean police as well. But they have not spoken with police around Edwards AFB in California and according to the Chief, they have not approached American law enforcement in this case. Of course, I don't know definitively that this is still the case. But having dealt with the TMPD personally and indirectly, having spoken at great length to many with deep experience in the Japanese legal system, I have my doubts as to how open the TMPD will be in terms of cooperation with outside police forces.

And I strongly disagree that the sand would not help much. If that sand is from Edwards, it's a geographical fingerprint. It tells us that the killer is mobile and is moving around a remote, mostly militaristic location in the US. It tells us where the killer was before the murders and that's the first time we'd be able to start tracing his movements. As for the DNA, in this case it's actually not everything. Unless the TMPD arrest him for another crime and unless laws change in Japan, the DNA is actually fairly useless to the TMPD. What would really break this case is a fingerprint...

 

[FacelessPodcast]

"a certain relative declined to pursue this..."

The only reason I can think of is that there is something there to be hidden. No idea if this would be something criminal or not, but ancestry investigation based on DNA has led to many, many problems here in the U.S. I know of one such case myself, involving friends of ours, and it has caused heartache and pain for many.

Like I say, I can't get into this too much. Sadly. Because I would like to.

If your sister or brother were murdered in their home and the killer left behind his DNA, what possible reason could you have to NOT want to have his DNA sent abroad to be analysed in detail? I find it hard to even come up with obscure reasons for this...

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Much is made, especially in the podcast, about a person being "comfortable" staying in a house for hours with dead bodies and carnage. Aside from the fear of being caught, I'm not sure I agree here. In the case of a person "flying off the handle" and stabbing someone in a rage, perhaps. Someone who buys a knife and goes to kill, I don't know that it would make them uncomfortable at all.

As for leaving DNA, prints, other evidence at over the place, I think a 13 year old would fit that.....perfectly.

That fact that the killer stayed in a house for several hours where he has killed four people -- I think this is significant. Of course, it's just speculation as to why he did this. It might have been because he was comfortable there. Or it might have been because he was hurt and had no other option. I've said many times we simply don't know why or if this means anything. But eating ice cream and melon, drinking tea, using the computer -- none of this strikes me as someone who is scared or panicking. To me it suggests a calm mind frame.

Of course, it could also simply be poor decision-making. The TMPD have already revised the age range of the killer down to 15-early 20s so that also fits.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

OK, in these photos, it looks much more like a scar to me--I believe I'll withdraw my previous comment in the light of the new evidence. The light band around his left wrist looks to me like he usually wears a watch, just MHO.

Also, didn't one of the photos show him playing drums? If he's a drummer, that's a serious mark against him. (American rock-and-roll humor: drummers tend to be weird. Q: How do you know when the drum riser is level? A: drool is coming out of both sides of the drummer's mouth. Q: What do you call a drummer who breaks up with his girlfriend? A: "Homeless.")

Glad you agree, AC! For context, these photos with the watch strap tan -- they were taken in the Caribbean so yes, the man in question is getting plenty of sun. I've no doubt he's wearing a watch there.

And RE: the drummer,

 

[fridaybaker]

Like I say, I can't get into this too much. Sadly. Because I would like to.

If your sister or brother were murdered in their home and the killer left behind his DNA, what possible reason could you have to NOT want to have his DNA sent abroad to be analysed in detail? I find it hard to even come up with obscure reasons for this...

Hmmm. If MY sister or brother were murdered and the killer left behind his DNA, I would definitely want to have the DNA sent anywhere in the world to be analyzed. I just don't know about other people, though. People always surprise me. And people can be very selfish.

Perhaps there is a fear that the DNA will indicate someone close to them as the suspect. A friend? A relative?

 

[ninja1988]

Hmmm. If MY sister or brother were murdered and the killer left behind his DNA, I would definitely want to have the DNA sent anywhere in the world to be analyzed. I just don't know about other people, though. People always surprise me. And people can be very selfish.

Perhaps there is a fear that the DNA will indicate someone close to them as the suspect. A friend? A relative?

There is a lot of confusion over DNA in Japan. That you can Create what a suspect can look like with DNA is not really known in Japan. DNA family genealogy is also not used at all like it is in the US and Europe. People are also very private with their DNA in Japan. The relatives know the police have the killers DNA so they probably figure there is not much else themselves as citizens could do with DNA.

 

[AC4RD]

Like I say, I can't get into this too much. Sadly. Because I would like to.

If your sister or brother were murdered in their home and the killer left behind his DNA, what possible reason could you have to NOT want to have his DNA sent abroad to be analysed in detail? I find it hard to even come up with obscure reasons for this...

JMHO ... "Because you know it was Uncle Ichiro's weird kid, the one with the tattoos on his face, and it would break Uncle Ichiro's heart if the kid were arrested." (that doesn't seem convincing to ME but i believe it does happen.)

 

[fridaybaker]

I finished the "Faceless" podcast today. I highly recommend it to anyone interested in this case. It does a great job of laying out the evidence and theories in a logical manner, and is quite engrossing. I couldn't stop listening!

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I finished the "Faceless" podcast today. I highly recommend it to anyone interested in this case. It does a great job of laying out the evidence and theories in a logical manner, and is quite engrossing. I couldn't stop listening!

You're very kind, Friday! Much appreciate you listening

 

[Kitsey]

I have several questions:
1. You've stated several times that the blood and feces were tested for drugs and alcohol and came up negative. However, it's my understanding that each substance needs to be tested for specifically. Do you know which drugs the police tested for? If, for example, the perpetrator were an American, he could have been under the influence of an American pharmaceutical (Adderall, Ritalin, Xanax)
2. Were all of Haruko's family members seen by police immediately after the murders? Were their hands visible?
3. Ann refuses to submit possible evidence for DNA testing, from what I understand. Is she the only person is legal possession of that evidence? What about Haruko and Mikio's mothers?

 

[Charlot123]

I have several questions:
1. You've stated several times that the blood and feces were tested for drugs and alcohol and came up negative. However, it's my understanding that each substance needs to be tested for specifically. Do you know which drugs the police tested for? If, for example, the perpetrator were an American, he could have been under the influence of an American pharmaceutical (Adderall, Ritalin, Xanax)
2. Were all of Haruko's family members seen by police immediately after the murders? Were their hands visible?
3. Ann refuses to submit possible evidence for DNA testing, from what I understand. Is she the only person is legal possession of that evidence? What about Haruko and Mikio's mothers?

Great question about the drugs, because, customs

List of prohibited medications in Japan | Japan Luggage Express

List of prohibited medications in Japan A Guide to Prohibited Medications in Japan for Tourists When traveling to Japan, it’s essential to familiarize yourself with the country’s regulations regarding medications. Japan has strict rules concerning the importation and use of certain drugs, and...

www.jluggage.com

(In general, tourists might not have as many issues as one might think, having read this list, because, say, Prozac is not prescribed in Japan (some drug company-related-bureaucratic issues), but treating a tourist who got off his Prozac for the trip and is now depressed will eventually cost Japan way more. So I doubt that customs would always give tourists hard time, but in 2000, the adherence to laws might have been way more strict. JMO.)

However, I expect the list of prohibited drugs to have been way wider in Japan in 2000. Adderall is not prescribed in Japan. Ritalin is. Xanax, is, but many painkillers are not.

The court case of a New Zealander living in Japan indicates than in 2000, benzodiazepines were freely prescribed in Japan, so finding Xanax or Xanax-liked substances in the perp’s blood would not be surprising. Adderall or painkillers, or maybe, even Tylenol, could be unexpected for a local. I think if every drug in his blood was checked, one could get a hint of a local/tourist vs “living on a base”. (Am I right to assume that base residents don’t go through regular Japanese customs? Or maybe they do, but their meds could be shipped to the base from the US?).

On the other hand, imagine that the man was on an antipsychotic, and, say, Zyprexa was unavailable in Japan in 2000 and Abilify was. (A totally arbitrary example). Finding Zyprexa in the blood of the perpetrator would be of huge interest…only how would Japanese police know all legal substances they had to look for?

 

[Charlot123]

Funnily enough, I also became a US citizen relatively recently!

The reason why I think it's important whether or not the killer is from the US airbase is because not only is it a place to hide beyond the reach of the TMPD, it's also an airport -- his ticket out of the country.

As for whether or not the killer is a serial killer -- as I understand it, he requires a cooling off period between murders for that definition to apply? At any rate, if he has killed again, he didn't do it in Japan. Or in any country party to the Interpol fingerprint sharing programme. The TMPD *did* lodge the fingerprints with Interpol as I've said before. And we know they spoke with Korean police as well. But they have not spoken with police around Edwards AFB in California and according to the Chief, they have not approached American law enforcement in this case. Of course, I don't know definitively that this is still the case. But having dealt with the TMPD personally and indirectly, having spoken at great length to many with deep experience in the Japanese legal system, I have my doubts as to how open the TMPD will be in terms of cooperation with outside police forces.

And I strongly disagree that the sand would not help much. If that sand is from Edwards, it's a geographical fingerprint. It tells us that the killer is mobile and is moving around a remote, mostly militaristic location in the US. It tells us where the killer was before the murders and that's the first time we'd be able to start tracing his movements. As for the DNA, in this case it's actually not everything. Unless the TMPD arrest him for another crime and unless laws change in Japan, the DNA is actually fairly useless to the TMPD. What would really break this case is a fingerprint...

The definition of a serial murderer is imprecise, but the latest one says “serial murder involves at least two different murders that occur “over a period of time ranging from hours to years.”
So we have four murders in a period of time of several hours. I think, it fits. The true issue is: 1) with this level of violence, he might kill more if not stopped, or 2) he could have already killed more and possibly, was not stopped.

The Gilgo Beach and Portland killings amply illustrate an important paradigm shift in the way the society views the victims. It could have started in bourgeois Setagaya, but if he is here, we don’t care who is his preferred victim. In a couple of hours, he killed a man, a woman, a girl and a boy. No one would be thrilled to have this charmer unapprehended here.

 

[kittythehare]

The definition of a serial murderer is imprecise, but the latest one says “serial murder involves at least two different murders that occur “over a period of time ranging from hours to years.”
So we have four murders in a period of time of several hours. I think, it fits. The true issue is: 1) with this level of violence, he might kill more if not stopped, or 2) he could have already killed more and possibly, was not stopped.

The Gilgo Beach and Portland killings amply illustrate an important paradigm shift in the way the society views the victims. It could have started in bourgeois Setagaya, but if he is here, we don’t care who is his preferred victim. In a couple of hours, he killed a man, a woman, a girl and a boy. No one would be thrilled to have this charmer unapprehended here.

Indeed but it is more in keeping with a spree murder I think as no others have been identified as attributed to the same killer as far as we know. Then again, he may have become neater, more precise about covering his tracks.
It's down to his motive with this one, I feel.

Local person having consumed far too many hard drugs and got a sudden notion that this would be a rational act to carry out?
I don't know.