Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000

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I'm guessing most people will think it's a scar. To me (attachment, in which I've edited the contrast curves) it looks more like lower blood due to compression--something like firmly pushing a button and the tip of one's finger goes pale.

That thing you've circled looks (JMO) like part of a pattern of skin with that paleness due to a compression artifact. The exaggerations in my edited photo look like that to me even without the edits. I see you've had a few other replies ... i'm still guessing most people will think "scar." Good luck with whichever malefactor you're hunting! --ken Oh, ETA that I think I can see a pattern of pale veins in the photo, on the back of the hand. Again JMHO.


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I wish I could be of help but I'm terrible at seeing ANYTHING in photos or video, at least to be able to identify something.

However, I do see a white-ish area that looks a bit linear, and if it were a "slicing wound", it would have been a fairly large one --the width of that white area bespeaks of a wound that should have been stitched but wasn't, in my book. That and its location on the wrist would lean in the direction you're going, I'd think. Again, I'd never look at it and say "oh, that has to be a healed slicing wound". I will say, though, it isn't inconsistent, to my eye.

Can you give any idea as to whether or not this is someone LE has looked at as well. (Maybe you've said and I just don't remember -sorry.)
We know for certain he injured himself in the attack. He lost a lot of blood and it seems the gloves he wore were completely shredded through. So, given all the bones and glancing blows, plus blood and the fight he got into with Mikio -- I can easily imagine how the knife slipped and ended up cutting him. He used a sashimi knife -- super sharp -- against Mikio and initially against Yasuko and Niina. Then aborted the attack against the latter two, went to get a carving knife, then continued stabbing "long after the point of death." Yasuko apparently left facially unrecognisable. Niina's spine was also being hit during this frenzy. So all of that to say, he could have sliced himself several times and even with different knives.

I have many photos of this individual and he doesn't let his hands be seen in almost any of the photos so it's hard to tell.
 
Is the person in question left-handed?
Hard to tell except that he uses his right hand to play tennis. Then again, famously Rafael Nadal is righthanded but plays tennis with his left for a competitive edge. Possible this individual was doing that as he was in a tennis team. But most likely scenario is that during the struggle he had to switch knife to his left hand to continue stabbing
 
Could also be a burn.. I have a similar mark almost the same place when I was young and dumb and didn't use oven gloves. It could be a scar though - I have a small scar from a sharp wound on my finger that does look similar to my burn mark.
Yes, my scar looks very similar -- pale, shiny -- to what I'm seeing in that photo. But it's obviously not conclusive so wanted to see what others saw!
 
I'm guessing most people will think it's a scar. To me (attachment, in which I've edited the contrast curves) it looks more like lower blood due to compression--something like firmly pushing a button and the tip of one's finger goes pale.

That thing you've circled looks (JMO) like part of a pattern of skin with that paleness due to a compression artifact. The exaggerations in my edited photo look like that to me even without the edits. I see you've had a few other replies ... i'm still guessing most people will think "scar." Good luck with whichever malefactor you're hunting! --ken Oh, ETA that I think I can see a pattern of pale veins in the photo, on the back of the hand. Again JMHO.
View attachment 439600


I take your points. Context for top photo is he's laying down with a baby so I guess the compression would be his own body weight. And I know very little about the human body. But you're right, the first one looks like a scar to me and so does this. I'm aware confirmation bias exists but I think even if I saw this image with no context I'd see scar.

<modsnip: Image removed of individual who is not named by LE to be a POI suspect>
 
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I'm guessing most people will think it's a scar. To me (attachment, in which I've edited the contrast curves) it looks more like lower blood due to compression--something like firmly pushing a button and the tip of one's finger goes pale.

That thing you've circled looks (JMO) like part of a pattern of skin with that paleness due to a compression artifact. The exaggerations in my edited photo look like that to me even without the edits. I see you've had a few other replies ... i'm still guessing most people will think "scar." Good luck with whichever malefactor you're hunting! --ken Oh, ETA that I think I can see a pattern of pale veins in the photo, on the back of the hand. Again JMHO.
View attachment 439600
Ac4rd, what do you think of the second photo?

Combined with the fact that the area initially brought to our attention is whiter than the rest and, to my eye, slightly different (to me it looks more uniform in color) than the rest of the hand, which does look pale due to compression, I’m thinking that the discoloration of that linear patch is due to something different than the compression due to supporting his body weight that the rest of the hand seems to exhibit.
 
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Going back to basics: Is there any agreement here on whether or not the killer was close to the victims? There was “overkill”, so doesn’t that often indicate a killer known to the victim?

I’m trying to just step back and look from a general perspective.
 
"They include collecting samples of those in custody on suspicion of committing minor offenses as well. Police take DNA samples from suspects under arrest or individuals they question basically after gaining their consent to register the information in the National Police Agency database. As of the end of last year, the DNA types of 1,296,765 suspects were kept in the database, whose operation began in September 2005."

So basically, unless the TMPD arrest the killer or he comes into their orbit somehow, the DNA they have on him is essentially useless unless they make changes with *the way it is investigated*. They are not currently able to, say, build a profile using the killer's DNA on a local genealogy website and hope to connect with his relatives. Or delve into familial DNA in the way of Colleen Fitzpatrick, as one example. Or use a 'snapshot' like Parabon Nanolabs. In short, it's all well and good Japanese police having the DNA of 1 in 100 Japanese but unless the killer falls into the 1, that's as far as their investigation can go. That's why it must change.

It might change for a different reason. Identifying the remains of nameless killed victims, as they do in the US. Or, the warriors who perished during WWII, for example. Again, in US such work is done for the military who perished in Vietnam, and many other places. Wouldn’t it be important in Japan? On the personal level, definitely, as I have read about some Japanese women finding their beloved ones in unmarked graves. On the cultural, I don’t know either way, but perhaps, yes? For such work, one has to allow and start projects on genetic genealogy.
 
Thank you, Mini, for your ideas again. To follow on from Ninja's reply:

Yes, the TMPD identified the knife quickly and tried to track down purchases of it locally. They found one made the day before at a nearby supermarket. For whatever reason, it took them more than 20 years to find this person. This is what fuelled the rumours of there being CCTV. It turns out that, if there ever was CCTV, it was of this individual. The Chief confirmed to me that this man on camera had nothing to do with the murders. So, another dead end.

The killer indeed brought the sushi knife with him and when it broke switched to the family's carving knife.

RE: unidentified substances in the killer's hip bag or clothes. There are conflicting reports. You can find the actual TMPD information appeal here where they list the information they have released to the public:

*Robbery and Quadruple Murder of a Family in Kami-soshigaya 3-chome(上祖師谷三丁目一家4人強盗殺人事件) 警視庁

*https://www.keishicho.metro.tokyo.lg.jp/multilingual/english/safe_society/wanted/seijo.files/eng.pdf

Not much relating to sand or substances. Some have suggested a kind of 'glassy' substance was found relating to grip tape on skateboards. Others say there was theatrical paint like you would find in theatres. Others say leaves or traces of bird droppings. I wouldn't be confident enough to rely on any of that. Seeing as the killer didn't leave his shoes at the scene and foot print evidence (in blood) is not an exact science, I'm not sure how anyone could know how an unidentified substance was found on his shoes. The TMPD say nothing of this, at any rate.

RE: the killer being a teenager on a rampage the hated females. The police seem to think he was young, between 15-25, I believe. So that's a solid guess. However, did he hate females? It's guess-work. He killed two males and two females. Then again, he displayed the most raw violence against Yasuko. Was this due to her gender? Again, we don't know. It's also possible that it was simply that he knew all threats were removed by that point in the sequence of murders so he was free to let go. As for rampage, I don't buy it. The most wanted fugitive in Japan and yet none of his other rampage crimes turn up before or after? That just doesn't make sense.

RE: the killer being a skateboarder. This is covered at length in the podcast. Basically, the link only really exists because of the proximity of the skatepark and the unverified possibility of the grip tape in his bag. I can tell you the TMPD worked this angle very hard. They really went after skaters. But it's been two decades and nothing. It seems unlikely to me that a guy who would move in a closed circle like skaters would be completely unknown to them and that in 22 years not one person would come forward. I think it's more likely he moved alone.

RE: a disgruntled solider with mental issues. It's as good a guess as any. My preferred theory is that he is the son of a USAF member at the nearby Yokota US air base or that he's simply dead. But there is zero in the crime scene that suggests any kind of military training. As for his mental state, again, total speculation. The fact he stayed so long at the crime scene suggests a disconnect with reality. But then his actions after the murder are mostly logical -- he patches himself up, doesn't seem to panic, seems to be looking for something. If he knew or thought he got away it, maybe it made more sense to stay there seeing as he was hurt. Still, we don't actually definitively know how long he stayed in the house beyond a 1-2 hour window. Put simply, he slaughtered an entire family, so he's unlikely to be Mr. Normality. But without knowing his reasons it's impossible to say.

RE: a profile, there was an Asahi TV documentary with an FBI profiler who said he believes the killer acted out of resentment. Ann Irie promptly sued the channel and the documentary went away. Some have said copies are still out there. I actually spoke to the profiler in question and he was super cagey about the whole thing. A few podcasts go into the killer's likely mental state, who he is, so forth. Frankly, I call BS. We know his actions but not his motivation. There isn't even a reasonable guess to his motivations. The Chief assured me nothing sexual happened in the house. And the only thing taken from the house was a small amount of money (though the killer left a substantial amount of money on the desk by the computer he used, which he must have seen). Certainly, the profilers I spoke to in the making of the podcast were reticent to start making guesses.

RE: the ice cream. His saliva was found on the container and the police worked out he ate it with one hand (by squeezing it out) due to the injury on the other. I don't understand why he would bother with ice cream on his wound when he used the family's first aid kit / Yasuko's sanitary pads.

As Ninja said, the killer used his own shoes. I assume he was a different size to Mikio. We don't know what size Mikio was but it's reasonable to conclude they didn't match seeing as the killer took other items of clothing (though not on the lower half of the body). This, I presume, was due to the fact that the killer's white shirt was completely covered in blood. His jacket too, possibly. I don't think the killer would go to the trouble of trying to 'throw off' the police when he was leaving his own blood, excrement, clothes, and murder weapon behind. As for what he wore being odd. I mean on the one hand it was winter and it was cold. The only thing that strikes me as a little strange is the hip bag. But then again, if he used it for books and pens (as the TMPD believe he did), then maybe not. Still, there was no class at that time of year. So, it's almost certain he brought it with him for the knife. But yes, this case is odd from start to finish!

Could also carry his medications around, in the case of a panic attack, or another condition. If he was the son of a base worker who had the habit of taking off but needed to take medications on a regular basis, perhaps the parent bought the bag for him? Missing his medications actually might explain something about the brutality of the crime.
 
Faceless, does this person have a motive as far as you know?
No, no known motive. I don't know this man personally.

I just know that he matches the killer in many different ways and would have been in Tokyo at the time. He would've had a good hiding place and a good means of escape. He also has seemingly never returned to Japan since 2001. And given how much we know about the killer, it's quite a *specific* person -- this man matches that. If he were to have scarring on his hand on top of that? I would say you reach a point of too many coincidences...
 
Ac4rd, what do you think of the second photo?

Combined with the fact that the area initially brought to our attention is whiter than the rest and, to my eye, slightly different (to me it looks more uniform in color) than the rest of the hand, which does look pale due to compression, I’m thinking that the discoloration of that linear patch is due to something different than the compression due to supporting his body weight that the rest of the hand seems to exhibit.
It looks like a white Y-shape to me. Again, I know nothing about human biology but seems odd for compression to occur to specifically. A few nurse friends of mine said it looks like a scar, it's one that didn't get stitches and didn't heal up properly.
 
Going back to basics: Is there any agreement here on whether or not the killer was close to the victims? There was “overkill”, so doesn’t that often indicate a killer known to the victim?

I’m trying to just step back and look from a general perspective.
Unless the TMPD are holding back information there is absolutely zero agreement on if the killer knew the victims.

If the TMPD ARE holding back information, that's frankly ridiculous. After 23 years and not one single arrest or positive discovery I fail to see the benefit in that. The killer, if he is alive, would know he is essentially the most wanted murderer in Japan. He would know that the police have every proof of guilt against him imaginable. Japan's conviction rate is over 99.9%. They have his blood, DNA, finger prints, clothes, murder weapon etc. So, I think we can safely rule out the police knowing some connection that they're keeping secret.

That leaves us with the paradox we face: a set of murders that seem personal. But after (allegedly) 282,000 TMPD personnel on this case in a police force with essentially unlimited funds, you think they would've uncovered a connection between the killer and the family by now. Or at least a flash point between them of some kind.

Of the items the killer wore or brought with him, something like 75% of them were on sale in nearby Ogikubo. I find that to be very coincidental. I've been quite open that my two most likely scenarios here are:

*The killer is dead.
*The killer came from nearby the nearby US airbase then returned to it to hide out.

As the author Richard Lloyd Parry told me -- "it certainly will have occurred to the TMPD that the killer would have come from there, especially once they realised where the sand grains were from. This would have occurred to them very early on. But one thing is to think something for the TMPD and another thing is to act on it. I find it very hard to imagine these detectives even knowing where to begin going about where to get the permissions to enter US sovereign soil to question US citizens on a US military base. Much less without a name. Particularly if the killer is a juvenile."

So, my best bet: either the killer encountered the family somehow (possibly Ogikubo), or picked them to 'represent' his hatred or rage or lust or whatever. Then he killed himself. Or he went back to Yokota AB. Either way, the TMPD have gotten nowhere with it. So all that to say, nobody knows if the killer knew them or simply picked them.
 
It might change for a different reason. Identifying the remains of nameless killed victims, as they do in the US. Or, the warriors who perished during WWII, for example. Again, in US such work is done for the military who perished in Vietnam, and many other places. Wouldn’t it be important in Japan? On the personal level, definitely, as I have read about some Japanese women finding their beloved ones in unmarked graves. On the cultural, I don’t know either way, but perhaps, yes? For such work, one has to allow and start projects on genetic genealogy.
Yes, it could change one day. I hope so. I mean I don't think the popularity of DNA sites such as 23andMe.com will take off in Japan because of their history / lack of diversity. Japan is 99.999% ethnically homogenous. But I'm hopeful nonetheless that at least the police will make strides in this area. It's frustrating too because I know they have the resources. Their police campus in Chiba looks like a prestigious university. I know they have all the technicians / scientists / specialists they need. There just has to be a legal framework in place for them to move forward in this way.

One phone call, one strand of hair to Colleen Fitzpatrick, even just e-mailing her a page of data, or to Parabon Nanolabs, or to Othram, or calling their counterparts in the FBI -- any of this could mean knowing a hell of a lot more about the killer than they do right now.
 
Could also carry his medications around, in the case of a panic attack, or another condition. If he was the son of a base worker who had the habit of taking off but needed to take medications on a regular basis, perhaps the parent bought the bag for him? Missing his medications actually might explain something about the brutality of the crime.
That's a good point. I know from his school information that he was taking a lot of classes. He could've been under pressure too, as well as struggling with his medications or whatever underlying issue he had. I mean the nature of these crimes seems calculated from the outside. But once he gets inside the house, he unleashes his rage. A lot of mistakes are made. A lot of wild risks are taken. That does seem to talk to an impulsive nature. So, if he's off his meds, maybe that's only exarcerbated.
 
Yes, it could change one day. I hope so. I mean I don't think the popularity of DNA sites such as 23andMe.com will take off in Japan because of their history / lack of diversity. Japan is 99.999% ethnically homogenous. But I'm hopeful nonetheless that at least the police will make strides in this area. It's frustrating too because I know they have the resources. Their police campus in Chiba looks like a prestigious university. I know they have all the technicians / scientists / specialists they need. There just has to be a legal framework in place for them to move forward in this way.

One phone call, one strand of hair to Colleen Fitzpatrick, even just e-mailing her a page of data, or to Parabon Nanolabs, or to Othram, or calling their counterparts in the FBI -- any of this could mean knowing a hell of a lot more about the killer than they do right now.

The DNA limitations are definitely frustrating, New York I’ve learned from following LISK case(s) has restrictions in using genealogy databases due to concerns of privacy issues, I’m afraid that other states may follow. This resource likely surprised everyone, not having regulations established in advance. There obviously needs to be balance and a little bit of common sense especially where there’s specific risk to public safety evidenced by violent criminal actions responsible for the death of multiple victims plus in a manner that’s blatantly without the fear of accountability. I truly don’t understand not utilizing Parabon for possible composite sketch if the act poses no privacy risk with the proper enforcement of controlled measures that’s directed at ensuring privacy. Countries around the world establish measures for controlling risk from nuclear weapons but fail to implement guidance for positively identifying violent criminals responsible for murder and who’s victims are young children- there’s privacy rights but also human rights- JMO, MOO.

I started listening to podcast last night, it’s very well done, recommended to my online podcast group as a must listen.
 
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