Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000

[Interested_But_Confused]

I think these are all one photo.

There are other photos in subsequent posts to the one I quoted:

Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000

I'm guessing most people will think it's a scar. To me (attachment, in which I've edited the contrast curves) it looks more like lower blood due to compression--something like firmly pushing a button and the tip of one's finger goes pale. That thing you've circled looks (JMO) like part of a...

www.websleuths.com

Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000

The DNA limitations are definitely frustrating, New York I’ve learned from following LISK case(s) has restrictions in using genealogy databases due to concerns of privacy issues, I’m afraid that other states may follow. This resource likely surprised everyone, not having regulations established...

www.websleuths.com

 

[maamager]

I was aware the neighbours were Yasuko's family, but thank you for telling me nonetheless.

I referred to them as "neighbours" rather than as family because I wasn't sure about identifying them. If they heard something and did nothing I can really only think of two reasons why: they either didn't care what was happening, or they were used to hearing commotion from next door and didn't find it unusual.

Right, totally didn't mean to correct you. Sorry! Just more expounding on that original soundproof angle. You'd think someone would hear something

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Right, totally didn't mean to correct you. Sorry! Just more expounding on that original soundproof angle. You'd think someone would hear something

No need to apologise, it's all good.

I suspect more was heard, but for some reason (possibly as simple as saving face) they didn't want to admit it. In any country it would be pretty bad to tell the police, "Oh yeah, I heard my family being murdered but didn't bother helping." In Japan it would probably cause massive shame.

 

[fridaybaker]

I’ve been reading back in the thread. I think there’s something very wrong in this case. Either that, or there are cultural issues I just don’t understand.

Let’s just contemplate this for a moment: Your sister’s entire family, including two small children, has been murdered in the most brutal and vicious way, and you don’t want DNA collected at the crime scene to be used to find the killer.

What could be so awful that would override putting the killer away?

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

I really can't shake the wounds to Mikio's legs and buttocks. To me that screams of being attacked on the stairs by someone standing *below* him, stabbing upwards. That doesn't mean the killer wasn't above Mikio for most of the confrontation, but at some point I feel Mikio was trying to get away up the stairs and the killer was chasing him.

If Rei being killed first is a definite, unmovable fact, I do wonder if the killer could have gone downstairs to confront Mikio rather than Mikio coming upstairs to confront the killer.

ETA: Is there any chance at all that Mikio made it as far as the loft ladder, and was trying to climb up to Yasuko and Niina as the killer stabbed at his legs?

 

[Cryptic]

All MOO: Probably, "the colonial way" would explain some Western European Y-cariotypes among the Asian men. The colonial way is always about the land, so foreign men move in, kill the local males, settle in and impregnate the local women.

I can think for ages how and where my Russian ancestor's maternal line acquired their uber-rare mito DNA. It is more frequent in Iran, but maybe Iranians got it from another group, too.

My guess is that the introduction of European DNA into Asia was usually far more romantic than bloody. The British, French and Dutch brought thousands of soldiers, adminsistrators, support staff and skilled tradesmen to the colonies.

When the British and French people lost interest in lower level overseas positions, the positions were opened to vetted Spaniards, Greeks, Croats, Italians, Albanians and Portuguese (suspect is said to have Adriatic DNA).

Needless to say, a certain level of romance with locals occurred. European colonialists got lonely and local girls realized that even low ranking colonial soldiers and clerks had relatively big pay checks. This was probably especially so with the French who were culturally more open to mixed ethnicity relationships.

Iranian genes in a Russian?

Some Polish legends state that the Polish nobility originally came from Iran. In either case, Polish nobility wore eastern style clothing and used eastern style weapons for a long time. One Polish movie I saw even starred a Polish noble played by an actor with black hair and a Mediterranean complection. Likewise, some Croat folktales state that Croats, though they speak a Slavic language, were also originally from Iran and migrated to Europe as a tribe.

Maybe your Iranian associated Hapalong proves that the Polish and Croat legends that some Slavs have Iranian origins are true?

 

[Charlot123]

Knowing something about Japanese Koreans, I Googled “Japanese minorities” and came across, among others, Brazilian Japanese. Many live in Brazil, some have migrated to Japan. In terms of “Asian Y, South European mito” it is not an impossible situation.

Another situation unrelated to the base: a partially Japanese/Asian grandson who came to visit, say, Japanese grandparents and maybe stay to study the language. I think they could avoid fingerprinting if younger than 16 (hence the age as young as 15 in the description). Two things, fingerprinting and alien registration:

J-BIS - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Alien registration in Japan - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I think if fingerprinting is in law since 2007, the perp could have some time to leave the country.
I don’t know how comprehensive the system was before 2007, but the obvious limitation was the lack of automatization, so the person could have slipped via initial channels.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Is there any chance at all that Mikio made it as far as the loft ladder, and was stabbed in the legs and buttocks as he tried to climb up to Yasuko and Niina?

 

[Charlot123]

My guess is that the introduction of European DNA into Asia was usually far more romantic than bloody. The British, French and Dutch brought thousands of soldiers, adminsistrators, support staff and skilled tradesmen to the colonies.

When the British and French people lost interest in lower level overseas positions, the positions were opened to vetted Spaniards, Greeks, Croats, Italians, Albanians and Portuguese (suspect is said to have Adriatic DNA).

Needless to say, a certain level of romance with locals occurred. European colonialists got lonely and local girls realized that even low ranking colonial soldiers and clerks had relatively big pay checks. This was probably especially so with the French who were culturally more open to mixed ethnicity relationships.

Iranian genes in a Russian?

Some Polish legends state that the Polish nobility originally came from Iran. In either case, Polish nobility wore eastern style clothing and used eastern style weapons for a long time. One Polish movie I saw even starred a Polish noble played by an actor with black hair and a Mediterranean complection. Likewise, some Croat folktales state that Croats, though they speak a Slavic language, were also originally from Iran and migrated to Europe as a tribe.

Maybe your Iranian associated Hapalong proves that the Polish and Croat legends that some Slavs have Iranian origins are true?

I suspect that in Europe, the concept of “the nation” forged later than we think. End of XVII century - till Napoleonic wars. Before, most things were religion-based. (But: considering that at one point, 3/4 of what would be now would be Russians lived in the territory of Polish/Lithuanian Commonwealth, nothing is impossible.) Europe in general was quite a melting pot. But, that person does have some Asian admixture and one fancy analyzer gave 2.1% Korean/1.9% Japanese, or vise versa. I am skeptical about it, but at this point I remembered about Ainu people, and coming back to them…

In the USSR, the descendants of Ainu mixed with local Russians fought for being acknowledged as Ainu and not as “Kamchadals” as Ainu gave them the chance to emigrate to Japan. In Japan, things were never easy for any foreigners, but at least the Ainu are the only ethnicity having the status of local indigenous people. Given that many Ainu emigrated to Japan from Kamchatka or Siberia, expect any mito groups in them.

Just to illustrate that when we hear “one homogeneous nation”, we should take it with a grain of salt, and the perpetrator can be, or could have been, from Japan, and may live anywhere in the world.

 

[dub]

I really can't shake the wounds to Mikio's legs and buttocks. To me that screams of being attacked on the stairs by someone standing *below* him, stabbing upwards. That doesn't mean the killer wasn't above Mikio for most of the confrontation, but at some point I feel Mikio was trying to get away up the stairs and the killer was chasing him.

If Rei being killed first is a definite, unmovable fact, I do wonder if the killer could have gone downstairs to confront Mikio rather than Mikio coming upstairs to confront the killer.

ETA: Is there any chance at all that Mikio made it as far as the loft ladder, and was trying to climb up to Yasuko and Niina as the killer stabbed at his legs?

I think the attack on Mikio starting downstairs, and him trying to escape up the stairs, is not just possible but is the most likely scenario. And I don’t see why it wouldn’t have been possible for him to have made it to the ladder.

I am not sure that Rei being killed first is unmovable - for me it depends on the wounds to the killers hands. If he did in fact have cuts on BOTH hands then I can’t see another scenario, but if it’s just one then it’s conceivable (though unlikely) that he was killed last.

 

[Charlot123]

I really can't shake the wounds to Mikio's legs and buttocks. To me that screams of being attacked on the stairs by someone standing *below* him, stabbing upwards. That doesn't mean the killer wasn't above Mikio for most of the confrontation, but at some point I feel Mikio was trying to get away up the stairs and the killer was chasing him.

If Rei being killed first is a definite, unmovable fact, I do wonder if the killer could have gone downstairs to confront Mikio rather than Mikio coming upstairs to confront the killer.

ETA: Is there any chance at all that Mikio made it as far as the loft ladder, and was trying to climb up to Yasuko and Niina as the killer stabbed at his legs?

So yesterday I said, what the heck, might as well use my bilingualism, and started Googling what the world writes about the case. In short, because I probably can’t link the forum, but there is a Japanese press link that I have to read through with Google translate.

Apparently, Rei being killed first is not an established fact, they just think so because later, the perp would be bleeding more, and Rei’s room was not bloody; but there is the chance that Rei was killed the last.

Also, the perp might, or might have not, been a total stranger. It was likely, planned.

Unless I find it in Japanese open press, I am not commenting, because we really don’t know what is open, what is kept a secret, and what is an open secret. But there is one thing similar for all four murders. This immediately brought me back to Mojave desert per se, where people disappear, but it seems that the US base angle didn’t get that much traction on other forums.

It seems that many people think along the same lines, the person knew that he was to leave Japan soon.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Unless LE know more than they've said publicly (which is of course possible) their main reason for thinking Rei was killed first does seem to be the lack of blood.

But the killer appears to have escaped without leaving any blood traces to indicate the point of exit, so the idea that they'd somehow managed to clean themself is not only possible--it's likely.

If Rei wasn't killed first, the possibilities for what happened become wide open.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Having thoroughly read through the first few pages of the thread, at this point my gut would say the perpetrator was perhaps a young military member himself.

Except that I can't see how a member of the military could suffer such severe hand injuries, and not have those injuries be noticed. It's one thing if the TMPD are reluctant to accuse a US citizen; it's quite another if the US military had suspicions and chose to do nothing.

The hand injuries he's believed to have suffered wouldn't be easily hidden.

Sorry for the delay in reply, I've been in meetings for the last 48 hours to do with, amongst other things, season 2 of the podcast (or indeed it might be a standalone podcast. A story for another time).

RE: your point. Totally possible. But if the TMPD are right about age, that would mean he's pretty young for an airforce guy on a nice posting. But still possible, of course. That would also mean the USAF has his fingerprints on file (I'm not sure about the family members or dependents like, for example, the son of an airforce man).

My feeling is that he flies under the radar, if you'll pardon the pun, specifically because he's the kid of an air force man. And, if I'm right about my POI, a high-up USAF man at all.

1000% agree his injuries wouldn't be hidden. However, I'm dubious that the USAF would be getting on the phone to voice doubts about one of their own with regards to a murder all over the news. Side note: Freedom of Information requests simply do not apply to foreign US military bases.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Has the possibility that the perp might have been riding a bike been discounted?

Not discounted at all. Just seems less likely he's able to do that given he loses quite a lot of blood and is injured, it seems, quite badly on both hands. But that would also likely imply he's at least semi-local.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Apologies if I'm covering things that have already been discussed. As I go through the thread I'm trying to make notes to keep track of the details.

Rei had no blood on his body, which IMO does mean he was killed first. My guess is that the killer opened the first door he came to, which happened to be the childrens' bedroom--or if the killer knew the layout, perhaps he even expected Niina to be in there. I'm not convinced by the robbery theory, but perhaps it was meant to be a kidnapping that went wrong?

Is it certain that Mikio went upstairs *before* the attack on him started? Or could the killer have confronted Mikio in the entrance hall, and Mikio attempted to flee upstairs to protect his family? The wounds to Mikio's buttocks suggest the killer could have been below Mikio on the stairs, stabbing up at Mikio's legs from behind. If Mikio was wildly kicking and the killer was wildly stabbing at any body part he could reach, that might explain breaking the knife.

Kidnapping gone wrong is a possibility I cannot discount. But to do this in their home at a time when everyone is at home? I don't know, my gut tells me he came to kill.

The police are adamant Rei is first to die and then Mikio comes up the stairs where the killer begins stabbing him. The knife breaks off in Mikio's head as he raises his hands to stop the blows. His fingertips are sliced off. At this point, the killer starts stabbing him in the buttocks, presumably, as Mikio is blocking the blows to his upper body. The fatal wound is to the heart at which point Mikio falls down the stairs where he's found the next morning. I can't speak to blood pools and so on but I think the TMPD are correct about the sequence. The killer almost certainly entered via Rei's room which explains why he's first to die (quietly). I say this because the bathroom window had zero fibres in it and the photos will show you that climb is very, very difficult (although not impossible). The front door tells us that the killer would have to get past Mikio with enough time to strangle Rei.

OR he somehow magically cleanses his body entirely after stabbing everyone and manages to step the bleeding completely to then strangle the boy with injured hands. One particularly badly injured. To my mind, none of this stacks up on any level.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

When entering Yokota in a vehicle back then, would it have required a driver to show an ID at a gate or guard post? If his hands were as injured as TMPD seems to think, wouldn’t this be problematic?

Hard to know. I would imagine so as I've seen documents that show curfew hours depend on the age and position of the person on base. You would think that the guards might have noticed. But then again, a quick wave or they recognise him and maybe not. It was the morning of NYE. "I was out with friends" / "I was staying with my girlfriend" whatever. I don't think it's beyond the wit of man to slip past these people if you belong there in the first place. Nor do I believe the TMPD came calling to the base.

Are these guards likely to call the TMPD to report something suspicious about one of their own? Especially a kid? Assuming they even heard about the murders or speak Japanese...

I don't know any of this for a fact, just my gut

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Sorry for the delay in reply, I've been in meetings for the last 48 hours to do with, amongst other things, season 2 of the podcast (or indeed it might be a standalone podcast. A story for another time).

RE: your point. Totally possible. But if the TMPD are right about age, that would mean he's pretty young for an airforce guy on a nice posting. But still possible, of course. That would also mean the USAF has his fingerprints on file (I'm not sure about the family members or dependents like, for example, the son of an airforce man).

My feeling is that he flies under the radar, if you'll pardon the pun, specifically because he's the kid of an air force man. And, if I'm right about my POI, a high-up USAF man at all.

1000% agree his injuries wouldn't be hidden. However, I'm dubious that the USAF would be getting on the phone to voice doubts about one of their own with regards to a murder all over the news. Side note: Freedom of Information requests simply do not apply to foreign US military bases.

Having now read the whole thread I'm no longer thinking it was a military member. I based that on the apparent strength and agility required to enter the bathroom window, the apparent knowledge of field dressings, and the neatness of folding clothes and handkerchiefs.

But now it's not clear the bathroom was the entrance point, and the other knowledge and behaviour could easily come from growing up in a military household or being at a military school.

I think someone with the background of your POI is a definite possibility.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I am trained not to listen what people say about politics, I just block everything, but I think she mentioned you, although it took her some effort to pronounce your name? That made me chuckle. (I suspect the surname might common in Spain, but here, boy ...Lots and lots of history and geography connected to it in Mexico.) However - she acknowledged you, and many lot of good things were said about you in comments.

Overall, a lightweight. If your work is "War and Peace", tons of information, one has to dedicate time to it, but but firsthand, thoughtful, insightful and a must-read, a masterpiece in criminology, in comparison, she is the "Readers Digest".

Haha it did take her about half an hour to remember my name. I'll forgive her on that. Like I say, I don't take issue or offence to her analysis. Just that she's reaching in the dark. It was just a shame that when I googled her, she'd written stuff that was, to be delicate, not my cup of tea.

The name Obregón is actually rare in Spain, more common in Mexico (the first president of Mexico in fact).

Haha and thank you for the Tolstoy comparison! That's never happened before and I write books for a living...

 

[FacelessPodcast]

There could also be a financial motive that reduces car purchases in Japan.

My military family lived in Belgium at that time. Belgium, being a small and relatively densely populated country, had incentives in place to discourage excessive car purchases:

A- Very high taxes on cars that were said to effectively double the price of purchasing a car.
B- Very rigorous safety requirements that were said to effectively ban many older cars from being retained and passed on.

As a side note, US military in Belgium was exempt all of "A" and I believe also exempt portions of "B" in regards to sales of older cars. Not all Belgians fully appreciated the exemptions.

I don't know the ins and the outs of this, Cyptic -- just that all the people I spoke to on these bases said they had access to cars or owned them and the market was resale from base dwellers or the local dealers that were cheap. Ryushi spoke to a few around base for the podcast (but this didn't make it in).

 

[FacelessPodcast]

You know, a young military member can have more reasons.

Two men can get angry with one another for virtually no reason. A wider smile of a local server in a pub, that stuff. That doesn't give any specific reason, but a man getting deadly upset with another man, sadly, might have ample illogical reasons. Increase the perp's age, and it all looks very different. But the police said, 15-40, so he may be 25 or close to 30.

They revised the age range down in recent years. They now say 15-20s. This was in 2020, or 2019. I don't believe they did that for no reason.

As for his motive, this is the great question. After who, why. My feeling is rage. And why them? Because they were surrogates for his rage in some way. He could get away with it. JMO