Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000

[FacelessPodcast]

g

I agree with 1, 2, and 4, but sort of disagree with 3.

schizophrenics are more likely to harm their own relatives than anyone else. it is exceedingly rare for them to harm a stranger.

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE59K4J6/#:~:text=The%20researchers%20also%20compared%2042,adult%20behavioral%20problems%2C%20including%20violence.

Pooling data from seven studies in four countries, researchers found that the odds of a person with schizophrenia killing a stranger were 1 in 14 million people per year.

The risk appears even lower if the disorder is being treated with antipsychotic medication, the investigators report in the Schizophrenia Bulletin.

Most of the victims [of schizophrenics], though, are family members, Nielssen told Reuters Health in an email, and in nearly half of these cases, the person's schizophrenia had never been treated.

The current findings are based on seven studies from Europe and Australia looking at homicides by people with schizophrenia. The estimated annual rate of "stranger homicides" ranged anywhere from 1 in 7 million to 1 in 18 million people per year.
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I do not think this perpetrator is schizophrenic, I think they likely have antisocial PD and are cocky beyond measure IMO!!

Great post. Hard agree on the last thought.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

This is a great question, and I have another one a little off to the side that piggybacks on it.

@FacelessPodcast I know your POI's parent(s?) were stationed at Yokota, but do you know for sure they actually lived on base at the time? If the POI was a teenager, his parent(s) would probably be somewhere around 40 years old and, most likely, relatively high-ranking officers who could easily afford to live off base.

As far as I know, American military can live wherever they want as long as they can make it to work on time - I feel like it would be pretty unusual for service members that old and presumably high-ranking to actually live on base.

If they didn't, this could answer fridaybaker's above question, and possibly mean they lived much closer to the murder scene and increase the possibility of prior (at least in passing) contact between the perp and the family.

I can't get into too much detail on this, dub. But you make great points.

Will respond to the rest of the messages later on, another bloody meeting!

 

[dub]

I can't get into too much detail on this, dub. But you make great points.

Will respond to the rest of the messages later on, another bloody meeting!

Roger that, thank you sir.

 

[iusedtofloat]

They revised the age range down in recent years. They now say 15-20s. This was in 2020, or 2019. I don't believe they did that for no reason.

As for his motive, this is the great question. After who, why. My feeling is rage. And why them? Because they were surrogates for his rage in some way. He could get away with it. JMO

Potential hate crime?

 

[iusedtofloat]

I can't get into too much detail on this, dub. But you make great points.

Will respond to the rest of the messages later on, another bloody meeting!

Roger that, thank you sir.

would love to know who this POI is if someone could message me?

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Kidnapping gone wrong is a possibility I cannot discount. But to do this in their home at a time when everyone is at home? I don't know, my gut tells me he came to kill.

The police are adamant Rei is first to die and then Mikio comes up the stairs where the killer begins stabbing him. The knife breaks off in Mikio's head as he raises his hands to stop the blows. His fingertips are sliced off. At this point, the killer starts stabbing him in the buttocks, presumably, as Mikio is blocking the blows to his upper body. The fatal wound is to the heart at which point Mikio falls down the stairs where he's found the next morning. I can't speak to blood pools and so on but I think the TMPD are correct about the sequence. The killer almost certainly entered via Rei's room which explains why he's first to die (quietly). I say this because the bathroom window had zero fibres in it and the photos will show you that climb is very, very difficult (although not impossible). The front door tells us that the killer would have to get past Mikio with enough time to strangle Rei.

OR he somehow magically cleanses his body entirely after stabbing everyone and manages to step the bleeding completely to then strangle the boy with injured hands. One particularly badly injured. To my mind, none of this stacks up on any level.

Thank you for responding.

I'm sorry if I've missed this, but was Rei "strangled" as in hands or a rope around the neck, or could he have been smothered by having his face pushed down into the mattress? I've not sure I've seen those specifics anywhere.

I totally agree that Mikio was attacked from above. The defensive wounds to his hands, the head wounds, the fatal wound all seem to support that. I just wonder if there was ever a point in the confrontation where the killer was below Mikio, or at the very least at his feet. I believe it was said the leg wounds are angled upwards, and I'm struggling to picture how that would happen with the killer above Mikio on the stairs.

 

[dub]

would love to know who this POI is if someone could message me?

All the info I have on the POI is in the last 10 or so pages of the thread. I don’t know their identity, and I don’t think that’s something that can be shared at this time.

 

[Cryptic]

If the perp was the teen child of a US military member, would someone with higher rank have vehicle stickers to indicate rank (during overseas postings)? If so, possibly the (lower ranking) person working the gate may have waved the vehicle through without checking id? Just an idea....

This thread brings back memories of my child hood.

Your hunch is right. The cars of senior officers did have distinctive stickers on them. Soldiers walking on base were required to salute the car when it passed by- even if the officer was not likely to actually be in the car. I cant remember if all senior officers above a certain rank were given the stickers, or just those in command positions.

In regards to stickered cars and dependents and gate inspections.....

My father was an officer with a stickered car. As you suspected, inspections of my family at gates were token. Stickered cars also had some other neat privelages such as being directed to priority / reserved parking at base events- even if my father was not in the car. We were also allowed to pass though convoys of military trucks while other cars were held up.

Anyways....

Based on my gate experiences, I can see a stickered car being driven by a respectful and sober dependent being given a token inspection unless there were very high red flags. Injuries might not be noticed. And if noticed, the gate guard maybe inclined to accept "Ohh, I cut my hand helping replace a glass window at my GF's house- Yes, I"ll get it looked at." explanation with out referring the driver to the senior NCO on duty and logging the incident.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

If the perp was able to staunch the bleeding of his hands during the possibly-considerable time he remained in the house, and given that it was winter, could he have removed the bulky gauze and pads and wrapped his injured hands more lightly, and then wore winter gloves to hide any injury, to pass through the gates into the base?

 

[Cryptic]

If the perp was able to staunch the bleeding of his hands during the possibly-considerable time he remained in the house, and given that it was winter, could he have removed the bulky gauze and pads and wrapped his injured hands more lightly, and then wore winter gloves to hide any injury, to pass through the gates into the base?

I would say, yes. Especially if he was in a "stickered car" and there were no other obvious concerns.

 

[Charlot123]

Potential hate crime?

I was thinking about it. And interestingly, if you Google “ethnic groups in Japan” and read about them, there is mutual hatred, and mutual crime. Things are slowly getting better, but then, there is almost own caste, burakumin.

Burakumin - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

This has been a very tough issue, and for a long time, but what I paid attention to was that people were trying very hard to get out of this societal group, by marriage or otherwise. But then, there were Japanese groups trying to trace the burakumins who “passed”, so to say, and harass them.

Which brought up a question, could one of the family members be the one who somehow achieved, having been from that group?

(Not anything against Japan, this situation in many different, but always ugly, forms exists everywhere).

 

[Charlot123]

Kidnapping gone wrong is a possibility I cannot discount. But to do this in their home at a time when everyone is at home? I don't know, my gut tells me he came to kill.

The police are adamant Rei is first to die and then Mikio comes up the stairs where the killer begins stabbing him. The knife breaks off in Mikio's head as he raises his hands to stop the blows. His fingertips are sliced off. At this point, the killer starts stabbing him in the buttocks, presumably, as Mikio is blocking the blows to his upper body. The fatal wound is to the heart at which point Mikio falls down the stairs where he's found the next morning. I can't speak to blood pools and so on but I think the TMPD are correct about the sequence. The killer almost certainly entered via Rei's room which explains why he's first to die (quietly). I say this because the bathroom window had zero fibres in it and the photos will show you that climb is very, very difficult (although not impossible). The front door tells us that the killer would have to get past Mikio with enough time to strangle Rei.

OR he somehow magically cleanses his body entirely after stabbing everyone and manages to step the bleeding completely to then strangle the boy with injured hands. One particularly badly injured. To my mind, none of this stacks up on any level.

@FacelessPodcast, could the perpetrator be still let in?

We don’t know for 100% if he was not known to either the family, or Mikio, after all. I was thinking, maybe they did share some interests. I am coming to understand what kind of a person Mikio must have been: a nerdy, artistic genius, probably? Could he have not felt the danger of a young person? Highly likely, especially if they shared a hobby. And if the perpetrator had the same personality type, slightly shy, bright and quiet, such people, ironically, do great in “parallel play” because they lack interactive skills. Sitting together side by side, working at something (models? Or some theatric work - the guy did open the theater tab, right?), then Mikio might have felt the man was his “friend”.

If (and I believe it) Rei reminded the perp of himself at such an age, he might have felt slightly sorry for the kid, although he probably couldn’t put the feelings into words.

Also, people discussing the murders in other languages asked one reasonable question, how much do we know about the premarital past of the parents? And could Yasuko, an attractive woman, be the primary target of the perp? I was surprised how many people think the perp was targeting one of the parents, not the kids. But, reasonable questions.

Everyone thought that Mikio, a brave man, was overpowered fast, and everyone thought that the perp had strong hands and upper torso.

My question: if you think the perp visited Mojave desert, do you think it is possible that he killed and buried someone there?

 

[Charlot123]

Haha it did take her about half an hour to remember my name. I'll forgive her on that. Like I say, I don't take issue or offence to her analysis. Just that she's reaching in the dark. It was just a shame that when I googled her, she'd written stuff that was, to be delicate, not my cup of tea.

The name Obregón is actually rare in Spain, more common in Mexico (the first president of Mexico in fact).

Haha and thank you for the Tolstoy comparison! That's never happened before and I write books for a living...

Alvaro Obrégon, a very capable leader, and there is a city that bears his name, and an airport, too. He was of the same material as Ataturk, a capable politician and military leader, every country needs such people. Not knowing him would be probably so strange for Mexicans as if here, someone halts at pronouncing Lincoln, or Kennedy.

But I know your name, so I googled your books, and shall buy one. Maybe not about the Setagaya yet, because you probably have new material, but I found another interesting one. ))

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Wondering if the craft store in that cool art facility, sells items like sand and powdered dye?
If so, presumably it has been compared to the traces found at the crime scene, speculation, imo.

Arts & Crafts Center | Yokota FSS

yokotafss.com

VERY interesting. We know the killer had dyes on him (even if it sounds like the TMPD are just talking about highlighter pen traces in the killer's bag) and we also know that Mikio had a theatre background / was quite possibly artsy and crafty. As I've said before, he worked on the Inspector Gadget cartoon and even has an IMDB page...

 

[FacelessPodcast]

The killer seems to be a person of contradictions.

Quite well-dressed with new clothes and reasonably expensive aftershave. Bought a far fancier and more expensive knife than was necessary to commit such a murder. Neatly folded their bloodied clothes and handkerchief. Would need to be fit and agile to enter through the presumed entry point in the bathroom.

But also frenzied. Unconcerned with leaving blood, excrement, and all manner of other mess strewn around. Seemingly comfortable staying in a house of horrors for hours with four dead bodies, drinking their tea and eating their ice-cream.

The way the killer searched through the family's belongings does suggest he was looking for something. If he took a particular document would anyone even know it was missing? But then he dumped everything else in the bath and toilet, which might just mean he was showing disdain for the family, not that he was looking for anything in particular.

To me the behavior suggests either mental illness or drugs. Or alternatively, such a visceral, personal hatred for the family that he was willing to completely desecrate their property and then bask in what he'd done.

Small quibble: his clothes weren't folded, apparently. I think I remember reading about the folding but the Chief corrected me. He just left them in the front room. And soaked in blood, we assume.

My feeling is that he came in with one plan and then had to pivot to another. Could explain the discrepancies. I'm also uncertain whether he actually was searching for something in particular or just bored / curious or even just wanted to make it seem like this was an intentional ransacking. Apparently, the family maintains nothing is missing from the house except cash. We know drugs can't have been the reason for the murders in the moment as there was nothing in his system, either digestive or blood. Mental illness I've spoken about many times here. Possible but nothing that would make him apparent to someone in the street, he wasn't foaming at the mouth.

I think anger was driving this. Whether directed specifically to the family or not. Maybe or maybe they were just puppets for his true object of hate.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

OK, here is my impression of US bases. People think they are observant. IRL, "it wasn't dripping over the Americans", as I would say in Russian, meaning people haven't experienced anything here for a long time, so what you think is "alertness" here would be welcoming friendliness in Europe. Things might have changed after 9-11 though. But still, more attitude, less mentality. Especially in the military - definitely I see more logic and less paranoia here.

I can't imagine a kid coming to the base all in blood and with female hygiene products wrapped around the wounds, though, and none the wiser.

So...it is not a reasonable scenario. Could he have asked the father to pick him up and drive in? Yes. Could the scenario be very different and the person live off-base? For sure. Could he be not from the base? Absolutely.

Having thought of it, I came to the conclusion that he didn't look Eurasian, more Asian that we assume. Just my feeling. He would have triggered a lot of alarms looking non-Asian and walking around with severe wounds on his hands.

Can it be simply another situation we haven't considered? Ships? Tourist ships? All Japan is a major port. There are tons of ways to disappear without being fingerprinted.

Fingerprinting only came into Japanese aviation in 2007 or 2008. So he could have entered or left Japan in by ship, yes. However, the Chief said he checked with all ports. I took that to mean airports and sea ports.

However. *What* he checked, I can't say... Presumably, males displaying hand injuries / acting suspiciously.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

NO: I see that on that "R" site, you recently were asking about the identification of a logo on a 2000-ish calendar. Has anything come of that? Also, I wasn't quite sure what you were asking about. Not the Kanji characters, but the small, two-part sort of colored imaged below it, right?

I'm wondering if there's a service that offers that kind of identification, or a way to increase the clarity of the image. Have you looked into such? Just looking on the internet right now, I see quite a few ads for software that increase clarity, but I would imagine something that takes the image you have and makes it clear would take quite a bit of sophistication.

Very good idea, friday. I don't have the money to look into this right now but hopefully once the podcast is commissioned, we could look into something like this.

Nothing has come out of it so far.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

@FacelessPodcast

I've just finished listening to your podcast and want to congratulate you on a job well done!

As you were discussing the skaters in the episode "Four Wheels," I couldn't shake the feeling that the killer might have been *disguised* as a skater. And sure enough, you suggested the idea yourself on the podcast.

Looking at the pictures of the killer's outfit I've always thought it looked slightly "off," and now I realise it looks too perfect. Like someone's idea of what a skater might wear, not necessarily what they actually would. What better way to go unnoticed than to blend in with what people are expecting to see. But that would definitely suggest this was more of a planned hit.

I was also interested to learn there's no definitive proof of where the killer entered or left the house. I would have expected the shoes to be bloody, and whether leaving by the front door or the bathroom, he would have had to walk through blood to get there. The fact that there is seemingly no blood around any of the potential exit points is puzzling.

On one hand, this killer seems to be inexperienced and to have made many mistakes. On the other, they've somehow done *everything* right to get away with it.

You're very kind! Thank you so much for listening

And you hit the nail on the head. He's at once a novice and Jason Bourne at the same time...

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Earlier, a member raised the possibility of a student failing the crucial final exams- then blaming the tutor. A foreign student would not only have the standard shame from failing, but would be able to disappear from Japan and have less record of being in Japan. But.... are foreign students also finger printed by Japanese immigration authorities?

Though I can understand that there are different definitions of 'alertness', US base guards are usually alert by any definition to anything unusual.

It would be nice to think that this level of alertness is motivated solely by the 9-11 terror attacks. But... the alertness is probably more closely linked to the Base Commander's career advancement.

Base Commanders hate surprises and hate bad news regarding the activities of US servicemen and dependents. People returning bloody can indicate bad news. Too much bad news from the base can lead to the Base Commander being fired.

So, they very carefully instruct base guards to be alert for anything that could indicate bad news. This is especially so with over seas bases where the US presence is not popular with locals.

Bloody people returning to US bases would likely be noticed and questioned. A dependent with his father maybe be questioned less, but he would still be noticed. If his answers were obviously deceptive, a follow on investigation could be done.

As I understand it, all foreigners living in Japan declare themselves at local police station including prints. This may not apply to those under 18, of course. My problem with the student angle -- the TMPD looked at this hard and got nothing from it. How does the killer hide in this? They would have to massively overlook him. He's got hand injuries, after all. Especially if he's foreign. The TMPD would have to be massively inept the first time round. But to then overlook it for the next 23 years too?

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I agree. Though there is the possibility that the DNA tests suggesting a European ancestor were misinterpreted by Japanese researchers, I agree with you that any mixture of ethnicity would be Asian "heavy".

The knife salesman evidently did not notice any strong indicators that the perpetrator was mixed ethnicity, nor an obvious foreign accent, speaking in broken Japanese etc.

As a side note, previous generation(s) mixed marriages and out of wedlock births from the US military presence and the former British, French, Dutch colonial presence can easily lead to people who today are citizens of Asian countries and are 75% or 88% Asian and only 25% to 12% European (or less)- thus European features would not be very noticeable.

Without going into too much detail, the knife salesman has not seen the killer. It was picked up in a nearby supermarket if we're talking about the same thing. That consumer was very recently identified. Not the killer. It's even possible the killer came with no knife and it belonged to Mikio. We just don't know.

RE: the killer's DNA. I've spoken about this ad nauseam throughout the thread. In a nutshell, we simply don't know and the TMPD won't discuss it for various reasons, chiefly that there is no legal framework for investigating this in Japan beyond matching a killer to the offender database. As such, as they won't share his dna, this topic is really almost moot. If it DOES stand true that his genetic markers are found in 1 in 4 Koreans but only 1 in 13 or 14 Japanese, those aren't bad odds pointing to Korea. Yet the TMPD assures that Seoul counterparts ruled him out of the national fingerprint database. That includes permanent residents and all visitors. So, where in this world would point to a place where someone could be ethnically Korean but not have the nationality. Well, as Charlot says, anywhere. But if we're going by likelihood, I would start with America. Specifically, Southern California, whether Edwards AFB is incidentally. Maybe coincidence, maybe not. For now, I have to take what has been said about the case as a given until the TMPD dispel it.