Jaycee's Girls

[gitana1]

I hope it's true too. And I think it is possible that it's true because they were his flesh and blood and sometimes certain predators will not touch their own relations, and only go outside the family. However, obviously, it's a huge concern because this guy seems a real out of control predator, crossing all kinds of lines. Also, Jaycee may not know everything he did, even with her own daughters. Finally, the guy said he slept with those babies every night, in his arms. Seems awfully weird to me. Most father's don't sleep while embracing their children all night, espcially not preteen and teen girls, and this "father" is dangerous sexual predator, which makes his sleeping with his daughters all the more creepy.
IMO, there is a good chance he abused them sexually, but if so, I'd be happy if that news never got out. Maybe Jaycee is just trying to protect them. I don't know.

 

[Natal]

Or maybe she is telling the truth.

Convincing kids that they had been abused when they have not been, is as bad and possibly worse than abuse itself. So, if there is no evidence to the contary, and everyone involved says it didn't happen, let it slide folks.

 

[gitana1]

Umm, no I disagree, or incest wouldn't happen ever. Unfortunately being a birth parent doesn't necessarily make for a good parent. I won't even get into the famous cases where I'm sure it's happened or was likely to...

I hear what you are saying but there is something called the childhood familiarity theory which states that those involved in, or witnesses to the day-to-day care of infants and toddlers, such as bathing, feeding, diaper changing, etc., are less likely to view those particular infants or toddlers as sex objects, at any time as the children age. This can be true sometimes even when the person involved is a pedophile. It's like a person involved in such care really relates to the child as a child needing care and that somehow prevents them from having sexual feelings for that person, even in adulthood. In China, in the old days, people would arrange marriages in some parts between infants and often, and infant girl was sent to live with her husband-to-be and his family, when they were still babies or small children. This theory explains why these couples later in life reported zero sexual attraction to one another. Yes, incestual parents seem to not fit with the theory but I believe there was a study which held that parents who molested their children were less likely to have been intimately involved in the day-to-day care of the molested child. So, it is possible that garrido did not touch the girls. Possible but I'm not sure if it is probable. I hope he didn't. That's all I can say.

 

[songline]

Songline - You don't think she could be honestly answering a straight forward question? It seems possible that she's telling the truth to me.

Yes it is possible.
However - she is brain washed and he is Child Molester.
I rather they get De-programed properly and then if the answer is still NO then
I will believe it and be happy for them in some way.

He still robed them of a Mother, making them think JC was the sister.
He still made them live in a hovel, and get no education.
He had a computer they could have been doing work on line.

 

[LinasK]

Or maybe she is telling the truth.

Convincing kids that they had been abused when they have not been, is as bad and possibly worse than abuse itself. So, if there is no evidence to the contary, and everyone involved says it didn't happen, let it slide folks.

Considering the words of a convicted serial rapist were that his daughters slept in his arms every night, I think it's a very real possibility! It's not the same as trying to pin every murder in the state of California on him.

 

[songline]

Maybe she doesn't know if he was? Maybe Garrido told the girls it was their secret?

Yes that is what predators do.

 

[songline]

Or maybe she is telling the truth.

Convincing kids that they had been abused when they have not been, is as bad and possibly worse than abuse itself. So, if there is no evidence to the contary, and everyone involved says it didn't happen, let it slide folks.

I'D be thrilled if the stories are still the same after they get de-programed.

Nobody will ever convince them that anything happened.
they will let the right people know.

AND WE MAY NEVER KNOW THE TRUTH
that is just fine with me.

 

[mike-]

PG's history hasn't been incest, it's been violent sex. He has said that the only sex that would satisfy him was forcible and violent. It seems completely possible that Jaycee and PG are accurate when they say the young girls were never abused. Maybe raising them from birth made it more difficult for him to act on his particular sick compulsions, as opposed to an 11 year old girl that he had never seen before, and the older woman that he raped in the storage unit.

 

[Natal]

Considering the words of a convicted serial rapist were that his daughters slept in his arms every night, I think it's a very real possibility! It's not the same as trying to pin every murder in the state of California on him.

I would hazard a guess that most serial rapists don't rape their own children. PG's thing was bondage and violent assault, I don't think that familial molestation fits with that type of person.

People who molest their own children see it as an act of love. Based on what we have been told, PG's rapes were an exercise in control and degradation, which is a completely different psycology. He got off on forcing his will on his victims. If he was acting out his sexual thing with the kids, noone in that household would have been under any illusions about it.

 

[songline]

PG's history hasn't been incest, it's been violent sex. He has said that the only sex that would satisfy him was forcible and violent. It seems completely possible that Jaycee and PG are accurate when they say the young girls were never abused. Maybe raising them from birth made it more difficult for him to act on his particular sick compulsions, as opposed to an 11 year old girl that he had never seen before, and the older woman that he raped in the storage unit.

His songs are that of liking young girls.
If he had some secret from JC and taught the girls to never tell,
creating the forbidden time with them individually.
IT could have satisfied the bad boy...
maybe a band aid for when he had no violent sex.
He is far too sick and so were his songs.
While with some there is only one pattern.
He raped woman and child.

You may be right, but I would put nothing past him at all.
And until these girls are De-programed I am not sure of anything.

 

[songline]

I would hazard a guess that most serial rapists don't rape their own children. PG's thing was bondage and violent assault, I don't think that familial molestation fits with that type of person.

People who molest their own children see it as an act of love. Based on what we have been told, PG's rapes were an exercise in control and degradation, which is a completely different psycology. He got off on forcing his will on his victims. If he was acting out his sexual thing with the kids, noone in that household would have been under any illusions about it.

I think you mean an act of perversion, and power. There is no love there. They know it is wrong.

PG sang songs of liking young girls. He is a pervert. I can not see him having boundaries.
I can see him brain washing them and having secrets too.
I wonder what will show up after the De-Programing.

 

[MBK]

He saw sleeping with his daughters in his arms every night as an act of love. I don't think that anyone would consider this normal. But in doing so, he "normalized" inappropriate touching with his daughters. IF he did not sexually abuse them, he had surely paved the way so that his daughters would not know what was appropriate and what was inappropriate touching. The "clingy" behavior of his older daughter as pointed out by clients of the print shop might well point to an abuse situation.

Jaycee was raped, obviously . . . if Garrido acted upon his urges, she was brutally raped. Yet she came to see her relationship with this brutal rapist as a marriage of sorts. Can her judgment be trusted? (This is not to say anything against her; she cannot help that her world BECAME Phillip Garrido and his twisted truths.)

It would be a blessing if Jaycee's daughters were not sexually abused (or physically, and I think we can all agree that they are emotionally abused, and deprived) . . . but it wouldn't be surprising if they were. They have enough to deal with, without being sexually abused. Nobody here is hoping that they were; we are just being realistic.

 

[Leila]

What Jaycee says could very well be true, at least I hope so. We don't know how someone as sick as PG thinks. Maybe after Jaycee had the two children, PG viewed Jaycee differently than he did when she was an 11-year-old child that was a stranger to him.

But, if PG didn't molest the two girls, and if he hadn't touched Jaycee in years............who was he raping and molesting???

 

[songline]

Interesting, and I see what you're saying. Well, maybe that will happen, maybe not

But IMHO, Jaycee needs time to "just be Jaycee". To heal, to learn to love herself, to learn and grow. As RuPaul used to say, "How you gonna love somebody else if you can't love yourself."

IMHO, Jaycee will be learning who "Jaycee" is! She has been robbed of her childhood, robbed of her identity, robbed of those who loved her. She will be reclaiming those things over time. You cannot love until you know who you are and what you want and who you want in your life.

A man needn't be part of it until it's the right time. A man isn't the end all and be all of healing, just like Jaycee will learn there's life without and after Garrido.

Maybe she'll take some online courses. Maybe she'll travel. Maybe she'll find other ways to expand her horizons . . . and she can do that just fine.

Absolutely she needs lots of time.
and she is a very special girl
I have been solo for many many years and I know exactly what you are saying "a man is not the end to all".
But falling in love can be and growing in love is; and she never really had that. I think that is very healing.
No let me rephrase that. I KNOW THAT IS VERY HEALING .
all in good time, I am not rushing her, I just have that feeling maybe a year or two.

 

[phylliyum]

And you know these things as a fact because...?

from articles. PG himself said that he slept with both girls every night, and Jaycee's stepfather said she viewed her relationship with PG as a marriage of sorts. So yes, these are known as facts.

 

[MBK]

And you know these things as a fact because...?

It is certain that Garrido THOUGHT he loved his daughters . .. the way he spoke about holding them in his arms every night since they were babies showed that. Of course, it isn't love, but, like so many molesters and abusers, he thinks it is. I say that with absolute assurance; I'm not just shooting from the hip here.

As for Jaycee seeing her relationship with Garrido as a marriage, that is a much-repeated quote from her stepfather, Carl Probyn

"Jaycee has strong feelings with this guy. She really feels it's almost like a marriage," Carl Probyn said.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/08/31/crimesider/entry5277473.shtml
{Article from CBS news has a nice pix of Jaycee, her mother, and her baby sister (someone else, too)}

Since everything we have heard about Jaycee is second or third-hand, this statement is as credible as anything else. It is quite believable.

In addition, in a tabloid, http://www.nationalenquirer.com/jaycee_duggard_garrido_anatomy_of_a_psycho_sex_offender_stalag/celebrity/67234it was claimed that Jaycee was forced to "marry" Garrido in a twisted backyard ceremony. I'd take that with a grain of salt, but it also seems entirely possible.

My larger point was that DESPITE being brutally raped numerous times by a man who is a serial rapist into violent and coercive sex, Jaycee came to have a BOND with Garrido, a bond described by her stepfather as being like a marriage. So, if you can see rape as love, you might not read the signs of abuse or love correctly when it comes to the daughters.

 

[mysteriew]

Jaycee would have been more alert to her children because of her history. And she would have been quick to recognize changes in her daughters. So if she says her girls were not molested, then personally I believe it. I wasn't there, there is no evidence showing any different, and there are no charges indicating that the girls were raped. So unless one of the girls themselves say something different, then I see no reason to call Jaycee a liar.

The story is bad enough with what has happened, there is no need to sensationalize it by adding details that the victim denys.

 

[Natal]

If they find fresh bodies in the back yard you will have reason to question Jaycee's version of events. If they don't then there is no reason to disbelieve her. What you imagine might have gone on in the back yard is not evidence.

At the end of the day we have to go with the facts and evidence such as they are, and not with hypothesis. If she says it didnt happen, and there is nothing to discredit her, then it didnt happen.

 

[jjenny]

Jaycee would have been more alert to her children because of her history. And she would have been quick to recognize changes in her daughters. So if she says her girls were not molested, then personally I believe it. I wasn't there, there is no evidence showing any different, and there are no charges indicating that the girls were raped. So unless one of the girls themselves say something different, then I see no reason to call Jaycee a liar.

The story is bad enough with what has happened, there is no need to sensationalize it by adding details that the victim denys.

No one has called Jaycee a liar. But there have been a lot of speculation she might suffer from Stockholm syndrome, and her behavior seem to fit.

 

[jjenny]

And you know these things as a fact because...?

Here are Garridos' own words:
"He also insisted he had not abused his two daughters, whom he kept captive along with their mother their entire lives, never permitting them to see a doctor or to go to school. ''They slept in my arms every single night from birth. I never touched them,'' he said, crying."
http://www.watoday.com.au/world/kidnap-suspect-boasts-story-will-impress-20090830-f3na.html