JB's picture in the laundry room

[BlueCrab]

If John Andrew purchased the flashlight as a gift, might he purchase a stun gun as a possible xmas gift too?

UKGuy,

IMO Patsy gave a stun gun to John as a Christmas gift that year. It's not likely Spy World in Florida would have given the Ramseys a stun gun video unless they had purchased a stun gun. What other gifts (if any) did she give to John for Christmas of 1996? I can't think of any.

BlueCrab

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,

IMO Patsy gave a stun gun to John as a Christmas gift that year. It's not likely Spy World in Florida would have given the Ramseys a stun gun video unless they had purchased a stun gun. What other gifts (if any) did she give to John for Christmas of 1996? I can't think of any.

BlueCrab

BlueCrab,
Yes that is possible, I do not know of any other either. Can confirmation be obtained from "Spy World" that at that period videos were only given out to those that purchased, and it was not simply a promotional device?

Given what Toltec states it would be ironic if Patsy hid the stun gun in the wine-cellar!

If anyone is interested, not only was Patsy using the laundry room to wrap presents...she was using the wine cellar to hide them too. She claims the last time she entered the wine cellar was Christmas eve...when she retrieved the presents.
Toltec

 

[narlacat]

BlueCrab,

I think whichever interpretation you place on "down there", the interviewers did consider it important to attempt to identify the person who would consider the basement an appropriate setting for photographing a 6-year old girl? This along with their statements regarding prior sexual molestation of JonBenet, suggests that their suspect was considered to be a pedophile!

Thanks for the stun gun information, I just wonder why the DA needed to discuss this with them? They had not been charged, the picture would be entered as part of the discovery process? Patsy does not understand that, but without prompting offers up :



Patsy has no problem understanding that she has never viewed this video!

TRIP DeMUTH returns to the subject of pictures and images:


And here we return to the question, who was taking the photographs?


If John Andrew purchased the flashlight as a gift, might he purchase a stun gun as a possible xmas gift too?

I wonder if there was a xmas video that has gone missing, seems strange to simply take stills, but have a video camera on hand, unused!

On another thread and not so long back, I think it was Camper that mentioned there was a video behind one of the cabinets in the Ramsey house that looked like it had been hidden/thrown behind there as the cabinet was too big to move, more a wall unit type of thing....maybe Camper can remember more.

 

[tipper]

On another thread and not so long back, I think it was Camper that mentioned there was a video behind one of the cabinets in the Ramsey house that looked like it had been hidden/thrown behind there as the cabinet was too big to move, more a wall unit type of thing....maybe Camper can remember more.

It was from the "Interesting..." thread. I don't believe Camper was suggesting this Christmas video was a fact. Just something she was considering "What if..." Didn't see anything about a cabinet too big to move. In fact she had one of the movers finding it and setting it down while he searched for someone to tell. Then it was gone when he came back. Clearly it's been a while since Camper has been in the hands of a commercial mover. A little thing like a video wouldn't slow them down at all. None of it had a source and I don't think she was offering it up as fact. If she was, it needs some support.

 

[Jayelles]

It is a little odd that a family who took so many photos and videos did NOT make a video that morning. We always record Xmas morning - we just set the camera up on the tripod and leave it running. It doesn't have to be charged - it can run from mains electricity. sometimes I think it's a nuisance to set it up but I am driven to do so by the thought of losing the opportunity to record a precious memory.

 

[Nehemiah]

It is a little odd that a family who took so many photos and videos did NOT make a video that morning. We always record Xmas morning - we just set the camera up on the tripod and leave it running. It doesn't have to be charged - it can run from mains electricity. sometimes I think it's a nuisance to set it up but I am driven to do so by the thought of losing the opportunity to record a precious memory.

I am one who does think there was a video made on Christmas morning. They always made a Christmas video, and the video cam was out in the open for that purpose. Now why the video itself went missing is up for grabs in my mind. I've always wondered it if showed someone present who alibied up immediately after the murder...so the video had to go. Or, perhaps it went missing for an innocent reason. Nevertheless, I believe there was one.

 

[Eagle1]

Something evidently happened to the customary Christmas morning video for the same reason that JonBenet wasn't allowed to call 911 when (imo) she was molested on the 23rd and none of the adults did anything about it, maybe didn't even ask her what happened. Police were turned away at the door, I believe.

The question is, which guest could command all that unanimous covering-for, and why? The whole party guest list zipped lips.

"With one accord." Unanimous. That's the key question to the whole case. He was also allowed to do all this staging pointing to Ramsey males. Did they see him doing it, and were powerless to stop him?

 

[UKGuy]

I am one who does think there was a video made on Christmas morning. They always made a Christmas video, and the video cam was out in the open for that purpose. Now why the video itself went missing is up for grabs in my mind. I've always wondered it if showed someone present who alibied up immediately after the murder...so the video had to go. Or, perhaps it went missing for an innocent reason. Nevertheless, I believe there was one.

Nehemiah,

I agree with you. Something just does not add up on the images front. Its either a virtual guest, or content that will contradict later statements, such as BlueCrabs stun gun. Patsy denies making any movie though.

TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. I notice you have
7 cameras out and other things.
8 PATSY RAMSEY: I'm not a very good
9 housekeeper.
10 TRIP DeMUTH: There was a video camera, I
11 think, on that kitchen island there or something
12 like that. I may not have that exactly.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: I vaguely remember a video
14 camera being out because I was probably turning
15 it up to take pictures Christmas morning but
16 then we never ended up taking any.

 

[Zman]

Zman,

Thanks for your input. Well given the evidence I do consider it obvious. Its a valid conclusion derived from the alleged facts. "down there" is a nuanced phrase given the context of the questioning, it may simply be a freudian slip, or a reference to the laundry room, or an attempt to deliberately mislead Patsy! .

Isn't "alleged facts" a oxymoron?

I will also admit to never seeing the photographs, but will accept they exist. Given their likely risque nature I am also willing to speculate that there may be others which were more explicit.

Why? If there really were pictures found in the laundry room why did no one else notice them earlier? FW, OF, JR and anyone else who was searching the basement that morning should have noticed "risque" pictures of JBR laying around.

The interpretation that I place on the police interviewers line of questioning is that their suspect is a pedophile!

The police have no suspect.

Since this is a forum for wild stories, speculation and serious discussion of the facts, you are at liberty to construct your own interpretation of the interview under discussion.

 

[Rupert]

Also, please be aware that among the Ramsey photos developed by the police was one in which someone was holding a stun gun.

Edited to add that it was unclear where the photo of the person holding a stun gun was obtained. It was apparently a crime scene photo of a photo. From the 1998 interviews:

TOM HANEY: "The next group of photos are marked 7-15; 7-16; 7-17; and 7-18, and can you identify what that is?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "No. Someone with a flashlight?"

TOM HANEY: "NO."

PATSY RAMSEY: "No?"

TRIP DEMUTH: "Okay. Actually, that is a stun gun. I think you and John and various people from the DA's office had some discussion -- "

PATSY RAMSEY: "Yeah."

TRIP DEMUTH: " -- last July about about a stun gun."

PATSY RAMSEY: "Right. I don't understand that."

BlueCrab

I have never heard before about these photos of a stun gun. That conversation with Trip Demuth plus the fact that the video was real is now leading me to think that the R's might very well have had a stun gun.

No wonder you are insistent on your theory, BC.

 

[tipper]

6 PATSY RAMSEY: Okay.

7 TOM HANEY: The next group of photos are

8 marked 7-15, dash 16, dash 17, dash 18, and can

9 you identify what that is?

10 PATSY RAMSEY: No. Someone with a

11 flashlight?

12 TOM HANEY: No.

13 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

14 TOM HANEY: And there's some additional

15 photos on the back that are 19, 20, 21 and 22.

16 PATSY RAMSEY: The portable flowers, I

17 don't know. I've never seen that.

18 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. Actually that is a

19 stun gun, I think you and John and various

20 people from the DA's office had some

21 discussion --

22 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.

23 TRIP DeMUTH: -- last July about a stun

24 gun.

25 PATSY RAMSEY: Right. I don't understand

0548

1 that.

2 TRIP DeMUTH: Did you follow up at all

3 following that discussion last July about stun

4 guns or anything about them?

5 PATSY RAMSEY: No, just that perhaps one

6 might have been used.

7 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.

8 PATSY RAMSEY: And I never have had one or

9 seen one. First time I've seen one. What,

10 what -- how -- which end is this gun? I mean,

11 it don't look like a gun or anything.

12 TRIP DeMUTH: Yeah, it's -- and we don't

13 have any side views, these are just kind of from

14 either end.

15 PATSY RAMSEY: Okay.

 

[Rupert]

PATSY RAMSEY: And I never have had one or seen one. First time I've seen one. What, what -- how -- which end is this gun? I mean, it don't look like a gun or anything.

TRIP DeMUTH: Yeah, it's -- and we don't have any side views, these are just kind of from either end.

PATSY RAMSEY: Okay.

1. Please somebody confirm whether or not TD's pictures are of a stun gun IN the R's house. Or is TD just referring to a picture of a stun gun to describe it to PR?
2. There was a video in the house and PR never watched it?

 

[UKGuy]

1. Please somebody confirm whether or not TD's pictures are of a stun gun IN the R's house. Or is TD just referring to a picture of a stun gun to describe it to PR?
2. There was a video in the house and PR never watched it?

Rupert,

My understanding is that John Ramsay had a promotional sales videotape, which was found in his desk, it originated from an I-Spy store located in Florida during Super Bowl weekend. John Ramsay stated he never viewed this tape!

He also admitted to possessing another copy which was in Spanish. John Ramsay stated he did not understand Spanish!

So IMO the images of the stun gun were in the above videotapes. But possibly just one of many security items for sale?

references regarding the stun gun can be found at :
http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/doi-j.htm
e.g.
John Ramsey said spy shop gave him video tape catalog (1st copy) 01-28-1995 · 195

or chapter 21. Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, Steve Thomas.

 

[Zman]

Rupert,

My understanding is that John Ramsay had a promotional sales videotape, which was found in his desk, it originated from an I-Spy store located in Florida during Super Bowl weekend. John Ramsay stated he never viewed this tape!

He also admitted to possessing another copy which was in Spanish. John Ramsay stated he did not understand Spanish!

So IMO the images of the stun gun were in the above videotapes. But possibly just one of many security items for sale?

references regarding the stun gun can be found at :
http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/doi-j.htm
e.g.
John Ramsey said spy shop gave him video tape catalog (1st copy) 01-28-1995 · 195

or chapter 21. Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, Steve Thomas.

I thought that the only copy JR was given was in Spanish. Thats one of the reasons he never watched it.

This seems like T.D. trying to trip up PR again.
He's the same LEO who tried to trip her up with pictures of JBR in the LR he himself admitted to never seeing.

 

[Eagle1]

I suspect the questioning about the photographs was calculated to be ambiguous....So the questioning is attempting to elicit two pieces of information one which is designed to eliminate Patsy as the person who has such an enthusiasm for photographing JonBenet. The other question is an attempt to identify the photographer's identity.

Underlying the police interviewers assumptions may be that the person who so avidly photographed JonBenet alive may also have taken nude photographs which are located somewhere else? And that this same person wished to photograph her deceased wearing her Barbie Nightdress.

The interviewers theory is obviously that the suspect is a pedophile, and that the basement was used for pedophiliac purposes. A known characteristic of pedophiles is that they photograph children both nude and clothed, and then share these photographs with other pedophiles in their closed ring! If you take this assumption and add in the other items found in the basement included the semen stained item, then you may have the outline of a pedophile using photographs of JonBenet for sexual stimulus?...
.
Where and why at such a young age would JonBenet have developed such a focus for dressing up, wearing makeup, and posing for the camera? The answer the police came up with is that JonBenet may have been a victim of a pedophile ring, and that is why she was killed!

Police wouldn't publish the pictures, and none of the book authors who supposedly looked into everything has mentioned the pics, so far.

I realize they must also have other evidences that Steve Thomas wouldn't have mentioned as an author, even though he was there and had access at the time evidence came in, and was soon leaving the job and their policy restrictions anyway.

ST claimed there was a dictionary open to the word Incest in a PICTURE of the crime scene, that the dictionary hadn't been there when they went over the scene in person before that picture was made. Was he supposed to tell that? IOW, he didn't seem to be restricted by policy.

These pictures absolutely exist? They wouldn't be just bluffing about them in an effort to get things to slip out, more info? As in the question to PR about what if we have evidence linking you to the crime?

To LE, it would be a basic given that pedophiles, not mothers, use pictures like the ones they're almost but not really describing.

 

[Eagle1]

See the thread about Judith Philips by Michelle. I'm just bumping this up for easier comparison, asking Toltec if these are maybe the same pictures he or she referred to in that thread.

 

[solidarity]

I am one who does think there was a video made on Christmas morning. They always made a Christmas video, and the video cam was out in the open for that purpose. Now why the video itself went missing is up for grabs in my mind. I've always wondered it if showed someone present who alibied up immediately after the murder...so the video had to go. Or, perhaps it went missing for an innocent reason. Nevertheless, I believe there was one.

Could that tape have recorded an angry, jealous scene between brother and sister over presents maybe?

 

[narlacat]

Well, Burke got what he wanted that christmas, the Nintendo 69 ( I think it was 69).
But I do recall reading but I'm not sure where that Burke was a bit put out that JonBenet got more presents than him.

 

[Shelayne]

That would be Nintendo 64.

I don't think it is so strange that Patsy had the video camera ready to go, but didn't take any video. I did that two years in a row (I know, rotten mommy). I took stills, but forgot to take video. Thankfully, hubby took that role this past Christmas, since mommy was a proven :loser:. Finally, we had Christmas footage! oops.... In my defense, it is very easy to get caught up in watching and helping and forget to actually film it!

 

[Nuisanceposter]

John Ramsey said there was no Christmas video because the batteries for the camcorder weren't charged up. I can believe that, but I also wouldn't be surprised if that was found to be a lie.