"Jersey" and MW #2

[tlcya]

So we've really reached a dead in when the case is now a means to entertain at parties.

Sorry, I know that is not how the post was intended, but parlor game just rubbed me wrong. The problem is me. It is time for me to log off.

 

[DeAnn]

I hear ya. But I only stated this because the logic of Jersey must not be responsible because he has not been charged with anything must also apply to everybody else as nobody has been charged with anything. I am not sure of anything on this case 100%, but Jersey has waaaaay too many things that make you go hmmmmm that make it impossible for me to totally bypass him yet as being any kind of innocent.

I know you don't believe it, which is fine, but I do believe that the public defender told the reporter that Tanko isn't a suspect. If KCPD and/or FBI were in November still intently looking at Tanko and hadn't "moved" on then it would be not following normal investigative procedure to leave the public defender in the dark. They would have to interview him and the public defender would have to know about that.

If you believe MW, a half dozen, eight, whatever crazy number of folks had access to the phone. I'm much more curious about the people who had access to the phone who have NOT been publicly named and their connection if any to DB and/or JI. I find it curious that we have no idea those people's identities and connections.

 

[DeAnn]

So we've really reached a dead in when the case is now a means to entertain at parties.

Sorry, I know that is not how the post was intended, but parlor game just rubbed me wrong. The problem is me. It is time for me to log off.

I don't see how the party conversation is any different from these forums. It is a fascinating case that rivets people because so many twists and turns and no 100 percent obvious conclusions. And a compelling victim that everyone hopes is safe and sound and well somewhere and found soon.

 

[In da Middle]

I know you don't believe it, which is fine, but I do believe that the public defender told the reporter that Tanko isn't a suspect. If KCPD and/or FBI were in November still intently looking at Tanko and hadn't "moved" on then it would be not following normal investigative procedure to leave the public defender in the dark. They would have to interview him and the public defender would have to know about that.

If you believe MW, a half dozen, eight, whatever crazy number of folks had access to the phone. I'm much more curious about the people who had access to the phone who have NOT been publicly named and their connection if any to DB and/or JI. I find it curious that we have no idea those people's identities and connections.

That too. I do also know that some of her facebook friends are directly linked to this neighborhood and that opens up a lot of possibilities to who else could have called her phone that would be within the 1/3 mile radius.

 

[highflyer]

I don't see how the party conversation is any different from these forums. It is a fascinating case that rivets people because so many twists and turns and no 100 percent obvious conclusions. And a compelling victim that everyone hopes is safe and sound and well somewhere and found soon.

I don't either. This case is truly interesting but struggle with a personal squirm factor being here. It is a private look into peoples lives, intrusive and uninvited. Can't see how talking about this at a party is different.

 

[Whisperer]

Using the exact same logic is not spinning nor twisting. It is simply applying logic.

Ref: Dog.gone.cute:

It is not the exact logic. It is logical to assume that if Jersey was in that house, undressing/dressing, abducting lisa, turning on all the lights and stealing three phones that he would have left DNA, prints or something behind. Jersey should be easy to rule out.

The parents can't be ruled out because their DNA is all over the place. It is not the same application of logic, not even close. Short of a confession, w/o a body, the parent/s can never by charged. JT could because there would be evidence of him in the house....unless he word sterile gloves.

.....I can hear it now, he wore sterile gloves and took off his shoes.

 

[DeAnn]

It is not the exact logic. It is logical to assume that if Jersey was in that house, undressing/dressing, abducting lisa, turning on all the lights and stealing three phones that he would have left DNA, prints or something behind. Jersey should be easy to rule out.

The parents can't be ruled out because their DNA is all over the place. It is not the same application of logic, not even close. Short of a confession, w/o a body, the parent/s can never by charged. JT could because there would be evidence of him in the house....unless he word sterile gloves.

.....I can hear it now, he wore sterile gloves and took off his shoes. :banghead;

Why can't they? Shon Pernice has been charged by same prosecutor in same county with first degree murder. Renee Pernice is still missing. No body. No confession but a trial scheduled for next year. Some KCPD detectives wanted Shon Pernice arrested sooner but prosecutor took 18 months to take to grand jury. Some say that's being methodical and deliberate to ensure a rock solid case.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Ref: Dog.gone.cute:

It is not the exact logic. It is logical to assume that if Jersey was in that house, undressing/dressing, abducting lisa, turning on all the lights and stealing three phones that he would have left DNA, prints or something behind. Jersey should be easy to rule out.

The parents can't be ruled out because their DNA is all over the place. It is not the same application of logic, not even close. Short of a confession, w/o a body, the parent/s can never by charged. JT could because there would be evidence of him in the house....unless he word sterile gloves.

.....I can hear it now, he wore sterile gloves and took off his shoes.

BBM: Exactly ... IF a BIG IF "Jersey" was in the house doing everything mentioned above, he would have left something behind -- a fingerprint, a "hair", a piece of a "fingernail" -- maybe "toenail" if he didn't have his shoes on ... lol ... something ...

And IMO, IF any of his prints, hairs, etc. were found, he is already in the "database" and there would have been a "match" and LE would have "hauled him in" and "proved" Jersey was in that house -- but I don't believe he was in that house ...

IMO ... Jersey is the "Roy Kronk" the Defense Team, DB, JI and their PI need to "shift" the blame and focus FROM the "parents" ...

:waitasec: Just wondering ... a "homeless man" would just happen to have some of those sterile gloves handy for "kidnapping" a baby ...

:waitasec: Oh ... maybe Jersey just happened to get his hands on one of those hazmat [sp] suits and wore the hazmat suit so he wouldn't leave any of his prints and DNA behind ... :waitasec:

MOO ...

 

[In da Middle]

Jersey was being sought by KCPD for questioning in this case before there was ever a defense team around, within HOURS of them being on the scene. If anybody was to blame for Jersey being brought up it was LE, not the parents, not their defense team because there was no defense team when he was brought up.

 

[hambirg]

I was at a Christmas party this weekend. The source close to law enforcement (LOL. I have my own source now and have an idea of how that works in this case) said Jersey wasn't involved. Period. Full stop. Do I believe this person? Yes. But can I say it's 100 percent certain? No.

But source close to law enforcement did say the parlor game at this year's Christmas parties in KC area is chatting about where baby Lisa is and who is responsible for her disappearance.

Thank you for this.

Jersey is definitely a tempting suspect and a creepy guy. But when LE first made the "we have moved on" from Jersey statement some of us here wondered if he had a verifiable alibi. . . on camera at one of the casinos all night, in the drunk tank or at the hospital. Now that we learn he was hit by a car and had a swollen knee, that hospital idea seems even more plausible.

I have tried to make the timeline and what we know fit with Jersey as the SODDI, but it just never seems to fit or make sense. I think somebody that apparently made his living stealing stuff from cars, would know something about stolen goods. I just can't see somebody like that using a stolen phone that he just took while kidnapping a baby and calling his ex gf, thereby implicating himself in a kidnapping.

I also think because he was picked up mid Oct (I think it was the 15th but am to tired to go check now. .lol) that he was surely questioned by LE. If he had anything to do with this, he would have been most motivated to make a plea and turn states witness. I think he would have sung like a canary. So, I'm still torn over whether he did have something to say. . .regarding the phones. But I don't think he knew anything about BL.

I also know that Jim Spellman has been trying to get to talk to him (and possibly every other reporter in KC) with no luck. LE is keeping him under tight raps. That would make sense. If this ever goes to trial, and the defense team has been spinning him as the perp, they would have to scramble after discovery and learning that he has an alibi.

All MOO

 

[Dr. Know?]

Jersey was being sought by KCPD for questioning in this case before there was ever a defense team around, within HOURS of them being on the scene. If anybody was to blame for Jersey being brought up it was LE, not the parents, not their defense team because there was no defense team when he was brought up.

Between the neighbors and possibly the Irwin/Bradley family, Jersey was being brought up from the start with probably good reason. What was the deal with the cigarette butts that DB collected or reported early on? What about the vehicle or gps stolen from their vehicle in August? I can't brush away that fingers were pointed at Jersey early on. Oh and his watering responsibility at a customer/friends house reported by a neighbor? I think all fingers were pointed at Jersey from the start.

Now why was there a call from DB's phone/or JI's to Jersey that night? I say he helped and more needs to come out. jmo right now with limited info. There has to be some connection. At least in my world that needs explained better so I won't go speculating more about DB or JI. It would behoove them to do so on that matter but doubt they or DB alone can explain the call to make sense in favor of protecting themselves. jmo

I guess it will be argued in court. argh!

 

[Elley Mae]

MOO ...

It is my opinion that "Jersey" was NOT involved with respect to the "disappearance" of Baby Lisa ...

Deborah, and Jeremy have wanted to "PIN" this "kidnapping" of their baby on someone .. and would have PINNED this on Jersey IF they COULD HAVE early on ... BUT they have NOT ...

:waitasec: So WHY have they NOT tried to PIN it on Jersey -- yet DB and JI, as well as their defense team and PI BS have tried to pin it on SODDI -- but yet they "fall short" of actually naming this SODDI as "Jersey" ...

DB and JI's defense attorneys and "pi" have been looking for a "KRONK" to blame this on since the beginning ...

And I believe IF LE "thought" that Jersey did "kidnap" Baby Lisa -- he would have been CHARGED with this by now ... and IMO, the investigation did NOT lead to Jersey ...

It led right back to DB ... and LE KNOWS who did it and who "helped" ... they just don't have the body and probably never will ...

Sorry -- I really did not want to say it so "blunt" but it is what it is ...

And the reason DB and JI have NOT "pinned" this on Jersey is because both DB and JI know there is NOTHING to indicate that Jersey was involved in "kidnapping" Baby Lisa ...

Seriously --- WHY would a "homeless man" kidnap a baby ?

LE has "Jersey's" fingerprints, and probably DNA on file ... so IF Jersey had been INSIDE of DB and JI's home, their would have been SOME kind of evidence and he would have been named ...


Of course, all above is Just My Opinion ...

Thank You

 

[cityslick]

I don't see how the party conversation is any different from these forums. It is a fascinating case that rivets people because so many twists and turns and no 100 percent obvious conclusions. And a compelling victim that everyone hopes is safe and sound and well somewhere and found soon.

I know you didn't mean anything by this, but this statement in general, particularly the words 'compelling victim' bothers me. It's the reason why hundreds of missing persons cases do not get a fraction of the attention that cases such as this do. What makes for a 'compelling victim'? What makes this victim more 'compelling' than the hundreds of other cases that happen every year?

 

[cityslick]

BBM: Exactly ... IF a BIG IF "Jersey" was in the house doing everything mentioned above, he would have left something behind -- a fingerprint, a "hair", a piece of a "fingernail" -- maybe "toenail" if he didn't have his shoes on ... lol ... something ...

And IMO, IF any of his prints, hairs, etc. were found, he is already in the "database" and there would have been a "match" and LE would have "hauled him in" and "proved" Jersey was in that house -- but I don't believe he was in that house ...

IMO ... Jersey is the "Roy Kronk" the Defense Team, DB, JI and their PI need to "shift" the blame and focus FROM the "parents" ...

:waitasec: Just wondering ... a "homeless man" would just happen to have some of those sterile gloves handy for "kidnapping" a baby ...

:waitasec: Oh ... maybe Jersey just happened to get his hands on one of those hazmat [sp] suits and wore the hazmat suit so he wouldn't leave any of his prints and DNA behind ... :waitasec:

MOO ...

Just curious, did John Couey leave DNA all over the place when he abducted Jessica Lunsford?

 

[natsound]

IMO ... Jersey is the "Roy Kronk" the Defense Team, DB, JI and their PI need to "shift" the blame and focus FROM the "parents" ...

:

respectfully snipped

This case needs a Roy Kronk, and needs one badly! Not a scapegoat, just someone who will philosophically tinkle in the woods. :snail:

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

I know you didn't mean anything by this, but this statement in general, particularly the words 'compelling victim' bothers me. It's the reason why hundreds of missing persons cases do not get a fraction of the attention that cases such as this do. What makes for a 'compelling victim'? What makes this victim more 'compelling' than the hundreds of other cases that happen every year?

JMO, I think, for this particular case the initial reason folks were drawn to it was the scenario is every parents worst nightmare, come true. Your baby kidnapped out of her crib in the middle of the night. Couple that with the fact that the victim is just a baby and it tears at one's heart. Most people want the perpetrator of this crime to be caught so they can feel safe in their homes again. Most people want the person responsible for this baby missing to be brought to justice. Most people want this baby brought home.

 

[Detective Klimpt]

If you believe MW, a half dozen, eight, whatever crazy number of folks had access to the phone. I'm much more curious about the people who had access to the phone who have NOT been publicly named and their connection if any to DB and/or JI. I find it curious that we have no idea those people's identities and connections.

Ron Rugen knows who they all are and I believe has spoken with them and does not think they are involved at all. There are two married couples, 2 kids, MW, and Dane. (may not be 100% accurate, but I think it can be confirmed). That incoming phone call from DB's phone to MW's phone was meant for MW.

Jersey may not be 'involved' in BL, but has he been cleared of involvement with the phones?

As InDaMiddle said, there are lots of locals that probably had MW's number, but who or how did they have access to DB's phone and why would they call her at midnight. I would think that most young people, no matter how poor they are, manage to get themselves a cell phone. They don't need to steal one from a house. Look, even MW is pretty much homeless herself, jobless, and living on food stamps, yet she has a cell phone with internet access.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Jersey was being sought by KCPD for questioning in this case before there was ever a defense team around, within HOURS of them being on the scene. If anybody was to blame for Jersey being brought up it was LE, not the parents, not their defense team because there was no defense team when he was brought up.

BBM: Within two days of Baby Lisa going missing, DB and JI submitted a "list of names" of people that the parents thought might have "MOTIVE" at the REQUEST OF Law Enforcement ...

It is also SOP for LE to ASK you if you had ANY disagreements, arguments, fights, etc. with ANYONE recently, in the past, etc.

Again ... just Standard Operating Procedure for LE to ASK if you had "problems" with anyone ...


There was a lot of a discussion on here regarding the "number" of names that were submitted to LE :

See this post from Thread # 3 , which states that JI provided LE with names of 9 people who could have taken the baby:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7194061&postcount=382"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MO - AMBER ALERT: Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #3[/ame]

The info regarding this "List of Names" is also included in the very helpful Timeline created by Shelby.


In My Opinion, it is "obvious" that Jersey's name was provided to LE by the parents ...

LE does not just show up at a "crime scene" and "pull names out of a hat" of individuals who have crmiinal records who MIGHT have "kidnapped" a baby ...

LE starts with the "family" then works it way "out" ...

IMO ... it is just VERY "convenient" that there happened to be a "homeless man" with a "criminal record" that includes "arson" -- the "dumpster fire" -- to "pin" this on to remove the FOCUS AWAY FROM the parents ...

All my Opinion and Sepeculation ...

:seeya:

 

[dog.gone.cute]

respectfully snipped

This case needs a Roy Kronk, and needs one badly! Not a scapegoat, just someone who will philosophically tinkle in the woods. :snail:

BBM: :floorlaugh: Yep ... good point !


O/T : WHO DAT ! It looks like the Saints are heading to the PlayOffs !

:great::great:

 

[natsound]

BBM: :floorlaugh: Yep ... good point !


O/T : WHO DAT ! It looks like the Saints are heading to the PlayOffs !

:great::great:

I am thrilled about the Saints! If anyone can topple Green Bay, they can!!

I hate that we have so little information on this case that we're reduced to arguing. I don't think there's anything we can say any more that hasn't already been said.

I hope everyone here has very happy holidays, and let's pray for this case to gain some momentum. :rocker: