JLM: Morgan Harrington/Fairfax Rape Victim - *Forensic Link* to MH #3

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Evie Ivy Over said:
Did they come out and say he's connected to the 2005 rape? I haven't seen that communication--I'm going to lose my mind if someone doesn't give me a link! (LOL!!)

As far as the sketch, I know there are conflicting opinions about how much JM looks like him. To me, JM's lips are much bigger...I think that's a distinctive feature that wasn't captured in the drawing.
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I find it interesting that they did not even know for certainty that the Fairfax perp was indeed African American until they made the connection between MH and the 2005 rape. Prior to that DNA confirmation they only had the victim testimony which is not very reliable given the trauma, it was dark, and she was attacked from behind. From my understanding, that link confirmed ancestry and allowed FBI to refine that sketch.

Here's that link; we don't want you going crazy!

http://www.readthehook.com/67132/morgans-killer-fairfax-case-connection-offers-hope-fresh-fear

http://www.c-ville.com/questions-re...-suspect-morgan-harrington-case/#.VEIAvvnF9nE (current info tying in JM)


From that first article:

A reporter shared the image with Bass (man who discovered MH) who says the man is not familiar to him.

If police are piqued by the expedited release of information, bereaved parents Dan and Gil Harrington say they're grateful that the connection they've known about for "some time" has finally been made available to members of the public, who might be able to help.

Many see it as a dead ringer for JM. Seems Bass would have noticed if he had seen JM near his property especially given how rural and inaccessible it is.
 
Conductor71 said:
I find it interesting that they did not even know for certainty that the Fairfax perp was indeed African American until they made the connection between MH and the 2005 rape. Prior to that DNA confirmation they only had the victim testimony which is not very reliable given the trauma, it was dark, and she was attacked from behind. From my understanding, that link confirmed ancestry and allowed FBI to refine that sketch.

Here's that link; we don't want you going crazy!

http://www.readthehook.com/67132/morgans-killer-fairfax-case-connection-offers-hope-fresh-fear


From that article:

A reporter shared the image with Bass (man who discovered MH) who says the man is not familiar to him.

If police are piqued by the expedited release of information, bereaved parents Dan and Gil Harrington say they're grateful that the connection they've known about for "some time" has finally been made available to members of the public, who might be able to help.

Many see it as a dead ringer for JM. Seems Bass would have noticed if he had seen JM near his property especially given how rural and inaccessible it is.
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Yeah but how would he have seen him? It was no where near this mans house. It was just his property. It was stated that college students partied on his property. He didn't know the college students and probably didn't know they partied on his property.
Edited to add that I have partied on many peoples property and they never knew we were there. I had a friend whos grandfather owned an apple orchid and we'd go back in the fields/woods and noone ever knew we were there, loud music and all.
 
Conductor71 said:
I find it interesting that they did not even know for certainty that the Fairfax perp was indeed African American until they made the connection between MH and the 2005 rape. Prior to that DNA confirmation they only had the victim testimony which is not very reliable given the trauma, it was dark, and she was attacked from behind. From my understanding, that link confirmed ancestry and allowed FBI to refine that sketch.

Here's that link; we don't want you going crazy!

http://www.readthehook.com/67132/morgans-killer-fairfax-case-connection-offers-hope-fresh-fear

http://www.c-ville.com/questions-re...-suspect-morgan-harrington-case/#.VEIAvvnF9nE (current info tying in JM)


From that first article:

A reporter shared the image with Bass (man who discovered MH) who says the man is not familiar to him.

If police are piqued by the expedited release of information, bereaved parents Dan and Gil Harrington say they're grateful that the connection they've known about for "some time" has finally been made available to members of the public, who might be able to help.

Many see it as a dead ringer for JM. Seems Bass would have noticed if he had seen JM near his property especially given how rural and inaccessible it is.
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Whew...I can cancel that psych appointment!! Thanks so much for taking the time to share the information you've found...such interesting stuff. It really helps to have these details, even though they tend to make things way more complicated.
 
Evie Ivy Over said:
Whew...I can cancel that psych appointment!! Thanks so much for taking the time to share the information you've found...such interesting stuff. It really helps to have these details, even though they tend to make things way more complicated.
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I guess this too answers some of our questions...
We will thoroughly assess any new information we may receive regarding this case,” the City of Fairfax Police Department announced in a news release. Details of the investigation and any related evidentiary information will not be disclosed at this time in order to protect the integrity of the investigation and any possible prosecution.”
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http://www.c-ville.com/questions-remain-police-link-hannah-graham-suspect-morgan-harrington-case/#.VEIPKslH85t
 
Evie Ivy Over said:
Sounds like a public relations statement that acknowledges the MH and the Fairfax Case? Doesn't say yes, doesn't say no, to any connection with JM.
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Agreed! I'm saying that's why they won't make the connection and say they are tied because of the investigation. I wasn't trying to say something it did not. (modsnip)
 
BBM

I have never seen that reported before. A far as I recall no ticket was ever recovered. I have also never seen it reported she left the area twice.


Conductor71 said:
Following is the most accurate up to date account of information on MH's disappearance released by VSP in 2011. It may prove helpful in comparing to HG.

MH timeline October 17, 2009

Attempted reentry and (apparently) bought another ticket to get back in.

She willingly left the arena twice for no known reason.
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Heroine said:
Yeah but how would he have seen him? It was no where near this mans house. It was just his property. It was stated that college students partied on his property. He didn't know the college students and probably didn't know they partied on his property.
Edited to add that I have partied on many peoples property and they never knew we were there. I had a friend whos grandfather owned an apple orchid and we'd go back in the fields/woods and noone ever knew we were there, loud music and all.
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True, but LE did show him the sketch, so I don't think distance between this remote parcel of his property and his house precluded him identifying JM or being shown the sketch in the first place.

If you read the details of MH's case, LE considers where her remains were found a major clue and insist that the perp would be known to people living in the area because of its unique terrain and barriers.
 
rossva said:
BBM

I have never seen that reported before. A far as I recall no ticket was ever recovered. I have also never seen it reported she left the area twice.
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I added apparently to qualify that as a possible interpretation of how she regained entry. Some details as reported are ambiguous and require we draw inferences.

Did you read the attached article? Do you see any other explanation of how she regained entry? She reportedly had a torn ticket, so maybe she glued it? It is possible to email the author to clear up any questions you may have.
 
Conductor71 said:
Following is the most accurate up to date account of information on MH's disappearance released by VSP in 2011. It may prove helpful in comparing to HG.

MH timeline October 17, 2009

8 pm - seen inside restroom tending to her bleeding chin. She likely fell. Offered assistance.
Went to gate to leave the building through the entrance doors facing Copeley. She was told about no re-entry policy; acknowledged the warning and left.
Witnessed dumping her purse for the first time and dropping her phone.
Attempted reentry and (apparently) bought another ticket to get back in.


Left the arena again for 10-15 minutes interacting with other concert goers. Offered assistance.
In front of arena, called to 44 yr old concert goer. Asked him to walk with her, and kicked him when he declined.

9 PM- she meets up with 2 groups of young men (one group from UVA basketball team).
Reported unsteady using cars to hold herself up.

Harrington requested a ride from them and was declined.
'
Two witnesses next saw her near portable toilets- she curtsied to them but did not flag down the car.

8:48-9:00 She talked with friends who tried to give her tips on reentering building through smoking area.
No further activity from her cell after this.

At around 9:23 she is seen hitchhiking on Copeley and at 9:30 gone


Interesting facts:

.

Her car is parked in a nearby lot. She was not stranded.

She willingly left the arena twice for no known reason.

Several people offered to help her and she declined each time.

Many witnesses interacted with MH, yet there is no trace of her on video surveillance.

Dogs traced her scent beyond Copeley road to Ivy Road to a store called "Food of All Nations". This is a full 10 days after concert.

Morgan was not reported missing until some 36 after concert.

Morgan seen walking with three guys on UVA campus by a woman who delivered newspapers at 3:45 am
Note:
Interesting her Pantera t-shirt was found on UVA campus a month after she is missing.

Sources:

http://www.readthehook.com/88650/hes-still-here-and-other-revelations-harrington-case

http://www.readthehook.com/67960/pantera-find-shirt-15th-street-was-morgan-harringtons
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BBM

First bold: just to clarify this, it has been established long ago that there was no smoking area outside the arena. Her friends were not aware of this, though, hence the advice. You had to re-enter the arena with a ticket in order to get to that smoking area. My point is that this should not be considered an option for her to re-enter. It simply did not exist. It is NOT a fact that MH had another way in to the arena through a smoking area.

Second bold: IIRC, her friends had her keys. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't her friends drive her car back that very night. It is NOT a fact that MH wasn't stranded. She was, in fact.

Third bold: That alleged sighting on the UVA campus was never verified to be MH. The description given could have fit any number of college girls. The style of dress was a popular look at that time for going out. It is NOT a fact that MH was seen on the UVA campus.
 
I've never been to a concert where you could buy a ticket during the concert.
I believe a concert like Metallica's would have been sold out ahead of time.
 
Quill said:
BBM

First bold: just to clarify this, it has been established long ago that there was no smoking area outside the arena. Her friends were not aware of this, though, hence the advice. You had to re-enter the arena with a ticket in order to get to that smoking area. My point is that this should not be considered an option for her to re-enter. It simply did not exist. It is NOT a fact that MH had another way in to the arena through a smoking area.
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I did not state that she could regain entry through there, rather just what it says about her friends offering advice on how to re-enter

Quill said:
Second bold: IIRC, her friends had her keys. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't her friends drive her car back that very night. It is NOT a fact that MH wasn't stranded. She was, in fact.
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She disappeared around 9:30. Please provide a source stating her friends took the car home prior to that time. She was not stranded at that time.

Quill said:
Third bold: That alleged sighting on the UVA campus was never verified to be MH. The description given could have fit any number of college girls. The style of dress was a popular look at that time for going out. It is NOT a fact that MH was seen on the UVA campus.
Click to expand...

As for witness sightings, it would be helpful to know how police establish witness validity or not. With it being readily reported, and LE not discrediting it as valid, it can be considered as factual as any assumption made of LJ, the condition of MH's remains, how and wear DNA was pulled, etc.

Did LE publicly discredit this sighting as invalid? Your argument on its own that she was not distinctive enough could also apply to seeing her walking on a dark road (in absence of tracking dogs)

How does LE account for the full 36 hours before she was considered missing?
 
Conductor71 said:
Attempted reentry and (apparently) bought another ticket to get back in.
Click to expand...

Did you get that from your linked source? Because it doesn't say she bought another ticket but rather

"She said, 'It's in pieces in my purse,'" says Cappuzzo, who says the ticket taker stopped her when it appeared she planned to dump the contents of her purse again. Told she'd need to purchase another ticket if she wanted to return, Morgan left the Arena a second time and remained in the immediate area for as long as 10 or 15 minutes, interacting with various concertgoers–- several of whom offered her assistance, which she again declined.
 
Emaa said:
Did you get that from your linked source? Because it doesn't say she bought another ticket but rather

"She said, 'It's in pieces in my purse,'" says Cappuzzo, who says the ticket taker stopped her when it appeared she planned to dump the contents of her purse again. Told she'd need to purchase another ticket if she wanted to return, Morgan left the Arena a second time and remained in the immediate area for as long as 10 or 15 minutes, interacting with various concertgoers–- several of whom offered her assistance, which she again declined.
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Ughhhh. So sad. She probably declined their help, thinking a taxi was more safe :(
 
I'm new to this site and wanted to post a few thoughts/questions
After the link between MH and the rape was discovered, were the taxi drivers (including JM) re-interviewed by detectives? I think there is definitely a resemblance between JM and those sketches (and it seems as if friends/family thought so too). How did the police find JM's old taxi? Had it been sold and they traced the registrations?

This comment probably belongs in a different thread, but...If evidence links Jesse to MH and the 2005 rape, he should know his goose is cooked. I was hoping he would confess and show them where Hannah is in a plea bargain. But I'm thinking he won't because 1) there are people in his life for whom he wants/needs to remain the "gentle giant" so when he is convicted they can still believe he is innocent or 2) he has a history of dissociative episodes when he doesn't really recall his actions (this is common in violent criminals with a history of being the victim of abuse themselves and/or have brain damage from that abuse, or possibly in JMs case any concussions/brain damage he suffered in his sports) or 3) he is a sociopath. I'd be interested in learning more about his whole life history beyond his lawyers statement that he comes from a good family of hard-workers (which doesn't mean his childhood wasn't a wreck). I think JM is guilty and needs to be removed from society for life and nothing from his past should mitigate his guilt or change his punishment. I'm just interested in serial killer psychology.
 
SallyWolff said:
I'm new to this site and wanted to post a few thoughts/questions
After the link between MH and the rape was discovered, were the taxi drivers (including JM) re-interviewed by detectives? I think there is definitely a resemblance between JM and those sketches (and it seems as if friends/family thought so too). How did the police find JM's old taxi? Had it been sold and they traced the registrations?

This comment probably belongs in a different thread, but...If evidence links Jesse to MH and the 2005 rape, he should know his goose is cooked. I was hoping he would confess and show them where Hannah is in a plea bargain. But I'm thinking he won't because 1) there are people in his life for whom he wants/needs to remain the "gentle giant" so when he is convicted they can still believe he is innocent or 2) he has a history of dissociative episodes when he doesn't really recall his actions (this is common in violent criminals with a history of being the victim of abuse themselves and/or have brain damage from that abuse, or possibly in JMs case any concussions/brain damage he suffered in his sports) or 3) he is a sociopath. I'd be interested in learning more about his whole life history beyond his lawyers statement that he comes from a good family of hard-workers (which doesn't mean his childhood wasn't a wreck). I think JM is guilty and needs to be removed from society for life and nothing from his past should mitigate his guilt or change his punishment. I'm just interested in serial killer psychology.
Click to expand...

I actually asked the question "Does he have Dissociative Identity Disorder?" in another post, I think in the Search #3 thread, not that I expected anyone here to answer it, but just as a point to think about. I've been thinking about this a lot over the last few days, wondering if he "loses time" as some split-personalities have been said to do, wondering if he perhaps really doesn't know what happened and doesn't consciously know where Hannah is, at least not until that switch flips again and his alter-ego surfaces.

Just something I've pondered, no basis in fact that I've read anywhere, but perhaps one potential explanation as to how this guy came across so convincingly as one kind of persona most of the time, but apparently is so capable of being someone entirely different at other times.

And yes, it probably does belong in the "What Do We Know" thread, but I don't know how I could reply to it there, when your original post is here, and not have the reply make people shake their heads and go, "What?"
 
Conductor71 said:
I did not state that she could regain entry through there, rather just what it says about her friends offering advice on how to re-enter



She disappeared around 9:30. Please provide a source stating her friends took the car home prior to that time. She was not stranded at that time.



As for witness sightings, it would be helpful to know how police establish witness validity or not. With it being readily reported, and LE not discrediting it as valid, it can be considered as factual as any assumption made of LJ, the condition of MH's remains, how and wear DNA was pulled, etc.

Did LE publicly discredit this sighting as invalid? Your argument on its own that she was not distinctive enough could also apply to seeing her walking on a dark road (in absence of tracking dogs)

How does LE account for the full 36 hours before she was considered missing?
Click to expand...

I would consider MH to be stranded. She was outside the arena and did not gain re-entry. She had a car in the parking lot but she had no keys. Her friends in the arena had the keys.
Why, many have asked, wouldn't Morgan have gone to her own car– which Cappuzzo says was parked in the lot between Emmett Street and U-Hall? As previously reported, one of the three friends who accompanied Morgan on their trip from Harrisonburg to Charlottesville was serving as designated driver that night, and as a result was holding on to her keys.
Click to expand...
http://www.readthehook.com/88650/hes-still-here-and-other-revelations-harrington-case

As far as the witness who reported seeing MH on campus at UVA, her supposed sighting of MH could never be confirmed nor denied. However, the sightings that were reported around the arena and the bridge were much closer to the vicinity in which she was last known to be in. In other words, some things simply make more sense than others.
 
jbowman55 said:
I actually asked the question "Does he have Dissociative Identity Disorder?" in another post, I think in the Search #3 thread, not that I expected anyone here to answer it, but just as a point to think about. I've been thinking about this a lot over the last few days, wondering if he "loses time" as some split-personalities have been said to do, wondering if he perhaps really doesn't know what happened and doesn't consciously know where Hannah is, at least not until that switch flips again and his alter-ego surfaces.

Just something I've pondered, no basis in fact that I've read anywhere, but perhaps one potential explanation as to how this guy came across so convincingly as one kind of persona most of the time, but apparently is so capable of being someone entirely different at other times.

And yes, it probably does belong in the "What Do We Know" thread, but I don't know how I could reply to it there, when your original post is here, and not have the reply make people shake their heads and go, "What?"
Click to expand...

That was mentioned way early on, too, particularly given his seeming "change" in behavior during the lawyer incident. Added to it recently, his landlady describing "the nice Jesse."

DID (commonly known as split personality or multiple personalities) is rare, no doubt, but so are serial killers. It certainly doesn't excuse his behavior or make him any less guilty or any safer to be in society, but would be one explanation that perhaps would allow his friends and family to cope and heal better. It is often presumed to be triggered by severe repeated childhood trauma. http://www.aamft.org/iMIS15/AAMFT/Content/consumer_updates/Dissociative_identity_disorder.aspx

ETA: Adding to the "What do we know about him" thread as it more aptly belongs there.
 
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