JLM: Psych Thread - Professional and Non-Professional Opinions/Theories

[bessie]

I see a whole lot of "facts" being tossed about without sources to back them up. Link up, people!

 

[SolverGameChanger]

Agree...someone with autism/Asperger's is more likely to have difficulty forming close relationships,etc. JM seems to be very much he opposite. I don't know if there is an "ism" for this characteristic or not...unless it's narcissism.

There are plenty of behaviors that JM has shown over time that I am sure family and close friends knew were problems of JM's. That he could not keep his car legal That his car looked like a dumpster. That he could get too rough and hurt people during horse play. That he ignored the "no" when going for sex. That he came on too strong when trying to pick up women. Some of that would have seeped through to those who knew him. Landlady indicates rent didn't always get paid, in fact, I think he owed when he left. A "wink, wink" on fares for young women when he was a cabby. Oh, I'm sure the problems now, a long with the problems as a kid, as a college student were there for those close to him to know.

But there are a lot of people with those problems. Those who go too far, are careless, impulsive, but they would not kill someone deliberately like JM did. That Fairfax rape is to me a straight out picture of an evil, evil person. No, it's not the situation or the person that gets him to kill; he looks for the situation to kill, rape. That, I don't think those who liked him, were close to him, suspected one bit.

There are a couple of references discussing how autism or Aspergers is related to similar cases.

A defendant in a rape and murder case:
http://www.sociopathworld.com/2011/05/aspergers-as-insanity-defense.html

and a good reference highlighting cases in where violent offenders are later diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder

http://www.currentpsychiatry.com/ho...fiction/11f5bce386af9de90e9d650ae9b2abe2.html

Within this page are highlighted a few key characteristics when evaluating an adult that has violent behavior and is suspected to exhibit psychotic traits

Although autism is a childhood-onset disorder, its symptoms persist across the life span. If the diagnosis is missed in childhood, which is likely to happen if the person has normal intelligence and relatively good verbal skills, he (she) might come to medical attention for the first time as an adult.


What clues help identify underlying ASD/AD when a patient is referred to you for psychiatric evaluation after allegedly committing a violent crime?

Clue #1. He makes no attempt to deny or conceal the act. The behavior appears to be part of ritualistic behavior or excessive interest.

Often, the alleged crime occurs when the patient’s excessive interests “get out of control,” perhaps because of an external event.

Clue #2. He appears to lack sound and prudent judgment despite normal intelligence.

Although most patients with ASD score in the intellectually disabled or mentally retarded range, at least one-third have an IQ in the normal range. 9 Examine school records and reports from other agencies when evaluating a patient. Pay attention to a history of difficulty relating to peers at an early age, combined with evidence of rigid, restricted fixations and interests.
It is important to obtain a reliable history going back to early childhood, and not rely just on the patient’s mental status; presenting symptoms might mask underlying traits of ASD, especially in higher-functioning adults. (I once cared for a young man with ASD who had been fired a few days after landing his first job selling used cars because he was “sexually harassing” his colleagues. When questioned, he said that he was only trying to be “friendly” and “practicing his social skills.”)

Clue #3. He has been given a diagnosis of schizophrenia without a clear history of hallucinations or delusions.

In patients whose cognitive and verbal skills are relatively well preserved (such as AD), the presence of intense, focused interests, a pedantic manner of speaking, and abnormalities of nonverbal communication can help clarify the diagnosis. In particular, a recorded history of “childhood schizophrenia” or “obsessive-compulsive behavior” going back to preschool years should alert you to possible ASD.

The article goes on to reference related resources:

Autism Speaks. No link between autism and violence. www.autismspeaks.org/science/science-news/no-link-between-autism-and-violence.

Haskins BG, Silva JA. Asperger’s disorder and criminal behavior: Forensic-psychiatric considerations. J Am Acad Psychiatry Law. 2006;34(3):374-384.

Newman SS, Ghaziuddin M. Violent crime and Asperger syndrome: the role of psychiatric comorbidity. J Autism Dev Disord. 2008;38:1848-1852.

Wing L. Asperger’s syndrome: a clinical account. Psychol Med. 1981;11(1):115-129.

 

[SolverGameChanger]

So, just as I posted the reference to Autistic Spectrum Disorder I am reminded that JLM had made attempts to conceal his act. So, an argument that ASD is not a factor could be made.

My original post about a genetic factor inherited by the parents had referenced Autism as an example of how traits can be inherited.

There are other characteristics of JLM that can support an evaluation for something approximate to ASD and violent behavior.

What are your thoughts ?

 

[Concerned Mama]

So, just as I posted the reference to Autistic Spectrum Disorder I am reminded that JLM had made attempts to conceal his act. So, an argument that ASD is not a factor could be made.

My original post about a genetic factor inherited by the parents had referenced Autism as an example of how traits can be inherited.

There are other characteristics of JLM that can support an evaluation for something approximate to ASD and violent behavior.

What are your thoughts ?

Honestly, I think this is too slippery of a slope to go down. I've taught high-functioning children on the autistic spectrum for years, and no two children present the same way. In IEP conferences, one thing that always is apparent is that there's no such thing as a "typical" behavior for a kid on the ASD, with most of the children having seen a slew of specialists over the years with no clear agreement on medical diagnoses.

For a group of members who are not licensed psychiatrists or psychologists to speculate on such a complicated range of disorders for a person whom none of us has met (except PaulaP) will probably, at best, end up offending many members of the forum. As the end of the article you linked to in Current Psychiatry states: Bottom Line is that most people with AD/ASD do not commit violent crimes.

jmo

 

[ThinkHard]

So, just as I posted the reference to Autistic Spectrum Disorder I am reminded that JLM had made attempts to conceal his act. So, an argument that ASD is not a factor could be made.

My original post about a genetic factor inherited by the parents had referenced Autism as an example of how traits can be inherited.

There are other characteristics of JLM that can support an evaluation for something approximate to ASD and violent behavior.

What are your thoughts ?

People with autism usually have a VERY VERY strong moral compass...it might not be the socially prescribed one....but its usually deeply seeded, internal, and leads with a strong sense of fairness and justice, just presented awkwardly. Aggression in autism is usually more likened to an adult temper tantrum....over stressed, overwhelmed because the senses tend to be heightened, and they have an melt down. Just because an autistic doesn't easily relate to people, does not mean they wish to harm people.

JLM might have a social disorder, he might have a neurological disorder, there may even be an overlap of symptoms with autism...but I do not believe JLM has autism or any form of it.

 

[Concerned Mama]

One "diagnosis," if you will, that we all probably agree on is that JLM is a serial rapist. LU incident, CNU incident, Fairfax incident, . . . . We don't even need to follow his actions to Morgan and Hannah to reach this conclusion.

In looking for information on the subject, I did run across this rather old report (February 1990) that sums up FBI interviews with 41 convicted serial rapists during the mid-1980s:

The Criminal Behavior of the Serial Rapist by Robert R. Hazelwood, Special Agent, Behavioral Science Instruction/Research Unit and Janet Warren, D.S.W., Institute of Psychiatry and Law, University of Virginia.

One of the things I found most interesting in the study was that the method of approach of these serial rapists was defined as either "the con," "the blitz," or "the surprise."

"the con" - With this technique, the rapist openly approaches the victim and requests or offers some type of assistance or direction. However, once the victim is within his control, the offender may suddenly become more aggressive.

"the blitz" - In a blitz approach, the rapist uses a direct, injurious physical assault which subdues and physically injures the victim. The attacker may also use chemicals or gases but most frequently makes use of his ability to physically overpower a woman. . . . Even though it is used less often than the con approach, the blitz approach results in more extensive physical injury and inhibits certain fantasy components of the rape that may be arousing to the rapist.

"the surprise" - The surprise approach, which involves the assailant waiting for the victim or approaching her after she is sleeping, presupposes that the rapist has targeted or preselected his victim through unobserved contact and knowledge of when the victim would be alone. Threats and/or the presence of a weapon are often associated with this type of approach; however, there is no actual injurious force applied.

The Fairfax attack appears to be a definite "blitz" approach, but I'd suspect that Morgan and Hannah were fooled into thinking JLM was assisting them through a "con" approach.

I'd recommend giving it a read, if you're interested. Actually, I'd be willing to guess this article has been linked to in this forum previously. However, I'm not going to weed through all of the posts to double check (sorry!).

Most interesting were the conclusions listed at the end, listing the overall findings about serial rapists from their extensive interviews with the 41 men:

The research concerning serial rapists' behavior during and following the commission of the crimes has determined that:

* The majority of the rapes were premeditated

* The "con'' approach was used most often in initiating contact with the victim

* A threatening presence and verbal threats were used to maintain control over the victim

* Minimal or no force was used in the majority of instances

* The victims physically, passively or verbally resisted the rapists in slightly over 50% of the offenses

* The most common offender reaction to resistance was to verbally threaten the victim

* Slightly over one-third of the offenders experienced a sexual dysfunction, and the preferred sexual acts were vaginal rape and forced fellatio

* Low levels of pleasure were reported by the rapists from the sexual acts

* The rapists tended not to be concerned with precautionary measures to protect their identities

* Approximately one-third of the rapists had consumed alcohol prior to the crime and slightly less reported using some other drug.

The most common post-offense behavior reported by the rapists were feelings of remorse and guilt, following the case in the media and an increase in alcohol and drug consumption.

These characteristics, although not generally applicable to every rapist, can be helpful in learning more about offenders, their behaviors and the heinous crime of rape.

bbm

 

[Concerned Mama]

In a different thread, member mysterious minds posted a "long shot" theory that really rang true of what a "con" approach could have been that night:

The Sal's video has been strange to me on several counts already discussed here but it's also bothered me how JM is walking and doesn't even seem to turn his head her direction yet somehow seconds later is following her. Did he "eye" her walking towards him before the area that the video catches? He doesn't miss a beat.
And then it just dawned on me that possibly he somehow picked up on white guy's actions (although it's not apparent anywhere on video) and positioned himself as "protecting" HG from the WG. Maybe that's how he was able to get his arm around her so fast. "Hey, I just noticed this guy watching you. Stick with me." And then it would seem even more convincing considering WG DOES keep following them. Maybe JM looked like a real saint at that moment and she started to let her guard down with him. He buys her drink, promises to get her home safe, etc. ESPECIALLY if her phone battery was dying/dead.

Actually, this would make so much sense, even if WG wasn't even in the scenario. Wasn't there also a group of guys behind her? Heck, there wouldn't have to be ANYBODY behind her for this line to have worked.

I'm not saying Eureka! This is how he did it! but it really is a plausible theory.

 

[KellyinNC]

Hi WSers! My first post but longtime lurker! followed MH case closely here, and now HG, may she rest in peace. I ran across this case in my research of a man, last name Matthew in Cville, accused of rape but apparently exonerated. Could this be a relative? And could he be someone JLM modeled after? http://justicedenied.org/issue/issue_31/malaysia_jd31.pdf
Also, as the mom of an Aspie age 7, I've done extensive research into developmental and behavioral analysis of autism spectrum kids, and as an RN who has dealt with many mentally/developmentally challenged folks who were integrated into long term care/ assisted living here in NC in the late 1990s with the closing of Dorothea Dix hospital, I have never experienced violence from, either my son (excepting the usual tantrums normal to a 7 year old) or a patient on the spectrum. I have been hit, spit on, had bodily fluids thrown at me, been bitten, cursed at, threatened with "murder" specifically, by various other diagnosis, however, from Schizoaffective Disorder to full blown paranoid schizophrenia. Just a thank you to Concerned Mama, you're correct, it's a really REALLY slippery slope. Mental illness isn't necessarily indicative of ASD. And in order to do the things JLM has presumably done, he has to have some degree of mental instability, not insanity, but instability. It's obvious his deck isn't full, or he wouldn't be playing his cards this way~~

 

[ThinkHard]

Honestly, I think this is too slippery of a slope to go down. I've taught high-functioning children on the autistic spectrum for years, and no two children present the same way. In IEP conferences, one thing that always is apparent is that there's no such thing as a "typical" behavior for a kid on the ASD, with most of the children having seen a slew of specialists over the years with no clear agreement on medical diagnoses.

For a group of members who are not licensed psychiatrists or psychologists to speculate on such a complicated range of disorders for a person whom none of us has met (except PaulaP) will probably, at best, end up offending many members of the forum. As the end of the article you linked to in Current Psychiatry states: Bottom Line is that most people with AD/ASD do not commit violent crimes.

jmo

Well I have ASD, and I have met him, though I didn't "know" him.

I respect your opinion, and I do appreciate you being thoughtful of not wanting to offend anyone. But this is a board to for both professional and non professional opinions on the psychology of JLM. So its hard to talk about that,if people can't freely talk about disorders listed in the DSMV. That is after all the title of this board.

But I will say I did see things written that where inaccurate and misleading maybe regarding autism. So though I think we should be allowed to discuss, I hope its an opportunity for us all to learn truths rather then stereotypes. If we stay mum, we keep our stereotypes and delay learning. If we all agree to be civil, open minded, and willing to admit when we don't really know about something it could be a good thing and a great learning opportunity!

 

[ThinkHard]

Hi WSers! My first post but longtime lurker! followed MH case closely here, and now HG, may she rest in peace. I ran across this case in my research of a man, last name Matthew in Cville, accused of rape but apparently exonerated. Could this be a relative? And could he be someone JLM modeled after? http://justicedenied.org/issue/issue_31/malaysia_jd31.pdf
Also, as the mom of an Aspie age 7, I've done extensive research into developmental and behavioral analysis of autism spectrum kids, and as an RN who has dealt with many mentally/developmentally challenged folks who were integrated into long term care/ assisted living here in NC in the late 1990s with the closing of Dorothea Dix hospital, I have never experienced violence from, either my son (excepting the usual tantrums normal to a 7 year old) or a patient on the spectrum. I have been hit, spit on, had bodily fluids thrown at me, been bitten, cursed at, threatened with "murder" specifically, by various other diagnosis, however, from Schizoaffective Disorder to full blown paranoid schizophrenia. Just a thank you to Concerned Mama, you're correct, it's a really REALLY slippery slope. Mental illness isn't necessarily indicative of ASD. And in order to do the things JLM has presumably done, he has to have some degree of mental instability, not insanity, but instability. It's obvious his deck isn't full, or he wouldn't be playing his cards this way~~

I think you said it perfectly...he has an "instability" not an "insanity"!

This is what I have been trying to word together on several posts explaining why I didn't think he was a psychopath....but more working on impulses...

You have said it perfectly with these two words!

 

[SolverGameChanger]

People with autism usually have a VERY VERY strong moral compass...it might not be the socially prescribed one....but its usually deeply seeded, internal, and leads with a strong sense of fairness and justice, just presented awkwardly. Aggression in autism is usually more likened to an adult temper tantrum....over stressed, overwhelmed because the senses tend to be heightened, and they have an melt down. Just because an autistic doesn't easily relate to people, does not mean they wish to harm people.

JLM might have a social disorder, he might have a neurological disorder, there may even be an overlap of symptoms with autism...but I do not believe JLM has autism or any form of it.

I agree, that is the popular view. However, I have provided the links that discusses the other aspects . My original question is how is pschopathy manifested in an individual. Autism is inherited through traits handed down by parents. As well, I suspect pschopathy is inherited through traits from the parents. I then extended that thought to Google Search (GS) autism and violent behavior and found something more indepth related to criminal behavior including rape and murder.

The reading is quite easy to take in and so I recommend a more indepth GS of terms related to pschopathy and autism to learn more about how someone like Jesse could appear functional, with educational deficiencies, lack boundaries, demonstrate impulsiveness, and not know when to stop, etc and still have a teddy bear description by his friends.

Yes, their appears to be calculated behaviors, there can be knowledge of good and bad, but we are missing the information about where things break down in his behavior. The behavior that becomes obsessive and repetitive and even how that combines with consumption of alcohol.

Another opportunity to perform GS on the terms pychopathy, alcohol, autism and see what information highlights.

I would like to know what you find.

 

[SolverGameChanger]

People with autism usually have a VERY VERY strong moral compass...it might not be the socially prescribed one....but its usually deeply seeded, internal, and leads with a strong sense of fairness and justice, just presented awkwardly. Aggression in autism is usually more likened to an adult temper tantrum....over stressed, overwhelmed because the senses tend to be heightened, and they have an melt down. Just because an autistic doesn't easily relate to people, does not mean they wish to harm people.

JLM might have a social disorder, he might have a neurological disorder, there may even be an overlap of symptoms with autism...but I do not believe JLM has autism or any form of it.

I agree, that is the popular view. However, I have provided the links that discusses the other aspects . My original question is how is pschopathy manifested in an individual. Autism is inherited through traits handed down by parents. As well, I suspect pschopathy is inherited through traits from the parents. I then extended that thought to Google Search (GS) autism and violent behavior and found something more indepth related to criminal behavior including rape and murder.

The reading is quite easy to take in and so I recommend a more indepth GS of terms related to pschopathy and autism to learn more about how someone like Jesse could appear functional, with educational deficiencies, lack boundaries, demonstrate impulsiveness, and not know when to stop, etc and still have a teddy bear description by his friends.

Yes, their appears to be calculated behaviors, there can be knowledge of good and bad, but we are missing the information about where things break down in his behavior. The behavior that becomes obsessive and repetitive and even how that combines with consumption of alcohol.

Another opportunity to perform GS on the terms pychopathy, alcohol, autism and see what information highlights.

I would like to know what you find.

 

[PricklyPear]

There are plenty of behaviors that JM has shown over time that I am sure family and close friends knew were problems of JM's. That he could not keep his car legal That his car looked like a dumpster. That he could get too rough and hurt people during horse play. That he ignored the "no" when going for sex. That he came on too strong when trying to pick up women. Some of that would have seeped through to those who knew him. Landlady indicates rent didn't always get paid, in fact, I think he owed when he left. A "wink, wink" on fares for young women when he was a cabby. Oh, I'm sure the problems now, a long with the problems as a kid, as a college student were there for those close to him to know.

But there are a lot of people with those problems. Those who go too far, are careless, impulsive, but they would not kill someone deliberately like JM did. That Fairfax rape is to me a straight out picture of an evil, evil person. No, it's not the situation or the person that gets him to kill; he looks for the situation to kill, rape. That, I don't think those who liked him, were close to him, suspected one bit.

This is another of the things that make me think he has at least some psychopathic tendencies. If you look at serial killers, almost none of them can keep a steady job for more than a year or two, even cases of like Ted Bundy, who fooled everyone into thinking he was responsible. A lot of them are very irresponsible with their money, because they see no problem with stealing if they run out. In my opinion, JLM fits those traits — he went to multiple colleges, has had at least two jobs that we know of (I think three, actually, but I can't remember the third), was irresponsible with rent.

Additionally, when you look at serial killers, so many of them say they feel like there are two people within them — Ted Bundy, Israel Keyes and a few others have outright said that they feel that way. (At least one non-violent sociopath has said that, too; M.E. Thomas has a blog and wrote a book, and I have seen her write about her "rage" almost as if it's a separate being.)

As far as the cab incident, maybe he actually did feel guilt there. But that doesn't mean he's capable of empathy. Ann Rule describes Ted Bundy as someone who (she thought, at least) looked out for her well-being when they worked nights at a suicide crisis hotline together, and when he confessed to his murders he told his mother that it had nothing to do with her or how she raised him, seemingly in an attempt to make her feel better. He had a girlfriend who trusted him to the point of marrying him while he was in court on multiple, brutal murder counts because she didn't think he could do it. But if you read about his conversations with law enforcement and psychiatic professionals, he was very clearly a textbook psychopath, no doubt whatsoever. Maybe he had a couple of people that, after long association, he was able to think of them as human. Maybe he just got really, really good at mimicking compassion without actually feeling it in some instances.

I think it's entirely possible to be a killer without being a psychopath. But in my opinion, to be a serial killer, unless someone is completely, violently schizophrenic, they have to "default" to thinking of people as objects, and compassion for others is a very rare exception. I simply can't see anyone with an ounce of empathy for strangers being able to rack up a body count, especially with something as "up close and personal" as strangulation.

If JLM does prove to be a serial killer — and it definitely looks suspicious IMO — I just don't think he's going to be an exception to that. He may have a few people he cares about — even some of the most cold-blooded killers like Leonard Lake and Charles Ng seemed to have some sort of concern for each other — but I doubt he has any sort of feeling toward the majority of humanity or at least women in general. As for the assault, it was in public. Whether he knew he could get swabbed for DNA or not, he DEFINITELY knew he could go to jail, get sued, lose his job, or any combination of those. Maybe he felt some remorse, but I doubt it. A shift that incredibly quick points more to him getting his rage under control after realizing he's in a public place and there could be consequences he didn't want to deal with, IMO.

 

[PricklyPear]

I agree, that is the popular view. However, I have provided the links that discusses the other aspects . My original question is how is pschopathy manifested in an individual. Autism is inherited through traits handed down by parents. As well, I suspect pschopathy is inherited through traits from the parents. I then extended that thought to Google Search (GS) autism and violent behavior and found something more indepth related to criminal behavior including rape and murder. <snipped>

There are quite a few studies that show that psychopathy is probably inherited, and may be similar to autism spectrum disorders, but in the other extreme. I've seen it described as psychopathy is a recognition of the emotions of others with a lack of compassion, whereas ASD (autism spectrum disorders) are a lack of recognition of the emotions of others but with plenty of compassion.

This link has a good breakdown: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/shadow-boxing/201402/aspergers-disorder-vs-psychopathy Violence is no more prevalent among people with ASD than the neurotypical population, and it tends to be much less calculated and more impulsive than psychopathic violence. And many of the cases of violence among people with ASD was linked to another psychiatric disorder which DOES often manifest in violence.

But there is some interesting info about the genetics and anatomy of psychopathy out there. This guy writes a lot about the neurology of psychopathy, after he was studying the disorder and found his brain scans indicated he was a psychopath: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/scien...covered-he-was-a-psychopath-180947814/?no-ist I believe he and some other neurologists are beginning to look at psychopathy as a neuropsychiatric disorder rather than a pure psychiatric disorder (schizophrenia, too, I think).

ETA: Another good link on psychopathy: http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/tick/psych_6.html

 

[Ollie]

Thinking about JM's foot fetish,so I've been reading about it.For some people the foot causes sexual arousal. The comments made by the 2 women earlier in the evening about JM wanting to see their feet etc;made me wonder .If they got angry when he touched their feet ;could this have triggered his rage that night. I feel there is a good chance he keeps the victims shoes ,where he can look at them(like trophies). The question of course is where that might be. It would be a strong tie to other victims . thoughts?

 

[Concerned Mama]

There are quite a few studies that show that psychopathy is probably inherited, and may be similar to autism spectrum disorders, but in the other extreme. I've seen it described as psychopathy is a recognition of the emotions of others with a lack of compassion, whereas ASD (autism spectrum disorders) are a lack of recognition of the emotions of others but with plenty of compassion.

This link has a good breakdown: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/shadow-boxing/201402/aspergers-disorder-vs-psychopathy Violence is no more prevalent among people with ASD than the neurotypical population, and it tends to be much less calculated and more impulsive than psychopathic violence. And many of the cases of violence among people with ASD was linked to another psychiatric disorder which DOES often manifest in violence.

But there is some interesting info about the genetics and anatomy of psychopathy out there. This guy writes a lot about the neurology of psychopathy, after he was studying the disorder and found his brain scans indicated he was a psychopath: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/scien...covered-he-was-a-psychopath-180947814/?no-ist I believe he and some other neurologists are beginning to look at psychopathy as a neuropsychiatric disorder rather than a pure psychiatric disorder (schizophrenia, too, I think).

ETA: Another good link on psychopathy: http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/tick/psych_6.html

First, thank you for the link to the Psychology Today article. Clear and to the point.

Secondly, I remember reading about James Fallon's discovery about himself and about his subsequent book, The Psychopath Inside. If I came away with anything from reading about Dr. Fallon, it was that our biology does not have to determine who we are and what we do. It's only part of the equation. Even Fallon, who was previously a "genetic determinist" has come to theorize that people who may have different neurological wiring do not have predetermined outcomes. Having a "positive (or negative) childhood is especially pivotal in determining behavioral outcomes." And of course, the third factor to consider in this complex equation: free will.

I would add that Fallon also possesses one more valuable trait that most psychopaths aren't privy to: an incredible amount of self awareness and education on the subject. For example: &#8220;I&#8217;m obnoxiously competitive. I won&#8217;t let my grandchildren win games. I&#8217;m kind of an *******, and I do jerky things that piss people off,&#8221; he says. &#8220;But while I&#8217;m aggressive, but my aggression is sublimated. I&#8217;d rather beat someone in an argument than beat them up.&#8221;

 

[chipmunk]

Thinking about JM's foot fetish,so I've been reading about it.For some people the foot causes sexual arousal. The comments made by the 2 women earlier in the evening about JM wanting to see their feet etc;made me wonder .If they got angry when he touched their feet ;could this have triggered his rage that night. I feel there is a good chance he keeps the victims shoes ,where he can look at them(like trophies). The question of course is where that might be. It would be a strong tie to other victims . thoughts?

I was thinking the same thing, especially MH's boots. I didn't follow the RAT case very much but checked the thread Possible Links...RAT and JM? Another WSleuther told me about some SM anonymous entries and I followed up & found something about toes/feet. I don't believe JM had involvement in RAT crimes. But just for curiosity's sake take a look at that thread, post #45 I wrote. JM might have written something about toes, or it could just be anyone. A kind of unusual thing to write about.

 

[ThinkHard]

Thinking about JM's foot fetish,so I've been reading about it.For some people the foot causes sexual arousal. The comments made by the 2 women earlier in the evening about JM wanting to see their feet etc;made me wonder .If they got angry when he touched their feet ;could this have triggered his rage that night. I feel there is a good chance he keeps the victims shoes ,where he can look at them(like trophies). The question of course is where that might be. It would be a strong tie to other victims . thoughts?

Though I'm not discounting he may have a foot fetish...I do find it hard to believe that two women not letting him touch their feet would send him into a murderous rage. A fetish might be part of his profile, but I do not think it is related to what causes his rage.

 

[ILOKAL]

I was thinking the same thing, especially MH's boots. I didn't follow the RAT case very much but checked the thread Possible Links...RAT and JM? Another WSleuther told me about some SM anonymous entries and I followed up & found something about toes/feet. I don't believe JM had involvement in RAT crimes. But just for curiosity's sake take a look at that thread, post #45 I wrote. JM might have written something about toes, or it could just be anyone. A kind of unusual thing to write about.

I'm trying to find that post. Post #45 in the Other Victims thread is not the right one. Please post a link. TIA

 

[Ollie]

Thanks,Interesting post. If a guy liked looking at big *advertiser censored* ;most people would say 'so do I' . There are many guys that like women's feet(strange but true) ;if JM was denied his 'pleasure' ,I think he could get very angry with being denied. Then he sees a 'victim' and releases his pent up rage on her. Just my opinion of course. Where could he tuck those shoes away? Did he have a locker at the hospital? a gym locker somewhere? maybe grandma's house?