JLM: What Do We Know About Him? - #2

[Spicer2000]

I know what you are saying. Liberty is not the same as most universities. The problem is that he went on to a public college Christopher Newport and had the same sort of issue AGAIN. I could see a jock back in 2002 at a school like Liberty, crossing the line and getting into trouble. I don't excuse it, but yes, it's something that happens a lot, too much, and in most cases does not result in someone progressing to a serial rapist/killer. In fact, getting expelled, and losing the football opportunities should have been a wake up call for him to curb that sort of behavior and becoming very, very careful Instead he turns around and does it again in short order. And is still a serial sexual harasser at very least. Talk about not learning from ones mistakes.

The same goes for his DMV problems. You'd think that he'd have gotten them taken care of by now. I can see a rash of violations for a few years, a young person just not getting it, but by now, he should have cleaned up his act, knowing the consequences of them.

Agreed. Something obviously isn't clicking. But is that arrogance? Stupidity? Psychopathy? IDK.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Agreed. Something obviously isn't clicking. But is that arrogance? Stupidity? Psychopathy? IDK.

Arrogance gets my vote. Rules don't apply to him... Being kicked out twice only served to fuel his chip on the shoulder
against any female college student.

 

[wall0214]

Arrogance gets my vote. Rules don't apply to him... Being kicked out twice only served to fuel his chip on the shoulder
against any female college student.

I heard something over the weekend that the one characteristic that serial killers have is arrogance. You don't have to be smart to be arrogant....

 

[cady]

JMO The only thing he ever had going for him was his brutish size and tactics on various football teams and in wrestling...where he was accepted socially because they were somewhat governed athletic pursuits enjoyed by spectators. But his likeability did not transfer to overall likeability in the romance department. When he lost what laurels he had gained, by using his brute force on females and no longer was welcome in organized sports, the only "sport" left for him was to use his brutishness to score and win at his own game. (Remember the mention of all those motivational sayings plastered all over his apartment? A lot of them were ended by "as if no one is looking" or "hears you".....SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT, not direct quotes.) JMO

 

[jamicat]

JMO The only thing he ever had going for him was his brutish size and tactics on various football teams and in wrestling...where he was accepted socially because they were somewhat governed athletic pursuits enjoyed by spectators. But his likeability did not transfer to overall likeability in the romance department. When he lost what laurels he had gained, by using his brute force on females and no longer was welcome in organized sports, the only "sport" left for him was to use his brutishness to score and win at his own game. (Remember the mention of all those motivational sayings plastered all over his apartment? A lot of them were ended by "as if no one is looking" or "hears you".....SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT, not direct quotes.) JMO

I disagree that all he had going for him was his size and athletic prowress.He seemed have had a good personality and abilty to work with people. He could have gone into sales, coaching, any number of things and been successfult. We are not talking about someone with few options, no connections here. Somewhere along the way, instead of growing up and learning what one has to do in terms of behavior and living a responsible life, he went the other way. And he went so far that he crossed, not only the lines of propriety and harrassment into the criminal area, but into the absolute worst area of assault and murder. There are people who venture past where they should, in that direction, but most of the time, the vast majority of the time, the stop short before going too far. JM did not, it so appears. If he did indeed, kill and rape anyone, crossed that line, he belongs in lock up to keep the population safe. Can't have people like that among us.

 

[MJPeony]

I know what you are saying. Liberty is not the same as most universities. The problem is that he went on to a public college Christopher Newport and had the same sort of issue AGAIN. I could see a jock back in 2002 at a school like Liberty, crossing the line and getting into trouble. I don't excuse it, but yes, it's something that happens a lot, too much, and in most cases does not result in someone progressing to a serial rapist/killer. In fact, getting expelled, and losing the football opportunities should have been a wake up call for him to curb that sort of behavior and becoming very, very careful Instead he turns around and does it again in short order. And is still a serial sexual harasser at very least. Talk about not learning from ones mistakes.

The same goes for his DMV problems. You'd think that he'd have gotten them taken care of by now. I can see a rash of violations for a few years, a young person just not getting it, but by now, he should have cleaned up his act, knowing the consequences of them.

BBM.

True. But I think that would still fall under Spicer2000 possible theory. That it was the issue at LU that affected him in a way to start- at that point- taking it out on other women. The CNU incident would have been the first such incidence of "rage" if you will. Clearly not justified (to say the least), but it is possible the LU incident was indeed the catalyst in general.

Of course, even so, none of this would really explain anything fully, as anyone who would turn resentment ultimately into murder has psychological issues IMO. For example, I've never really understood the "insanity defense". To me, actions of this magnitude would always fall under that. I almost went into law but got bogged down with the semantics of words and couldn't handle it

Anyway, thanks Spicer for your thoughts. I think it's a plausible theory. And yes, in no way is that saying someone claimed a false rape, but just offering another idea of what could have happened since none of us really know much.

 

[cady]

JMO OK. But my impression is that he was a tag-along guy and that he was liked ok in that way, but not that he had dear friends who truly loved him. Where is his best friend? Why all the silence? I understand it in terms of his family, but I can't imagine someone's closest friend not speaking out. JMO

 

[MJPeony]

I disagree that all he had going for him was his size and athletic prowress.He seemed have had a good personality and abilty to work with people. He could have gone into sales, coaching, any number of things and been successfult. We are not talking about someone with few options, no connections here. Somewhere along the way, instead of growing up and learning what one has to do in terms of behavior and living a responsible life, he went the other way. And he went so far that he crossed, not only the lines of propriety and harrassment into the criminal area, but into the absolute worst area of assault and murder. There are people who venture past where they should, in that direction, but most of the time, the vast majority of the time, the stop short before going too far. JM did not, it so appears. If he did indeed, kill and rape anyone, crossed that line, he belongs in lock up to keep the population safe. Can't have people like that among us.

I agree with what you're saying about him having other things going for him. He also got a fresh start at CNU in many ways. And yet that went awry...

I wonder if he got positive feedback for other things in his life, besides athletics.

One thing I'll say about LU is that, if the sexual rules/standards are such that they appear to be, then anyone who applies and decides to go there surely would know this. Aren't they clearly spelled out? I'm sure they must be. It would stand to reason that if those rules are in existence then the school would care enough to broadcast them fully to the students ahead of time. In other words, if you agree to go to a university with those rules, well- then you agree to go to a university with those rules. So if you break the rules (i.e let's go with Spicer's possible theory here that JM thought it was consensual and then the woman didn't want herself to get expelled) by entering into even a consensual sexual relationship, then you know the deal. That's a risk JM took since he agreed to go to LU. He should have thought of that.

 

[MJPeony]

JMO OK. But my impression is that he was a tag-along guy and that he was liked ok in that way, but not that he had dear friends who truly loved him. Where is his best friend? Why all the silence? I understand it in terms of his family, but I can't imagine someone's closest friend not speaking out. JMO

Oh, I definitely can understand someone's closest friend not speaking out in this situation. Absolutely.

ETA: along RSC's lines below- I'm referring to "speaking out" to the public such as we'd hear about.

 

[RSC]

They are in complete shock, I imagine. What would they gain by "speaking out?" If one of my best friends were accused of something like this, I would have zero inclination to speak to the public. LE, yes. Public, no.

JMO OK. But my impression is that he was a tag-along guy and that he was liked ok in that way, but not that he had dear friends who truly loved him. Where is his best friend? Why all the silence? I understand it in terms of his family, but I can't imagine someone's closest friend not speaking out. JMO

 

[RSC]

While I appreciate Spicer's input throughout, IMO there is no way that the LU incident was consensual. It just doesn't make sense, given everything that has happened since.

I agree with what you're saying about him having other things going for him. He also got a fresh start at CNU in many ways. And yet that went awry...

I wonder if he got positive feedback for other things in his life, besides athletics.

One thing I'll say about LU is that, if the sexual rules/standards are such that they appear to be, then anyone who applies and decides to go there surely would know this. Aren't they clearly spelled out? I'm sure they must be. It would stand to reason that if those rules are in existence then the school would care enough to broadcast them fully to the students ahead of time. In other words, if you agree to go to a university with those rules, well- then you agree to go to a university with those rules. So if you break the rules (i.e let's go with Spicer's possible theory here that JM thought it was consensual and then the woman didn't want herself to get expelled) by entering into even a consensual sexual relationship, then you know the deal. That's a risk JM took since he agreed to go to LU. He should have thought of that.

 

[Tink56]

Ok, just heard back. The answer is decidedly "no." None of the cheerleaders ever heard any stories like that until just the past few weeks -- they have no idea where that rumor is coming from. He was definitely on the cheer team, but I don't know for how long or why he stopped cheering.

Hi Spicer2000...I'd like to clarify if you have heard from all the people who were cheering with JM?

If there were any such allegations, I tend to believe they would have been "handled" quietly. Being a life-long secondary teacher and former cheer adviser, and being aware of the culture of of the class of 2000 (older child), I don't think this type of thing would have been shared with the group. Just wondering...

 

[MJPeony]

While I appreciate Spicer's input throughout, IMO there is no way that the LU incident was consensual. It just doesn't make sense, given everything that has happened since.

I personally don't think it was consensual either actually. Especially now seeing all that transpired after LU. Just trying to stretch my brain to see other possible "maybes".

I do believe something about the LU incident escalated things (I am not seeing any issues come to light yet in high school for example with violence towards women), but my gut is that what escalated things was that he got called out on rape and he felt it ruined his future in football. JMO.

So I hear you.

 

[teeandcee]

By doing so, JM's football career and academic future was destroyed and he would've probably blamed her and become extremely resentful and angry.

Using your comment to jump off, not directed at you personally:

But why would this ruin his future career? Conductor posted that he/she had never found an instance of a male at UVA being kicked out for a rape CONVICTION, let alone just an accusation. So, sure maybe JM had to leave Liberty and the other place, but it seems colleges in general don't take rape accusations very seriously, especially if we're talking about a talented football player who is an absolute god in our culture.

Obviously in HIS mind it may have ruined his career, but if he was talented enough even a conviction wouldn't stop him. It's all about his perception of things though really. I understand that.

 

[skibaboo]

Parker Slaybaugh has new info about JLM... says coming soon

https://www.facebook.com/ParkSlaybaugh/photos/a.310762289068800.1073741825.148022182009479/530436657101361/?type=1&theater

 

[cady]

They are in complete shock, I imagine. What would they gain by "speaking out?" If one of my best friends were accused of something like this, I would have zero inclination to speak to the public. LE, yes. Public, no.

I believe that I would visit my friend in jail,and while I may be shocked and sad, I would ask them to talk to investigators if there is anything to tell them that would help them find Hannah. Too late now, I suppose. JMO

 

[Bonacker]

JMO OK. But my impression is that he was a tag-along guy and that he was liked ok in that way, but not that he had dear friends who truly loved him. Where is his best friend? JMO

There's a contributor on this very board (Paulap-CORRECTED) who says JM was a close, best friend of his kids. Also, apparently, there are reports of a lifelong friend out on the West coast we've read about on here. And JM had a girlfriend for four years. All this doesn't quite fit the clinical pattern of someone so sick or alienated that they cannot sustain normal human relationships/friendships.

 

[Quill]

There's a contributor on this very board (Gilamon) who says JM was a close, best friend of his kids. Also, apparently, there are reports of a lifelong friend out on the West coast we've read about on here. And JM had a girlfriend for four years. All this doesn't quite fit the clinical pattern of someone so sick or alienated that they cannot sustain normal human relationships/friendships.

IIRC not Gilamon. I think it was Paulap. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[MtnLaur]

BBM.

True. But I think that would still fall under Spicer2000 possible theory. That it was the issue at LU that affected him in a way to start- at that point- taking it out on other women. The CNU incident would have been the first such incidence of "rage" if you will. Clearly not justified (to say the least), but it is possible the LU incident was indeed the catalyst in general.

Of course, even so, none of this would really explain anything fully, as anyone who would turn resentment ultimately into murder has psychological issues IMO. For example, I've never really understood the "insanity defense". To me, actions of this magnitude would always fall under that. I almost went into law but got bogged down with the semantics of words and couldn't handle it

Anyway, thanks Spicer for your thoughts. I think it's a plausible theory. And yes, in no way is that saying someone claimed a false rape, but just offering another idea of what could have happened since none of us really know much.

I agree with you and Spicer that this is a plausible theory. Jamicat, your points are valid as well. (And of course, we can speculate 'til the cows come home--we are all just thinking aloud with little "real" information.)

Can someone help me? (I don't have a link.). IIRC, didn't the accuser at LU speak of him as being "overly aggressive"? (I may be wrong about that.) If that's true, though, it alludes to Jamicat's point about JM not knowing or respecting boundaries, and being at least a serial sexual harasser. So that would make me think that this behavior was already present before LU, to what degree I have no idea.

At the same time, though, I can see where the LU incident could be a triggering event, if he perceived that he had done nothing wrong. Yes, his football career was somewhat salvaged at CNU, but perhaps the die was already cast, the anger and rage already there. Since we know religion was somehow part of his life, the fact that this event ended his time at LU may be important....maybe being at CNU did not make up for this loss. And, yes, Spicer, I would love to know what the LU accuser looked like.

MJPeony, I'm like you--I'm interested in the "why's" of human behavior. My background is psychology/counseling/student development. But everyone is unique, and we aren't going to be able to strictly pigeonhole JM into a neat category.

Like you said, no one is saying the LU event was a false accusation. We're just exploring the possibilities. Whatever has happened in all these long years, it's a tragedy of immense proportions. This case has affected me so very much, and my heart goes out to the Graham's especially, but also to the families of ALL the missing and murdered...and to JM's family as well.

 

[MJPeony]

Bonacker- I think you may have gotten some of the relationships mixed up there in your post above (not criticizing, just avoiding potential mis-information being out there).

Gilamon I believe is connected to the case b/c he lives near the MH/HG location sites and said there had been searchers in and around his property a week or so ago.

In any case, I do think it's possible JM fits a clinical pattern of someone who lives a double-life. Seems to have normal relationships in "one life" but has an entirely different private life known only to him and his victims.