jodi Arias TAKES THE STAND #51 *may contain graphic and adult content*

[LambChop]

They are defensive wounds not offensive wounds. jmo

I think people are getting the idea that Travis scratched her because Flores noticed scratch marks on her arms and she said they were from her "feral" cat. When has she had an animal....feral or otherwise? My guess is she did his fingernails too. Just to make sure no DNA would be found. Didn't people report her as wearing long sleeves during that timeframe? Mid-June????? jmo

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Jodi said she went over in the afternoon, after she got off work. She would not commit to what time she got off work, but like you said, if she went in at 10:30 and only worked 4 hours, then she gets off work at 2:30. It is a minimum 25 minute drive from Mimi's to Travis' house (see google maps link: http://goo.gl/maps/i0gyE), putting Jodi at Travis' house at 3:00 p.m. at the very earliest.

From 3:00 p.m, she had 53 minutes to arrive, go in and help him pack boxes in the attic - she said she was handing him boxes while he took them up to the attic; receive the porcelain angel from him (and didn't he sign it or something), "hang out" and put the angel down long enough to forget it when she left; leave and drive away, remember the angel and drive back to Travis' house, go inside, walk upstairs, and see Travis engaged in masturbatory conduct; freak out, cry, and get back in her car to leave.

Then she called him twice before he responds. And the content of the messages that evening indicate that Jodi was not there at all that afternoon. It looks to me like Jodi called Travis around 4, probably when she got off work, and she did not see him before FHE. I think she went back over there that night after Travis said he couldn't talk.

Here are the text messages and phone calls from Jan 21, with the time between the afternoon calls/texts inserted for reference :

1/21/08-3:53pm- Jodi calls Travis
(16 minutes)
1/21/08- 4:09pm- Jodi calls Travis
(20 minutes)
1/21/08-4:29pm- Travis returns Jodi’s call
(24 minutes)
1/21/08-4:53pm- Jodi calls Travis
(1 minute)
1/21/08-4:54pm -Travis returns Jodi’s call
(17 minutes)
1/21/08-5:11pm - Travis returns Jodi’s call
(9 minutes)
1/21/08-5:20pm- Travis calls Jodi
(18 minutes)
1/21/08-5:38pm- Jodi says: I can’t remember am I coming in for u on Wed at 10:30?
(10 minutes)
1/21/08 -5:48pm -Travis calls Jodi
(5 minutes)
1/21/08 -5:53pm -Jodi returns Travis’s call
(48 minutes)
1/21/08-6:41pm- Jodi says: Can we trade cars before FHE?

1/21/08-7:19pm- Jodi says: Never mind. One of the stores I need to go to closes at 8pm. I’ll just go tomorrow.

1/21/08-7:20pm- Jodi resends 7:19pm text message

1/21/08-7:24pm- Travis says: I got a ride from some peeps in the ward now you can just go get it. Let me know when you made the exchange.

1/21/08-7:25pm- Jodi says: I’m almost asleep. Well see Zzz…

1/21/08-7:27pm- Travis says: You obviously don’t need it that bad. I got a ride so you could go get the car. Now you’re going to sleep?

1/21/08-7:29pm- Jodi says: I fell asleep and a phone call woke me up. That’s when I sent u the text.

1/21/08-7:36pm- Jodi says: I have a really bad headache. I can barely move.

1/21/08-9:11pm- Travis says: Alright get it tomorrow then.

1/21/08-9:16pm- Jodi says: Can you talk right now?

1/21/08-9:17pm- Travis says: Not right now

Thank you for all that. Do you have a link for the phone call time lengths? Or a trial day?

1/21/08-3:53pm- Jodi calls Travis
(16 minutes)
1/21/08- 4:09pm- Jodi calls Travis
(20 minutes)
1/21/08-4:29pm- Travis returns Jodi’s call
(24 minutes)
1/21/08-4:53pm- Jodi calls Travis
(1 minute)
1/21/08-4:54pm -Travis returns Jodi’s call
(17 minutes)
1/21/08-5:11pm - Travis returns Jodi’s call
(9 minutes)
1/21/08-5:20pm- Travis calls Jodi
(18 minutes)
1/21/08-5:38pm- Jodi says: I can’t remember am I coming in for u on Wed at 10:30?
(10 minutes)
1/21/08 -5:48pm -Travis calls Jodi
(5 minutes)
1/21/08 -5:53pm -Jodi returns Travis’s call
(48 minutes)

That right there is enough to refute her. She said it was still light out when it happened, and she says she didn't return his calls for a while after it happened. Sunset was at 5:49 PM that day.

 

[manzana]

Yes ....

 

[katydid23]

The whole Hoover Dam thing registers on my hinky meter...surely they have cams there....

The Hoover Dam has MAJOR surveillance since 9/11 happened. Homeland Security put a lot of security into the area because of the damage that terrorists could do if they damaged that monstrous dam. So I don't think she could have dropped anything near the dam itself.

But Lake Mead itself is huge. So she could have pulled up to the lake area and dumped something around there.

 

[tinkabella]

Travis' room was not the only bathroom in the house for her to shower. All the commotion going on, gunshot and all, it was obvious there were no other people in the house. She could have used any of the showers.

But there would be blood over on the other side of the house. she had to leave the bathroom to get out the suite. she cleaned up in travis bathroom. no blood on the steps carpet leaving room etc. only small amounts found on washing machine. And i believe a sink downstairs bathroom. i think she stopped in there to give herself a final look over before leaving.

 

[Zuri]

I found this too: defendant disclosed to the State copies of 10 letters written from 11/27/06 to 5/27/08 that were received by JA electronically from a third person. These letters would show her state of mind and awareness of prior acts of violence. The "confession" of having "assaulted" her.."victim could have been charged with unrelated assaults or sexual offenses". This was taken from one of Nurmi's motions about keeping the letters in as evidence. BEFORE they were proved to be forgeries. OMG she is a monster

 

[Zeno49]

wELCOME!!!!
One of the things I wish he had pointed out was that no matter where the call originated, it would have shown up on Jodi's cell as an incoming call.
All five happened to be from his cell.

Can somebody answer this question for me?

RE: Alleged Pedophilia Incident Jan 22 2008

As I recall JM showed JA the cell phone records and text message streams that belonged to TA - NOT JA.
JA was very confident that she could defend the claim that there was a barrage of phone calls from TA after the pedophilia incident. JM showed that TA did NOT make a barrage of phone calls from his cell phone to JA from 4PM to 7PM. But JA implied that all these calls were made from TA's "LAND LINE". Obviously it seems to me JM did NOT have access to JA cell phone incoming calls/records on Jan22 2008. Otherwise JA could not be confident that the inference could be made that TA made his desperate phone calls via his land line.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yes ....

So he's naked, cornered in a shower stall.....SITTING! She surprises him by thrusting a knife almost 5 inches into his chest causing a wound that alone would have killed him in minutes....

What exactly do you feel he should have been doing?




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[ILikeToBendPages]

maybe he could reenact it with other people acting out the roles.

remember susan wright? kelly siegler brought the dang bed in the courtroom, tied up an assistant and straddled him in front of the jury.

I wonder if Juan would put her through step by step what she's testified to on the stand. Get her to where she says she "black out" and make her go though the paces of where the blood is found. I'm sure somewhere in there Jodi will slip up. Maybe we could hope for a" it didn't happened that way" and Jodi will show us what she did?

That would bring all home for me.

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

But she didnt start by stabbing his heart..right? Because he was able to stand at the sink and move down the hallway? So initially she was stabbing him in less deadly areas. I think he was incapacitated already, when those wounds were being inflicted.

But I could be wrong. Nothing she does makes any sense, so I don't know why I even bother trying to figure her out.

What I find fascinating about the questions of whether or not someone of his stature would have been able to fend off the knife attacks brought by someone smaller than him is that people are only taking into account the physicality of TA vs JA. They aren't taking into account how SHOCKING it would be to have someone stabbing you, repeatedly. It's not as if she was going to pause in between each stab and give him a chance to get the upper hand. He could have been stabbed 5 or 6 times before he really started comprehend what was happening and, clearly, by then it would have been too late. So, no, I don't think that she had to have had help to do any of this. Adrenaline is a powerful thing.

I am also going with the ME on him being shot after he was dead unless there are some examples of people being shot in the head (while still alive) and not experiencing the trauma the ME has described one would expect to see. JA wouldn't know the truth if it came up and stabbed HER in the heart, so I just don't believe her version of the events - at all. jmo

ETA: One more thing--- I know many say that she shot him at the end because she thought he was still alive, personally, I think she just wanted to use the gun. I mean, she went through the trouble of staging a break in, in order to get it. Plus, it was kind of like her way of putting the cherry on top. Again, JMO.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

Zeno49, you and I were watching two totally different crosses on Thursday. I just read your most recent post on the last thread. You said the jury did not comprehend what Juan was doing and him starting out by repeating what Josi said that her sister was dumb was forgotten.

I beg to differ. I didn't forget a thing. And you must believe the jurors so have suffered through all this testimony are dumber than dirt. I disagree with everything you said. Jodi did comes across as arrogant, self serving, and a psychopath. The jurors get it and you will see when Juan closes and he will totally bring it and she will be convicted.

Lots of REAL LIVE attorneys are concerned about this very thing - not jurors being "dumber than dirt", but that it was not as easy to follow as some were hoping.
Zeno49 is not alone in this thought - it is not a black and white issue - it is a matter of opinion.
I'd wager there are some on this very forum that agree with Zeno 49, and have not voiced their opinion because of responses like this.

 

[LambChop]

Since an internet search engine brought me to these Arias threads & a posting about the accused's planets, I assume an astrological comment is acceptable. Of course I charted the event of the murder since we had the rare benefit of a time stamp for that. A powerful malefic Fixed Star was rising, Serpentis, known as a "pest & terror to society". That certainly resembles the opinion of defendant Arias among the victim's
friends, relatives and associates. This rising degree is ruled by both Mars and Pluto.


Mars was in the House of Travel and the progressed Sun of Arias was with it, both at
14° Leo.
Deny it she may but we already know that Travis Alexander's trip to Cancun was an
inflammatory issue between them. You will not be at all surprised to know that the event chart tells us that Arias deliberately chose the moment her victim was nude, wet and indisposed, to strike, Venus combust the Sun ruling him in opportunity sextile to her, Mars 14° Leo. (Sun 14:44 II, Venus 13:37 II). When we are combust, we are unable to act as we would choose to, incapacitated. Mercury, the intent in this event, is on the House of Homicide. The Moon in Cancer is far inside that Homicide House and opposite the other Arias ruler, Pluto. The Moon at 2° 01' Cancer is again in opportunity sextile with Saturn at 2° 37' Virgo in the House of Execution. Uranus sits in the House of Endings, at the same degree as the lunar nodes, denoting fatality.
The chart decidedly does NOT show that the camera was dropped, another fabrication. The Cancer Moon (Sun Sign of Arias) was Out of Bounds that day and Mars and Pluto were contra-parallel: a single minded, focused premeditation to kill.

Tuba, I am so happy to see you posting. :seeya:

 

[Zeno49]

The Hoover Dam has MAJOR surveillance since 9/11 happened. Homeland Security put a lot of security into the area because of the damage that terrorists could do if they damaged that monstrous dam. So I don't think she could have dropped anything near the dam itself.

But Lake Mead itself is huge. So she could have pulled up to the lake area and dumped something around there.

As I recall JA claimed she threw the gun into a dumpster located somewhere in St George UT.???????

 

[Pensfan]

I have always found it hard to believe that JA would have shot TA in the head in order to “finish him off”.
I believe JA went to Mesa to kill TA and she carried a gun and a knife or knives with her.

JA had to choose a time to kill TA; that is, she was waiting for an opportunity.
One candidate would have been tying up TA during sex.
JA sagaciously thought about “offing him “ in the shower. So JA dressed packed and got her weapons in place ie into pants pockets and then posed as the “shower photographer”. She lured him into a vulnerable position while in the shower.

Diversion=
TA was physically larger more agile than JA. TA was athletic – a wrestler. So a direct attack at him would likely have been problematic and uncertain. If JA had attacked TA and failed the entire enterprise would have ended in a disaster.

If JA had access to both a gun and a knife why in the world would she use a knife to initiate an attack on a victim that was both larger and stronger than she was?? Even with the element of surprise an opening knife thrust to the chest or body would have been very very RISKY.

It makes NO sense.

Given a choice of weapons you merely pull out a gun and shoot TA in the head FIRST. With this lethal wound, normally you would be done with it and the murder completed inside the shower stall. Unfortunately JA did not aim correctly and did not kill him with the first shot. The head shot did not render him unconscious.
(I maintain the shell casing was disturbed and moved from its initial resting place during the ensuing melee)


IMPROBABLILITY OF SHOOT LAST

JA successfully plunges a knife into TA chest and back over 20 times. Then because TA still would not die JA straddles him; pulls his neck up and slices his throat open with a single stroke from TA left to right.
He exsanguinates over a minute or so.
The scene is horrendously bloody. The effort needed to kill him was vastly underestimated. TA 185 lbs body is lying bloodied in the bedroom. JA needs to pick up the corpse by the shoulders and drag him some 5 yards back into the bathroom. This scenario has complicated her clean kill and escape fantasy.

JA manages to get the corpse back into the bathroom. WHY, oh, WHY would you take out a gun to finish him off – since he was already very much dead? JA ‘s interests were to kill him and quickly get on the road towards SLC.

Makes NO SENSE.

JA hands and fingers were saturated with slippery blood. Why take out a gun, *advertiser censored* it, and shoot with slippery hands??? By this time JA was certainly in a state of panic. She had a bloody mess to attend to PLUS she had to insure that there was NOTHING implicating her or “putting JA at the crime scene”. Why do something gratuitous devoid of any value?

bbm
Stabbing someone with a knife is VERY personal. Jodi wanted to experience the thrill of killing Travis with her own hands. Psychopaths are always looking for their next thrill.

Travis didn't die instantly like Jodi imagined he would die (as seen in Norman Bate's female victim in Psycho). He was completely incapacitated after Jodi gave him a hemothorax and slit his neck. At this point, he was not a danger to Jodi. Jodi took the gun out of her purse after she had stabbed Travis 29 times, cut Travis' jugular and carotid arteries, and Travis was still alive and making sputtering noises.

 

[katydid23]

Can somebody answer this question for me?

RE: Alleged Pedophilia Incident Jan 22 2008

As I recall JM showed JA the cell phone records and text message streams that belonged to TA - NOT JA.
JA was very confident that she could defend the claim that there was a barrage of phone calls from TA after the pedophilia incident. JM showed that TA did NOT make a barrage of phone calls from his cell phone to JA from 4PM to 7PM. But JA implied that all these calls were made from TA's "LAND LINE". Obviously it seems to me JM did NOT have access to JA cell phone incoming calls/records on Jan22 2008. Otherwise JA could not be confident that the inference could be made that TA made his desperate phone calls via his land line.

Good question. But I don't understand how the prosecution wouldn't have access to those records, if the defense does. :waitasec:

 

[pallmall]

Did anyone else notice that it looks like she is praying at the beginning of Thursday's cross examination? She's not just looking down, because when the clerk says "All rise for the jury" her head stays in the same position - she opens her eyes and stands up. I don't seem to remember seeing her do this any other day of the trial.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQWs6oN0Axg"]Jodi Arias Murder Trial. Day 21. Part 1. Cross Examination. - YouTube[/ame]

 

[MsCharlieChan]

Originally Posted by carnnell
And herself.. I think she took a shower before she push/shoved him in the shower tip toeing into the closet, getting into clean clothes and exiting via the bedroom down the stairs and out the door.

The reason I say this because there is no blood after the one spot at the entrance to his bedroom from the bathroom hallway. She would have too much blood on her to keep from dripping and/or smearing it on items on the way out the door. JMHO

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've wondered a couple of things about the scene and JA's M.O. Anyone have insights on any of the following theories?

-- I think JA showered downstairs, and that's why she testi-lied that they had sex in TA's office -- and he told her to go clean up. This would explain any evidence of her found in the downstairs bathroom area. So is the truth that she "did everything" upstairs to TA, and then showered downstairs before leaving the home?

-- My guess is she used the cup to super clean-off TA's penis and other special areas, to double-wash away evidence of her DNA. Once she placed him back in the shower, I think she ran the shower head. But with him being too heavy to turn over in a tight space, the cup came in handy. This could have allowed her to clean off other areas well, where the water angle didn't exactly reach. For example, perhaps she lifted up his penis and poured water directly on/all around it from the cup.

-- In the body-dragging photo, you can't see a shoe on her foot. So I've wondered if Jodi wore socks, so that no tell-tale shoe imprint could be found. A shoe imprint was a major piece of evidence in the OJ Simpson trial, so did JA cover her tracks by wearing socks? Could have even been those slip-proof hospital socks with the rubber bits covering the soles. Perhaps the vacuum cleaner being left out downstairs is further indication that she was more careful than we know about "erasing" sock/foot imprints.

-- Did she wear gloves for most of the battle? The fact that there's only that one hand print kind of suggests her hands may have been protected most of the time. It seems that otherwise, there might have been bloody finger prints and hand prints in a LOT more places. This might also help explain why TA had none of her DNA under his fingernails. Was she well clothed & covered up -- hands, face, feet and everything else?

Any thoughts that either further or disprove these theories? T.I.A.!

 

[gamatilda]

I asked in another thread but not sure if I got the question in before we changed threads. Did MM write the forged letters or did he just happen to have them? I was wondering if Jodi or somebody else used Travis' journals that were stolen. Did they write the letters using a piece of paper over Travis' journal and trace the words or letters to make it look like he wrote them?

I also have a thought about the camera time stamp. If it was a new camera, the right time might not have been set yet. The murder might have happened earlier in the day and that would have given her more time to clean up the scene and herself before a roommate came home.

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

As for hand defensive wounds, how do you explain no DNA in any of his fingernails?

It looked to me as if he was grabbing the knife. Are you saying she stabbed him in the hands and that's how he got the cuts? Sorry if my questions seem sill/stupid. I've been trying to catch up but it's so much information in such a small space of time.

 

[gngr~snap]

So why then, after the neck slice, did Arias shoot him at a distance instead of putting the gun up against TA's head to finish him off ?
He certainly would have been incapacitated from the neck wound ...

In nursing school I witnessed my first death.
The woman was on a dialysis machine and she threw a clot.
It logded in he lung.
2min later she died.
Code was called and she was a flatline.
We never regained a pulse.

Every one left and we were told to prepare
her body for her son who had been called to the hospital .

We were not expecting her to do the things she did after
death.
Even 5 min later she was burping and farting .

CREEPED US OUT BIG TIME!!!

Were like omg she's still alive!

Nope. She was very dead.

Guessbthe nursing staff got a good chuckle