Jodi Arias; the sequence of events

[wasnt_me]

Too true! Which is why I am back to her leaving it by accident. lol. Either that, or she really honestly didn't know that the pictures could be retrieved. Just because she think she is brilliant, it doesn't mean that she actually is. Also, and, too, all of the pictures couldn't be recovered. So, in that sense she would be partially right.

Yes, I believe Jodi thinks she knows everything, but she doesn't. And that accounts for some of the pitiful lies she tells like about the car switching day and having the gall to make up fake letters and attempting to defend herself in a murder trial.

I think she thought erasing was sufficient, and if some pics were irretrievable, then to a degree, she was right, as you say. Being that she thought this, then I revert to my theory that her purported "hyper-literal" mind caused her to take everything hers and leave everything Travis'. So she took her own camera, left Travis'. I think after she deleted the pics, she forgot about the now unimportant camera and that's how it wound up in the washer.

 

[SMK]

I do believe it was premeditated but no thanks to the Prosecutor. It's because I believe she used the gun first. I believe she stole the gun to kill him and she tried to kill him with it.

It's the Jury I'm worried about. Because without the gun first, murder one doesn't work for me. Remember Seamans case again. The Judge gave her murder two even though she hit her husband with that ax around 20 plus times. He determined it was because she was afraid of him and also that she didn't premeditate it.

IMO

Molly333 - I was trawling and found this by accident but thought it was interesting:

From, The Double Bind of Remorse and Redemption:

The most persuasive of Arias’ actions after killing Alexander, and the one that belies both the possibility of premeditation and of her lacking remorse is the hysterical and acutely distressed phone call she made to Gus Searcy, her sometime boss and confidante, in the middle of the night after she killed Alexander.

In it she communicated to Mr. Searcy that Alexander was dead, but was too incoherent and agitated for Searcy to ascertain anything other than that she was at her wits’ end. This is an event that the prosecution and the media have conveniently ignored, and Searcy’s testimony has been derided and thrown aside with contempt, no doubt because it is a strong disruptive factor in the theory of premeditation and one that forces us to entertain the feasibility of remorse. Had Arias premeditated a murder, she would not have followed up by revealing that she knew of Alexander’s death days before his body was discovered.

This, and the frantic distress with which she communicated the information to Searcy indicate that she was in great shock and regret about what had happened. Whatever she did afterwards in an instinctual striving for self-preservation does not cancel this first gut-response, nor invalidate the implications of what her true underlying sentiment might be.

http://babelbooth.com/2013/03/23/the-double-bind-of-remorse-and-of-redemption/

 

[geevee]

It's Travis' camera. I'm assuming he set the time, not Jodi. Correct me if I'm wrong, but AZ does not do DST, so at the time of year the pic was taken, it would be the same time in CA and in AZ because CA had sprang forward already. When CA falls back, AZ will be an hour ahead.

Is that correct?

I was thinking it was set for PST, only semi-logical reason I can think of for the extra hour she needs to clean up. Of course, they may not have been taken on that day at all.

 

[MeeBee]

Molly333 - I was trawling and found this by accident but thought it was interesting:


http://babelbooth.com/2013/03/23/the-double-bind-of-remorse-and-of-redemption/

There's a reason neither side has focused on it: it probably didn't happen.

 

[geevee]

I don't believe they did anything on june04. He risked pretty much everything seeing her. Maybe she held the phone tape over his head. The the may26 text, she slit tires, he's in bad graces with his Church. Other girl friend left him because of her. Most of his friends figured her out. How can one more fling mean anything and keep him on the right path? Going to Cancun shortly. I want to get back to the old way, there's more to life than being a dildo with a heart. I want my reputation back.


No way on june04!

I can't see the time on it but in the pic with the closest view of her hoohaa the cover she's lying on has small brown squares, I cropped it pretty close before uploading but it's very easy to see.

 

[wasnt_me]

There's something to this but imo it would apply to sentencing not guilt. It would not disprove all the planning or make it believable that Travis body slammed her over a dropped camera.

Yeah, please give me a break about the body slam. :facepalm:

Why didn't he run down and body slam her for breaking the glass? Did she get body slammed over his car? No.

Just like JM was asking --did Travis even look to see if the camera was damaged? He just knew it was damaged automatically and knew it was damaged to such a degree that she had to be body slammed? And then instead of checking the all-important camera for damage, he commences to pop-goes-the weasel chase her all over the bedroom? Over what? For what reason? He doesn't even know anything even happened to the camera.

The story is ridiculous and cannot be seriously considered for self-defence.

 

[wasnt_me]

I do believe it was premeditated but no thanks to the Prosecutor. It's because I believe she used the gun first. I believe she stole the gun to kill him and she tried to kill him with it.

It's the Jury I'm worried about. Because without the gun first, murder one doesn't work for me. Remember Seamans case again. The Judge gave her murder two even though she hit her husband with that ax around 20 plus times. He determined it was because she was afraid of him and also that she didn't premeditate it.

IMO

You said you were worried about the jury. Didn't we conclude that the judge overturned the jury's premeditation decision? If that's correct as I remember, then the jury isn't the problem in that case. The judge was the problem.

The knife theory doesn't work for you, but that doesn't mean it won't work for the jurors. So far, this poll indicates that knife works for 71% of people polled. Who knows if the percentage will rise or fall if thousands more people knew about the poll, but I believe that it's a good sign that knife first works for a majority of people.

I also do not think, imo, that the jury has been instructed that it cannot be premeditated due to change in weapons. That is one small piece, but they must look at the evidence in its totality. They will not be doing their jobs to let one small piece of evidence override the preponderance of other evidence.

The jury is also not required to 100% believe anything they perceive the prosecutor has indicated. Verdicts mostly come about based upon evidence, not based upon what the prosecutor is trying to do.

 

[deedee21]

There's a reason neither side has focused on it: it probably didn't happen.

Theres no remorse. She stares down and smiles at family members.

 

[SMK]

I don't believe they did anything on june04. He risked pretty much everything seeing her. Maybe she held the phone tape over his head. The the may26 text, she slit tires, he's in bad graces with his Church. Other girl friend left him because of her. Most of his friends figured her out. How can one more fling mean anything and keep him on the right path? Going to Cancun shortly. I want to get back to the old way, there's more to life than being a dildo with a heart. I want my reputation back.


No way on june04!

That's the spirit!:great:

 

[MeeBee]

Theres no remorse. She stares down and smiles at family members.

I agree. Remorse doesn't just appear in one, small burst and then POOF gone forever.

 

[SMK]

I agree. Remorse doesn't just appear in one, small burst and then POOF gone forever.

You make an important point. I wonder if this author didn't misplace his sympathy. Really fine writing, though.

 

[wasnt_me]

What you are saying is perfectly logical and reasonable.

However: :what:

There is still a nagging feeling that BW000 is right. And where there is a nagging feeling, there is often an uncoscious LOGIC at play..... and BW0000 and Sleuth 5, listen to this as well if you like.:seeya:

Something about BW0000 saying that the sex pics and the shower pics may not be from June 4 rings all too true. But it also rings true that JA could not have had the sheer genius to pull it off as I post above. Even her devious mind would not be quite so complicated.

And yet we all of us know that law enforcement investigators will draw conclusions and make the evidence fit. I would not think it too immoral if - KNOWING as they did that Arias was guilty as sin, and not wanting to see her walk - they jumped to the conclusion tha the pics were from that day ( he was, after all, found in the shower) and manipulated the date/time to that end.

JA is shocked as she knows they are from another day- yet she cannot deny the bloody print and hair.
EUREKA, THE THEORY STILL HOLDS!!!:great:

If they are not from the same day, why in the world would the defence team not contest them? Why would Jodi not make it a point of her defence? Instead, she agrees they are from the same day and she paints of picture of what happened that day.

Jodi is known to fabricate stuff--like the abuse, the paedophilia on car exchange day, fake letters, the reasons for her injuries, gas cans to prove she wasn't in AZ, so I have to ask why in the world wouldn't she have come up with a reason to discount photos that were TRULY and HONESTLY not from June 4th?

 

[geevee]

There's a reason neither side has focused on it: it probably didn't happen.

With this knowledge, why isn't Gus a defense witness?

 

[MeeBee]

With this knowledge, why isn't Gus a defense witness?

He was a defense witness and yet, this never came up. Like I said, they know it probably didn't happen. Juan would eat him alive.

 

[wasnt_me]

Pretty good analysis except the bullet track doesn't fit this scenario.

I have her shooting first and the rest about the same.

That darn bullet trajectory is what hangs me up.

And common sense: if you bring a gun you use it, and those cheap little guns jam easily.

She brought the gun--and she used it, as well. We just don't know in what order.

 

[SMK]

If they are not from the same day, why in the world would the defence team not contest them? Why would Jodi not make it a point of her defence? Instead, she agrees they are from the same day and she paints of picture of what happened that day.

Jodi is known to fabricate stuff--like the abuse, the paedophilia on car exchange day, fake letters, the reasons for her injuries, gas cans to prove she wasn't in AZ, so I have to ask why in the world wouldn't she have come up with a reason to discount photos that were TRULY and HONESTLY not from June 4th?

:furious: are you trying to destroy my theory? :what:

 

[RealityMan]

But it is apparent, is it not, that they appear to be on all tile?

Definitely all on tile. I just can't figure out whether it is more likely the pool of blood got on the carpet before or after this photo. If the pool of blood got there afterwards, TA must've somehow moved himself there as I think JA was trying to stop him from getting there. If the blood got there before, why is JA standing between TA and the bedroom? I would think she would try to drag TA back to the bathroom by his feet.

And it's apparent that right beside the huge pool of blood is a slide pattern against the wall. So it becomes possible that either he slid against the wall, or she slid him against the wall. Him sliding himself seems more logical, but logical is a dirty word in this case.

The smear I'm thinking of is the long smear on the left hallway wall as you face the bathroom. It is shown in the crime scene photos, but this smear is not visible in the first bleeding photo. It would be interesting to see how that smear aligns with the position of TA in that photo. It looks like there could be a close correspondence, but I always imagined that TA would've created this smear as he fell forward moving away from the bathroom. But, in this photo, TA is on his back.

I thought Jodi's hand print was on the wall opposite of this smear we are discussing?

I think the smear I'm thinking of and the palm print were found on the same wall. I could be wrong though.

 

[LambChop]

Yeah, please give me a break about the body slam. :facepalm:

Why didn't he run down and body slam her for breaking the glass? Did she get body slammed over his car? No.

Just like JM was asking --did Travis even look to see if the camera was damaged? He just knew it was damaged automatically and knew it was damaged to such a degree that she had to be body slammed? And then instead of checking the all-important camera for damage, he commences to pop-goes-the weasel chase her all over the bedroom? Over what? For what reason? He doesn't even know anything even happened to the camera.

The story is ridiculous and cannot be seriously considered for self-defence.

How about coming out of a shower with wet feet, wet hands, wet everything and trying to pick her up to body slam her and somehow he remains standing. That is some fete. jmo

 

[katydid23]

No --he's not using the terms disorganized and organized.

He's showing you through the evidence--a very organized perp who commits a very disorganized murder, and then he calls it murder one because the organized perp premeditated it back when she stole the gun but, turned into a disorganized perp when she killed him with a knife and left a mess behind.

It's how he is developing his case.

But, the knife and that crime scene gives a Juror latitude to say, She didn't premeditate it, it looks to me like he attacked her, she spontaneously grabbed a knife to defend herself, and then she lost it. Murder two. [or whatever].

Unless he fixes his case.

IMO

" it looks like he attacked her.."

What makes it look like he attacked her? He was sitting down in the shower with a scared look on his face---seconds later he is shot in the head.

I don't think the defense has shown the jury anything to make them believe he attacked her. JMO

" she didn't premeditate it.."

She did premeditate her secret trip to Arizona. Why would she go to such great lengths to hide that visit to Travis's if she had no nefarious plans?

" she spontaneously grabs a knife to defend herself.."

Were the wounds in his back self defense? And how does she spontaneously grab a knife? She had no injuries herself. How could it be a fight for her own life and she has no bruises, or broken bones, other than the cvut she got from using the knife to stab him?

 

[wasnt_me]

I've always thought his expression exhibits a bit of irritation that Jodi is still in the bathroom taking photos of him. I'm guessing at this point he would prefer that she just leave his house.

It might be the attitude that he had after their afternoon of sex. She may have picked up on it, fueling her anger and determination to carry through with her plan.

I know, I'm reading a lot into that expression...

Dave

Jodi's last ex expressed that he didn't want to take shower pics, but she talked him into it. I seemed to remember his irritation with it toward the end. If he was taking a real shower and agreed to just a few pics at the beginning, I can see him getting irritated because it's colder with the shower door open, he's pruning in the water, and after a while, in those circumstances, it feels itchy. At least to me. So I could see him being irritated with doing it if it hadn't been his idea.

Someone said maybe TA liked a cold shower. Well, maybe he did--if he and Jodi really didn't have sex, then that lends credence to the proverbial cold shower.