Jodi Arias; the sequence of events

[LambChop]

Are you saying that JA did a back bend to take a picture behind her foot? :waitasec:

LOL.....if you watch her statement tape before they arrested her where she is sitting in the chair and bends backwards you could believe it's possible.

 

[geevee]

Could she have had the camera on a strap on her right hand? She of course would have taken that strap with her because it belonged to her and not TA but it could explain why the angles don't look like it's sitting at an angle on the floor like it'd have to be to take the upside down pictures.

One thing about doing the clothes, she had to have washed two loads because the duvet cover was in the dryer and she clearly was dragging him down the hall in that (you can see buttons on the upper left of it), which makes the time stamps even more surreal - how did she have time to get one load done, then the one with the camera in and get out before Enrique got home before 6:30? Unless she set the camera time for an hour or more earlier before taking pics (at last the shower pics).

 

[deedee21]

Jodi did an interview with Dateline and Inside Edition. She said Travis had projects he wanted to complete. She went on to say that some will be completed and some wont be. How does a dead man complete a project? What is she talking about? We do know she stopped him from going to Mexico. If you recall, Jodi called Travis voicemail and talked about their upcoming trip. She made this call after he was dead. I could not hear everything she said but she did talk about the trip they were going to take together to Crater Lake. Crater Lake is a National Park in southern Oregon. Jodi lived in northern Cali.on the border of Oregon. She referred to the projects he will be able to complete ( while hes dead). She made a point of saying she got rid of all the evidence before a check point. Maybe everything was in the car trunk. Maybe she completed his project for him and the evidence, gun, ect, is in Crater Lake. She claims he bought a book of places to go before you die.I think she bought it.

 

[RealityMan]

You're also excluding the other entire half of his testimony when he said it was incapacitating and fatal.

It is not my intention to leave out any part of his testimony.

On the other hand, you seem to be leaving the part where he says that although the gunshot wound was a "serious injury," "it would not immediately incapacitate or kill him," as well as other parts of the ME's testimony in which he refuses to rule out the possibility that JA fired the gun first.

What part of "it would not immediately incapacitate or kill him" makes you think the ME meant to say the opposite?

There is a difference between "incapaciting" and "immediately incapacitating," right?

 

[RealityMan]

Are you saying that JA did a back bend to take a picture behind her foot? :waitasec:

Why would she have to be doing a back bend?

Is that her right foot or her left foot in the photo?

And what part of her body do you think caused the camera to activate?

 

[wilsodh]

They already had probable cause for the death penalty with the gun first.

I don't disagree. But, as we've seen from the Anthony case, one can never be sure about a jury! If JM really wants the death penalty, his job is to go beyond probable to 'certainty'.

Eh, Jodi is clearly lying no matter what the state says. Her story of the body slam, etc. is unbelievable all on its own. And even if it was believed to the point she says of when the gun went off by accident, what she did after that still could not be self-defense or 2nd degree. The autopsy photos are all you need to prove that. There's no way the jury acquits. Zero chance. Odds are it will be conviction of murder 1. The best she can hope for is a mistrial and in time a life sentence.

Agreed. I don't think anyone thinks there will be acquittal in this case!

What I'm not sure of (perhaps you know?) is what is the law in AZ for 'premeditated'? Definitions vary from state to state.

Dave

 

[molly333]

See. I knew this was going to happen. The expert is referring to the disorganized crime scene as indicative of acute stress disorder, as if it shows her state of mind, rather than just a reaction of an organized criminal to a situation that is now out of control.

In other words, if I say she is an organized criminal who ran into a situational problem when the gunshot missed and then the gun jammed, he characterizes it in terms of her state of mind and concludes there is a certain irrationality shown by the messy crime scene, that is, she is not organized at all in any of this, but under a great deal of stress throughout..

He says she was in a flight or fight mode.

So now you can characterize it as a crime of passion or an incident that happened spontaneously in self defense, and was thus disorganized, instead of an organized, premeditated crime that went wrong.

IMO

 

[vikvaliant]

I wondered about that too. But the timestamps on the last photos are not separated by a consistent amount. It would be interesting to learn more about the default timer settings on that camera, though.

I would like to know that too.

When I checked out the manual for the camera there is a setting that will focus automatically and take a picture 2 seconds later. So you point at the subject, click, and then the camera will focus on the subject and take the picture 2 seconds later.

I was looking at this when I was trying to figure out how the photo in the hallway (with TA down) could have been taken.

I also believe she had the gun pointed at him for the last three photos in the shower.

5:29:12 - Dark photo of TA sitting in the shower and staring at the camera. You can only see half his face and his upper chest.

5:29:20 - Full face shot of him sitting in the shower staring at the camera with that odd look on his face. (He is still staring at the camera 8 seconds after the last photo)

5:30:30 - Photo of him sitting on the shower floor where you can only see his lower body. (He is now sitting on the shower floor for 1 minute and 18 seconds with the water running)

5:31:14 - Blurred photo of the bathroom ceiling 44 seconds after the last photo of him sitting in the shower.

I believe 5:30:30 was taken unintentionally. That was when JA was moving in to shoot him, or had just shot him.

I believe 5:31:14 was taken after the first shot, which didn't kill TA, and he started screaming and crawling out of the shower on all fours.

If you watch the police interrogation video when she gave the intruder story, she gets down on the floor and shows Flores how TA was on all fours and conscious after the intruder shot him. She gets down on her hands and knees and places her right hand on her right temple (where we know TA was shot).

I believe her intruder story had a lot of truth to it because she had to make it up on the fly after Flores proved to her that she was there.

Of course I am speculating.

 

[danzn16]

See. I knew this was going to happen. The expert is referring to the disorganized crime scene as indicative of acute stress disorder, as if it shows her state of mind, rather than just a reaction of an organized criminal to a situation that is now out of control.

In other words, if I say she is an organized criminal who ran into a situational problem when the gunshot missed and then the gun jammed, he characterizes it in terms of her state of mind and concludes there is a certain irrationality shown by the messy crime scene, that is, she is not organized at all in any of this, but under a great deal of stress throughout..

He says she was in a flight or fight mode.

So now you can characterize it as a crime of passion or an incident that happened spontaneously in self defense, and was thus disorganized, instead of an organized, premeditated crime that went wrong.

IMO

Oh my that's sickening! Glad I'm not watching it right now!!

 

[geevee]

I would like to know that too.

When I checked out the manual for the camera there is a setting that will focus automatically and take a picture 2 seconds later. So you point at the subject, click, and then the camera will focus on the subject and take the picture 2 seconds later.

I was looking at this when I was trying to figure out how the photo in the hallway (with TA down) could have been taken.

I also believe she had the gun pointed at him for the last three photos in the shower.

5:29:12 - Dark photo of TA sitting in the shower and staring at the camera. You can only see half his face and his upper chest.

5:29:20 - Full face shot of him sitting in the shower staring at the camera with that odd look on his face. (He is still staring at the camera 8 seconds after the last photo)

5:30:30 - Photo of him sitting on the shower floor where you can only see his lower body. (He is now sitting on the shower floor for 1 minute and 18 seconds with the water running)

5:31:14 - Blurred photo of the bathroom ceiling 44 seconds after the last photo of him sitting in the shower.

I believe 5:30:30 was taken unintentionally. That was when JA was moving in to shoot him, or had just shot him.

I believe 5:31:14 was taken after the first shot, which didn't kill TA, and he started screaming and crawling out of the shower on all fours.

If you watch the police interrogation video when she gave the intruder story, she gets down on the floor and shows Flores how TA was on all fours and conscious after the intruder shot him. She gets down on her hands and knees and places her right hand on her right temple (where we know TA was shot).

I believe her intruder story had a lot of truth to it because she had to make it up on the fly after Flores proved to her that she was there.

Of course I am speculating.

I also think she shot him as the 5:30:30 picture was taken, if you rotate the pic so the floor of it is horizontal, TA is slumped down more than it seemed initially, have you enlarged it and looked at the lower left corner where the shower meets the door? I swear that's flying blood.

BTW - excellent post! Good info on that type of camera.

 

[danzn16]

Does anyone know how much longer this court case is expected to go on before the jury is left to come up with the verdict?

 

[geevee]

Does anyone know how much longer this court case is expected to go on before the jury is left to come up with the verdict?

I understood rebuttal had been scheduled to start today and deliberations next Monday, with this witness taking longer than expected I would think things may be delayed a day or more.

 

[LambChop]

I understood rebuttal had been scheduled to start today and deliberations next Monday, with this witness taking longer than expected I would think things may be delayed a day or more.

Where did you hear this? It was posted earlier that there is no court on Thursday because one of the defense witnesses is not available on Thursday. There is no way rebuttal would have started today. Defense still has the DV expert to testify. jmo

 

[geevee]

Where did you hear this? It was posted earlier that there is no court on Thursday because one of the defense witnesses is not available on Thursday. There is no way rebuttal would have started today. Defense still has the DV expert to testify. jmo

Someone posted the schedule in a thread here sometime last week, except for the Thursday thing I haven't seen an update to the schedule.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

What I'm not sure of (perhaps you know?) is what is the law in AZ for 'premeditated'? Definitions vary from state to state.

Yeah, I have that. The state law is,

Criminal Code 13-1105
1. Intending or knowing that the person's conduct will cause death, the person causes the death of another person, including an unborn child, with premeditation or, as a result of causing the death of another person with premeditation, causes the death of an unborn child.

And the standard jury instructions are:
State Bar of Arizona :: Criminal Jury Instructions

The crime of first-degree premeditated murder requires proof that the defendant:
1. caused the death of another person; and
2. intended or knew that [he] [she] would cause the death of another person; and
3. acted with premeditation.
“Premeditation” means that the defendant intended to kill another human being or knew [he] [she] would kill another human being, and that after forming that intent or knowledge, reflected on the decision before killing. It is this reflection, regardless of the length of time in which it occurs, that distinguishes first-degree murder from second degree murder. An act is not done with premeditation if it is the instant effect of a sudden quarrel or heat of passion. [The time needed for reflection is not necessarily prolonged, and the space of time between the intent or knowledge to kill and the act of killing may be very short.]

 

[molly333]

Yeah, I have that. The state law is,

Criminal Code 13-1105
1. Intending or knowing that the person's conduct will cause death, the person causes the death of another person, including an unborn child, with premeditation or, as a result of causing the death of another person with premeditation, causes the death of an unborn child.

And the standard jury instructions are:
State Bar of Arizona :: Criminal Jury Instructions

The crime of first-degree premeditated murder requires proof that the defendant:
1. caused the death of another person; and
2. intended or knew that [he] [she] would cause the death of another person; and
3. acted with premeditation.
“Premeditation” means that the defendant intended to kill another human being or knew [he] [she] would kill another human being, and that after forming that intent or knowledge, reflected on the decision before killing. It is this reflection, regardless of the length of time in which it occurs, that distinguishes first-degree murder from second degree murder. An act is not done with premeditation if it is the instant effect of a sudden quarrel or heat of passion. [The time needed for reflection is not necessarily prolonged, and the space of time between the intent or knowledge to kill and the act of killing may be very short.]

Thank ycu. Do you know what this felony murder thing is that people keep talking about? They act as if it a law special to Arizona.

 

[deedee21]

Vikvalient, you are right about the look on Travises face. I see fear in his eyes. He realized something at the moment she took that picture.

 

[RealityMan]

Vikvalient, you are right about the look on Travises face. I see fear in his eyes. He realized something at the moment she took that picture.

The only problem with that theory is the very next photo, taken 70 seconds later, shows that TA has barely moved since the close-up shot of his face. I don't think he would remain in that apparently relaxed pose, with his arms on his legs, for a full 70 seconds if JA was threatening him with a weapon at any time between the last two shower photos.

 

[RealityMan]

I also think she shot him as the 5:30:30 picture was taken, if you rotate the pic so the floor of it is horizontal, TA is slumped down more than it seemed initially, have you enlarged it and looked at the lower left corner where the shower meets the door? I swear that's flying blood.

BTW - excellent post! Good info on that type of camera.

I thought that was a possibility at first, too, but I think TA would've moved in the 70 seconds between the last two shower photos, especially given that we know he tried to fight or flee after he was initially struck.

I think the first blow was struck in the 44 seconds between the last shower photo and the bathroom ceiling photo.

 

[pip]

The only problem with that theory is the very next photo, taken 70 seconds later, shows that TA has barely moved since the close-up shot of his face. I don't think he would remain in that apparently relaxed pose, with his arms on his legs, for a full 70 seconds if JA was threatening him with a weapon at any time between the last two shower photos.

Especially a knife.. lol. He would have weighed the odds and taken his chances and whooped her. If he was being threatened at this point with a weapon, which I believe he was, it was the gun. He was frozen in the situation.