Jodi Arias; the sequence of events

[Smelly Squirrel]

Asked and answered Smelly. The trajectory. Entry point and end point. His own written autopsy report. Rinse and repeat. It was a facial injury.

Not really an answer. Look at a skull diagram and tell me how it happened. There is no way to not hit the brain. Once a bullet breaches the skull, it's hitting the brain. Unless it stopped exactly at that point, but we know this bullet didn't, it kept moving and even exited the skull into the cheek. So how did it miss the brain?

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Yeah, they were talking about spatter from the knife or gun.

So they were saying no knife or gun used in the hallway.

But, I was thinking, those back wounds, they said they were like slices all in the same direction-- That he wouldn't have been moving or moving quickly and unable to defend himself any longer. Those wounds might not create spatter. So maybe they were done while he was crawling through the hallway. [I'm thinking that, HLN did not say that].

IMO

OK, you want like cast off from a knife? Hm, I didn't remember much, if any. I'd have to look again. Remember a lot of blood swipes on the walls, and blood pooling on the floor. But she cleaned the floor somewhat, maybe the walls too.

 

[molly333]

Not really an answer. Look at a skull diagram and tell me how it happened. There is no way to not hit the brain. Once a bullet breaches the skull, it's hitting the brain. Unless it stopped exactly at that point, but we know this bullet didn't, it kept moving and even exited the skull into the cheek. So how did it miss the brain?

Superficial wound. Crashes through the frontal sinus cavity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nnh_front.svg


IMO

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Superficial wound. Crashes through the frontal sinus cavity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nnh_front.svg


IMO

No, he said he said the bullet went all the way through. He'd have to be quite incompetent to miss that.

 

[molly333]

No, he said he said the bullet went all the way through. He'd have to be quite incompetent to miss that.

Yeah. Goes into the skull and enters the sinus cavity.

That's how it ends up in the opposite cheek.

It's basically just coming down the front of his face. He must have moved just as she shot.

IMO

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Alright, we're never going to agree on this. I do hope the defense puts on a pathologist to get the other view, and that Horn can respond in rebuttal.

 

[molly333]

OK, you want like cast off from a knife? Hm, I didn't remember much, if any. I'd have to look again. Remember a lot of blood swipes on the walls, and blood pooling on the floor. But she cleaned the floor somewhat, maybe the walls too.

I've never seen a comprehensive description/discussion of the blood spatter with pictures and locations.

Just bits and pieces or random pictures here and there.

I would like to see that.

Blood spatter tells the story.

 

[molly333]

Alright, we're never going to agree on this. I do hope the defense puts on a pathologist to get the other view, and that Horn can respond in rebuttal.

From the point of view of the trial, I don't think that's going to happen. Both sides seem to want to keep the details fuzzy. Defense I can understand. Prosecution not so much.

IMO

 

[vikvaliant]

I've never seen a comprehensive description/discussion of the blood spatter with pictures and locations.

Just bits and pieces or random pictures here and there.

I would like to see that.

Blood spatter tells the story.

I agree.

HLN has a good collection of evidence photos.

http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2013/01/03/jodi-arias-evidence-photos-nancy-grace-mysteries-day-4

 

[molly333]

I agree.

HLN has a good collection of evidence photos.

http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2013/01/03/jodi-arias-evidence-photos-nancy-grace-mysteries-day-4

I just heard someone say there was no blood spatter from the gunshot wound in the bathroom.

If that's true, that's more proof she shot him in the shower.

I would think even if he were dead, there would still be blood spatter from a gun shot wound.

IMO

 

[Curious Me]

Another poster earlier suggested she might have had the knife taped to her skin under the top she was wearing. I would think the gun would be too heavy to duct tape to her skin. jmo

The bathrobe pocket would be a perfect place to hide a weapon, IMO. The bathrobe is hanging right beside the shower stall.

 

[salberg7]

It doesn't really matter to the prosecution which came first. She has admitted she killed him, now the prosecution has to prove cruel & depraved for premeditation. Thus JM focusing more on the details of her trip, ie gas cans, stolen gun, overkill, etc.
Princess Di died of a slower leak from a tear in her pulmonary artery. I believe if they had rushed her to shock/trauma she could have been saved, but France's EMS system didn't work that way.

 

[twall]

I think that's been discussed in the Legal Question thread. It's murder while committing another felony. I'm confused by it myself because the indictment says the felony is burglary. They haven't discussed any burglary really.

But I think the indictment isn't the final word. The final charges presented to the jury don't necessarily have to be the ones in the indictment.

Description of Second Degree Burglary in AZ:

Second degree burglary is the act of entering or remaining unlawfully in or on a residential structure with intentions to commit theft or any other type of felony crime.

The state has to prove her intent of going to TA's home was to commit a felony, in this case murder.

 

[wilsodh]

The camera ended up at the end of the hallway when she bolted out of the bathroom with the jammed gun and camera to get the knife. Dropping it in the hallway. By shooting him once already she was now committed.

It's during this time that TA goes to the sink. I can't see TA heading to the sink to check his wound in the mirror while JA is trying to stab him to death.
.

I agree. The blood at the sink tells a story. I have a hard time rationalizing someone turning their back on their killer to look into the mirror and/or grab a towel. To my mind, this is when Jodi departed the immediate scene to fetch the knife. Travis propped himself up with wet hands on the front of the sink (diluting the blood at that location), and was somewhat bent over the sink, dripping blood from his head/face wound and/or out his nose from a busted sinus. I'm not a blood spatter expert, but it is hard to imagine that collection of focused blood drops from a chest wound. The blood was dropping down, as if from the head or down and out of the nose. A chest wound would not be positioned to drip down in that fashion. Blood from lungs could be expelled up and out during a cough, but it seems unlikely it would be dripping down so intensely.

Dave

 

[sacrablue]

Goes to sink after shot in face, sprays blood out of lord knows where while looking into mirror, JA shows up with knife, Travis sees this reflection, turns to defend himself, takes stabs to hands and chest, makes a run for it and so on.

 

[ScubaTwinn]

But I thought the ME said that no blood from the gunshot seeped from the wound or congealed, therefore, had to happen after the stab wounds? I'll try to find the link.

 

[molly333]

But I thought the ME said that no blood from the gunshot seeped from the wound or congealed, therefore, had to happen after the stab wounds? I'll try to find the link.

He admitted it could cause him to bleed from the nose and mouth, IIRC.


IMO

 

[sacrablue]

But I thought the ME said that no blood from the gunshot seeped from the wound or congealed, therefore, had to happen after the stab wounds? I'll try to find the link.

It is digusting but I think he cleared the bullets passageway of blood by coughing and sneezing or exhaling from his lungs. Thus blood spray on mirror and vanity top. imo

 

[wilsodh]

This board is moving so fast it is hard to keep up. :innocent: Someone (I think it was RealityMan) posted a while back about the position of the first bleeding photo vis-a-vis the huge blood stain on the carpet. I've puzzled about this also.

I think most of us would agree that that photo was probably taken after Travis' throat was slit. Two scenarios come to mind.

Scenario 1. Jodi had just delivered the coup de grace in the hallway. Travis was in his final death throes and was still alive for the photo. His right arm is up (fading defensive posture), blood from cut vessels immediately flows down his shoulder. Head is elevated instinctively to minimize exposure of neck to assailant. In final move to continue 'fleeing', he uses his feet to slide backward toward the bedroom onto the carpet before succumbing.

Scenario 2. Jodi delivered the coup de grace on the carpet. Travis succumbs. Jodi makes an initial attempt to move Travis toward the shower by pushing him off the carpet. The position of Travis' left foot might be consistent with having been pushed toward the shower. Perhaps she is propping his head up with her leg...

I'm struggling with both of these scenarios. In scenario 1, I'm not sure it would be possible to lift one's head with such a deep knife wound. The head is pretty heavy and intact frontal muscles are required. For scenario 2, it seems more reasonable that Jodi would have been pulling Travis to the shower by his feet to get him off the carpet. Or perhaps she pulled him by his right foot, and the left foot lagged as depicted in the photo.

Other thoughts?

Dave

 

[LambChop]

But I thought the ME said that no blood from the gunshot seeped from the wound or congealed, therefore, had to happen after the stab wounds? I'll try to find the link.

I think I remember the ME saying that the congealed blood the shell was lying on was from a chest wound or he was asked that question. Would that blood clot faster than say blood coming from your facial area?