Jodi Arias; the sequence of events

[sacrablue]

We have no clue how long he was in the shower. When I first step into the shower, I let water run over me. No one puts soap to a dry body, right?

Step in shower, wet down hair and body while adjusting temperature to suit. Sometimes with my back muscle strained, I run hot water on my back to help muscle strains and relax a bit before taking on the task of washing hair first...body second.

 

[SMK]

Nancy Grace just presented it. They showed that front face picture of him looking horrified in the shower. They had arrows to the [his] right eye. I had to look at it for a bit to see what they were talking about. If you looked directly at his pupil, it did kind of look like you could see two people standing side by side with a space in between them. Spooky.

When it's blown up on the tv screen, it's easier to see.

The person who found this was mentioned by name but was not a guest. So she just threw that out there at the end of a segment.

I, too, have always had a gut feel that she brought along one of the boyfriends to help. But, as far as I know there is no evidence of that. Were there any unidentified footprints? Or any strange bruises on his body as if he were restrained?

IMO

Yes, same exact gut feeling here - and of course if true she would have extreme motive to NOT "give up" this accomplice as it would blow the whole self-defense theory. I suppose the investigators would have told press if their were any such unid-ed prints or restraining marks (as with the Amanda Knox case which theorized a 3-on-1 attack.)

 

[molly333]

I don't think his expression is horrified at all. I see no expression. Horrified is eyes wide open and mouth open.

I just use that word to describe it.

If you put you hand over half his face, the left side of his face looks angry and horrified and the right side of his face looks betrayed and very very sad.

Right and left brain process things differently so that's often the case in pictures.

IMO

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

Nancy Grace just presented it. They showed that front face picture of him looking horrified in the shower. They had arrows to the [his] right eye. I had to look at it for a bit to see what they were talking about. If you looked directly at his pupil, it did kind of look like you could see two people standing side by side with a space in between them. Spooky.

When it's blown up on the tv screen, it's easier to see.

The person who found this was mentioned by name but was not a guest. So she just threw that out there at the end of a segment.

I, too, have always had a gut feel that she brought along one of the boyfriends to help. But, as far as I know there is no evidence of that. Were there any unidentified footprints? Or any strange bruises on his body as if he were restrained?

IMO

Is there anything about JA that makes her come across as someone who wouldn't throw another under the bus, if given the opportunity? With an accomplice, she would be able to state that she didn't carry out the murder, and was forced there against her will and that she was scared to tell the police because she feared for her life. It's in her character to protect herself before all others, so I just have a hard time imagining that she would take the fall if there is someone else to blame.

Do you think she had to have had an accomplice because you don't think she could have done this without help?

 

[molly333]

Yes, same exact gut feeling here - and of course if true she would have extreme motive to NOT "give up" this accomplice as it would blow the whole self-defense theory. I suppose the investigators would have told press if their were any such unid-ed prints or restraining marks (as with the Amanda Knox case which theorized a 3-on-1 attack.)

On the other hand, they may simply have not had an accomplice in mind. I suppose we will never know due to the defense tactic now.

There was also a lot of manipulation of the crime scene, cleaning up blood and putting water on that floor that might have erased footprints. Maybe it was done for that very reason.

IMO

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

I don't think his expression is horrified at all. I see no expression. Horrified is eyes wide open and mouth open.

I'm another who doesn't think he looks scared in the picture. I don't see fear or distress. But, I guess it's possible that that is what he was feeling. I just don't see it.

 

[molly333]

Is there anything about JA that makes her come across as someone who wouldn't throw another under the bus, if given the opportunity? With an accomplice, she would be able to state that she didn't carry out the murder, and was forced there against her will and that she was scared to tell the police because she feared for her life. It's in her character to protect herself before all others, so I just have a hard time imagining that she would take the fall if there is someone else to blame.

Do you think she had to have had an accomplice because you don't think she could have done this without help?

No. She threw her own mother under the bus lol.

But, this works for her now because of her defense.

Later, she would give someone up to negotiate her sentence, I'm sure, if that were possible.

I really think she feels that she can get off right now. She thinks she is winning her case.

No. Like I said, it's always been a gut feel. I've never had any evidence for it.

IMO

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

We have a very big clue. The time stamps.

There is a picture of him prior to getting into the shower? What's the time stamp on that one? How much time passed between him being out of the shower and the first picture we see of him in there?

There are two times when people would't be covered in soap - right as they get in, and right before they get out.

I have no clue whether or not he was really posing, and ultimately it's irrelevant to me. I am just saying that there could be legitimate reasons, other than posing for the camera, that he wasn't covered with soap.

But, yea, I didn't know there were shots of him right before he got into the shower.

 

[SMK]

Nancy Grace just presented it. They showed that front face picture of him looking horrified in the shower. They had arrows to the [his] right eye. I had to look at it for a bit to see what they were talking about. If you looked directly at his pupil, it did kind of look like you could see two people standing side by side with a space in between them. Spooky.

When it's blown up on the tv screen, it's easier to see.

The person who found this was mentioned by name but was not a guest. So she just threw that out there at the end of a segment.

I, too, have always had a gut feel that she brought along one of the boyfriends to help. But, as far as I know there is no evidence of that. Were there any unidentified footprints? Or any strange bruises on his body as if he were restrained?

IMO

Yes, also this:



And I do not understand this business about duct tape or how it might have been a motive?:waitasec:

(had to transpose this as it is from an exlusive it [appears that] the prosecution missed quite a bit of potential evidence including a possible motive- the duct tape around Travis’s right arm. Was it the final straw that made Jodi Arias snap [during her secret photo shoot of TA in shower}

 

[molly333]

That picture haunts me.

I know it haunts a lot of people on here.

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

There was also a lot of manipulation of the crime scene, cleaning up blood and putting water on that floor that might have erased footprints. Maybe it was done for that very reason.

IMO

There was one faint shoe imprint left on the floor, actually. The police think she left it there, but she didn't track blood out of the house. Maybe she cleaned up the scene, missed part of the shoe print and then took her shoes off to walk out of the house. She definitely had to clean herself up some, though, because she didn't track blood out of the house and she didn't leave blood on the doorknob.

 

[molly333]

There is a picture of him prior to getting into the shower? What's the time stamp on that one? How much time passed between him being out of the shower and the first picture we see of him in there?

There are two times when people would't be covered in soap - right as they get in, and right before they get out.

I have no clue whether or not he was really posing, and ultimately it's irrelevant to me. I am just saying that there could be legitimate reasons, other than posing for the camera, that he wasn't covered with soap.

But, yea, I didn't know there were shots of him right before he got into the shower.

Have you looked at the pictures?

I can't remember the exact time now, so I don't want to say it, but I think it was more than ten minutes between the first shower picture and the last one.

It's not irrelevant to me because I think she was holding a weapon on him during that session.

IMO

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

Yes, also this:



And I do not understand this business about duct tape or how it might have been a motive?:waitasec:

That wasn't duct tape it was some kind of monitor he wears.

 

[SMK]

That wasn't duct tape it was some kind of monitor he wears.

Oh, thanks, had just asked again. OK. Really had me puzzled. thanks again:facepalm:

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

That picture haunts me.

I know it haunts a lot of people on here.

The picture is haunting because it was taken seconds before he had to fight for his life. It's rare that that moment is captured on film. It leaves people to speculate about what he was thinking and wonder if, in that moment, he knew he was about to die, etc. We project our emotions onto the picture and we see everything that he feel he must have felt.

jmo

 

[RealityMan]

There isn't a difference. Something is either incapacitating or it isn't. If the gunshot had been incapacitating, Travis would have fallen down. If it hadn't been, then the damage that sets in as a result would be what eventually incapacitates him, and eventually can be seconds later. But if he doesn't go down the instant he receives the gun shot, then the gun shot was not incapacitating.

Same thing with the stab wounds. The stab wound was not incapacitating. The bleeding out cause the incapacitating.

Maybe that's why he had trouble answering it.

The ME testified that almost all of the wounds that TA suffered, even the cluster of stabs to his back, would have been incapacitating eventually. He also testified that, out of the three most serious injuries that TA suffered, the heart wound was the least likely to be immediately incapacitating. The ME wavered in his testimony when he was asked how quickly TA would've been incapacitated by the gunshot wound.

This is a critical issue in terms of the sequence because we know TA was bleeding from his neck at the end of the hallway just one minute and 46 seconds after the last shower photo.

I believe it is obvious why the ME was unwilling to say with certainty that TA would have been immediately incapacitated: it is well known that a bullet through the frontal lobe is the least likely of all bullet wounds to the brain to cause someone to be immediately incapacitated and unable to function for one minute and 46 seconds.

So, yes, there is a difference between incapacitating and immediately incapacitating.

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

Have you looked at the pictures?

I can't remember the exact time now, so I don't want to say it, but I think it was more than ten minutes between the first shower picture and the last one.

It's not irrelevant to me because I think she was holding a weapon on him during that session.

IMO

If her intent was to kill him with a gun, do you think she brought the knife along with her or left to get it?

ETA: I did look at the pictures, but I was wondering if there were any prior to him getting in. Again, it's possible that it was a posed session. Since I don't know, and there is no real evidence to point either way, imo, it becomes irrelevant to me. But, yea, if you are theorizing that she had the gun on him the whole time, then it would make sense that there was no soap and that's why.

 

[SMK]

Is there anything about JA that makes her come across as someone who wouldn't throw another under the bus, if given the opportunity? With an accomplice, she would be able to state that she didn't carry out the murder, and was forced there against her will and that she was scared to tell the police because she feared for her life. It's in her character to protect herself before all others, so I just have a hard time imagining that she would take the fall if there is someone else to blame.

Do you think she had to have had an accomplice because you don't think she could have done this without help?

To my thinking, an accomplice would make her look diabolically pre-meditating, and would point to murder one and death penalty as just punishment. For me, and likely others, it would throw the whole self-defense idea out the window....

Yes, she could lie but the accomplice could counter her and her lies would not be believable. NOT saying she had an accomplice, just wondering why I have always had an intuitive sense of this - and with her new scenario of victimhood, she is not going to say anything. Just grist for the mill.

 

[Ammonitida]

Travis was likely hit by a jacketed hollow-point bullet based on my understanding. Nothing about the bullet deformation and trajectory can rule it out. As a 25. auto, they are lower velocity and velocity is key to having it expand like a mushroom. This often does not happen with 25 caliber ammunition. Another point is that the bullet almost immediately struck bone which likely clogged the hollowed cavity, making it behave like a traditional FMJ. There is a study that supports this.

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/reloading/76612-study-bullets-dont-expand-if-striking-bone.html

I've found some information that could actually prove it. Based on my searches, it seems that Winchester only produces FMJ 25 auto ammunition with a weight of 50 grains. All winchester "expanding points" (hollow point) seem to be 45 grain. The bullet that struck Travis weighed 44 grains, consistent with 25 auto expanding points made by Winchester. Further, the ME testified to finding no evidence for bullet fragmentation in his skull and this would suggest that the weight of the bullet after impact should be very similar to the weight before impact.

I've tried comparing shell casings but it's inconclusive (picture too dark and shadowed). Perhaps someone else would like to "expand" on this?

 

[molly333]

There was one faint shoe imprint left on the floor, actually. The police think she left it there, but she didn't track blood out of the house. Maybe she cleaned up the scene, missed part of the shoe print and then took her shoes off to walk out of the house. She definitely had to clean herself up some, though, because she didn't track blood out of the house and she didn't leave blood on the doorknob.

I've always wondered how she managed that. I've tried to figure out how does she step out of all that blood in the hallway and leave no tracks. I tried to think how I would do it, and it's not easy. She has socks on in the last picture so she had to put a clean shoe on one foot, step over, put clean shoe on other foot before you put it down.

well, you get the picture lol. No bloody footprints anywhere on the rug in the bedroom.

Maybe someone carried her out of there? Or handed her the shoes? Little things like that bother me.

IMO