Jodi Arias; the sequence of events

[pip]

You're misapplying the concept of "organized." It's a concept designed to help classify scenes, it's not meant to force fit a scene into a simple box as either or.

Sometimes chit just falls apart despite all the organization. Travis was harder to kill than she had planned. It became disorganized d/t this. Afterwards, she regrouped and organization resumed.

 

[RealityMan]

I'm still undecided about when the throat cut occurred. I'm thinking it may have been after the foot photo because the neck is still seemingly intact by the way it's lifted. Though it's possible Jodi is supporting or lifting it somehow, so I don't think we can be sure.

I think the last bleeding photo also suggests that JA has not slashed TA's neck yet. I believe the neck slash cut nearly to TA's spine, correct? In that case, I don't think TA would've had any muscles in his neck to support his head on his own. If TA's neck was slashed, I think we would've seen TA's head dangling back and into the last photo instead of apparently held upwards and out of it.

I agree that the first bleeding photo suggests that JA may be propping his head up against her foot. But I think the last photo shows that TA is holding his head up on his own.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

I do agree the neck cut more likely happened after the foot photo (disagreeing with JM on this), but I would say it's less likely TA is holding himself up in that last one. He'd have to be doing a very high sit-up, which would be awkward and take a lot of energy. That one looks more like Jodi is holding or pulling him upwards with his arms.

 

[SMK]

What kind of woman could slash someone's throat?

I think a man must have been there, too.

IMO

1. That thought went through my mind when I saw the crime scene photos. This would not make her any less guilty, but it is a thought.
   
2. I can think of several cases where a female has had a male accomplice - in some cases the male did all the killing - and the female still got a life sentence. Pamela Smart, and 2 other cases I recall well.
   
3. On the other hand, police found no evidence of a second person - perhaps they didn't look hard enough.
   
4. An accomplice in my opinion would make Jodi seem MORE premeditating and this person's talk would totally blow Self Defense out of the water. She would have every reason to remain mum , at least for now.

 

[sacrablue]

I do not think major neck support muscles were cut.

 

[sacrablue]

It is also strange that the attacker knew just where to cut the neck where the Carotid Artery is most vulnerable.

 

[LambChop]

Sometimes chit just falls apart despite all the organization. Travis was harder to kill than she had planned. It became disorganized d/t this. Afterwards, she regrouped and organization resumed.

What is disorganized at the crime scene? Jodi was able to get everything out of there that would point to her, except things she could not control such as her blood and hair. Everything else was removed. That took conscious thought to do that and not someone in a fog. She also managed to not trail blood throughout the house while she cleaned up also not from any fog she was in at the time. And why, oh why did she have to put him back in the shower when he had already showered if she claims she never cut her hand. She was bleeding and knew they would find her blood on his body so that was a conscious effort on her part. Deleted pictures after the murder. It appears she washed off and cleaned up where she thought her blood was with the towel that was in the washer. Again, this appears organized. The camera in the washer could have been deliberate or an accident while she was gathering up items to throw into the washer. So what I see is someone who is very organized as a first timer. It's not as if you can take classes on how to kill someone on your first strike. jmo

 

[Whisperer]

Awesome, thanks Dave. Even though it makes sense to me that it's her left foot in the photo based on some part of her having to trigger the camera in that photo, I can be convinced otherwise if the camera truly could've snapped such a photo from the ground as a delayed reaction to JA bumping the camera with get right foot AND especially if the stripe on her jeans was positively only on the outside of her pant leg. I'm still not sure whether the angle makes sense and is consistent between the last two photos, which still makes me wonder if it was on the ground.

Do we know for sure that that us actually a stripe on her pant leg and not some artifact of the photo enhancement? I don't think a stripe is visible at all in the original photos.Thanks again for the reconstruction though.

And how about one more: can you depict where you think the camera is in the last bleeding shot? It would be interesting to try to figure out how that last photo was triggered.

In some photos, we can a better pic. Others are clipped, etc.

She appears to be wearing sweat/active pants and they are stripped and there is clearly a zipper. So that has to be her right foot. The camera had to be right next to her right foot. She must have just kicked it in her frenzy.

 

[weather_lady]

I think his neck wound bled out on the carpet and in the picture she is pulling him away from the carpet and back towards the bathroom maybe?? He is clearly on the tile and not the carpet.

I concur! I think he was on his hands and knees when his throat was slit (at the end of the hallway on the left-hand side (if you're standing in the bedroom) where the huge, dark puddle of blood is -- the one that is isolated and shows no "drag marks" or "walkthrough footprints" through it. I've seen pictures of the carpet and padding pulled back, and this puddle saturated all the way through to the subfloor. The blood on the left-hand side, the stain that extends toward the hallway with footprints through it, did not go that deep. So my thought is that TA's throat was cut on the left-hand side. I think immediately after cutting his throat, JA rolled him over to the right-side of the hallway so he'd be on his back, which deposited blood from his neck and back wounds onto the carpet on that side, but only for a moment. Then JA grabbed his ankles and she began to drag him back toward the bathroom, past the camera which had been kicked to the side at the end of the hallway by one or both of them when TA tried to escape from the bathroom and down the hallway.

The ME testified that TA would have remained conscious for a few seconds after his throat was cut, and that it was possible that he was raising his arm and head of his own volition in the "foot and bloody shoulder" photo, in one last, futile attempt to defend himself. I think JA saw that he was moving and/or making gurgling noises, dropped his feet, and ran around to his head to see if she needed to inflict another blow to subdue him, hitting the camera with her foot and snapping the accidental photo. (In the alternative, she had dragged him partway, he was already unconscious, and the raised head and arm we see is the result of JA using her hands and left foot/shin to raise and reposition TA in the hallway).

Once she was satisfied that TA wasn't going to get up again, the dragging resumed, and the final "bloody baseboard" photo was either taken as she continued to drag him down the hall, or as JA picked up the camera to move it out of the way after getting TA all the way back to the bathroom (and returning to the bedroom, possibly for the gun). (That last photo looks like it was taken at a level higher than the floor to me, which is why I speculate that it might have been taken as the camera was being picked up... I can see the object in the top left corner being part of TA's body, or part of JA's bloody hands/clothing. I've even wondered if part of what I'm seeing is the blade of the knife in her hand, but I confess, I'm pretty stumped and can't make out anything conclusive.)

 

[weather_lady]

I think his neck wound bled out on the carpet and in the picture she is pulling him away from the carpet and back towards the bathroom maybe?? He is clearly on the tile and not the carpet.

I concur! I think he was on his hands and knees when his throat was slit (at the end of the hallway on the left-hand side (if you're standing in the bedroom) where the huge, dark puddle of blood is -- the one that is isolated and shows no "drag marks" or "walkthrough footprints" through it. I've seen pictures of the carpet and padding pulled back, and this puddle saturated all the way through to the subfloor. The blood on the left-hand side, the stain that extends toward the hallway with footprints through it, did not go that deep. So my thought is that TA's throat was cut on the left-hand side. I think immediately after cutting his throat, JA rolled him over to the right-side of the hallway so he'd be on his back, which deposited more blood from his neck and back wounds onto that side, but only for a moment. Then JA grabbed his ankles and she began to drag him back toward the bathroom, past the camera which had been kicked to the side at the end of the hallway by one or both of them when TA tried to escape from the bathroom and down the hallway.

The ME testified that TA would have remained conscious for a few seconds after his throat was cut, and that it was possible that he was raising his arm and head of his own volition in the "foot and bloody shoulder" photo, in one last, futile attempt to defend himself. I think JA saw that he was moving and/or making gurgling noises, dropped his feet, and ran around to his head to see if she needed to inflict another blow to subdue him, hitting the camera with her foot and snapping the accidental photo. (In the alternative, she had dragged him partway, he was already unconscious, and the raised head and arm we see is the result of JA using her hands and left foot/shin to raise and reposition TA in the hallway).

Once she was satisfied that TA wasn't going to get up again, the dragging resumed, and the final "bloody baseboard" photo was either taken as she continued to drag him down the hall, or as JA picked up the camera to move it out of the way after getting TA all the way back to the bathroom (and returning to the bedroom, possibly for the gun). (That last photo looks like it was taken at a level higher than the floor to me, which is why I speculate that it might have been taken as the camera was being picked up...)

 

[Captain86]

There is no way to know if or whether the knife was from TA's house or not. It wasn't found.

Yes, we do know that the knife did not come from his house. All knives in his house are accounted for and they don't match the injuries on the body.

 

[LambChop]

Yes, we do know that the knife did not come from his house. All knives in his house are accounted for and they don't match the injuries on the body.

I'd love to know if those knives they found in the trunk of her car would match those injuries. If ever there was an argument about her bringing both a knife and a gun with her look at what they found in her rental car before she was arrested. Two knives and a gun.

The knives appeared to be her "spoons". jmo

 

[alwaysonmymind]

She may have stolen a knife along the way to kill Travis.

She made several stops.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[nickster]

Yes, we do know that the knife did not come from his house. All knives in his house are accounted for and they don't match the injuries on the body.

I think the knife she used came from where she worked. A really sharp professional grade butcher knife. They are usually much sharper than ones used in a home. The reason I say this, I worked for a vet, when he would test for rabies, only the head would be sent. The vet was using a scalpel to cut through, and it took a couple minutes to get through all the ligaments, veins ,etc not as quick as people think. JA is a monster. I pray she gets the death penalty.

 

[Ammonitida]

I think the last bleeding photo also suggests that JA has not slashed TA's neck yet. I believe the neck slash cut nearly to TA's spine, correct? In that case, I don't think TA would've had any muscles in his neck to support his head on his own. If TA's neck was slashed, I think we would've seen TA's head dangling back and into the last photo instead of apparently held upwards and out of it.

I agree that the first bleeding photo suggests that JA may be propping his head up against her foot. But I think the last photo shows that TA is holding his head up on his own.

Disagree completely.

His head is resting on her leg. He is clearly incapacitated in that photo. Note the limpness of his right foot. That's not the foot of a conscious man. It's what you would see in a corpse. A conscious man struggling for his life would have his feet more pointed toward the ceiling (try it out yourself) and not to the extreme sides like seen in that photo. He's dead there and she, in her adrenaline state, tried briefly to turn him around.

 

[wilsodh]

The foot picture is taken at the end of the hallway right next to the carpet. See the attachment below and notice the matching tile pattern in the two pictures.

Here's what I put together yesterday. I think this is the match, as the tile grouting matches in addition to the tile marbling. In the comparison you found, the tile grouting does not match.

Here I've compared two scenarios: one in which the foot in the photo is Jodi's right foot (state's scenario) and one in which the foot is her left foot (potential for knocking the camera with her right foot).

Btw, I think I'm in 'right' camp....

Dave

 

[pip]

Here's what I put together yesterday. I think this is the match, as the tile grouting matches in addition to the tile marbling. In the comparison you found, the tile grouting does not match.

Here I've compared two scenarios: one in which the foot in the photo is Jodi's right foot (state's scenario) and one in which the foot is her left foot (potential for knocking the camera with her right foot).

Btw, I think I'm in 'right' camp....

Dave

If there is already blood on 3 rows of tiles towards the carpet and on the carpet itself, how does he end up away from the carpet towards the bathroom again in this photo? She must be moving him. Which means his neck must be slashed already, in my mind. And I agree, it is her right foot in the pic. Looks like a tile match to me for that particular 'marbling' too.

 

[Captain86]

How (or can you) account for the angle of the heart knife wound? She pretty much had to stab him with the same general motion she's now using to drink water in court (elbow outward and in line with her wrist) and the knife in her left hand and blade turned sideways, as it entered nearly horizontally betweem two ribs (at least i think it did, might have to see if I can find a pic of the wound itself).

That's my main reason for why she couldn't stab him there when he was in the shower. But the wall directly behind the shower door has blood on it, and the inside door edge itself is damaged by what looks like a metal implement, so at the least scuffling (or activity) occurred right in front of the shower stall with the door open as well as closed.

Which chest wound are you discussing here? The one the hit the Vena Cave is virtually straight in at an oblique angle (lower in the front than the back). I guess she could have stabbed him with her arm in the position that she has been drinking with, but why? A straight line stab would be the quickest and most powerful (hip to the 3rd-4th intercostal area with body weight behind it). The position you suggest would leave her in a backhand position with only the Triceps to produce the force. This wound went through the Costochondral Joint, so it would take a significant force.

That stab wound would not have happened in the shower. She would have had to have leaned into the shower across him to get to the left 3rd-4th intercostal space or the the wound would have traveled medial to lateral and superior to inferior. The path of this would is inferior to superior.

 

[wilsodh]

Disagree completely.

His head is resting on her leg. He is clearly incapacitated in that photo. Note the limpness of his right foot. That's not the foot of a conscious man. It's what you would see in a corpse. A conscious man struggling for his life would have his feet more pointed toward the ceiling (try it out yourself) and not to the extreme sides like seen in that photo. He's dead there and she, in her adrenaline state, tried briefly to turn him around.

Interesting perspective. For me, what argues against Travis being a corpse at this point (confining the discussion only to the photo) is that there does not appear to be sufficient support for his head. I attach the fullest view of his head that I've come across. Considering the weight of a head, the angle of his head, and the lack of support under the center of gravity, it looks to me like he is lifting his head on his own.

Dave

 

[pip]

Interesting perspective. For me, what argues against Travis being a corpse at this point is that there does not appear to be sufficient support for his head. I attach the fullest view of his head that I've come across. Considering the weight of a head, the angle of his head, and the lack of support under the center of gravity, it looks to me like he is lifting his head on his own.

Dave

Unless she has both his left and right arm and she is pulling his shoulders up to begin to spin him around head first towards the bathroom and his head is just hanging there. His cervical spine is intact.