Joel Rifkin's thoughts on LISK

[The Nomad]

The GB4 were neatly done, I'd say he was well-polished by then.

100% agree with this part - this isn't his first kill site, and he's very good at covering his tracks (although this could be down the incompetence of the LE). I'm just not buying that the Manorville killings are related to the GB4, it's a complete change of methodology and discarding of the bodies from scattering to close together. JMO of course, and probably not the right thread.

 

[NY Ranger Fan]

I can think of one reason why a killer might stop dismembering bodies. What if the killer(s) had to leave the place in which he committed murders and did not live alone? Or what if he lived in such close proximity to others that dismemberment and placement in smaller bags seemed a better option to not be caught? What if by the time the GB4 and perhaps others's remains found along Long Island's south shore were murdered and dumped, the killer(s) had a place in which carrying whole human bodies to a transport vehicle was no longer a risk regarding discovery?

I cannot rule out in my mind any possible scenario with respect to how many killers there were/are, whether LISK(s) are or are not still operating but found a new and undiscovered dump site, whether LISK(s) moved and is operating some place else not yet discovered or that LISK(s) is/are dead, in prison for something else, too ill/disabled to continue, or is/are on a rare hiatus.

Killers like Rifkin and Dahmer killed and dismembered where they lived. Rifkin had other people living in the house and both killers held onto remains. Sloppy, sloppy! Both have never taken a course in SK101.

Quite possible the killer(s) have moved onto a better site that may never be detected. Maybe a chum-grinder on a fishing boat if they have access? Maybe a easy and secluded place to dig down 3 feet and not have an animal dig it up.

As for the dormancy angle, Ridgway went a while between sprees, he had a new wife. Rader had a family to raise that was more important to him than killing. This is how many go undetected, they are often family men and blend in with everyone else.

There is not one of us here that has not mentally thought about how to perform a perfect crime of some sort. Be it a bank robbery or a murder, we all have thought about it. Men who kill their wives usually are caught... scratch that idea! Those who kill a complete stranger are more liable to get away with it.

 

[hot cawfeee]

I guess JR forgot all about Jack the Ripper another JR as it were.
Does anyone think if Joel was active now in this age of technology he would have killed more women ? Would he have had the patience to scroll thru Craigslist or Backpage or another site for women ?

 

[dc20015]

Bundy decapitated several victims early on then when he left the Pacific NW I don't think he did it again that we know of. He actually became more careless later on until Florida where he was a total hot mess.


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[Brainstormer]

Someone needs to look into the womens drug of choice because whoever it is is very angry with prostitutes they are connected in some way to a prostitute son of one most likely and their drug of choice is probably similar to whomever he is connected to.

 

[Barbie619]

Has there ever been a SK who's gone from sadism/butchering (as seen with the Manorville killings), scattering around the parts, to less grotesque - asphyxiation (as seen with GB4) and keeping the bodies together as trophies? Genuinely interested as I'm inclined to think it'd go the opposite way when the killer gets more confident / needs a bigger thrill to satisfy his addiction.

Joel Rifkin. He went from dismembering his victims to just dropping whole bodies. He didn't have a favorite dumping site per se, but he did like watery locations for disposal.

 

[Barbie619]

I guess JR forgot all about Jack the Ripper another JR as it were.
Does anyone think if Joel was active now in this age of technology he would have killed more women ? Would he have had the patience to scroll thru Craigslist or Backpage or another site for women ?

Excellent point! Joe lRifkin in today's world.

I believe he would still have gotten caught because he was sloppy. :thinking:

 

[NY Ranger Fan]

Joel Rifkin. He went from dismembering his victims to just dropping whole bodies. He didn't have a favorite dumping site per se, but he did like watery locations for disposal.

Rifkin was smart enough to mix things up and not really have one signature that could be focused on.

 

[rer1972]

Serial killers study other serial killers, it may be a mutual admiration thing. They are also somewhat of celebrities in jail. I recall being told a story by a guard in the Nassau County lock up, Rifkin was having an argument with Colin Ferguson about who killed more, Ferguson's come back was they Rifkin may have killed more, but they were all women.

Back to the celebrity thing, these inmates may be shunned by other inmates but they are immensely popular with the outside world. Especially with women. I saw an article on the BTK killer, he got more mail than anyone else he was locked up with. Serial killers may be misfits on the outside, but they do revel in their fan base.

Rifkin would be the first guy I would talk with on the LISK case. I don't know if Ridgway was approached for his input. Most of these guys are deep down cut out of the same bolt of cloth.

Have just got into studying LISK, and the similarities with Rifkin as far as the type of victims, the violent nature of the killings, and the general geographic location is striking. Most definitely seems LISK learned from Rifkin. In fact looking at the time periods makes me theorize that LISK was at an impressionable age when the the end of Rifkin's crimes were in the media. Maybe putting LISK at about late teens to early twenties. I imagine there would have been some build up to actually go through with the first killing, and I think he would have been in his early twenties to late twenties by then. I'd want to put his age at this point in his forties.

Just some thoughts as I drilled through so much information.


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[rer1972]

Rifkin was smart enough to mix things up and not really have one signature that could be focused on.

It might also be partly losing interest in a specific idea. Such as fixation on what it would be like to decapitate, but moving onto other things when that is no longer an interest. Maybe LISK only conducts the "butchering" because he thinks it throws off law enforcement. I suspect as Rifkn, LISK dehumanizes these women so the task of disposal is just a task. The gratification comes in the actual killing itself. Although there is also likely some gratification in getting away with it after the fact.


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[DaisyChains]

I agree that both are similar. Rifkin said he started leaving whole bodies bc leaving dismembered remains about essentially is leaving more crime scenes about to be discovered. I however don't think LISK studied Rifkin's disposal methods as he would have learned from Rifkin that as long as your license plate is registered and up to date the better route is non dismemberment and disposal in a weighted vessel in water. Instead LISK presumably started out dismembering.

It is rich Rifkin claiming LISK is not an intelligent SK given that Rifkin got caught cruising around with poor Tiffany's dead body in his car and a dud of a license plate. I don't think he wanted to get caught. I think he had a false sense of security and superiority at that point in his lengthy killing spree. He still apparently has a superiority complex.

What interests me most is that LISK stopped dismembering around the time backpage/Craigslist were becoming popular for more discreet prostitution rather than picking up street walkers.

Was the change of LISKs disposal MO because:

A.) Asian Doe had laid undisturbed the longest of all of his remains he had cast about and he figured this avenue was better(as Rifkin also began to discover)?

B) LISK was more anonymous to the victims he met from online sources (bc he was not necessarily seen with those victims last or well known to them) and felt safe even if they were identified?

Questions that run through my head often.

 

[maddalena1]

I agree that both are similar. Rifkin said he started leaving whole bodies bc leaving dismembered remains about essentially is leaving more crime scenes about to be discovered. I however don't think LISK studied Rifkin's disposal methods as he would have learned from Rifkin that as long as your license plate is registered and up to date the better route is non dismemberment and disposal in a weighted vessel in water. Instead LISK presumably started out dismembering.

It is rich Rifkin claiming LISK is not an intelligent SK given that Rifkin got caught cruising around with poor Tiffany's dead body in his car and a dud of a license plate. I don't think he wanted to get caught. I think he had a false sense of security and superiority at that point in his lengthy killing spree. He still apparently has a superiority complex.

What interests me most is that LISK stopped dismembering around the time backpage/Craigslist were becoming popular for more discreet prostitution rather than picking up street walkers.

Was the change of LISKs disposal MO because:

A.) Asian Doe had laid undisturbed the longest of all of his remains he had cast about and he figured this avenue was better(as Rifkin also began to discover)?

B) LISK was more anonymous to the victims he met from online sources (bc he was not necessarily seen with those victims last or well known to them) and felt safe even if they were identified?

Questions that run through my head often.

I was just wondering the same thing about the street walkers being dismembered versus the online sex workers not. I think it's one killer. I also think the proximity of the courthouses to the dump site is relevant to lisk.

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[JJBONES]

What if LISK was someone who studied Rifkin because he was in law enforcement. Perhaps he tried to dispose of the bodies in similar manner so that Rifkin would be blamed or a copycat of Rifkin. Wasn't the first victim found in 1996? Rifkin was arrested in 1993, so maybe the killer thought butchering the victims would place first suspicion on Rifkin if the bodies were decomposed enough. Or the killer was someone in law enforcement who became familiar with the Rifkin case and knew the police would see it as copycat killing. Just some random thoughts.

 

[Sherlockknows]

​I find this absolutely fascinating, and potentially the most accurate profiling of LISK. His Statement "America breeds serial killers, You don't see any in Europe", is evident he resents some circumstances perhaps of his upbringing particularly here in "America", something or somethings happened to him here that he feels doesn't happen to children in Europe, likely pertaining heavily to differences in schooling, Its apparent he feels victimized, probably as a means of self justification. He also speculated that LISK would share similar circumstances, growing up lonely in the suburbs (perhaps an only child? Likely little to no EMOTIONAL attachments to biological parents), being ridiculed (likely by parent, teacher or other prominent adult figures and children alike) and dealing with anger, This is likely very accurate. He also describes a motivation for committing murder particularly against estranged females as a primitive urge, this is very important! It implicates a revert in societal Psychology, somewhere in his life he reverted back to a more instinctual psychology, this allows him to not value human life, just as a lion doesn't sympathize with its prey. This revert in psychology is likely due to lack of any emotional attachments. This also indicates an unpredictability to the suspect profile, due to lack of specific personal motivation. I think Rifkin is likely very accurate, If LISK is ever caught, he will likely share many life experiences with Rifkin.

Israel Keyes in his mad ramblings went on about America too. Daddy never thought Rifkin was good enough. He treated women the same way. Maybe he has been caught already. Bitrof.


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[DaisyChains]

Ive wondered these same things as well.

Rifkin wasn't the only LISK in the 90's. There was also Shulman (killing spree spanning 1991-1996). His own brother helped him dispose of the bodies. Crazy case:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Shulman_(serial_killer)

its very possible LISK is just another landscaper or postal worker. I've wondered if he works in some sort of state transit officer position. who knows. he could be anyone. most likely a white middle aged male though and reasonable IQ b/c he is somewhat organized.

 

[Really?]

Israel Keyes in his mad ramblings went on about America too. Daddy never thought Rifkin was good enough. He treated women the same way. Maybe he has been caught already. Bitrof.


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Yes, thank you.....Bittfolf has more than 3 under his belt........moo

 

[DaisyChains]

JUst adding to the thread that there also was a killer on/near LI from 1996-1998.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kendall_Francois

http://murderpedia.org/male.F/f/francois-kendall.htm

He lived with his parents. Nickname was stinky.

None of these serial killers have ended up being fancy folks. Not Rifkin, not Shulman,not Francois.

One thing is for sure - there's far too many of them!

 

[Sherlockknows]

JUst adding to the thread that there also was a killer on/near LI from 1996-1998.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kendall_Francois

http://murderpedia.org/male.F/f/francois-kendall.htm

He lived with his parents. Nickname was stinky.

None of these serial killers have ended up being fancy folks. Not Rifkin, not Shulman,not Francois.

One thing is for sure - there's far too many of them!

He got HIV from one of his victims. Good


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[DQN]

He got HIV from one of his victims. Good


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Kendall Francois lived in Poughkeepsie, NY he was a simpleton, he didn't have to leave the area to kill. Poughkeepsie is about 120 miles from Suffolk County. His dumping ground was his attic.

One other general tid bit, there are no cars allowed on Fire Island. You have to take Ferries there or your boat. There are water taxis that move you from town to town, if you don't want to walk.

 

[Sherlockknows]

Kendall Francois lived in Poughkeepsie, NY he was a simpleton, he didn't have to leave the area to kill. Poughkeepsie is about 120 miles from Suffolk County. His dumping ground was his attic.

One other general tid bit, there are no cars allowed on Fire Island. You have to take Ferries there or your boat. There are water taxis that move you from town to town, if you don't want to walk.

Maybe someone has a water Taxi....


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