John Fernie

[Mama2JML]

If you take what he said at face value. If I were called over to a friends house to support them in a crisis, I would immediately go inside the house. I would not be creeping around outside of the house looking through glass doors and reading notes through them. Unless the RN was right beside that door I don't see how he could have read it anyway. So, before he supposedly read it through the door, did he even know there was a RN? He had to read that tiny writing through the door to find out what was going on? There is something not at all right about that.

According to JF's testimony, he arrived @ the back of the house and observed the paper through a glass, patio door. I would assume the door he reported to be locked was the door opposite the spiral staircase & adjacent to the study:

This may be the same location JR is said to have knelt down & read the RN?...

I don't really have any suspicions about the truthfulness of JF's testimony, although, I haven't (yet) read the entire transcript. JF is not a case 'player' that had drawn my interest until now.

 

[borndem]

This is my first post, so I'll start by saying hello. You don't know me, but over the many years I've been lurking here your names, most of them, and online "voices" have become familiar and fond. Next, thank you so much for all your work and passion for JonBenet and this case. You have taught me a lot, given me much to ponder and research, made me laugh out loud, and provided companionship in Ramseyland, thus also helping to preserve the sanity of friends and family who are not obsessed with this case.

Why start posting now? I'm not sure, but maybe this: My intuition is strong, and one night when I was reading here, out of nowhere a voice in my head said, "There's going to be a break in the case." Two days later came the news that the GJ had indeed indicted both John and Patsy. It was like being addressed by the case, somehow. If only intuition could tell me what really happened that night.

On topic, I reread John Fernie's statement lately and can confirm that he said he came in the back way, by the garage, walked around to the patio door by the kitchen, where he usually entered, and saw the note through the window of that door. That always sounded very odd to me. He would have been reading the first few lines of the note at 6:00 AM, upside down, through the door - AND through the screen door.

We think Patsy used the phone in the alcove between the kitchen and the door and that John was nearby. Maybe he spread the pages out close to the light coming through the window to see them better - ? That would make Fernie's story more plausible, but why not just turn on a light, hm? The Rams' story about John reading the note on the floor may not even be true. Maybe he just set the pages there. But Fernie's story is likely true. Maybe he was just explaining, or remembering, why he walked around to the front instead of coming in the usual way. If he had something to hide, why would he have called attention to himself with such a strange story?

I'll find the link to Fernie's statement + post it shortly.

.........
Testimony of John Fernie (in Colorado vs. Thomas C. Miller)

http://www.acandyrose.com/06132001fernietestimony.htm

:welcome5:


Meara!!


:websleuther::thewave::websleuther:

We're glad to have you with us!!
​

 

[BOESP]

Iirc, Patsy first stated she found the ransom note on the spiral staircase. I took this to mean on one of the steps or rung. Then John states he read the note as it lay across the floor, where John Fernie also saw it through the door glass.

Which is the correct original location of the ransom note?

 

[Chelly]

PR "found " the note on the stairs. She picked it up, read some or all of it, passed it to JR. He claims he put note on the floor to read it (which seems odd, imo). Fernie seems to substantiate JR's claim on placement of the note.

 

[BOESP]

Iirc, Patsy came down to fix coffee and found the note on a lower step on that first trip downstairs. She said she screamed for John. Didn't she also state she ran back up the stairs at that point, before John came running and retrieved the note?

It just seems odd that neither one's finger prints were on the note although I know that is not impossible, especially for John if he just finished showering as he said. Something is just not jiving with the reading of the ransom note. Guess I'm over-thinking things.

 

[Anyhoo]

Iirc, Patsy came down to fix coffee and found the note on a lower step on that first trip downstairs. She said she screamed for John. Didn't she also state she ran back up the stairs at that point, before John came running and retrieved the note?

It just seems odd that neither one's finger prints were on the note although I know that is not impossible, especially for John if he just finished showering as he said. Something is just not jiving with the reading of the ransom note. Guess I'm over-thinking things.

I don't think you are over-thinking at all. No fingerprints were found on the RN even though supposedly both PR and JR picked them up, moved them from the stairs to the floor, etc. And yet investigators who touched it afterwards easily left prints and they were perplexed why no other prints were found. I too find it odd .

 

[gramcracker]

cynic that I am, neither one's prints are on the RN because they didn't read it after discovering it on the stairs. having created it/written it, they already knew what it said. it was a prop/set decoration

 

[CircuitGuy]

[JR] claims he put note on the floor to read it (which seems odd, imo). Fernie seems to substantiate JR's claim on placement of the note.

Is JR farsighted?

 

[Meara]

Thank you, Borndem and fellow greeters, for the wonderful welcome!

Just some thoughts...
We don't know that the note was ever on the stairs at all, only that Patsy said it was. And that was probably fiction. Steve Thomas and other detectives IIRC said they put pages on one tread + tried to step over them to the tread below, as Patsy described, and found it was nearly impossible to do without taking a serious fall. But not only did Patsy say she stepped over them on the way down, she also managed to vault over them as she "raced" back up the stairs! The only thing we know for sure is that the pages weren't stepped on. This was probably because a) the ransom note never left the counter or desk where it was written until the Rams arranged it by the back door, or b)Patsy was secretly an olympic athlete.

The ransom note illustrates a problem that occurs with other details in the Rams' story; i.e., that some things in this case which we accept as facts are really conventions of the case - things JR + PR said that may not be true, but which we start to treat as true because they're useful reference points. Another example would be the 911 call allegedly made from the telephone alcove by the kitchen. Who's to say they weren't using the phone up in their bedroom - or in the basement laundry area? I'm amazed at how much the Rams still control the narrative, and that's important because controlling the narrative limits the questions.

 

[dodie20]

Thank you, Borndem and fellow greeters, for the wonderful welcome!

Just some thoughts...
We don't know that the note was ever on the stairs at all, only that Patsy said it was. And that was probably fiction. Steve Thomas and other detectives IIRC said they put pages on one tread + tried to step over them to the tread below, as Patsy described, and found it was nearly impossible to do without taking a serious fall. But not only did Patsy say she stepped over them on the way down, she also managed to vault over them as she "raced" back up the stairs! The only thing we know for sure is that the pages weren't stepped on. This was probably because a) the ransom note never left the counter or desk where it was written until the Rams arranged it by the back door, or b)Patsy was secretly an olympic athlete.

The ransom note illustrates a problem that occurs with other details in the Rams' story; i.e., that some things in this case which we accept as facts are really conventions of the case - things JR + PR said that may not be true, but which we start to treat as true because they're useful reference points. Another example would be the 911 call allegedly made from the telephone alcove by the kitchen. Who's to say they weren't using the phone up in their bedroom - or in the basement laundry area? I'm amazed at how much the Rams still control the narrative, and that's important because controlling the narrative limits the questions.

And I wonder why PR would think saying she found the note on the stairs was a good idea? Why not the kitchen table? or taped to a door? And this is presuming, (and I do), that PR wrote the note.

 

[Meara]

Good question. The spiral stairs always struck me as a dramatically interesting but problematic location for the note, what with all the leaping about, and the assumption that the alleged intruder must have known Patsy used the back stairs in the morning (Why would that figure anyway, when the note was addressed to John?).

You got me thinking, and here's what comes up. The other two most likely locations would have been the kitchen, as you say, or JB's bed/bedroom. It appears some part of the violence took place in the bedroom (blood drops on the pillow, disarrayed drapery tie, cloth loops scattered across the floor, etc.). Kolar believes the head bash or other violence took place in the kitchen. But evidence for both is muted, whereas the ransom note is riveting. Could it be that Patsy (or John) left it on the stairs as a distraction?

 

[chlban]

I must just not form strong enough friendships but, honestly, to me the idea that any family friend would be involved in or knowingly cover up the murder of a child is pretty far fetched. My best friend and I rode trycicles together and we are now 50 something and still close. I would do almost anything for her but cover up her killing her child? No way.
I can understand that a close friend might be convinced of the R's innocence and support them based on that. But I cannot imagine them being involved or having knowledge of the murder.

I also cannot imagine that a man as smart as JR would take any friend, no matter how close they might be, into his confidence.

I just don't buy that any friends knew what really happened. Although I think it's pretty clear that the White's reached their own conclusions and thus the end of the friendship.

 

[Anyhoo]

I must just not form strong enough friendships but, honestly, to me the idea that any family friend would be involved in or knowingly cover up the murder of a child is pretty far fetched. My best friend and I rode trycicles together and we are now 50 something and still close. I would do almost anything for her but cover up her killing her child? No way.
I can understand that a close friend might be convinced of the R's innocence and support them based on that. But I cannot imagine them being involved or having knowledge of the murder.

I also cannot imagine that a man as smart as JR would take any friend, no matter how close they might be, into his confidence.

I just don't buy that any friends knew what really happened. Although I think it's pretty clear that the White's reached their own conclusions and thus the end of the friendship.

Well said. I am just trying to explain JF's odd behavior regarding the note. I agree in most cases what you say is true, but not all.

 

[TroyinTX]

The more I think about it, I also do not think any of the Ramsey friends were involved. I do, however, believe that many of their close friends (obviously the Whites) figured out or have their suspicions about what really happened to JB and that PR and JR were attempting to cover it up with the outlandish scenario they created.

 

[ahoyhoy]

And I wonder why PR would think saying she found the note on the stairs was a good idea? Why not the kitchen table? or taped to a door? And this is presuming, (and I do), that PR wrote the note.

The only reason I can imagine is to give credence to the 'inside job' idea--That it was someone who knew the Ramseys' routine. Just a guess, because the leaping over stairs scenario is ridiculous.

I think the most obvious place to be be sure such a note is found, is on the refrigerator. Or in place of the kidnapped child (i.e. their bed). The stairs do add drama to the story though, so maybe the reason was just Patsy being Patsy.

 

[DeeDee249]

I must just not form strong enough friendships but, honestly, to me the idea that any family friend would be involved in or knowingly cover up the murder of a child is pretty far fetched. My best friend and I rode trycicles together and we are now 50 something and still close. I would do almost anything for her but cover up her killing her child? No way.
I can understand that a close friend might be convinced of the R's innocence and support them based on that. But I cannot imagine them being involved or having knowledge of the murder.

I also cannot imagine that a man as smart as JR would take any friend, no matter how close they might be, into his confidence.

I just don't buy that any friends knew what really happened. Although I think it's pretty clear that the White's reached their own conclusions and thus the end of the friendship.

A person might not cover for a friend, but they would cover to protect their own child. JR may not have told a friend, but they might have put it together on their own. In the case of the Rs friends- they may have genuinely started out believing there had been a kidnapping. Even after she was found in her own home by her father, suspicions may not have been raised. But as the lack of cooperation and other behaviors fell into place, some of them maybe had second thoughts or at least an uneasy feeling about it.
And there may also have been the fear that if they raised any concerns the finger of blame might be pointed a them- as it was with FW.

 

[DeeDee249]

The only reason I can imagine is to give credence to the 'inside job' idea--That it was someone who knew the Ramseys' routine. Just a guess, because the leaping over stairs scenario is ridiculous.

I think the most obvious place to be be sure such a note is found, is on the refrigerator. Or in place of the kidnapped child (i.e. their bed). The stairs do add drama to the story though, so maybe the reason was just Patsy being Patsy.

One of the suspicious things about the back stairs as a place to leave the note is that these back stairs were a "communication" location for Patsy and her housekeeper LHP. When Patsy had something to tell her she'd leave a note on the back stairs. LHP would do the same, as frequently Patsy was not at home when she was there cleaning. Patsy also left her handbags on that stairs for LHO to vacuum and clean out each week. By choosing that staircase as a place to leave the RN, it may have been a way to point blame at LHP, just as JR tried to do when he said it was an "inside job". It is no secret that LHO was one of the first names given to LE as a possible suspect. Police questioned her right away. Nothing was ever found that would link her to the crime. LHO and her family all gave saliva and writing samples to LE.
A real kidnapper would likely leave the note on the child's bed or at least in a place a stranger might think would be seen by the parents right away. Only people who knew Patsy knew that she used the back stairs instead of the main staircase. It wouldn't be the first thing a stranger would think of.

 

[chlban]

DeeDee249;

A person might not cover for a friend, but they would cover to protect their own child

.

Yes, I agree completely. That is what I believe happened.

JR may not have told a friend, but they might have put it together on their own. In the case of the Rs friends- they may have genuinely started out believing there had been a kidnapping. Even after she was found in her own home by her father, suspicions may not have been raised. But as the lack of cooperation and other behaviors fell into place, some of them maybe had second thoughts or at least an uneasy feeling about it.
And there may also have been the fear that if they raised any concerns the finger of blame might be pointed a them- as it was with F
W

Again I agree that was my point. I think it is entirely possible that friends would, at least in the beginning, refuse to accept that their good friend was a party to the death of their own child. I cannot think of one friend of mine that I would immediately "suspect" in such a situation, even with the very strange events of the first day.

My point was only that I cannot imagine a friendship strong enough that one would cover intentionally if you believed your friend killed their own child nor even more far fetched where you would aid that friend in the cover up.

I can, however, see initially believing in your friends innocence. In fact, I think that is the normal reaction. I am pretty sure FW went over there with the sincere belief that his friends had just suffered a horrible tragedy, if he only believed in the kidnapping at the time. However, I think he was probably one of the very first to start to see the light probably because he was so closely involved in the events of the first day.

 

[ahoyhoy]

DeeDee249;.

Yes, I agree completely. That is what I believe happened.




Again I agree that was my point. I think it is entirely possible that friends would, at least in the beginning, refuse to accept that their good friend was a party to the death of their own child. I cannot think of one friend of mine that I would immediately "suspect" in such a situation, even with the very strange events of the first day.

My point was only that I cannot imagine a friendship strong enough that one would cover intentionally if you believed your friend killed their own child nor even more far fetched where you would aid that friend in the cover up.

I can, however, see initially believing in your friends innocence. In fact, I think that is the normal reaction. I am pretty sure FW went over there with the sincere belief that his friends had just suffered a horrible tragedy, if he only believed in the kidnapping at the time. However, I think he was probably one of the very first to start to see the light probably because he was so closely involved in the events of the first day.

(BBM)

In addition to your points, most friends wouldn't cover after finding out about the molestation and/or incest. Who would want to socialize with them knowing that their own children may be victimized next? Clearly a few stuck by the Ramseys (which is CREEPY to me in the extreme), but good on FW for having none of it. Unless he knows it was BR, I am disappointed that FW nor anyone else has ever told all they know. The BDI scenario is the only one I can forgive hiding, b/c of his age.

 

[deca]

I always had the feeling that the Whites weren't really sure what happened- just eventually realized there was no way IDI + Ramsey weird behavior + botched investigation = no justice for JB.

So if they don't have any details there is really nothing- at least no "smoking gun" to reveal. JMO