John & the Basement

[Toltec]

To revisit the quote again after 'reading it carefully' yet again.

[Quote:]
A: (Schiller) "I know that he went into the basement and found the broken window open. He himself told this to the police on April 30, 1997. What ELSE he did in the basement I have been asked by law enforcement to exclude from the book to protect the investigation."

What ELSE he did in the basement I have been asked by law enforcement to exclude from the book to protect the investigation."

Was the book exclusion, stated in the quote 'to protect the investigation', Schillers thoughts OR LE thoughts on just what JR did in the basement, or both of their speculatiive thoughts on WHAT JR did. Just HOW CERTAIN would either Schiller OR LE even know EXACTLY what JR did in the basement, none of em were there with JR in the basement, WE weren't either. BUT BUT did JR tell LE OTHER things that he DID when he went to the basement, hmmm. BUT BUT why would LE have told Schiller THOSE things? Another boo boo by BPD ?, er. huh, hmmm.

Schiller's inference that he and LE KNEW what JR did, would be speculation, IF IF something had been done that was VISIBLE to know, HOW WOULD either LE or Schiller know that it WAS JR, why not someone else that could have done 'IT'?

I am becoming more fond of my thought that JR folded 'the' blanket and put it, the book and sham away in the suitcase BEFORE LE found them, wherever those items might have been before the 'official finding of JonBenet'.

Nervy and protective, IF IF it is true, imop.


capp, interesting thought on the special use of Victorious and Victory. I also wonder if PR was fond of saying Saved By The Cross at the boat regatta's, when they may have won by a hair, er, hmmm.



.
.[/QUOTE]

Very interesting indeed Camper...did not ever consider that scenario.

JAR is reading the Dr. Seuss book to JonBenet....he molests her, is caught by whomever and when is going to get whacked by the flashlight...he ducks.

 

[Tristan]

This is an excellent thread.

First of all, WHY would Schiller be privy to such highly sensitive information about this case?

Secondly, if he only included 10% of what he knows of the case (his words),
then how are we supposed to draw an accurate conclusion?

Regardless of who killed Jonbenet, or shall I say, which "Ramsey" killed
Jonbenet, they are being very well protected.

I'd love to know why.

 

[K777angel]

This is an excellent thread.

First of all, WHY would Schiller be privy to such highly sensitive information about this case?

Secondly, if he only included 10% of what he knows of the case (his words),
then how are we supposed to draw an accurate conclusion?

Regardless of who killed Jonbenet, or shall I say, which "Ramsey" killed
Jonbenet, they are being very well protected.

I'd love to know why.

Why? Because they CAN. They had the $$Money$$ to hire the best and most powerful attorneys in the state to build a wall of protection around them and their extended family making it virtually impossible to penetrate and get to the TRUTH.
They have alot to hide obviously and lost everything they owned in order to KEEP it hidden.
What might that be? Who would they protect?
For me the first obvious answer is their young son Burke.
All their actions and decisions from the moment of the 911 call support this theory better than any other.
We will probably never be privvy to all the records and files regarding Burke Ramsey's life up till now. But my sense is that THIS (Burke) is at the heart of the cover-up which continues to this day.
I recall Alex Hunter's curious comment to Geraldo Rivera around the time he was retiring: "You'd be very surprised at who the target of this case is."
The look on his face and the way he said it was conveying - "Public perception has been that the police's main suspects were first Patsy Ramsey and secondly John Ramsey.... but that really isn't what we've developed.... we NOW are targeting so and so and it would be 'very surprising' to you because there hasn't been any focus on this person...."

Hmmmm......

 

[tipper]

This is an excellent thread.

First of all, WHY would Schiller be privy to such highly sensitive information about this case?

Secondly, if he only included 10% of what he knows of the case (his words),
then how are we supposed to draw an accurate conclusion?

Regardless of who killed Jonbenet, or shall I say, which "Ramsey" killed
Jonbenet, they are being very well protected.

I'd love to know why.

I've wondered the same thing myself. I would guess LE was trying to cultivate Schiller and his POV as much as he was trying to cultivate them and their information.

Second, I don't think that 10% figure reflects anything. If there had been a great smoking gun hiding in the wings the GJ would have seen it and issued an indictment.

Had John Ramsey been as powerful as many portray him, I don't think he would have lost his job with L-M. I don't recall reading much about his being active in the Boulder political scene - which is where the power lies in most places. Patsy seems to have been mostly involved in social/charitable groups. The kind of power base that would support such a cover-up doesn't appear overnight and doesn't come from Junior League-type activities.

 

[Toltec]

This is an excellent thread.

First of all, WHY would Schiller be privy to such highly sensitive information about this case?

Secondly, if he only included 10% of what he knows of the case (his words),
then how are we supposed to draw an accurate conclusion?

Regardless of who killed Jonbenet, or shall I say, which "Ramsey" killed
Jonbenet, they are being very well protected.

I'd love to know why.

Schiller had access to case files...he was reading them when Steve Thomas walked by and that angered him.

 

[Toltec]

From DOI...paperback page 20:

Sometime that morning, I remember a day back in the summer when I had left my keys inside and was locked out of the house. To get in, I broke one of the panes in a basement window; then I reached in and released the latch, so I could climb inside. I think about the basement now. I jump up and hurry down there.

That entry place needs to be looked at, I tell myself. I move down the basement hall and find the window. The pane is still broken, and the window is open, with a large old Samsonite suitcase sitting right under it. Odd, I think. This doesn't look right. This suitcase is not normally kept here.

Maybe this is how the kidnapper got in and out of our house. The window ledge is about five feet off the floor, so a person would need something to stand on in order to get up and out.

I don't look further after finding the open window, but I carefully close it before going back upstairs....

John never mentions the chair blocking the door leading to the basement window....

 

[Voice of Reason]

From DOI...paperback page 20:

That entry place needs to be looked at, I tell myself. I move down the basement hall and find the window. The pane is still broken, and the window is open, with a large old Samsonite suitcase sitting right under it. Odd, I think. This doesn't look right. This suitcase is not normally kept here.

Maybe this is how the kidnapper got in and out of our house. The window ledge is about five feet off the floor, so a person would need something to stand on in order to get up and out.

I don't look further after finding the open window, but I carefully close it before going back upstairs....

WOAH!!!!!! I've never read DOI; just couldn't bear to read what is clearly a PR(not Patsy Ramsey ) move, and nothing else, IMO, but this quote has my head spinning!! Read what I have bolded, and ask yourself, WHY DIDN'T JR REPORT THIS TO THE POLICE AT THIS TIME????? He decides, instead, to latch the window carefully and go back upstairs without mentioning this to police immediately????

 

[Camper]

WOAH!!!!!! I've never read DOI; just couldn't bear to read what is clearly a PR(not Patsy Ramsey ) move, and nothing else, IMO, but this quote has my head spinning!! Read what I have bolded, and ask yourself, WHY DIDN'T JR REPORT THIS TO THE POLICE AT THIS TIME????? He decides, instead, to latch the window carefully and go back upstairs without mentioning this to police immediately????

----------->>>Welllll, yeppers and why did JR call the killer a 'kidnapper' since HE NEVER actually kidnapped JonBenet. JR shoulda said in DOI, 'the guy who wrote the note, coulda got outta the house through that there brokenated winder'. But with so much goin' on that morning, I forgot to tell the Police.

The Ramnesia was in place early on the morning of December 26, and is a lingering malady to this day.

Toltec, great catch on the NO CHAIR in JR's travels. Hmmm. :dance: :blowkiss:


.

 

[Thorkim]

HAHAHAHA Ramnesia! I love it, a new Ramseyism! Thank you for the laugh! But so very true in this case.

 

[tipper]

WOAH!!!!!! I've never read DOI; just couldn't bear to read what is clearly a PR(not Patsy Ramsey ) move, and nothing else, IMO, but this quote has my head spinning!! Read what I have bolded, and ask yourself, WHY DIDN'T JR REPORT THIS TO THE POLICE AT THIS TIME????? He decides, instead, to latch the window carefully and go back upstairs without mentioning this to police immediately????

Have you read ST's book? That's a PR move too.

In one interview John thinks, but isn't sure, that he may have mentioned it to Arndt. In another he says the lack of glass made him pretty sure it was left from when he broke it in the summer.

 

[UKGuy]

From DOI...paperback page 20:

Sometime that morning, I remember a day back in the summer when I had left my keys inside and was locked out of the house. To get in, I broke one of the panes in a basement window; then I reached in and released the latch, so I could climb inside. I think about the basement now. I jump up and hurry down there.

That entry place needs to be looked at, I tell myself. I move down the basement hall and find the window. The pane is still broken, and the window is open, with a large old Samsonite suitcase sitting right under it. Odd, I think. This doesn't look right. This suitcase is not normally kept here.

Maybe this is how the kidnapper got in and out of our house. The window ledge is about five feet off the floor, so a person would need something to stand on in order to get up and out.

I don't look further after finding the open window, but I carefully close it before going back upstairs....

John never mentions the chair blocking the door leading to the basement window....

Toltec,

This suitcase is not normally kept here.

Yes this is bang on the nail and lends itself more to Camper's interpretation or possibly BlueCrab's where I think he suggests the case and its contents have been relocated from upstairs?

Unless its more staging and JR is leading us astray e.g. more evidence for some kind of a pedophile scenario, or it was part of the crime scene at some point but was placed into the case.

My only reservation were the shards of glass lying on the case, was it Fleet White who says he observed them, picked up some pieces of glass, then replaced them again ?

This suggests some interplay between the case and the window that night, as if someone broke the window from the outside with the possible intention of having something passed out to him/her?

 

[Cranberry]

Toltec,

This suitcase is not normally kept here.

Yes this is bang on the nail and lends itself more to Camper's interpretation or possibly BlueCrab's where I think he suggests the case and its contents have been relocated from upstairs?

Unless its more staging and JR is leading us astray e.g. more evidence for some kind of a pedophile scenario, or it was part of the crime scene at some point but was placed into the case.

My only reservation were the shards of glass lying on the case, was it Fleet White who says he observed them, picked up some pieces of glass, then replaced them again ?

This suggests some interplay between the case and the window that night, as if someone broke the window from the outside with the possible intention of having something passed out to him/her?

Would the suitcase fit out the window?

 

[Nehemiah]

Would the suitcase fit out the window?

Yes, if the window were opened. Lou Smit got his body through it; John got his body through it (though he was only wearing his underwear )

I personally think that DOI was written to "clear up" (either through the truth or spin, or probably a mixture of both) all the accusations hurled at the Ramseys, and to address some of the "evidence" that the R Team knew was against them.

 

[Camper]

Would the suitcase fit out the window?

------------->>>Just trying to post this morning, I cannot access my own thread Journalistic Ransom Note!!!!!!

Responding through email alert response to this thread.

IF you will note in the crime scene Ramsey home photos, Burkes bed is pristinely made up! Do you think that Burke made his own bed up, OR that it was never slept in that night? WE have the Ramseys word that he was 'asleep' in interviews, then they changed their idea on that in the later Enquirer article.

Did JR make up Burkes bed BEFORE Burke left with Fleet that morning OR?



.

 

[tipper]

I believe Fleet made the bed while John was talking to Burke.

 

[Lacy Wood]

I believe Fleet made the bed while John was talking to Burke.

Tipper: Do you say "I believe" just to explain the made up bed or is there something you saw in the record?

 

[tipper]

Tipper: Do you say "I believe" just to explain the made up bed or is there something you saw in the record?

I'm pretty sure it's either in a deposition or police interview. I say "I believe" because I don't, at the moment, have time to look up the source.

Added: I can find references to his making the bed but not a source. Will keep looking.

I did however find this which I was looking for last week.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/841487/detail.html



Former Ramsey Friend May Be Jailed

Fleet White Was With Ramsey When JonBenet's Body Was Found

GOLDEN, Colo. -- A judge plans to send a former friend of JonBenet Ramsey's family to jail for failing to appear at a criminal trial related to the girl's unsolved slaying.

Jefferson County District Judge Jane Tidball continued Monday's hearing until Friday to allow Fleet White time to get a lawyer. She did not accept White's reasoning for not appearing at the trial of Boulder lawyer Thomas Miller earlier this month, despite an assistant district attorney's request that she not sentence him to jail.

"I do intend to put you in jail, that's the bottom line," Tidball said.


[...]

White appeared without a lawyer and asked to read a statement.

"I have respect for this court," White began. "In this case, however, I did not have so much respect for this case in which I'd been subpoenaed."

He said avoiding testimony in the Miller trial was "in the best interest of the ongoing JonBenet Ramsey investigation, the best interest of the Colorado justice system and, most importantly, the best interests of my family."

 

[Toltec]

When John was asked where the suitcase is normally kept...he said he didn't know.

Patsy said the last place she saw the suitcase was in the boiler room...the room next to the wine cellar.

Tipper is right about Fleet making the bed...I believe it is referenced in PMPT or ST book...

 

[Cranberry]

Yes, if the window were opened. Lou Smit got his body through it; John got his body through it (though he was only wearing his underwear )

I personally think that DOI was written to "clear up" (either through the truth or spin, or probably a mixture of both) all the accusations hurled at the Ramseys, and to address some of the "evidence" that the R Team knew was against them.

Thank you Nehemiah. It's hard to see how much space there is between the window and the concrete well wall outside. (Like if the suitcase could clear the window frame but not all the way outside?) From the photos the outside wall looks really close with the window shutters opening inside not out.

 

[Nehemiah]

Thank you Nehemiah. It's hard to see how much space there is between the window and the concrete well wall outside. (Like if the suitcase could clear the window frame but not all the way outside?) From the photos the outside wall looks really close with the window shutters opening inside not out.

You're welcome. Right, it's difficult to tell from the pictures. I have seen the actual window well myself (only from the outside), and it would be difficult to maneuver a hard suitcase through that, but I think it could be done.

I don't personally think it was intended for the suitcase to go thru the window, but that is just my opinion.