JonBenet's Skull Fractures: The Weapon

[DeeDee249]

...but PR could not be positively identified as the author. Don't you think it might make sense to consider the note being written by someone else?

Patsy was the ONLY one, of ALL who gave writing samples, who could NOT be ruled out as the author. It was strongly suggested that she may have written it with her non-dominant hand. Patsy was said to be ambidextrous, but that does not mean that her handwriting would be identical, regardless of which hand she used, only that she wrote as easily with her left as with her right.

 

[Edmond.DantesIII]

Patsy was the ONLY one, of ALL who gave writing samples, who could NOT be ruled out as the author. It was strongly suggested that she may have written it with her non-dominant hand. Patsy was said to be ambidextrous, but that does not mean that her handwriting would be identical, regardless of which hand she used, only that she wrote as easily with her left as with her right.

One more time:

PR not being ruled OUT is not what matters. What matters is that she could not be ruled IN. She could not be positively identified as the author of the note. She could have been. Indeed, some handwriting analysts did, though under highly dubious circumstances. (ie: They were hired by parties interested in obtaining an opinion favorable to their position.) However, the balance of unsolicited expert opinion does not favor her as being the author.

Now, you can make all sorts of wild speculations about her being "ambidextrous" and "not using her dominant hand" but all such speculation amounts to is special pleading, and special pleading is just not good enough to convict someone of murder, and particularly not good enough when she is the mother of the murdered victim.

The fact that PR could not be positively identified as the author of the note is of major importance in regards to her ultimate culpability, particularly when the rest of the purported evidence against her is so flimsy that it is barely worth mentioning.

 

[Edmond.DantesIII]

I have presented my case in numerous postings throughout this forum, and choose not to repeat myself. If you care to read through my posts, you can do so through looking at the "Statistics" tab on my listing through the Member's list. I have tried to establish "my case" using my interpretations of case evidence and history, and I do not claim to have done the kind of job that you might expect. So, I can only say that I will continue to share my opinion that John Ramsey should face charges, and as I do so, I hope to use fairness and credibility in my reasoning when I share my opinions on this forum.

You are welcome not to share them, or give credence to them.

I will seek them out and try to get back to you.

 

[DeeDee249]

One more time:

PR not being ruled OUT is not what matters. What matters is that she could not be ruled IN. She could not be positively identified as the author of the note. She could have been. Indeed, some handwriting analysts did, though under highly dubious circumstances. (ie: They were hired by parties interested in obtaining an opinion favorable to their position.) However, the balance of unsolicited expert opinion does not favor her as being the author.

Now, you can make all sorts of wild speculations about her being "ambidextrous" and "not using her dominant hand" but all such speculation amounts to is special pleading, and special pleading is just not good enough to convict someone of murder, and particularly not good enough when she is the mother of the murdered victim.

The fact that PR could not be positively identified as the author of the note is of major importance in regards to her ultimate culpability, particularly when the rest of the purported evidence against her is so flimsy that it is barely worth mentioning.

She was ruled "in". She was the only one ruled "in". No one else on that considerable list was even in the running. Are you denying someone could write a note with their opposite hand? Of course they could. Anyone can write something with their weaker hand.

 

[dodie20]

I'll have to take up a bit of your time with my answer, since you asked why, while I realize it will contain more information than you requested.

When this crime first occurred, my initial reaction what that JAR was responsible. I could not believe her parents would have killed her in that manner for many of the same reasons you present. And also because I am a mother and grandmother who would literally let someone anesthetize me and take my heart out for a transplant into one of my children or grandchildren if it was necessary.

Thus I followed the case carefully over the years, and 'followed the evidence' that has been presented to the public. Right here, I have to emphasize that redacted information might cause me to change my opinion once again, if I learn anything new/more than what I know now.

I've ridden the roller coaster of suspicion ( :rollercoaster: ) while others have come to a conclusion for themselves which they will value until or unless an acceptable confession is made. Isn't it wonderful to be an American and have these freedoms??

Anyway, I have also considered Patsy, JR and PR together without covering for Burke, and with covering for Burke. Because the available evidence has led away from JAR, I have had to exclude him, though my henky meter still goes off when I think of the possibility, I'll admit. Most of all, I really wanted to latch on to the IDI theory when the reports first started coming out, because it let me off the hook from having to go any further and consider the parent's involvement.

Unfortunately, the evidence, as I interpret it, always leads me back to the killer being a family member. The ONLY intruder I could accept at this point is one that had a standing invitation for access to the home at any time. To me that would have been only very, very close personal friends or other family members.

I have spent a good deal of time considering posts on other forums and a couple of blogs, with selection of www.solvingjonbenet.blogspot.com, as presenting what I consider to be the most factually based. And I became totally impassioned about trying to see some resolve for this case, though I have always hoped an arrest would be made, when John Ramsey wrote his most recent book. There is something very wrong, in my opinion, in the mind of someone who not only needs to sell the story (Death of Innocence) of his response to his murdered child once, when he already possesses enough wealth to provide a comfortable life by most standards for himself and a family, but then feels he must do it a second time (The Other Side of Suffering) only to attach it to his faith in Christ. Christ threw moneychangers out of the temple. And Christ asks only to "come unto me, you who are burdoned, and I will give you rest". A true Christian does not need to sell his story of comfort to anyone for any reason. If he would have offered to witness his story, free of charge, to as many congregations as would hear it, at his own expense, I might have believed him. There is a story told by Christ in the Bible of the widow who gave all she had - her only mite - and was praised for being a true giver.
So much for John Ramsey's Christianity, in my opinion.

Anyway, it was what struck me about the type of mind JR must have. I stood back, started taking a closer look at the evidence, and for me, the pieces fell into place very slowly, one at time, that have led me to believe John Ramsey killed his daughter, intended to throw off Patsy first, the police second, would have carried out the scenario he crafted within the note (which was written in a style some might see of his wife as his back up plan if there was going to be a glitch), and has carefully devoted his resources, time and energy in continuing the cover up of his guilt.

I will relent to this, IF, and I do say IF, Patsy was involved in a cover up, it was as an accessory after the fact - for one of two reasons:
she was purposefully and gulliballly duped (which I think she might have been too smart for, but due to prescription drug use might have been capable of), or she was terrified of what she perceived as a genuine threat against her life from her husband or her son, or any other part of her family - probably a combination of it all.

Now, my nutshell answer to you is: I think JR killed his daughter because he
was not willing to have his world come crashing down upon him, even though he was a very sick, sick man.

The other day, I wrote something about PR's fibers being where they had no business being, and another poster pointed out that JR also left some fibers where they didn't belong. This got me to thinking, and I made a little connection. If we focus on the fiber evidence, a story starts to unfold, and I was wondering what kind of theory could explain both PR and JR's fiber locations. (I can't really include BR in this, because I don't know anything about physical evidence that points to him). What I was thinking was this...What if it was JR who molested and maybe bashed JB? and then PR finished her off? Does the evidence support or go against this theory? For some reason, I find PR coming to JR's aid, at the expense of her daughter, more believable than both parents coming to BR's aid. For starters, if JR was doing the molesting, PR could have had misplaced anger and blamed the victim. It happens. So, the motivation to blame and get rid of what she perceived as the problem could have been there. Since the news broke that the grand jury voted to indict both Rs, I've been giving JR more consideration and wondering what his role was, and IMO, after thinking about it, it's my strong belief that he was no innocent bystander. But according to the evidence, neither was PR. IMO, the bash was probably caused by a rage and I believe a mother would more likely rage on a daughter than a man, so IMO, PR most likely was the basher...but BR DID say that someone quietly took JB... doesn't sound much like a rage, does it?

 

[dodie20]

I'd like to see that hammer. I never considered the hammer much, but it now occurs to me that on some traditional claw hammers, there is a curvature to the top edges. It seems possible that a blow from the side of hammer could produce a similar injury.

IDK what kind of hammer was taken, but my dad used to have all kinds of tools and I remember rubber coated hammers and also some partially coated hammers. I think the rubber is sturdy enough to protect the hammer , so it might protect the skin from breaking?

 

[OpenMind4U]

The other day, I wrote something about PR's fibers being where they had no business being, and another poster pointed out that JR also left some fibers where they didn't belong. This got me to thinking, and I made a little connection. If we focus on the fiber evidence, a story starts to unfold, and I was wondering what kind of theory could explain both PR and JR's fiber locations. (I can't really include BR in this, because I don't know anything about physical evidence that points to him). What I was thinking was this...What if it was JR who molested and maybe bashed JB? and then PR finished her off? Does the evidence support or go against this theory? For some reason, I find PR coming to JR's aid, at the expense of her daughter, more believable than both parents coming to BR's aid. For starters, if JR was doing the molesting, PR could have had misplaced anger and blamed the victim. It happens. So, the motivation to blame and get rid of what she perceived as the problem could have been there. Since the news broke that the grand jury voted to indict both Rs, I've been giving JR more consideration and wondering what his role was, and IMO, after thinking about it, it's my strong belief that he was no innocent bystander. But according to the evidence, neither was PR. IMO, the bash was probably caused by a rage and I believe a mother would more likely rage on a daughter than a man, so IMO, PR most likely was the basher...but BR DID say that someone quietly took JB... doesn't sound much like a rage, does it?

dodie20,

Love your logic....Thank you!!!!!

 

[redheadedgal]

I have a headache now. This thread started out with OTG laying out thoughtful information regarding the blow to head and then imploded with IDI nonsense. Okay, did I miss what OTG named as the weapon?

as far as i know otg is working on his theory and will post more when he's ready and able... i'm anxious to hear if he has another choice for the weapon used... i've always thought is was a golf club (JR wanting his clubs in the winter???) but am definitely open to another suggestion as long as it fits with the known facts/evidence of this case.

 

[wengr]

IDK what kind of hammer was taken, but my dad used to have all kinds of tools and I remember rubber coated hammers and also some partially coated hammers. I think the rubber is sturdy enough to protect the hammer , so it might protect the skin from breaking?

Now that you mention it, there is a type a hammer called a "dead blow hammer". They tend to be shaped more like a mallet than a traditional claw hammer. The exterior is usually plastic or rubber, and the head is hollow and contains a loose material like ball bearings. The design allows much of the force to come from the shifting weight inside the hammer as opposed to the initial contact. The purpose is to convey force to something without damaing the surface. It's not something that most people would possess, and I'm not sure that the shape works, but it certainly has the ability to do what was done.

 

[midwest mama]

The other day, I wrote something about PR's fibers being where they had no business being, and another poster pointed out that JR also left some fibers where they didn't belong. This got me to thinking, and I made a little connection. If we focus on the fiber evidence, a story starts to unfold, and I was wondering what kind of theory could explain both PR and JR's fiber locations. (I can't really include BR in this, because I don't know anything about physical evidence that points to him). What I was thinking was this...What if it was JR who molested and maybe bashed JB? and then PR finished her off? Does the evidence support or go against this theory? For some reason, I find PR coming to JR's aid, at the expense of her daughter, more believable than both parents coming to BR's aid. For starters, if JR was doing the molesting, PR could have had misplaced anger and blamed the victim. It happens. So, the motivation to blame and get rid of what she perceived as the problem could have been there. Since the news broke that the grand jury voted to indict both Rs, I've been giving JR more consideration and wondering what his role was, and IMO, after thinking about it, it's my strong belief that he was no innocent bystander. But according to the evidence, neither was PR. IMO, the bash was probably caused by a rage and I believe a mother would more likely rage on a daughter than a man, so IMO, PR most likely was the basher...but BR DID say that someone quietly took JB... doesn't sound much like a rage, does it?

There has never been a statement by anyone who knew Patsy that they saw her in a "rage". The closest thing that can be reported about that sort of behavior is the video interview where she says "Don't go there...." and ends up slapping her knees with her hands." Then ends up choking back some tears as she talks about what kind of hell her life has been.

Now, think about the statements that have been made by those who knew John about his seething anger. Some of it was displayed at times, and other times it was frightening for those who witnessed it.

And, if the flashlight was the bash weapon, whose flashlight was it, and who would have had the most physical capability of wielding it as such - a blow that would be strong enough to incapacitate, but delivered in a manner so as not to cause severe outward damage. I'm with Boesp on this - the blow to the head would have had to have a great deal of force, but not necessarily much velocity. I can see a man delivering a fist type blow with a heavy flashlight or hammer this way, but I can't see a female or child having the phsyical strength it would take to cause that kind of skull damage without a full overhead swing (velocity) which I think would have also caused a scalp wound. All :moo:

 

[wengr]

I suspect it's possible to overthink the intact scalp. JBR had long hair. I can see the possibility of thick hair protecting the scalp. A blunt instrument, or fixture, along with the protection of hair imo can be enough to produce the result we have. Solves nothing of course, but it is what it is.

 

[midwest mama]

Wengr: Is this the hammer you referenced? Hmmm, a possibility?...........



Click to enlarge.

 

[wengr]

Wengr: Is this the hammer you referenced? Hmmm, a possibility?...........

View attachment 29757

Click to enlarge.

Yep, that's it MM. They come in various styles. If you held one up and moved it back and forth, you would feel the heavy material inside moving fore and aft. It's a common tool in automotive body repair, where it can be used to move sheetmetal back into place without further damaging the surface of the sheet metal.

 

[redheadedgal]

It's a common tool in automotive body repair, where it can be used to move sheetmetal back into place without further damaging the surface of the sheet metal.

and in construction apparently (wikipedia) so--

1) why would the ramsey's own this tool?
2) why would it be in the house?
3) is there any evidence of JR owning this (or any other) type of specialized tool?

 

[midwest mama]

Yep, that's it MM. They come in various styles. If you held one up and moved it back and forth, you would feel the heavy material inside moving fore and aft. It's a common tool in automotive body repair, where it can be used to move sheetmetal back into place without further damaging the surface of the sheet metal.

Common to use one for setting pavers or bricks in masonry projects.

Also: (from Yahoo answers)
usuall y when a lot of force is needed shuch as to break somthing like concrete or stone

All hat
Good question Chick - I've asked people the same question - everyone seems to know what one IS, but it's hard to find someone to say what it's used FOR. I can see the pavers application, but was it the paver industry that invented this thing? Surely that's not the underlying reason they exist, to set pavers? I wonder what is, and what industry invented them and why -

Bobo
Casey L has it correct. They usually have a plastic, non-marring head.

Effu
bead blow is used for direct and accurate impact without marring the surface - it also has no 'bounce back' or rebound after striking whatever surface you're hitting



From another website: (underlines by me)
"Direct from the Van Nuys desk of the Tool of the Week aptly named hammers division comes the dead blow hammer, or mallet. There are many hammer-mallets, but none have the unique functionality of the dead blow hammer. Inside the hollow plastic or steel center of the dead blow hammer head is a measure of sand or steel pellet shot. The pellets are similar to those found inside a shotgun shell. The shot dampens the rebound or bouncing associated with lesser hammers. The shot also softens the hammer blow to your wrist and hand. The quick-shifting shot even adds bonus power the hammer blow. The shot delivers its mass and inertia to the inside of the hammer face a split-second after contact with the frame rail, steel shelving, 55-gallon drum lid, or whatever else is being hammered. Bonus double hit!
While the dead blow hammer is great for smacking together wooden joists, convincing automotive chassis parts into place, or use anyplace where a focused blunt force is required, the somewhat malleable faces of the hammer are not suited for use on sharp objects such as chisels or nails."

Oh Wengr!!!

 

[dodie20]

Now that you mention it, there is a type a hammer called a "dead blow hammer". They tend to be shaped more like a mallet than a traditional claw hammer. The exterior is usually plastic or rubber, and the head is hollow and contains a loose material like ball bearings. The design allows much of the force to come from the shifting weight inside the hammer as opposed to the initial contact. The purpose is to convey force to something without damaing the surface. It's not something that most people would possess, and I'm not sure that the shape works, but it certainly has the ability to do what was done.

eeew, where in the world did the name, 'dead blow' hammer come from? It doesn't sound very tool-like, does it?

 

[wengr]

and in construction apparently (wikipedia) so--

1) why would the ramsey's own this tool?
2) why would it be in the house?
3) is there any evidence of JR owning this (or any other) type of specialized tool?

All good questions for which I have no answer. It's just hammer consideration, as BR mentioned a hammer. Personally I have no reason to believe that a specialized tool would be required to inflict the damage. On the other hand it's not a rare item. They are on the shelf at every Sears store as we speak, and they do fit in golf bags.

 

[wengr]

Common to use one for setting pavers or bricks in masonry projects.

Yes, that is exactly the type of thing it is designed for. Pavers are typically laid on a base of leveled sand. So they are tapped down to set them all in the sand at the same level. A steel hammer would mar the surface and possibly crack the paver.

 

[wengr]

eeew, where in the world did the name, 'dead blow' hammer come from? It doesn't sound very tool-like, does it?

I would guess it comes from the feel it has when used. It's hard to describe but when you hit something with it, it basically just goes thud with no rebound.

 

[midwest mama]

and in construction apparently (wikipedia) so--

1) why would the ramsey's own this tool?
2) why would it be in the house?
3) is there any evidence of JR owning this (or any other) type of specialized tool?

There was unfinished construction in the basement of the house - e.g. the closet in the police video. The R's had recently had construction done on their house, IIRC. Very common tool to be left behind. Construction workers were on the suspect list interviewed by BPD and excluded, IIRC.