JonBenet's Skull Fractures: The Weapon

[SweetT]

I was just reading the autopsy report. I did not know that JB had on a gold necklace with a cross,. a gold ring on middle finger of rt. hand, and a gold bracelet with her name on it on her rt wrist. If she resisted at all, could any do her jewelry cause many of the marks on her?
I counted the undies listed in the warrants. I get a total of 24 pair. Some said girls underwear, and some just said underwear, so they must have had some all family members.A medical examiner from Illinois viewed the autopsy and said her death showed great emotional involvement, and that someone really hated JB, and had a strong desire to be rid of her. That sounds like BR, but would a jealous Brother go this far?
There was green material in JB's hair. Linda Arndt said it was consistent with the garland on the spiral staircase.[/QUOTE]

This tells me that she was carried down the staircase and the garland caught in her hair..so she was carried from her room possibly unconscious. So this tells me what ever happened did so in her room or bathroom upstairs. JMO

 

[wengr]

There was green material in JB's hair. Linda Arndt said it was consistent with the garland on the spiral staircase.[/QUOTE]

This tells me that she was carried down the staircase and the garland caught in her hair..so she was carried from her room possibly unconscious. So this tells me what ever happened did so in her room or bathroom upstairs. JMO

Or, I seem to recall reading somewhere that the WC was used to store Christmas stuff? Was this garland ever in the basement? Was it stored in the house prior to being used in December 1996, and if so in what part of the house? Because if it was, the transfer to the hair, and other events, could have occured there.

 

[midwest mama]

I was just reading the autopsy report. I did not know that JB had on a gold necklace with a cross,. a gold ring on middle finger of rt. hand, and a gold bracelet with her name on it on her rt wrist. If she resisted at all, could any do her jewelry cause many of the marks on her?
I counted the undies listed in the warrants. I get a total of 24 pair. Some said girls underwear, and some just said underwear, so they must have had some all family members.A medical examiner from Illinois viewed the autopsy and said her death showed great emotional involvement, and that someone really hated JB, and had a strong desire to be rid of her. That sounds like BR, but would a jealous Brother go this far?
There was green material in JB's hair. Linda Arndt said it was consistent with the garland on the spiral staircase.[/QUOTE]

This tells me that she was carried down the staircase and the garland caught in her hair..so she was carried from her room possibly unconscious. So this tells me what ever happened did so in her room or bathroom upstairs. JMO

James Kolar gave his opinion of the head bash happening somewhere near the dining area. Whether a hammer had been left behind by construction workers (picked up and stored by the R's) or purchased by the R's as a household utility item, would it be unusal to store a hammer in the same drawer as a maglite? We have two drawers in our kitchen devoted to such utility/tool items, and one of them contains a hammer and a flashlight, as well as a couple of screwdrivers, etc.

 

[midwest mama]

Or, I seem to recall reading somewhere that the WC was used to store Christmas stuff? Was this garland ever in the basement? Was it stored in the house prior to being used in December 1996, and if so in what part of the house? Because if it was, the transfer to the hair, and other events, could have occured there.

There is a photo of the basement area with the WC door as the focus point, which shows a garland bough hanging on the wall and a couple of sprigs of branches jutting out a bit into the aisle way. It's been previously speculated that this could be responsible for the green fibers in JB's as well.

 

[SweetT]

There is a photo of the basement area with the WC door as the focus point, which shows a garland bough hanging on the wall and a couple of sprigs of branches jutting out a bit into the aisle way. It's been previously speculated that this could be responsible for the green fibers in JB's as well.

A thorough investigation should most certainly be able to determine which greenery the green in JonBenets hair came from. If it was from the stairs and someone carried her down the stairs then the question would be was the greenery to the right or left on the stairwell and which way was the head of her bed configured? Then would it match someone picking her up lets say on the right side of her bed say with her head to the left going down the stairs to get the greenery in it? See what I am trying to say?

 

[dodie20]

Yep, that's it MM. They come in various styles. If you held one up and moved it back and forth, you would feel the heavy material inside moving fore and aft. It's a common tool in automotive body repair, where it can be used to move sheetmetal back into place without further damaging the surface of the sheet metal.

when you say sheet metal, what do you mean? Wasn't a piece of sheet metal removed with a search warrant? Do you have any idea of why the Rs would have had sheet metal? What kind of construction work were they having done, and wasn't one of their bathrooms also messed up? I just googled sheet metal tools and and there are specific hammers...nasty looking things.

 

[wengr]

when you say sheet metal, what do you mean?

An auto body is constructed of various pieces of sheet metal, stamped into shape, and then welded or bolted together. Lets say you get a largish dent in your car door. If it is to be hammered out, a typical hammer will leave a small dent each time it impacts the metal.

Wasn't a piece of sheet metal removed with a search warrant? [

I don't know this.

Do you have any idea of why the Rs would have had sheet metal?

No

What kind of construction work were they having done, and wasn't one of their bathrooms also messed up?

I don't know much about the construction work. I have seen the basement bathroom described as "broken" or "not working". I believe I saw a pic somewhere, and it gave me the impression that it was in the midst of a remodel. Perhaps a stalled remodel.

I just googled sheet metal tools and and there are specific hammers...nasty looking things.

Yes there are all sorts of hammers and dollies for working and shaping sheet metal, but that's something different. The dead blow mallet is more of a general purpose tool for which sheet metal is one of it's many uses.

 

[midwest mama]

Hello Edmond.DanteIII --

You need a break. You have begun to backpeddle in your attempt to spin your IDI theory.

Here's a statement from one of your posts:
"I am tired of belaboring this moot point."

Then, a couple of posts later, you say this:
"...as I am not the one belaboring the point"

But since you probably won't agree, I'll go ahead a give you a break -- at least from my forum pages. Tricia says it's OK. :denied:

Have fun:back:

 

[DeeDee249]

Or, I seem to recall reading somewhere that the WC was used to store Christmas stuff? Was this garland ever in the basement? Was it stored in the house prior to being used in December 1996, and if so in what part of the house? Because if it was, the transfer to the hair, and other events, could have occured there.

Yes it was. Patsy kept her Christmas trees in there. She put trees in nearly every room the year the house was on the Holiday House Tour - this was 1993, THREE YEARS before the murder.
Arndt's word on this cannot be taken as fact. The truth is that the fake needles in JB's hair could have come from the tree she was placed under in the living room. There is also a fake green needle decoration pictured in the crime photo of the wine cellar door hanging on the wall RIGHT NEXT TO THE WC DOOR. There are PLENTY of sources for those needles in the house- the garland on the stairs is not the only source. There was never testing done, as far as I know, on any of the fake greens decoration in the house to prove which was the source of the needles in JB's hair.

 

[dodie20]

An auto body is constructed of various pieces of sheet metal, stamped into shape, and then welded or bolted together. Lets say you get a largish dent in your car door. If it is to be hammered out, a typical hammer will leave a small dent each time it impacts the metal. I don't know this.NoI don't know much about the construction work. I have seen the basement bathroom described as "broken" or "not working". I believe I saw a pic somewhere, and it gave me the impression that it was in the midst of a remodel. Perhaps a stalled remodel.Yes there are all sorts of hammers and dollies for working and shaping sheet metal, but that's something different. The dead blow mallet is more of a general purpose tool for which sheet metal is one of it's many uses.

I just checked a candyrose and black sheet metal from the wine cellar was listed on page 10 of the search warrant. IDK what it means, but where there's sheet metal, there might be tools, like a specific hammer. I'll tell you 1 thing, somebody doesn't accidentally bash a 6 year old in the head with a hammer. just thinking...if the weapon Was a hammer, (and that's a big IF), that coupled with BR saying someone 'quietly' took JB, isn't looking compatible with the accident theories. moo

 

[redheadedgal]

i did a quick google search and found two pics of hammer injuries to the skull... a "standard" household hammer was used according to the site.

it doesn't look anything like jonbenet's injury.

***WARNING: GRAPHIC PICTURES BELOW***​

http://www.bestgore.com/murder/hammer-attack-skull-fractures/

 

[redheadedgal]

golf related head injuries in children (37 subjects w/ 33 injured due to golf clubs) -- 2002

23 sustained lacerations to the head
12 had haematomas
1 skull fracture

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1756294/


how does this fit with jonbenet's injury?

 

[redheadedgal]

golf club head injuries in children -- 1997 (a bit old but still relevant imo)

A 1997 review of head injuries in children treated at the Westchester Medical Center in New York in the three-month period following Mr. Woods' first Masters Championship showed of the eight children who required surgery, half had a depressed skull fracture from a golf club.

http://eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-04/mcog-ghi040505.php

 

[redheadedgal]

malice green -- 1992

-hit in the head repeatedly with police maglite
-multiple scalp lacerations (viewable in pic @ first link below)
-no skull fracture

http://www.thefullwiki.org/Malice_Green

http://www.larrynevers.com/autopsyreports.htm

 

[wengr]

malice green -- 1992

-hit in the head repeatedly with police maglite
-multiple scalp lacerations (viewable in pic @ first link below)
-no skull fracture

http://www.thefullwiki.org/Malice_Green

http://www.larrynevers.com/autopsyreports.htm

There is a difference of course between a full grown man and a six year old girl. But a 3D cell maglite is a 3D cell maglite.
I seem to have a more liberal view of the potential for skull fracture then many do. At 15 years of age I experienced a fall which resulted in a 1" fracture to the rear of my skull, and also a 6" fracture to the front above my left eye. There was no depression, however the event was nowhere as dramatic as the result would imply. I'm left with the impression that there are so many variables to the pysics of it, that while we can make educated guesses as to the liklyhood of various scenarios, not much can really be ruled out with certainty.

 

[DeeDee249]

There is a difference of course between a full grown man and a six year old girl. But a 3D cell maglite is a 3D cell maglite.
I seem to have a more liberal view of the potential for skull fracture then many do. At 15 years of age I experienced a fall which resulted in a 1" fracture to the rear of my skull, and also a 6" fracture to the front above my left eye. There was no depression, however the event was nowhere as dramatic as the result would imply. I'm left with the impression that there are so many variables to the pysics of it, that while we can make educated guesses as to the liklyhood of various scenarios, not much can really be ruled out with certainty.

I am sorry that happened to you, but I am glad you posted it. Because you indicate that in a FALL- you did get skull fractures, but there was NO depressed fracture. Hopefully this will put and end to the speculation that she could have gotten that horrible depressed fracture from a fall.

 

[DeeDee249]

I just checked a candyrose and black sheet metal from the wine cellar was listed on page 10 of the search warrant. IDK what it means, but where there's sheet metal, there might be tools, like a specific hammer. I'll tell you 1 thing, somebody doesn't accidentally bash a 6 year old in the head with a hammer. just thinking...if the weapon Was a hammer, (and that's a big IF), that coupled with BR saying someone 'quietly' took JB, isn't looking compatible with the accident theories. moo

The sheet metal could have also been the source of the "metal scraping concrete" sound heard by the neighbor after is wife heard the scream.

 

[BOESP]

golf club head injuries in children -- 1997 (a bit old but still relevant imo)

A 1997 review of head injuries in children treated at the Westchester Medical Center in New York in the three-month period following Mr. Woods' first Masters Championship showed of the eight children who required surgery, half had a depressed skull fracture from a golf club.

http://eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-04/mcog-ghi040505.php

But JonBenet also had an 8 1/2" linear fracture running anterior and posterior from the depressed skull fracture. Did the eight children who required surgery have this same linear fracture?

I'm in the minority but to me that fracture suggests some high pressure was needed to accompany the low velocity blunt force trauma that caused the depressed skull fracture that did not lacerate JonBenet's scalp.

 

[dodie20]

Was just 1 baseball bat removed from the property? Was it metal or wood? While wooden bats are solid, most aluminum softball bats, (and I'm guessing baseball bats are similar), are hollowed, but have added inside components...such as air bags, or double aluminum walls, or tubes, etc. These insides supply extra power and 'pop' and sometimes add a 'trampoline' effect, but at the same time, they are very lightweight and easy to swing. I've seen girls get their ankles and other bones broken because of slung bats, so the potential for grave injury is there...especially if a person swings at another person on purpose. moo

 

[dodie20]

I was wondering why a killer who killed by strangling, would leave that weapon in plain sight, but go to the trouble to hide a weapon that caused an injury before the strangulation. This makes no sense unless he was hoping the injury would go unnoticed? Who would be more worried about hiding an injury than a murder? maybe because it was motive for the murder. This is 1 of those things that doesn't jibe with an intruder at all. 1st of all, why would an intruder use 2 different methods of killing? wouldn't he just finish what he started? in other words, keep bashing until his victim was dead. Also, the murder weapon was made from items from the house, so this could NOT have been part of any intruder plan. And IMO, since the murder weapon, along with everything else came from that house, logic says the injury weapon came from the house too. But, the Rs said nothing was missing from a burglary! ( I knew this train of thought was going somewhere). The Rs reported nothing was missing, and this weapon, more so than jewelry, would be what they looked for...so no intruder took the weapon. In other words...murder weapon and supplies came from house, ransom note and supplies came from house, pineapple came from house, flashlight came from house, injury weapon came from house. And unless they themselves got rid of it, it was still there. all moo