Judge's Order re: OP's Mental Health Eval Thread #42

[Trooper]

Since Oscar is the admitted killer of Reeva Steenkamp , often forgotten by some,
his motivation to lie is greater by a thousand times than any other witness on the stand, either defence or prosecution witnesses.. Oscar's motivation to lie far outweighs any other single person taking part in that trial.,. from the judge down to the cleaner.

Because of that, his evidence is the most highly scrutinised and because he is answering a prima facie case, and is therefore burdened with providing the proof as to why he shouldn't be convicted of murder , his testimony only carries the weight empirical evidence gives it.

and so far.. that ain't much.

 

[Gryffindor]

why would Oscars testimony be the only one carrying any weight??

I don't understand that premise..


this trial isn't about what Oscar says.. its about what is.

He's a witness, as are others. All are considered in court.

 

[soozieqtips]

why would Oscars testimony be the only one carrying any weight??

I don't understand that premise..


this trial isn't about what Oscar says.. its about what is.

BBM - exactly!!

 

[Gryffindor]

Of course , although if used together , imo , would imply different things like i tried to express an opinion about upthread. I just think OP expressed himself incorrectly , it'd be nice to ask him why but that's another story.:twocents:

High pressure situation. I'm not sure he knew why he was saying what he was saying for much of the time . . . .

 

[Trooper]

He's a witness, as are others. All are considered in court.

He is the accused..


much much more than a witness.. not on his word having more gravity, ,as he has much more motivation to lie, but more in the sense of his story must be impeccable, and provable, and possible and rational..

must be. it isn't enough to be maybe.

 

[soozieqtips]

He's a witness, as are others. All are considered in court.

The other witnesses are not the accused.

Only the accused is on trial for murder.

 

[Trooper]

High pressure situation. I'm not sure he knew why he was saying what he was saying for much of the time . . . .

its a tuff life when you pump 4 bullets thru a door into another human being.. . high pressure comes with the territory.

 

[Viper]

Yes you have stated this on various occasions I do not come to the same conclusions that you have in order for the Judge to find Oscars story within reason.

<modsnip> Approximately how long, and at what two points in time, was OP screaming like he had never screamed and cried before in his life? Am I to believe that it was the same timeframe that neighbors heard a man and a woman arguing, leading up to a woman's blood curdling screams and the sound of gunshots? And then all of the noise stopped. That was about 12-15 minutes of OP screaming. That was the timeframe of when he heard the noise to when he shot four times. After he shot he ran around the house screaming and crying, checking the curtains, getting his cricket bat, still screaming and crying, running back and forth to the bedroom and the bathroom, until he broke down the door, then he stopped screaming. I really do need to see his timeline to understand his story, because how can he shoot and then carry on with all of his yelling and screaming in a man and woman voice for ~ 15 minutes before he breaks down the door? I would add questions about how Reeva could still be breathing after all of that time, but lets just go one step at a time.

 

[CriLondon]

High pressure situation. I'm not sure he knew why he was saying what he was saying for much of the time . . . .

Possibly , just as possible as him not being aware of the improbability of being overcome with an emotion and the ability to feel others. He probably meant to say desperate. I'm really not too concerned with that part , as one can be desperate when realization sets in.

With all respect i'm not comfortable going with "much of the time" , it was a high pressure situation that is true. Which , unfortunately for OP , he's gotten into, all by himself.

 

[Carmelita]

"Sad" is the emotion, not "overcome."

Thank you I understand that sad is an emotion and overcome is a qualifier that is the crux of my posting about the difference between sad and overcome with sadness. There is a world of difference when it comes to the two statements.

“Overcome” can incorporate a myriad of other things in that it is a qualifier.

It could be as Cri believes that Oscar misspoke, personally I believe Oscar’s response upon seeing Reeva being put into words while in the box, being “overcome with sadness” is in keeping of what we know of Oscar’s personality. He is a fighter, his first words in his autobiography are “The real loser is never the person who crosses the finish line last. The real loser is the person who does not even try to compete.”

Looking at it from a psychological perspective Oscar was no longer in the race, there was nothing he could do, so he was “overcome with sadness” as I am sure subconsciously he knew Reeva had unsurvivable wounds even if didn’t consciously acknowledge so in the moment of first seeing her.

 

[Viper]

Only thing is - Oscar claimed not to have heard any screams. Wouldn't that testimony only carry weight if Oscar himself heard them?

I don't know if you noticed it, but Nel was ecstatic when OP said a) Reeva didn't scream, but then quickly changed that to b) he could not hear whether or not she screamed because his hearing was affected by the loud deafening gunshots. By saying that OP removed himself as a witness to whether or not Reeva screamed, OP cannot say. But the neighbors that say she did were not deafened, they heard her screams, and now OP cannot contradict their testimony, it stands.

 

[Gryffindor]

Thank you I understand that sad is an emotion and overcome is a qualifier that is the crux of my posting about the difference between sad and overcome with sadness. There is a world of difference when it comes to the two statements.

“Overcome” can incorporate a myriad of other things in that it is a qualifier.

It could be as Cri believes that Oscar misspoke, personally I believe Oscar’s response upon seeing Reeva being put into words while in the box, being “overcome with sadness” is in keeping of what we know of Oscar’s personality. He is a fighter, his first words in his autobiography are “The real loser is never the person who crosses the finish line last. The real loser is the person who does not even try to compete.”

Looking at it from a psychological perspective Oscar was no longer in the race, there was nothing he could do, so he was “overcome with sadness” as I am sure subconsciously he knew Reeva had unsurvivable wounds even if didn’t consciously acknowledge so in the moment of first seeing her.

Does Oscar's autobiography give any insight into the interpretation of events from when he was on the stand? Thank you. :-D

 

[Trooper]

Thank you I understand that sad is an emotion and overcome is a qualifier that is the crux of my posting about the difference between sad and overcome with sadness. There is a world of difference when it comes to the two statements.

“Overcome” can incorporate a myriad of other things in that it is a qualifier.

It could be as Cri believes that Oscar misspoke, personally I believe Oscar’s response upon seeing Reeva being put into words while in the box, being “overcome with sadness” is in keeping of what we know of Oscar’s personality. He is a fighter, his first words in his autobiography are “The real loser is never the person who crosses the finish line last. The real loser is the person who does not even try to compete.”
Looking at it from a psychological perspective Oscar was no longer in the race, there was nothing he could do, so he was “overcome with sadness” as I am sure subconsciously he knew Reeva had unsurvivable wounds even if didn’t consciously acknowledge so in the moment of first seeing her.

BBM.. you got all this from a ghost written paperback, produced on the wave of Oscar's athletic prowess?? I don't know who the 'we' is, in that claim.

in actual fact, what 'we' do know of Oscar can be clearly seen in the pic of Reeva's shattered head.. and any more ' we' know of Oscar is clearly obvious from his time on the witness stand ,which is the only real view you , or I are ever likely to get.

unless one is a qualified psychoanalyst, the opinion that Oscar is 'overcome by sadness ' because he is 'no longer in the race' is as valid , probably less valid than reading his facial expressions from a TV set. One could get the same validity from a ju ju man in the backblocks of the Karoo desert who throws chicken entrails into the air, reads how they land and gives the same 'diagnosis' ..

 

[CriLondon]

I don't know if you noticed it, but Nel was ecstatic when OP said a) Reeva didn't scream, but then quickly changed that to b) he could not hear whether or not she screamed because his hearing was affected by the loud deafening gunshots. By saying that OP removed himself as a witness to whether or not Reeva screamed, OP cannot say. But the neighbors that say she did were not deafened, they heard her screams, and now OP cannot contradict their testimony, it stands.

And i'd say that , in legal terms and what the judge will have to consider in regards to ear-witness testimony , imo , is an utter disaster for OP.
This probably seals off the discussion of a few pages ago as to what ear-witness testimony the judge would have to reject.

 

[Trooper]

Oscar's 'biography' is nothing more than the usual pulp stuff sportspeople do when on a winning streak.. its not as if Oscar himself wrote it. These things are done by their publicity people, who give the ghost writers bucketfuls of bumf and reams of races , times etc, and then sit back and wait for the ghost writer to make some sort of sellable book out of it.

Oscar himself admitted he was no academic at school, so its hardly likely that Oscar sat down in a little cubby house,and laboured away, pen to paper, conjuring up earth shattering prose to astound the masses..

it isn't the Bible of Oscar ..

 

[Carmelita]

Approximately how long, and at what two points in time, was OP screaming like he had never screamed and cried before in his life? Am I to believe that it was the same timeframe that neighbors heard a man and a woman arguing, leading up to a woman's blood curdling screams and the sound of gunshots? And then all of the noise stopped. That was about 12-15 minutes of OP screaming. That was the timeframe of when he heard the noise to when he shot four times. After he shot he ran around the house screaming and crying, checking the curtains, getting his cricket bat, still screaming and crying, running back and forth to the bedroom and the bathroom, until he broke down the door, then he stopped screaming. I really do need to see his timeline to understand his story, because how can he shoot and then carry on with all of his yelling and screaming in a man and woman voice for ~ 15 minutes before he breaks down the door? I would add questions about how Reeva could still be breathing after all of that time, .

>snipped by me in order to further a more cordial discussion<

Again I can’t address your point as I don’t know what weight Judge Masipa will give to the ear-witnesses testimony and “breathing” is not necessarily part of the equation as has already been discussed in many previous posts. You may feel that someone needs to come up with a time frame based on the evidence that you personally accept as undeniable fact. The judge will decide what evidence is credible and undeniable along with her assessors with no help from any internet posters.

 

[Viper]

Snipped

He is a fighter, his first words in his autobiography are “The real loser is never the person who crosses the finish line last. The real loser is the person who does not even try to compete.”

IDK, but that seems awfully close to this famous quote by Theodore Roosevelt:

'It is better to have tried and failed than to never have tried at all.'

Oh, and these other two from Teddy are appropriate:

'To educate a person in the mind but not in morals is to educate a menace to society.'

'Knowing what's right doesn't mean much unless you do what's right.'

 

[Gryffindor]

Thank you I understand that sad is an emotion and overcome is a qualifier that is the crux of my posting about the difference between sad and overcome with sadness. There is a world of difference when it comes to the two statements.

“Overcome” can incorporate a myriad of other things in that it is a qualifier.

It could be as Cri believes that Oscar misspoke, personally I believe Oscar’s response upon seeing Reeva being put into words while in the box, being “overcome with sadness” is in keeping of what we know of Oscar’s personality. He is a fighter, his first words in his autobiography are “The real loser is never the person who crosses the finish line last. The real loser is the person who does not even try to compete.”

Looking at it from a psychological perspective Oscar was no longer in the race, there was nothing he could do, so he was “overcome with sadness” as I am sure subconsciously he knew Reeva had unsurvivable wounds even if didn’t consciously acknowledge so in the moment of first seeing her.

Have you discussed his autobiography's relevant content with anyone else here who has read it? Has anyone else read it here?

 

[TorisMom003]

And this alleged GAD that caused him to run around screaming (sometimes like a man/sometimes like a woman) for 15 minutes straight didn't evoke a single scream after he tore apart the door and found he blew his girlfriend's brains out (anxiety was suddenly nonexistent despite this horrific discovery?) because he "didn't know what the purpose would be" (huh?) and he was "overcome by sadness" (anxiety morphed into depression?).

Alrighty then.

Exactly. Isn't that when the blood curdling screams should have occurred? The door is open, he finally (allegedly) sees what he has done, and he doesn't scream at all? Reeva was supposedly his "beloved" yet there is nothing from him until witnesses arrive on scene? I guess he didn't have time to think about that, as he was to busy thinking about how he was going to "explain this away".

MOO

 

[Trooper]

IDK, but that seems awfully close to this famous quote by Theodore Roosevelt:

'It is better to have tried and failed than to never have tried at all.'

Oh, and these other two from Teddy are appropriate:

'To educate a person in the mind but not in morals is to educate a menace to society.'

'Knowing what's right doesn't mean much unless you do what's right.'

I can only imagine that Oscar wishes fervently that he had never tried to compete with the State of the Republic of South Africa in the matter of who is allowed to kill whom.