Kaine explains the car swap

[cluciano63]

That was a typo on my part...about baby being with Kaine that morning, I typed with him instead of with her...

 

[pinkpuddytat]

It makes sense that DY thought that TH had planned on being there for the entire science fair. Being a teacher it makes sense that her plan was to volunteer to help out since she had done that with numerous other activities at the school. I still have to wonder if that was the original plan and something happened at the fair to make TH snap and leave immediately or if she never planned on staying. Even if she made the decision at the science fair to take Kyron and do something to him that would still qualify as premediatation as that could occur in even a few minutes before an action. It doesn't have to planned for a long time, just planned ahead of time.

From what I've read about the school activities that morning, it didn't sound to me as if the parents were expected to stay for the whole science fair. My recollection is that there was a set-up period in the morning, with quite a few parents there, and then all the children (at least the younger ones) were to assemble in their homerooms, get into small groups, and be chaperoned around the whole science fair by teachers, teacher's aides, and possibly some volunteer parents. If the children were all supposed to be seated in their homerooms at 9:00 and then moving around the building in their assigned groups, what were the parents supposed to be doing at that time (especially while the children were in their homerooms)? I just can't picture a school planning the day so as to have most parents who were going to look at the science fair hanging around unattended for any period of time, while the children were assembled in their classrooms.

I was under the impression that the time parents were expected to view the science fair was in the early morning, before the normal school start time. This would make sense because most of the children have at least one parent that needs to be at work during the day. There was also a talent show scheduled for early afternoon, and I wonder if there was another time slot scheduled before or after that, when parents could view science fair projects. I think the upper grades' projects were being displayed in the gym, rather than in classrooms, and that would have been the "main event" of the science fair. The little kids' projects wouldn't be of much interest to anyone but their own parents and perhaps parents of their friends and classmates. I just can't see most parents of a 1st/2nd/3rd grader caring to spend more time at the science fair than half an hour or so in the morning. There's just not much to see at that level, and they'd certainly already seen every detail of their own child's project at home.

 

[pinkpuddytat]

As I recall, that afternoon Terri emailed Kyron's teacher asking what time the science projects needed to be picked up. I always wondered how she happened to drive the pickup that day. Looks to me like this points to premeditation.
IMO

I hadn't seen that report of the e-mailing before. Where did it come from? Does anyone have any more detail about it? Did the teacher respond?

If it weren't for one niggling little detail, that would sound to me like she originally thought they would need to be picked up by Friday afternoon, and then learned via e-mail that it was okay to leave them at school over the weekend. It would make sense that she'd take advantage of that option, since the plan was to go out for ice cream with Kyron and Kaine after school, and them drive him to visit his mother for the weekend -- already a packed schedule for the afternoon/evening, so putting off dealing with getting the project picked up and taken home would have been a perfectly rational choice.

The niggling little detail? If Terri was e-mailing a teacher during the school day to ask about picking up Kyron's science fair project, wouldn't the teacher's response have included an inquiry as to Kyron's whereabouts? Even if the teacher didn't see the e-mail until after classes ended for the day, you'd think a red light would have gone off in her head at that point, and *she* would have been the first person to alert someone that Kyron was missing.

 

[pinkpuddytat]

Right, so why didn't she pick him and the project up at the same time that day, normally at the end of the school day? Instead she lollygags to the bus stop. Doesn't add up.

This guy seems to be pretty unaware, overall really checked out, so it's weird that he's now all over the reader "questions." I don't get how some questions are ok to answer and some questions need to be skipped. His selection of what to answer/respond to is off. (Wonder if LE shuts him up tomorrow? Betcha Tony doesn't dig it.)

I think it's much more likely that LE and Kaine's attorney are pre-approving the answers that Kaine releases to media, and that this accounts for what you're perceiving as odd omissions.

 

[pinkpuddytat]

Do we know what Kyron was to do IN the talent show? I don't recall hearing but I've missed a lot in the past 2 weeks or so it seems.

She wouldn't take the project home if she were leaving at 9am, since others were still looking. If the plan were for him to come home on the bus, as the plan obviously were, most children don't bring projects that size on the bus (IME). Even so, if he were going to bring it home on the bus, why the need for the truck?

Ugh, I'm confusing myself at this point. But this isn't making any sense. I'd love to know what the plan was for other children and their projects - when were THEY to bring their projects home?

To confuse myself further, WHEN did the project get taken to school? That morning? Maybe Kaine was confused and meant to say she needed to the truck to *take* the project to school NOT to bring it home?

That was my first thought, and I still think it makes the most sense. If she had premeditated a plot to switch vehicles with the excuse of needing it to bring the project home, and was actually planning to use it to dispose of Kyron, she would have made a much bigger show of either going to the school to pick up the project and "discovering" Kyron was missing then, or of concocting and documenting some explanation for why that plan changed.

 

[SurfieTX]

I hadn't seen that report of the e-mailing before. Where did it come from? Does anyone have any more detail about it? Did the teacher respond?

If it weren't for one niggling little detail, that would sound to me like she originally thought they would need to be picked up by Friday afternoon, and then learned via e-mail that it was okay to leave them at school over the weekend. It would make sense that she'd take advantage of that option, since the plan was to go out for ice cream with Kyron and Kaine after school, and them drive him to visit his mother for the weekend -- already a packed schedule for the afternoon/evening, so putting off dealing with getting the project picked up and taken home would have been a perfectly rational choice.

The niggling little detail? If Terri was e-mailing a teacher during the school day to ask about picking up Kyron's science fair project, wouldn't the teacher's response have included an inquiry as to Kyron's whereabouts? Even if the teacher didn't see the e-mail until after classes ended for the day, you'd think a red light would have gone off in her head at that point, and *she* would have been the first person to alert someone that Kyron was missing.

The email rumor started in the comment section (by presumably a friend of TH's) in one of the local papers. It may or may not be true. The commenter also stated that since TH emailed the school, the teacher assumed Kyron was with her and no need to call to find out where he was. That further gets complicated because apparently TH brought some paperwork to school for the teacher to fill out the day before (on Thursday), for some kind of doctor's appointment. Therefore, that is supposedly another reason why no "red light" went off in her head...she assumed TH took Kyron to some kind of doctor's appt. This is ALL SPECULATION at this point. None of this has been confirmed by LE or the media.

 

[SurfieTX]

That was my first thought, and I still think it makes the most sense. If she had premeditated a plot to switch vehicles with the excuse of needing it to bring the project home, and was actually planning to use it to dispose of Kyron, she would have made a much bigger show of either going to the school to pick up the project and "discovering" Kyron was missing then, or of concocting and documenting some explanation for why that plan changed.

I posted this earlier in the thread - my theory:

Oh boy, do I believe she planned this now. TH told KH that she needed the truck to pick up the project. In order to CYA, she went home and emailed the teacher (IF that is true) about it knowing FULL WELL she never planned on picking it up or that it even needed picking up that day. The teacher more than likely said, "Monday is fine" or something to that effect. THIS WAY, she could justify using the truck and not picking up the project. Both bases covered.

BUT, a logical person would see it like we do...why have Kyron ride the bus home? Simply go and pick him up and while you are there drop in the classroom and pick up the project. There really is no need to email the teacher about it.

 

[pinkpuddytat]

I saw someone ask Kaine and Desiree about the talent show and if Kyron was going to be in it and I think they both said they never heard about it. I'll see if I can find a link.

Here it is.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_hormans_parents_reveal_n.html

This also leads me to think it was premeditated. Unless Kaine drove by the school and saw the billboard announcing the show he wouldn't have known or he might have expected TH to go. He might have been able to go to the end of it and help pick up the project at the time if he had known.

I don't read a whole lot into the talent show thing. Kyron strikes me as a somewhat geeky little boy who would be very much "into" a science fair project, but less than thrilled about a talent show. He's reported to have been a timid child, and I've never seen any reports suggesting he had any real interest in any performing skill (singing, musical instrument, etc.). It could well be that Terri had learned about the talent show, asked Kyron about it, and he'd said it's "stupid" and didn't want her to come. If he was just being herded onto stage for a few minutes with a bunch of other young kids to sing some "stupid" song picked out by a teacher (which seems likely to have been the extent of any planned participation by him in the talent show), it wouldn't have been anything he was proud of and eager to have a parental audience for. And if neither Kaine nor Desiree had even heard there was to be a talent show, that would pretty much confirm that Kyron was not chattering eagerly about it at either of their homes.

 

[balaney]

Iin regards to premeditation and using the truck - if she is as much of a CSI buff as we think she may be, she would know to cover her tracks and fingerprints. If premeditated, she could have stashed a bag of tricks to use such as gloves, rope, etc. I was thinking that because her son was camping, or going to camp, and Kyron was going on a boating weekend, she may have gathered up something canvas - a bag or something either from her parents at one time or purchased one in advance. She would have to stash the bag and goods someplace and grab them either before school or shortly after. Could be why the run to the island if the cell pings are accurate. I doubt she would have a box of items at home hidden away waiting for that day. If she did have items to use, shoes, gloves, rope, whatever, it is stashed someplace. Maybe why the white truck which has yet to be identified was seen in a rural area twice? I can not imagine she would be comfortable carrying a body very far unless it was encased - a duffel bag is perfect. She could have told him she was taking him early to his mother's and just had to get some extra stuff for him. Once she had the tools she could have done the dirty work right there and placed him in the bag for carrying to a different location to dispose of or took the kids and the bag and stuff to the next location and did it there. Either way, there would be "tools" she had to get rid of. I would like to think it would be impossible for her to look a child in the eyes and murder him. But if capable, she could have stranged him quickly, suffocated him, stuffed him in a heavy duty duffle bag with weights and disposed of his quickly in water. She would know enough from watching crime shows that it would be best to travel away from the shore to dispose of the bag.

 

[cluciano63]

I just can't accept a cold-blooded plan to murder a child. I also think that if Terri really wanted Kaine dead, he would be dead. Adults kill other adults all the time, sometimes they get caught, sometimes it is probably ruled accidental, suicide, or even natural.

I think Terri may have been unhappy if she felt Kaine was seeing another woman but I can't make this translate into plotting to kill, harm or otherwise erase Kyron from their lives.

 

[Justin Tyme]

2 kids, one of which is in a car seat and a science project in the back of a 'stang? I can see whe she needed the pick up.

Has this question been asked already? Had she already picked up the baby from the sitter before she went home. Was the car seat in the truck or the Mustang?

 

[ami]

Kaine said in a press conference that the baby was with TH that day.

 

[Justin Tyme]

she could always have said the baby was fussing and she decided to leave early. Since K said she had the baby with her.

This makes me think. What time did she leave the baby at the sitters and what time did she pick her up? If TH is responsible for Kyron's disappearance that this is most likely the time line they are looking into. That of course is depended on if he was in the school with her that morning.

 

[Justin Tyme]

The subject of Kyron's DR appointment. Was is a scheduled appointment? Was it a routine check-up or for something else? Was there really an appointment at all?

 

[Haeve]

This makes me think. What time did she leave the baby at the sitters and what time did she pick her up? If TH is responsible for Kyron's disappearance that this is most likely the time line they are looking into. That of course is depended on if he was in the school with her that morning.

Where in the MSM does it say that the baby was at the sitters? Kaine said the baby was with TH that day.

 

[cluciano63]

This thread is getting off topic...don't want it to be closed
Nothing has ever been confirmed about any babysitter
Nothing has ever been confirmed about whether or not an appointment existed, Kaine was not even very clear on that.

 

[supergirl]

I hadn't seen that report of the e-mailing before. Where did it come from? Does anyone have any more detail about it? Did the teacher respond?

If it weren't for one niggling little detail, that would sound to me like she originally thought they would need to be picked up by Friday afternoon, and then learned via e-mail that it was okay to leave them at school over the weekend. It would make sense that she'd take advantage of that option, since the plan was to go out for ice cream with Kyron and Kaine after school, and them drive him to visit his mother for the weekend -- already a packed schedule for the afternoon/evening, so putting off dealing with getting the project picked up and taken home would have been a perfectly rational choice.

The niggling little detail? If Terri was e-mailing a teacher during the school day to ask about picking up Kyron's science fair project, wouldn't the teacher's response have included an inquiry as to Kyron's whereabouts? Even if the teacher didn't see the e-mail until after classes ended for the day, you'd think a red light would have gone off in her head at that point, and *she* would have been the first person to alert someone that Kyron was missing.

If the plan was to go for ice cream and drop him at his Mom's for the weekend, was a bag packed and ready for him??? Anyone know??

 

[Justin Tyme]

Here's the quote and the link.

After reading that story I have questions about the seventh grader who said that he seen Kyron in the gym and the truck at the school. My question is: With all the children in the school and all of the cars in the lot...how does he pick out Kyron and the truck? Did he know him personally? Does he know the name of all of the children in the school and what their parents drive? If he doesn't know of Kyron personally why would he know these things? If he doesn't know Kyron personally then if I were LE I'd have a lot more questions for him.

 

[Justin Tyme]

This thread is getting off topic...don't want it to be closed
Nothing has ever been confirmed about any babysitter
Nothing has ever been confirmed about whether or not an appointment existed, Kaine was not even very clear on that.

Since it's not clear on those subjects I was trying to get clarification..if I'm in the wrong thread for this than can you KINDLY point me in the right direction. When someone poses a question or makes a statement that makes me think of other questions than I find it time consuming to jump off of the thread that lead me to ask a certain question to locate the proper thread to place it in without losing my field of thought at the moment. For this I apologize. Carry on!

 

[cluciano63]

Since it's not clear on those subjects I was trying to get clarification..if I'm in the wrong thread for this than can you KINDLY point me in the right direction. When someone poses a question or makes a statement that makes me think of other questions than I find it time consuming to jump off of the thread that lead me to ask a certain question to locate the proper thread to place it in without losing my field of thought at the moment. For this I apologize. Carry on!

I did not mean to direct this at you...just sometimes the moderators will get annoyed when we go off topic and I am guilty of it on this very thread. It happens all the time, as there are so many specific threads, it is hard to go find the one you want sometimes.

The business about the appointment came first thru a comment on a newspaper site, which is a rumor source, and then from a friend of Terri's, which although it was in a regular newspaper, can't really be taken as a given as it was just a quote from a friend who got her info from Terri, presumably. So no one really knows what is up with any appointment. But if such a thing happened, that Terri told a teacher at some point the day before or that day, about an appointment for Kyron, it can be theorized that this is why teacher was not surprised not to see Kyron in class, if she thought it was for that day.