Kaine tells us about Terri and PPD - what role does it play in this case, if any?

[Calliope]

Why didn't Desiree call Kaine? I suspect because he was running around trying to find Kyron or figure out what happened. But if Terri was standing in the office, I would think that before the school employee called DY, there would've been some discussion about whether she had been notified and who would place the call. I'm really trying to stay open minded, especially since we don't know the exact circumstances, but it does seem odd to me that DY had to call TH instead of the other way around.

IIRC, the police asked that one of them leave the school and return home.

 

[wondering1]

Maybe they were talking to police on scene and asked the secretary to call Desiree ?

could be. I was wondering whether TH/KH were "right there" near the secretary or just "there" somewhere at the school when DY got that call. Because if they were "right there" the secretary could have just put TH or KH on the phone she was using. Actually, I wondered why DY didn't just ask the secretary to do that since it's probably what I would have done,instead of hanging up and calling TH myself. Maybe DY did do that and was told they were in another part of the building or something.

 

[AbbieNormal]

OT, sorry...for all those that read and replied to me yesterday about my daughters transplant, she did not get it and was discharged back to home today.

Maybe soon. thanks from the bottom of my heart for the well wishes and prayers. Please keep the prayers up, she will get her turn soon.

abbie

 

[AbbieNormal]

OK back to my favorite distraction from RL- this board.

I am wondering WHY the murder for hire thing "didn't pan out", if it didn't.
Was it a he said/ she said?
His words against hers, come on shes already been proven to be a liar.
Looks bad for landscaper that he didn't report it when it happened. Real bad. Didn't even come forward to police AT ALL even after Kyron disappeared, they had to seek him out. Looks bad.
Could part of it be no money changed hands?

So is the MFH plot out the window now? And if it is, is that per LE or just our speculation or the words of DY and KH (who I believe, but I prefer to hear it from LE)

 

[seeking truth]

That's a good point, but since Kaine obviously knew, would they be obligated to call Desiree, as well? In the case of divorced parents, is there normally a stipulation for schools to notify the non-custodial parent in the event of an emergency? I've never been divorced, so I don't know. Would a school with such lax policies about calling home for absences follow such a rule? Yeah, I'm still fuming over that one. :furious:

Remember, Bessie, there is some concern that Terri left Kyron's teacher with the impression (and confusion) that she would be taking Kyron to the doctor the day he disappeared. So, though it's been stated that the school records show him as marked absent at 10:00a.m, in the school's mind,his teacher's mind, Kyron was with Terri.

I believe that the school was also blindsided.

Just my thoughts on this.

 

[Jamie1984]

OT, sorry...for all those that read and replied to me yesterday about my daughters transplant, she did not get it and was discharged back to home today.

Maybe soon. thanks from the bottom of my heart for the well wishes and prayers. Please keep the prayers up, she will get her turn soon.

abbie

Sorry for being OT, just wanted to say I am truly sorry for your DD and you, and will be saying a prayer for you both. Hang in there!

Jamie

 

[Calliope]

OT, sorry...for all those that read and replied to me yesterday about my daughters transplant, she did not get it and was discharged back to home today.

Maybe soon. thanks from the bottom of my heart for the well wishes and prayers. Please keep the prayers up, she will get her turn soon.

abbie

Absolutely hun. You both are in my prayers *hugs*

 

[MD MOMMY]

I keep thinking if my husband and I were divorced and my son wasn't at school. I would think my husband or his wife would call me to see if I took Kyron out of school etc. This didn't happen. Instead they matter of factly told DY he was missing. To me it seems like a step was missed. JMO.

 

[Jack]

Remember, Bessie, there is some concern that Terri left Kyron's teacher with the impression (and confusion) that she would be taking Kyron to the doctor the day he disappeared. So, though it's been stated that the school records show him as marked absent at 10:00a.m, in the school's mind,his teacher's mind, Kyron was with Terri.

I believe that the school was also blindsided.

Just my thoughts on this.

Wait a minute, the school did indeed mark him absent but where is the statement from the teacher she thought he was with TH? I thought I had heard that the teacher told a child to calm down about leaving for a tour of the science fair without Kyron because he was probably in the bathroom or something. Now I'm going to have to go find where I saw that and I really need to go to town and do some shopping...

 

[Donjeta]

Wait a minute, the school did indeed mark him absent but where is the statement from the teacher she thought he was with TH? I thought I had heard that the teacher told a child to calm down about leaving for a tour of the science fair without Kyron because he was probably in the bathroom or something. Now I'm going to have to go find where I saw that and I really need to go to town and do some shopping...

I don't think we've seen a statement straight from the teacher, it was Kyron's classmate TP who told this story. Terri's friend Jaymie Finster said there might have been some confusion about an appointment because the teacher was new and hard of hearing, according to Terri, she said.

 

[seeking truth]

Good question. In the Oregonian sit-down, DY says that the school called her. She also said she asked the person from the school if "they" were "there," and was told that they were. So DY hung up with the school and called TH. All of that seemed weird to me. The only thing I can think of is that the school is obligated to call the emergency contact directly. Otherwise, what if TH/KH (or whomever) didn't notify DY, even if they said they were going to.

Maybe the school secretary (along with others by this point) considered Terri suspicious? Especially if the teacher had been led to believe that Kyron was absent because Terri took him with her after they were at the science fair (early that morning).

So, the school secretary and/or others at the school had been called already by the bus driver, stating that Kyron wasn't on the bus, the parents were frantic, and the secretary is told by Kyron's teacher that Terri had already informed her that Kyron would be gone at an appt., after briefly visiting the science fair.

So secretary calls 911 (that seems to be the correct story at this point; not Terri or Kaine calling) and by the time she sees Terri, talks to Terri, this secretary takes it upon herself to call Desiree.

My thoughts on what may have happened.

 

[Pensfan]

This bothers me. The exact quote was " I thought: she better not have done anything to my son".

It implies to me that she had reason to believe Terri could have endangered her child. Something had to have happened prior to make her think this. So why, why, why did DY not try to get custody of Kyron, or get him away from Terri?
I know hindsight is 20/20....but still. And it just doesn't sound like hindsight- more like forethought.

I'm not bashing the parents, because we still don't know all the details.

Maybe DY did try, and that was the final straw for Terri.

MOO

ITA. Desiree knows something about Terri's character that made her suspicious that Terri was capable of harming Kyron. Read People of the Lie by Scott Peck, M.D.. This best-selling book is the psychiatrist author's experience in diagnosing and providing therapy to patients that appeared to manifest evil. The common thread between these patients was deception/lying.

 

[OneLostGrl]

She could have hidden the severity of the PPD. Some people can do that, even if they are clinically depressed. After six months, she could have acted more "normal" and he could have assumed she was doing a bit better. Maybe not 100% like before the baby was born but maybe after six months she was doing quite a bit better than she was in the first few weeks and months after K's birth.

IMO, a lot of women are so mad at themselves for having PPD, to any degree, that they do their best at hiding it and only make it worse on themselves and possibly their babies.

I'm curious as to what AD she was on. I don't care if she weaned or went cold turkey (the latter being a bad idea, but regardless..). I'm just curious as to what she was on. If it were a regular AD like Zoloft or something they give people with BPD (bipolar disorder), which certain BPD drugs are prescribed for PPD sometimes (in more severe cases)?

A lot of OBs handle women and their PPD, as do general practitioners. I think they could sometimes (easily) miss when this is a case of PTSD or PPP (postpartum psychosis - very rare, but possible). So, for no real reason other than I am nosy, I am curious to know who prescribed the medications to her as well. And WHO instructed Kaine to keep an eye on her? Was it just something he opted to do or? *scratching head*

A BIG OLE' MOO TO THIS ENTIRE POST OF MINE!

Often the family just becomes used to the behavior of the sufferer and it becomes the new normal.. they forget to an extent what the person was like before and assume they are ok when the rage and mood swings end and the not feeling (numb) or caring sets in. She/he is calm- so she/he is "getting better" is often how loved ones think.

mo

 

[txsvicki]

"it wasn't anything that was OVERLY violent in nature". This tells me that Terri did have some violence but wasn't overly violent. PPD is no excuse for a child going missing. Are women still thought of as so hystrionic that some violence is okay!

 

[Pensfan]

Often the family just becomes used to the behavior of the sufferer and it becomes the new normal.. they forget to an extent what the person was like before and assume they are ok when the rage and mood swings end and the not feeling (numb) or caring sets in. She/he is calm- so she/he is "getting better" is often how loved ones think.

mo

A family might become used to living with a depressed person, but if Terri was exhibiting symptoms of PPP or Major Depression with psychotic features, her husband, mom, Ky, and many others would never have assumed that she was ok. There is nothing normal about the warning signs of psychosis or psychotic behavior. Individuals may not know what word to label such spooky behavior, but they know it is very abnormal. Even toddlers and other nonhuman animals can recognize that psychotic behavior frightens them and is therefore, potentially dangerous.

Early symptoms
-disorganized speech, unable to communicate ideas effectively
-flat affect
-voices that only Terri could hear
-visions that only Terri could see
-paranoid, bizarre thoughts
-inability to focus or difficulty with completing the normal tasks of life
-change in sleep habits
-withdrawal


Psychotic symptoms
-very abnormal/inappropriate displays of emotion
-delusions
-hallucinations
-illusions
-mania
-depression and suicidal gestures and ideations
-extreme confusion
-fear and paranoia
-grossly disorganized behavior and speech, inability to complete everyday tasks
-loss of touch with reality
-depersonalization
-disrupted sleep patterns

Depression of any type is not a viable excuse for Terri. Fourteen million Americans had a serious depressive episode last year. Thirty five million Americans have suffered from depression in their lifetimes. These millions of Americans did not kill their child or stepchild. Terri's defense will have to prove that she was more than depressed (psychotic) if they intend to use a mental health problem as her defense.

 

[wondering1]

That's a good point, but since Kaine obviously knew, would they be obligated to call Desiree, as well? In the case of divorced parents, is there normally a stipulation for schools to notify the non-custodial parent in the event of an emergency? I've never been divorced, so I don't know. Would a school with such lax policies about calling home for absences follow such a rule? Yeah, I'm still fuming over that one. :furious:

Idk. I just watched a raw video clip of dy commenting on this to KGW. She was called at 4:25 by the school rep. (not sure if it's a secretary, so that's what I'll call her) if "they" were there, and the school said TH was. Apparently KH wasn't there at the time (presumably sent home by LE).

I don't know if it's policy to call both parents. I am divorced and I believe they only call us both if they can't immediately reach one of us at our contact number. It may be different in the case of a *missing* child. Each of my kids have failed to come home from the bus on one occasion. I personally called their dad to see if it was a mix up, but I think the school called him, too, even though they had already spoken with me.

 

[Calliope]

"it wasn't anything that was OVERLY violent in nature". This tells me that Terri did have some violence but wasn't overly violent. PPD is no excuse for a child going missing. Are women still thought of as so hystrionic that some violence is okay!

I thought he said overtly.

 

[Calliope]

I keep thinking if my husband and I were divorced and my son wasn't at school. I would think my husband or his wife would call me to see if I took Kyron out of school etc. This didn't happen. Instead they matter of factly told DY he was missing. To me it seems like a step was missed. JMO.

She lived 6 hours away.

 

[wondering1]

ITA. Desiree knows something about Terri's character that made her suspicious that Terri was capable of harming Kyron. Read People of the Lie by Scott Peck, M.D.. This best-selling book is the psychiatrist author's experience in diagnosing and providing therapy to patients that appeared to manifest evil. The common thread between these patients was deception/lying.

DY said her reaction was based on the substance of her conversation with TH TH gave her much detail about what SHE had done that morning wrt to Kyron at the school and DY was suspicious of that. She also said that TH's version of the morning didn't comport with her knowledge of the school. She may have had reservations about TH previously, but she didn't base her conclusion about TH's involvement in THIS situation solely on those reservations.

And, fwiw, women just can't waltz in to court these days and demand custody of their children. It's almost always equal custody unless the dad doesn't push for it, and less if the child has an established base (home, school, etc.) elsewhere. Judge's will preserve the status quo for the child if at all possible. Absent evidence of actual abuse, she had no chance of getting custody of Kyron. Although I think she could have gotten more parenting time if she'd moved closer. jmoo

 

[Calliope]

DY said her reaction was based on the substance of her conversation with TH TH gave her much detail about what SHE had done that morning wrt to Kyron at the school and DY was suspicious of that. She also said that TH's version of the morning didn't comport with her knowledge of the school. She may have had reservations about TH previously, but she didn't base her conclusion about TH's involvement in THIS situation solely on those reservations.

And, fwiw, women just can't waltz in to court these days and demand custody of their children. It's almost always equal custody unless the dad doesn't push for it, and less if the child has an established base (home, school, etc.) elsewhere. Judge's will preserve the status quo for the child if at all possible. Absent evidence of actual abuse, she had no chance of getting custody of Kyron. Although I think she could have gotten more parenting time if she'd moved closer. jmoo

I thought I had read somewhere on one of these threads that D & K didn't have an official (court-ordered) custody / visitation, that it was worked out between the two of them. That didn't make sense to me, because I thought that was part of any divorce order. Maybe it isn't...

Or was it that Desiree gave Kyron over to Kaine without an order (if so, does that mean she still has legal custody)? Does "shared custody" mean the parents get to decide where the kids live, when visitation occurs, etc?