Kaine tells us about Terri and PPD - what role does it play in this case, if any?

[Donjeta]

Medicines may influence the polygraph responses if they have an effect on the anxiety and stress levels or the physiological changes that it measures, such as blood pressure and heart rate.

Although the latest report is that she walked out before they even hooked her up...

 

[Donjeta]

It is illogical, but the feeling of guilty occurs because parents falsely believe they should be able to protect their children from anything and everything.

Sadly, most of us are not mind readers.

 

[mayelf]

I knew a woman who had a serious case of PPD. I wonder if I could get her to join to describe what it was like.

It was intense because she was trying to show us things that proved vampires existed. She was almost ready to give my partner, at the time, her house. She just wanted to take her husband and baby and go someplace but no one knew where. He just followed along to protect her and his child. I'm not sure how long they left their house, wandering the streets with the baby. I am not sure how much she still believes so I don't want to say too much or any of the details. But it was intense to watch and hear what she believed. She is incredibly intelligent.

Please if anyone reading knows who this lady is, please refrain from saying any details about the family. I don't wish any ill on them.

I don't know if that helps anyone with ideas about this case.

 

[Pensfan]

Sadly, most of us are not mind readers.

Mind reader??? There are hundreds of informative articles that address parental grief and their feelings of guilt.
http://extension.usu.edu/files/publications/publication/FL_244.pdf
http://www.athealth.com/consumer/disorders/parentalgrief.html
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...e:.edu&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari
http://helpguide.org/mental/grief_loss.htm

 

[Donjeta]

Yes, guilt that is often unnecessary because they're not mind readers and can't be expected to be able to predict everything. KH is getting some flack because he did not predict this and could not prevent it but it may be unreasonable to expect it IMO. Not everybody is a psychiatrist or a mind reader and able to know what goes on behind other people's facades.

Edit: I was agreeing with you, not disagreeing. Just goes to show that we're not mind readers I suppose...

 

[Pensfan]

I knew a woman who had a serious case of PPD. I wonder if I could get her to join to describe what it was like.

It was intense because she was trying to show us things that proved vampires existed. She was almost ready to give my partner, at the time, her house. She just wanted to take her husband and baby and go someplace but no one knew where. He just followed along to protect her and his child. I'm not sure how long they left their house, wandering the streets with the baby. I am not sure how much she still believes so I don't want to say too much or any of the details. But it was intense to watch and hear what she believed. She is incredibly intelligent.

Please if anyone reading knows who this lady is, please refrain from saying any details about the family. I don't wish any ill on them.

I don't know if that helps anyone with ideas about this case.

This symptoms fit more with Postpartum Psychosis (PPP) which is even more rare that PPD. (I hope your friend is now healthy. )

 

[Tuffy]

No way -- doesn't even sound like a marriage. My husband has a list of every medication/dosage/time taken, etc, along with the dr. name. Just in case I have to go to the hospital. This is especially important for those being treated for diabetes and an irregular heart beat. Ialso keep a copy in my wallet.

If she was on meds for over a year (or thereabouts), how does he NOT know? He never picked up a script? Someone suffering from PPD should always be monitored even to make sure the meds are being taken correctly.

Ughhh....

Mel

Sorry Mel, I just think you're expecting that if KH is not like your husband, then it doesn't even sound like a marriage! I have a bit of a different perspective.

My husband has picked up prescriptions for me, and he's a good husband. If I went and asked him what the name of my prescriptions are, he would probably say, "your blood pressure medicine" and "your thyroid medicine."

He doesn't know the actual names of them. Actually if I had to pronounce the name of my blood pressure medicine, I would probably fail. Not knowing these things doesn't say anything about his character or the quality of our marriage.

 

[Pensfan]

Yes, guilt that is often unnecessary because they're not mind readers and can't be expected to be able to predict everything.

Thanks for explaining.
Yeah...it is a very mentally stressful job to be a parent. (May God bless my mom whom I stressed out for several decades.)

 

[cluciano63]

Can a psychotic fake being "normal?" Can they speak normally and converse, i.e. while having raving mad thoughts at same time? There is so much about mental illness that is still unknown and each case seems to be different.

I have a mentally ill brother, who says that voices have been in his head for years, but they only remind me of his obsessions, i.e. how many times to scrub his hands, etc....but he says they repeat and repeat endlessly, yet he can carry on a conversation and you would not know he is going through that. Not that he carries on conversations with anyone outside a very few family members.

 

[butwhatif?]

K & D on the CBS Early Show.


They are not denying someone else maybe involved. In fact they are hoping someone else is because that would mean Kyron is being taken care of.

K - Were not having money problems.
K to the ? "Were either of you having an affair?" - K - Not that I am aware of.

D says her first thought when she got the phone call that Kyron went missing from Terri - You better not have done anything to my son.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6661870n&tag=related;photovideo

This bothers me. The exact quote was " I thought: she better not have done anything to my son".

It implies to me that she had reason to believe Terri could have endangered her child. Something had to have happened prior to make her think this. So why, why, why did DY not try to get custody of Kyron, or get him away from Terri?
I know hindsight is 20/20....but still. And it just doesn't sound like hindsight- more like forethought.

I'm not bashing the parents, because we still don't know all the details.

Maybe DY did try, and that was the final straw for Terri.

MOO

 

[CarmelEyesD]

IMO, Kaine made the comment about Terri’s PPD because he is grieving the loss of his child and blaming himself. During the process of grief, individuals can blame themselves for things that they did or didn’t do. Grieving people can feel guilty for not “somehow” preventing the death of a loved one even if it is illogical to do so. Kaine is searching for answers.Today he has grasped Terri’s depression and he is using it to “beat himself up.” He is thinking that he should have known Terri could kill Kyron. because she was treated for depression. This is just illogical. Terri was not psychotic in the days before Ky’s disappearance or on the day of June 4th. Kaine’s therapist and friends need to repeatedly reinforce to him that he is not responsible. Terri was rational and made her own very bad choices on that day.

I agree with this wholeheartedly-IF, in fact, Terri made those bad choices...IF this crime was not done by a pedophile or predator.

 

[Donjeta]

Can a psychotic fake being "normal?" Can they speak normally and converse, i.e. while having raving mad thoughts at same time? There is so much about mental illness that is still unknown and each case seems to be different.

I have a mentally ill brother, who says that voices have been in his head for years, but they only remind me of his obsessions, i.e. how many times to scrub his hands, etc....but he says they repeat and repeat endlessly, yet he can carry on a conversation and you would not know he is going through that. Not that he carries on conversations with anyone outside a very few family members.

Psychotic people come in various sizes and shapes too... Some may have their lucid moments and appear relatively normal in superficial conversation at least for a short time and some psychotic patients have long periods of remission when they're functional. But the thing with acute psychotic is that the reality checking failures and the problems in understanding their own illness may interfere with their concept of what is normal and what is a product of their illness so a severely psychotic patient wouldn't be likely to fake normal because he wouldn't understand the difference.

People who have auditory hallucinations, hear voices may learn to recognize them as the products of their own brain and learn to control and ignore them and it helps.

 

[butwhatif?]

^Indeed. Read this from your statement:
Patients suffering from puerperal psychosis are SEVERELY impaired, suffering from hallucinations and delusions.

TH was not severely impaired on June 4th. Her behavior was not considered to be abnormal. She talked with teachers, the principle, her husband, internet friends, the bus driver, and LE and no one saw any psychotic behavior. Her behavior was organized and rational.

There's no way to know if she did or didn't have hallucinations or delusions. Only Terri can answer that.
All we know is that her behaviour appeared normal that day.

Not saying she was delusional at the time, or that she had PPP- just thought it was interesting to see that there can be a peak at the 18 month point.

 

[eyes4crime]

You are correct in stating that we don't know if Terri was on meds June 4th.
It is sad that anyone is depressed, but in Terri's case, it doesn't provide her with an excuse to commit a homicide. Over NINE percent of the US population is depressed at any time. This equals 28 million people in the USA that are clinically depressed. Being depressed is clearly not an excuse for killing a child. Not being on antidepressants is also not an excuse for killing a child.

IMO, Kaine is experiencing grief and blaming himself. He has grasped on to the fact that 1 1/2 years ago, Terri was depressed. He is "beating himself up" with this thinking that somehow he could have prevented Ky's disappearance. Many people have illogical guilt while grieving. In his grieving, sleep-deprived state, Kaine's statement does not prove that Terri had severe depression (1 1/2 years ago). It does prove that Kaine is feeling guilty and this frequently happens to parents who have lost a child. It is illogical, but the feeling of guilty occurs because parents falsely believe they should be able to protect their children from anything and everything.

We will have to agree to disagree. I see no proof he is beating himself up from something that happened 1 1/2 year ago. Being told your wife has PPD and to watch her for six months certainly is not 'proof' but it does indicate, at least to me, that something was terribly wrong. moo mho

I have no doubt Kaine is grieving, my heart goes out to the parents. :heart: I simply can't imagine my child missing for even an hour. moo

As far as statistics go: a wise professor once told me - no matter how rare it is, if it happens to you it's 100%. moo

 

[Pensfan]

There's no way to know if she did or didn't have hallucinations or delusions. Only Terri can answer that.
All we know is that her behaviour appeared normal that day.

Not saying she was delusional at the time, or that she had PPP- just thought it was interesting to see that there can be a peak at the 18 month point.

(Joking with you) So......what is going to be the excuse for Terri trying to hire a hit man at 12 months postpartum (where there is no documented, teeny tiny incidence increase)?

 

[Mylou]

There is absolutely NO evidence that Kaine wasn't supportive and involved when Terri supposedly had PPD....NONE! So, he doesn't recall the name of whatever pill she was given or when she stopped taking it. What?? She's not a child! IF Terri had anything to do with Kyron disappearing, she is responsible for that....not Kaine, not Desiree, not the landscaper. IF Terri is innocent and not involved, then whomever took Kyron is responsible for it. Why does everyone else have to be dragged into something done by somebody else. Makes no sense to me.

Doesn't a person who has PPD, or PPP, or any of the others after a baby is born, put the children at risk ?
I think there is enough information out there that some tragic stuff can occur.
I would expect anyone concerned with their children's well being would take a more active role in monitoring someone who is diagnosed with something like that, especially because their children could be endangered. Not to mention caring about their wife also.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

Doesn't a person who has PPD, or PPP, or any of the others after a baby is born, put the children at risk ?
I think there is enough information out there that some tragic stuff can occur.
I would expect anyone concerned with their children's well being would take a more active role in monitoring someone who is diagnosed with something like that, especially because their children could be endangered. Not to mention caring about their wife also.

There are varying degrees of PPD. Medical professionals only consider you a danger to yourself or your child if you are having suicidal or homicidal thoughts. Otherwise, the family of the mother is advised what to watch for and should call immediately if they notice a decline in the mother.

I myself suffered PPP after the birth of my daughter. I won't get into it here, but if anyone has questions I'd be happy to answer them.

 

[mayelf]

This symptoms fit more with Postpartum Psychosis (PPP) which is even more rare that PPD. (I hope your friend is now healthy. )

From what I know about this person I used to know, (not Terri) the doctors diagnosed it as PPD, but yes it seems to fit PPP. I talked to my ex partner today about her to see how things were and she is doing great.

It's wild how extreme a persons mind can be and how they can completely seem to think normally and be in the norm when they aren't.

As far as I know, it was just a sudden thing. She all of a sudden had this story out of the blue and had 'evidence' that she showed her husband and my partner (now ex). It was extremely hard NOT to believe her because it seemed real from her perspective.

 

[butwhatif?]

(Joking with you) So......what is going to be the excuse for Terri trying to hire a hit man at 12 months postpartum (where there is no documented, teeny tiny incidence increase)?

LOL- right back a ya.... 12 month excuse : He didn't pick up her meds from the pharmacy for her, 'cause he forgot what they were called?

 

[Haeve]

FWIW, I was chatting with a friend today, and she mentioned starting antidepressants. I asked her which one. She couldn't remember what it was called. Her own medication! Personally I think they all have Xs and Zs in their names and so they all sound the same.