Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 2

[Friday Fan]

protective orders aren't in effect in courthouses because victims often have to testify in court cases against their assailant JMO

They also aren't in effect in jail either!

KY is the second highest tobacco producing state. That said, most public buildings prohibit smoking, so he was likely sneaking.

 

[jlo6161a]

What I also noticed is around the the 14:52:28 second mark, what appears to be a phone on the desk lights up. I don't know whose phone it is. It's closer to where Stines would have been sitting.

It has to be the judge's phone. Stines' phone was found on his person. This is when he takes the final shots and leaves.

 

[Friday Fan]

It has to be the judge's phone. Stines' phone was found on his person. This is when he takes the final shots and leaves.

Thank you!

There also was something that appeared to be a phone next to the judge's laptop. Underneath his cigarette hand. I could not tell if was a phone or not. It appears to have a brownish case if it is a phone. There also appears to be a landline closest to the window. The cord gets caught when the judge falls and the landline tumbles down to the ground. Anyway if the judge has landline and a brown cell phone, would he need another phone? What if the black phone was Stine's and he went back in and retrieved it? (Video doesn't show it) Sorry for the poor quality:

 

[jlo6161a]

Thank you!

There also was something that appeared to be a phone next to the judge's laptop. Underneath his cigarette hand. I could not tell if was a phone or not. It appears to have a brownish case if it is a phone.

View attachment 535819View attachment 535823

I would guess it's the carton for the cigarettes.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Interesting. Can OP cite a case in the last 10-20 years where this happened? Thanks.

I am not OP but here is a thorough article on the topic: Jury Nullification in the United States. Examples are included. It is published in the Oxford Academic (2015), Oxford University Press.

 

[Florida_marlin]

Interesting. Can OP cite a case in the last 10-20 years where this happened? Thanks.

Philip Picone-Texas. Law is absurd and jury said naw, won’t convict.
Taiwanda Moore a few years ago acquitted of recording cops even though she did it. Jury was appalled at government overreach.
Melroy Court, a wheelchair bound man, acquitted of firearms charges because the jury thought the application of the law in his case was ridiculous.

Most case of JN these days are confined to controversial laws (like drug possession laws), government overreach, clear prosecutorial bias.

From HuffPost quoting NYT article
“In Montana last year, a group of five prospective jurors said they had a problem with someone receiving a felony for a small amount of marijuana. The prosecutors were freaked out about the "Mutiny in Montana" and were afraid they were not going to be able convince 12 jurors in Montana to convict. The judge said, in a major New York Times article, "I've never seen this large a number of people express this large a number of reservations" and "it does raise a question about the next case."

I believe it would be much harder to get to JN for crimes that most everyone agrees are crimes and are serious, like murder. In the first place, most reasonable people would agree we are not supposed to kill each other.

This case in particular? Yea, I’ve read some of the rumors and I’ve seen some of the “responses”, ie, I’d do the same thing, etc, etc. I am not going to assume the worst rumors in this case are true until there is evidence to support. I do not support victim bashing in any fashion.

However, if I were to put forward a hypothetical. Assume a family member of a shooter had been the victim of a heinous crime by a deceased, and said shooter decided to take the law into own hands and executed the deceased on his own judgement. If the supposed preexisting crime came out to be true, would there be a juror who ended up on the jury and would say, I won’t convict because I believe this shooter was justified? Maybe one. Maybe a few. They would have to survive voie dire and not get booted by strikes or the judge. The odds all 12 would vote to outright acquit with the execution on tape? Highly unlikely, in my opinion. The possibility one or more jurors could hang the jury? Possible, in my opinion. But again, they would have to survive voie dire, which I believe the prosecution and judge would be loaded for bear to suss that out ahead of time.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Philip Picone-Texas. Law is absurd and jury said naw, won’t convict.
Taiwanda Moore a few years ago acquitted of recording cops even though she did it. Jury was appalled at government overreach.
Melroy Court, a wheelchair bound man, acquitted of firearms charges because the jury thought the application of the law in his case was ridiculous.

Most case of JN these days are confined to controversial laws (like drug possession laws), government overreach, clear prosecutorial bias.

From HuffPost quoting NYT article
“In Montana last year, a group of five prospective jurors said they had a problem with someone receiving a felony for a small amount of marijuana. The prosecutors were freaked out about the "Mutiny in Montana" and were afraid they were not going to be able convince 12 jurors in Montana to convict. The judge said, in a major New York Times article, "I've never seen this large a number of people express this large a number of reservations" and "it does raise a question about the next case."

I believe it would be much harder to get to JN for crimes that most everyone agrees are crimes and are serious, like murder. In the first place, most reasonable people would agree we are not supposed to kill each other.

This case in particular? Yea, I’ve read some of the rumors and I’ve seen some of the “responses”, ie, I’d do the same thing, etc, etc. I am not going to assume the worst rumors in this case are true until there is evidence to support. I do not support victim bashing in any fashion.

However, if I were to put forward a hypothetical. Assume a family member of a shooter had been the victim of a heinous crime by a deceased, and said shooter decided to take the law into own hands and executed the deceased on his own judgement. If the supposed preexisting crime came out to be true, would there be a juror who ended up on the jury and would say, I won’t convict because I believe this shooter was justified? Maybe one. Maybe a few. They would have to survive voie dire and not get booted by strikes or the judge. The odds all 12 would vote to outright acquit with the execution on tape? Highly unlikely, in my opinion. The possibility one or more jurors could hang the jury? Possible, in my opinion. But again, they would have to survive voie dire, which I believe the prosecution and judge would be loaded for bear to suss that out ahead of time.

The article that I posted includes JN for murder, I believe.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Philip Picone-Texas. Law is absurd and jury said naw, won’t convict.
Taiwanda Moore a few years ago acquitted of recording cops even though she did it. Jury was appalled at government overreach.
Melroy Court, a wheelchair bound man, acquitted of firearms charges because the jury thought the application of the law in his case was ridiculous.

Most case of JN these days are confined to controversial laws (like drug possession laws), government overreach, clear prosecutorial bias.

From HuffPost quoting NYT article
“In Montana last year, a group of five prospective jurors said they had a problem with someone receiving a felony for a small amount of marijuana. The prosecutors were freaked out about the "Mutiny in Montana" and were afraid they were not going to be able convince 12 jurors in Montana to convict. The judge said, in a major New York Times article, "I've never seen this large a number of people express this large a number of reservations" and "it does raise a question about the next case."

I believe it would be much harder to get to JN for crimes that most everyone agrees are crimes and are serious, like murder. In the first place, most reasonable people would agree we are not supposed to kill each other.

This case in particular? Yea, I’ve read some of the rumors and I’ve seen some of the “responses”, ie, I’d do the same thing, etc, etc. I am not going to assume the worst rumors in this case are true until there is evidence to support. I do not support victim bashing in any fashion.

However, if I were to put forward a hypothetical. Assume a family member of a shooter had been the victim of a heinous crime by a deceased, and said shooter decided to take the law into own hands and executed the deceased on his own judgement. If the supposed preexisting crime came out to be true, would there be a juror who ended up on the jury and would say, I won’t convict because I believe this shooter was justified? Maybe one. Maybe a few. They would have to survive voie dire and not get booted by strikes or the judge. The odds all 12 would vote to outright acquit with the execution on tape? Highly unlikely, in my opinion. The possibility one or more jurors could hang the jury? Possible, in my opinion. But again, they would have to survive voie dire, which I believe the prosecution and judge would be loaded for bear to suss that out ahead of time.

I think it depends on several factors, not the least of which is the nature of the hypothetical heinous crime. amoo

 

[MollyDDD]

Longer video of shooting here. Shows where judge's hands are likely first raised until Stines leaves the room.

Omg, that poor man! What a way to go. It’s so upsetting to watch how Stine methodically shot him to death, and even made sure he was dead.
Honestly, how can anyone justify his actions? IMO

 

[al66pine]

Blue Sign. Any Relevance?

Longer video of shooting here.....

sbm @Friday Fan Thanks for posting link to the longer vid of shooting.

I noticed the blue SIGN sitting on floor btwn desk & window. It says "Matt Butler" * plus more text that I can't read. At ~16 sec, more of sign is visible.

Can anyone decipher the rest of the sign? Maybe a campaign sign, for previous or future election? Or _______?

Any possible relevance to background or motive of Stine's shooting?

__________________________
* "...Letcher County Commonwealth's Attorney Matt Butler recused himself from the case due to familial ties. Butler and Mullins were once brothers-in-law." *
^ Kentucky sheriff remains behind bars after judge's death as details emerge Sept 25 story notes MATT

 

[worm]

Omg, that poor man! What a way to go. It’s so upsetting to watch how Stine methodically shot him to death, and even made sure he was dead.
Honestly, how can anyone justify his actions? IMO

I don’t see how it could be justified either. At one point the judge turns around almost and Stines fires away.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Blue Sign. Any Relevance?

sbm @Friday Fan Thanks for posting link to the longer vid of shooting.

I noticed the blue SIGN sitting on floor btwn desk & window. It says "Matt Butler" * plus more text that I can't read. At ~16 sec, more of sign is visible.

Can anyone decipher the rest of the sign? Maybe a campaign sign, for previous or future election? Or _______?

Any possible relevance to background or motive of Stine's shooting?

__________________________
* "...Letcher County Commonwealth's Attorney Matt Butler recused himself from the case due to familial ties. Butler and Mullins were once brothers-in-law." *
^ Kentucky sheriff remains behind bars after judge's death as details emerge Sept 25 story notes MATT

Wow!

 

[ilovewings]

Q

Omg, that poor man! What a way to go. It’s so upsetting to watch how Stine methodically shot him to death, and even made sure he was dead.
Honestly, how can anyone justify his actions? IMO

That video made my jaw drop! It was so upsetting. What kind of person does that? not just one shot- but methodical execution with several shots standing over the victim! There is no justification for this IMO. It is as cold-blooded a murder as I have ever seen on video)---

 

[Elley Mae]

Thank you!

There also was something that appeared to be a phone next to the judge's laptop. Underneath his cigarette hand. I could not tell if was a phone or not. It appears to have a brownish case if it is a phone. There also appears to be a landline closest to the window. The cord gets caught when the judge falls and the landline tumbles down to the ground. Anyway if the judge has landline and a brown cell phone, would he need another phone? What if the black phone was Stine's and he went back in and retrieved it? (Video doesn't show it) Sorry for the poor quality:

View attachment 535819View attachment 535823

. Looks like an open pack of cigarettes, flip top is open. Probably marlboro.

Jmo

 

[Elley Mae]

Blue Sign. Any Relevance?

sbm @Friday Fan Thanks for posting link to the longer vid of shooting.

I noticed the blue SIGN sitting on floor btwn desk & window. It says "Matt Butler" * plus more text that I can't read. At ~16 sec, more of sign is visible.

Can anyone decipher the rest of the sign? Maybe a campaign sign, for previous or future election? Or _______?

Any possible relevance to background or motive of Stine's shooting?

__________________________
* "...Letcher County Commonwealth's Attorney Matt Butler recused himself from the case due to familial ties. Butler and Mullins were once brothers-in-law." *
^ Kentucky sheriff remains behind bars after judge's death as details emerge Sept 25 story notes MATT

Campaign sign.

Letcher County Commonwealth's Attorney Matt Butler said he will recuse himself from the case because of his "close personal relationship" with Mullins, and his "close professional relationship" with Stines, according to a video shared on Facebook.

Butler said his entire staff would also be recused because one of his staff members was in the district court suite at the time of the shooting, and would "likely" be a witness in the case.

The latest: Kentucky sheriff faces murder charge over courthouse killing of judge

The district judge was fatally shot after an argument broke out inside the courthouse, police say.

www.usatoday.com

 

[Elley Mae]

Matt butler

Butler appointed to replace Edison G. Banks II - The Mountain Eagle

Gov. Andy Beshear has appointed Matt Butler as the new 47th District Commonwealth’s Attorney, after Edison G. Banks II retired effective July 1. Butler is the Democratic candidate for the office and will fill the position at least until the election this November. Beshear made the appointment...

www.themountaineagle.com

 

[Elley Mae]

This needs updating.

Letcher County

www.letchercounty.ky.gov

 

[Seattle1]

I noticed the blue SIGN sitting on floor btwn desk & window. It says "Matt Butler" * plus more text that I can't read. At ~16 sec, more of sign is visible.

Can anyone decipher the rest of the sign? Maybe a campaign sign, for previous or future election? Or _______?

Butler had been appointed Commonwealth Attorney in July when the former attorney, Edison Banks II, who had been on extended sick leave for more than a year, retired, effective July 1.
Butler, however, would have to run for the position for the full term, on the November ballot so it follows that there would be a candidate Butler sign in Mullins office.

Also, after the shooting, Butler reported that he and Mullins were former brothers in law who had been married to two sisters, and their children who were cousins, were more like siblings.

Butler appointed to replace Edison G. Banks II - The Mountain Eagle

Gov. Andy Beshear has appointed Matt Butler as the new 47th District Commonwealth’s Attorney, after Edison G. Banks II retired effective July 1. Butler is the Democratic candidate for the office and will fill the position at least until the election this November. Beshear made the appointment...

www.themountaineagle.com

 

[fsngruv]

Like many others, I've been curious about the relationship between the judge and sheriff and how it has to do with the judge being shot, then the discovery of the daughters phone number stored on his phone, and how that plays in...

From the beginning I've wondered if the sheriff wasn't involved in a larger more criminal conspiracy and the information asked during his deposition probably fueled the fear that he might be charged criminally or be involved in a felony investigation, after all, afaik, witnesses are privy to the questions asked in a deposition well before the actual deposition.

Perhaps the sheriff thought his connection to the judge, a felony probable cause judge, might spare him in a probable cause hearing, if the sheriff was paranoid about one pending? Perhaps the sheriff went to meet with him over this matter, and the judge told him he wouldn't involve himself in the matter, no matter what conspiracy the sheriff had gotten himself into (no matter if involved other nefarious characters who may have threatened to kidnap the sheriff's wife and kid) and perhaps the sheriff went as a last ditch effort to convince the judge otherwise? Maybe the sheriff used his daughter as clout, perhaps she was called because the sheriff was trying to prove to the judge that his wife and kid were in danger? Perhaps the judge has literally nothing to do with the daughter or with any of the other criminal activity surrounding the sheriff and the sheriff thought his friendship with the judge would keep him "untouchable" in the legal and criminal world. I could imagine a guy like him saying, "what are they gonna do? I'm sheriff! I'm best friends with the judge!"

Anyway, all my thoughts and conjuncture of possible theory until we know more. I'm all perhaps'd out!

I like, many can't get over the statement, "the daughters phone number was saved in the judges phone" maybe he was her Godfather? I don't know, but it is odd that detail is added and of course leads to many questions and suspicion about the judge and why the number was saved and why that information has even been stated the way it was!

 

[PrairieWind]

Like many others, I've been curious about the relationship between the judge and sheriff and how it has to do with the judge being shot, then the discovery of the daughters phone number stored on his phone, and how that plays in...

From the beginning I've wondered if the sheriff wasn't involved in a larger more criminal conspiracy and the information asked during his deposition probably fueled the fear that he might be charged criminally or be involved in a felony investigation, after all, afaik, witnesses are privy to the questions asked in a deposition well before the actual deposition.

Perhaps the sheriff thought his connection to the judge, a felony probable cause judge, might spare him in a probable cause hearing, if the sheriff was paranoid about one pending? Perhaps the sheriff went to meet with him over this matter, and the judge told him he wouldn't involve himself in the matter, no matter what conspiracy the sheriff had gotten himself into (no matter if involved other nefarious characters who may have threatened to kidnap the sheriff's wife and kid) and perhaps the sheriff went as a last ditch effort to convince the judge otherwise? Maybe the sheriff used his daughter as clout, perhaps she was called because the sheriff was trying to prove to the judge that his wife and kid were in danger? Perhaps the judge has literally nothing to do with the daughter or with any of the other criminal activity surrounding the sheriff and the sheriff thought his friendship with the judge would keep him "untouchable" in the legal and criminal world. I could imagine a guy like him saying, "what are they gonna do? I'm sheriff! I'm best friends with the judge!"

Anyway, all my thoughts and conjuncture of possible theory until we know more. I'm all perhaps'd out!

I like, many can't get over the statement, "the daughters phone number was saved in the judges phone" maybe he was her Godfather? I don't know, but it is odd that detail is added and of course leads to many questions and suspicion about the judge and why the number was saved and why that information has even been stated the way it was!

First, the lawsuit that had the Sheriff deposed a civil case, not criminal. And it is in Federal Court. So Mullins really had nothing to do with that. And no, witnesses are not generally privy to questions to asked them in a deposition. I don't know why you would have thought that.
Personally, I don't think that this killing had anything to do with the lawsuit regarding the deputy's actions.